3.2 in roadmap?

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3.2 in roadmap?

Benny Malengier
Brian,

with the aim for 3.1 in March, there start to be things that will have to be postponed to 3.2, future trunk.
Is it possible to already make an entry for that in the bug tracker to add tickets to it?

Further, there are some core things I would like to see happen after 3.1, one being http://www.gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=2563
Perhaps remove of make and transfer to python-setuptools can be another as nobody of the developers knows the present make system (it was made by a collegue of Richard Taylor I believe).
If these larger cleanups/rewrites are not done from time to time by all developers we will end up with only border case polish in GRAMPS and bolting one thing upon the other.
And what about python 3.0 support.... March will be here quicker than we think, and knowing what large things we want to achieve after 3.1 helps to focus. Further, these larger issues should be supported by more than 1 developer.
Should we make some extra feature request and then vote/discuss them somehow? I made some:

http://www.gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=2620 Python 3.0 support
http://www.gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=2621 use python-setuptools instead of make
http://www.gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=2563  Add change-active signals for page views
http://www.gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=2622 File Organization (GEPS 008)
http://www.gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=2623 Import Export Merge (GEPS 009)

If other now some important goals GRAMPS can work to that merit to be in 3.2, let us know.


Some other thing that you might consider: freeze of trunk somewhere in february without the creation of a new trunk yet. I see many projects doing that for some weeks as a way to indicate everybody should work on bug fixes in the trunk before starting new features in the new trunk.

Benny

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Re: 3.2 in roadmap?

Gary Burton
>Some other thing that you might consider: freeze of trunk somewhere in february without the creation
>of a new trunk yet. I see many projects doing that for some weeks as a way to indicate everybody
>should work on bug fixes in the trunk before starting new features in the new trunk.

I don't think we should freeze trunk or create a new one - rather we should create a new branch for 3.1 (gramps31) from trunk for bug fixing work. Then when it is stable we tag it as 3.1.0 and release from that.

Trunk should always remain open. A branch is where the code remains fixed and stabilised.

Bye

Gary



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Re: 3.2 in roadmap?

Benny Malengier


2009/1/20 Gary Burton <[hidden email]>
>Some other thing that you might consider: freeze of trunk somewhere in february without the creation
>of a new trunk yet. I see many projects doing that for some weeks as a way to indicate everybody
>should work on bug fixes in the trunk before starting new features in the new trunk.

I don't think we should freeze trunk or create a new one - rather we should create a new branch for 3.1 (gramps31) from trunk for bug fixing work. Then when it is stable we tag it as 3.1.0 and release from that.

Trunk should always remain open. A branch is where the code remains fixed and stabilised.

The way some projects do it is that they tag alpha, beta, then a first release candidate from trunk, so trunk remains the code that will become 3.1.0. Like that people are forced a bit to work further on the release candidate.
Then when the second/third release candidate is made, gramps31 is made from trunk, and trunk is open for future 3.2
So it just comes down to doing the split of the branch not too early.

Benny


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Re: 3.2 in roadmap?

Gary Burton
>The way some projects do it is that they tag alpha, beta, then a first release candidate from trunk, so
>trunk remains the code that will become 3.1.0. Like that people are forced a bit to work further on
>the release candidate.
>Then when the second/third release candidate is made, gramps31 is made from trunk, and trunk is
>open for future 3.2
>So it just comes down to doing the split of the branch not too early.

I always assume that the decision point when to split off a branch is determined when the code for the next release becomes feature complete in trunk and this usually happens when it's time for a beta release. Bug fixing carries on for as long as necessary in the branch whilst tagging occasional release candidates. If a release candidate appears stable enough then it's also tagged as the first release.

That's how I've always worked - never release from trunk and so trunk is only frozen for the time it takes to split a branch. :)

Bye

Gary


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Re: 3.2 in roadmap?

Brian Matherly
Gary,

> >The way some projects do it is that they tag alpha,
> beta, then a first release candidate from trunk, so
> >trunk remains the code that will become 3.1.0. Like
> that people are forced a bit to work further on
> >the release candidate.
>
> >Then when the second/third release candidate is made,
> gramps31 is made from trunk, and trunk is
> >open for future 3.2
> >So it just comes down to doing the split of the branch
> not too early.
>
> I always assume that the decision point when to split off a
> branch is determined when the code for the next release
> becomes feature complete in trunk and this usually happens
> when it's time for a beta release. Bug fixing carries on
> for as long as necessary in the branch whilst tagging
> occasional release candidates. If a release candidate
> appears stable enough then it's also tagged as the first
> release.

You are right. This is the process we used for 3.0 and it worked great. I recommend that we do it this way for 3.1. when all the features are complete in trunk, we tag the 3.1 maintenance branch. We should probably do this by mid-February so that we have time to fix bugs.

> That's how I've always worked - never release from
> trunk and so trunk is only frozen for the time it takes to
> split a branch. :)

Since commits are atomic in Subversion, this is instantaneous :)

~Brian

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GRAMPS Website

Jason Simanek-2
In reply to this post by Gary Burton
Hello,

I've got a suggestion.

GRAMPS is great software. It's also software that now runs on Linux as
well as Windows and Mac OSX. Over the last year and a half I have had
many conversations about genealogy and the subject of what software I
use always comes up.

When it comes to genealogical research people are interested in choosing
an application that will not only be around for a while, but is also an
excellent product that implements the best methods possible. With Gramps
being open source, freely available to anyone and in steady development,
it's got a lot going for it. This is a seriously valuable tool for
society. That's the way I see it.

HOWEVER, as nice and chock-full of information as the current
Wikimedia-based website is, it's anything but friendly and inviting to
anyone that isn't a nerd (no offense!).

I propose keeping the current Wikimedia-based site as our
everything-but-the-kitchen-sink 'WIKI' while having another very simple
site that is the 'FACE' of Gramps. I would whole-heartedly build this
for GRAMPS. Because I want to recommend this application to other people
without having to download and install it for them.

Examples:

Audacity (ugly, but simple and clear)
http://audacity.sourceforge.net/

Handbrake
http://handbrake.fr/

Gimp
http://www.gimp.org/

Pidgin
http://www.pidgin.im/


Some salesmanship. So, whaddya think?

-Jason Simanek


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Re: GRAMPS Website

Benny Malengier
The present website is there for simplicity, nobody of the devels has time to maintain another sort of website.
It would be great I think if you take something like this upon you.

Some comments:
1/ try to scrape the news from the wiki news. It would be annoying to have to maintain news at two places
2/ it should be a front only, all the rest remains the wiki. Let's not create overhead nobody can maintain
3/ you should discuss with Nick Wallingford what is possible at the hosting company

So I am for, how about the other devels?

Benny

2009/1/20 Jason Simanek <[hidden email]>
Hello,

I've got a suggestion.

GRAMPS is great software. It's also software that now runs on Linux as
well as Windows and Mac OSX. Over the last year and a half I have had
many conversations about genealogy and the subject of what software I
use always comes up.

When it comes to genealogical research people are interested in choosing
an application that will not only be around for a while, but is also an
excellent product that implements the best methods possible. With Gramps
being open source, freely available to anyone and in steady development,
it's got a lot going for it. This is a seriously valuable tool for
society. That's the way I see it.

HOWEVER, as nice and chock-full of information as the current
Wikimedia-based website is, it's anything but friendly and inviting to
anyone that isn't a nerd (no offense!).

I propose keeping the current Wikimedia-based site as our
everything-but-the-kitchen-sink 'WIKI' while having another very simple
site that is the 'FACE' of Gramps. I would whole-heartedly build this
for GRAMPS. Because I want to recommend this application to other people
without having to download and install it for them.

Examples:

Audacity (ugly, but simple and clear)
http://audacity.sourceforge.net/

Handbrake
http://handbrake.fr/

Gimp
http://www.gimp.org/

Pidgin
http://www.pidgin.im/


Some salesmanship. So, whaddya think?

-Jason Simanek


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Re: GRAMPS Website

Stéphane Charette-2
I am "for" as well.  I always thought some type of "Download Now!"
type of front page should be much more obvious for new users not
familiar with our web site.

Stéphane


On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 08:33, Benny Malengier
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> The present website is there for simplicity, nobody of the devels has time
> to maintain another sort of website.
> It would be great I think if you take something like this upon you.
>
> Some comments:
> 1/ try to scrape the news from the wiki news. It would be annoying to have
> to maintain news at two places
> 2/ it should be a front only, all the rest remains the wiki. Let's not
> create overhead nobody can maintain
> 3/ you should discuss with Nick Wallingford what is possible at the hosting
> company
>
> So I am for, how about the other devels?
>
> Benny
>
> 2009/1/20 Jason Simanek <[hidden email]>
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I've got a suggestion.
>>
>> GRAMPS is great software. It's also software that now runs on Linux as
>> well as Windows and Mac OSX. Over the last year and a half I have had
>> many conversations about genealogy and the subject of what software I
>> use always comes up.
>>
>> When it comes to genealogical research people are interested in choosing
>> an application that will not only be around for a while, but is also an
>> excellent product that implements the best methods possible. With Gramps
>> being open source, freely available to anyone and in steady development,
>> it's got a lot going for it. This is a seriously valuable tool for
>> society. That's the way I see it.
>>
>> HOWEVER, as nice and chock-full of information as the current
>> Wikimedia-based website is, it's anything but friendly and inviting to
>> anyone that isn't a nerd (no offense!).
>>
>> I propose keeping the current Wikimedia-based site as our
>> everything-but-the-kitchen-sink 'WIKI' while having another very simple
>> site that is the 'FACE' of Gramps. I would whole-heartedly build this
>> for GRAMPS. Because I want to recommend this application to other people
>> without having to download and install it for them.
>>
>> Examples:
>>
>> Audacity (ugly, but simple and clear)
>> http://audacity.sourceforge.net/
>>
>> Handbrake
>> http://handbrake.fr/
>>
>> Gimp
>> http://www.gimp.org/
>>
>> Pidgin
>> http://www.pidgin.im/
>>
>>
>> Some salesmanship. So, whaddya think?
>>
>> -Jason Simanek
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
>
>
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Re: GRAMPS Website

Gary Burton
In reply to this post by Jason Simanek-2
> I propose keeping the current Wikimedia-based site as our
> everything-but-the-kitchen-sink 'WIKI' while having another very simple
> site that is the 'FACE' of Gramps. I would whole-heartedly build this
> for GRAMPS. Because I want to recommend this application to other people
> without having to download and install it for them.
>

I am "for", as long as the proposal is just to act as a more attractive, simpler face to the website than the MediaWiki main page. Whatever you come up with should be as maintenance free as possible. So, keep the content in the wiki and have nothing more than news and a few choice links pointing back to the wiki.

Can you do anything with the MediaWiki CSS to keep the colours in keeping with whatever design you come up with for your proposal?

Bye

Gary



     


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Re: GRAMPS Website

Duncan Lithgow-5
I have thought many times of doing exactly what Jason suggests. I just
haven't been able to commit to doing it. Once it's done however
there's very little maintenence involved.

perhaps limiting it to 5-10 pages is the way to go. For example:

Home
---About
---Download
------Plugins
------Linux
------Mac OS X
------Windows
---Contact
---Features

Assuming Jason uses a normal CMS I'd gladely help get the text, layout
and images prepared.

Jason, Do you know how to make a mockup which will tell google not to
crawl it? That's how I'd like to see us start. I can create a sub
domain of lithgow-schmidt.dk for this if you don't have anything
available just now

Duncan
(back from exams, passed, just)

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Re: GRAMPS Website

Douglas S. Blank
In reply to this post by Benny Malengier
Benny Malengier wrote:

> The present website is there for simplicity, nobody of the devels has
> time to maintain another sort of website.
> It would be great I think if you take something like this upon you.
>
> Some comments:
> 1/ try to scrape the news from the wiki news. It would be annoying to
> have to maintain news at two places
> 2/ it should be a front only, all the rest remains the wiki. Let's not
> create overhead nobody can maintain
> 3/ you should discuss with Nick Wallingford what is possible at the
> hosting company
>
> So I am for, how about the other devels?

I am for it. The current site is functional, but could stand to use a
easy to use, pretty face. I think that the Mono site captures the look
of a flashy, easy to use front, with the backend of the wiki:

http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page

I don't know how much they were able to do with CSS or how much they had
to code. Might be worth asking.

But I agree with Benny: it has to be maintainable and work with the
existing infrastructure.

-Doug


> Benny
>
> 2009/1/20 Jason Simanek <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>
>     Hello,
>
>     I've got a suggestion.
>
>     GRAMPS is great software. It's also software that now runs on Linux as
>     well as Windows and Mac OSX. Over the last year and a half I have had
>     many conversations about genealogy and the subject of what software I
>     use always comes up.
>
>     When it comes to genealogical research people are interested in choosing
>     an application that will not only be around for a while, but is also an
>     excellent product that implements the best methods possible. With Gramps
>     being open source, freely available to anyone and in steady development,
>     it's got a lot going for it. This is a seriously valuable tool for
>     society. That's the way I see it.
>
>     HOWEVER, as nice and chock-full of information as the current
>     Wikimedia-based website is, it's anything but friendly and inviting to
>     anyone that isn't a nerd (no offense!).
>
>     I propose keeping the current Wikimedia-based site as our
>     everything-but-the-kitchen-sink 'WIKI' while having another very simple
>     site that is the 'FACE' of Gramps. I would whole-heartedly build this
>     for GRAMPS. Because I want to recommend this application to other people
>     without having to download and install it for them.
>
>     Examples:
>
>     Audacity (ugly, but simple and clear)
>     http://audacity.sourceforge.net/
>
>     Handbrake
>     http://handbrake.fr/
>
>     Gimp
>     http://www.gimp.org/
>
>     Pidgin
>     http://www.pidgin.im/
>
>
>     Some salesmanship. So, whaddya think?
>
>     -Jason Simanek
>
>
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>     [hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>
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>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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--
Douglas S. Blank
Director, Institute for Personal Robots in Education (IPRE)
http://www.roboteducation.org
Chair, and Associate Professor, Computer Science, Bryn Mawr College
http://cs.brynmawr.edu/~dblank  (610)526-6501

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Re: GRAMPS Website

Brian Matherly
In reply to this post by Benny Malengier
> The present website is there for simplicity, nobody of the
> devels has time
> to maintain another sort of website.
> It would be great I think if you take something like this
> upon you.
>
> Some comments:
> 1/ try to scrape the news from the wiki news. It would be
> annoying to have
> to maintain news at two places
> 2/ it should be a front only, all the rest remains the
> wiki. Let's not
> create overhead nobody can maintain
> 3/ you should discuss with Nick Wallingford what is
> possible at the hosting
> company
>
> So I am for, how about the other devels?

Me too. But let's make sure that it flows smoothly into the Wiki because that's where all the important stuff is. Let's make sure the wiki isn't hidden in any way.

~Brian

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Re: GRAMPS Website

Nick Wallingford-2
That should not be a major problem, and may well give us some benefit.
The wiki is currently in a sub-directory of our webspace, but we use
some re-writing to make it look like it is the 'root'.  With various
problems, including the rewrite to root, and the use of
internationalisation of pages, and some problems with searches within
the wiki - I think it would be a *great* thing to have a set of 'front
end' pages, with links into the wiki.

I'm all for it, and propose to set up Jason so he can proceed if I don't
hear "oh, no" in the near future from the list...

Nick Wallingford
Tauranga, New Zealand
[hidden email]


Brian Matherly wrote:

>> The present website is there for simplicity, nobody of the
>> devels has time
>> to maintain another sort of website.
>> It would be great I think if you take something like this
>> upon you.
>>
>> Some comments:
>> 1/ try to scrape the news from the wiki news. It would be
>> annoying to have
>> to maintain news at two places
>> 2/ it should be a front only, all the rest remains the
>> wiki. Let's not
>> create overhead nobody can maintain
>> 3/ you should discuss with Nick Wallingford what is
>> possible at the hosting
>> company
>>
>> So I am for, how about the other devels?
>
> Me too. But let's make sure that it flows smoothly into the Wiki because that's where all the important stuff is. Let's make sure the wiki isn't hidden in any way.
>
> ~Brian
>
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Re: 3.2 in roadmap?

Brian Matherly
In reply to this post by Benny Malengier
Benny,

Great thoughts. Here are some comments:

> with the aim for 3.1 in March, there start to be things
> that will have to be
> postponed to 3.2, future trunk.
> Is it possible to already make an entry for that in the bug
> tracker to add
> tickets to it?

Done. If there are any feature request issues currently targeted for 3.1.x, we should probably change them to 3.2.x (unless we are actually going to implement them before 3.1).

> Further, there are some core things I would like to see
> happen after 3.1,
> one being
> http://www.gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=2563
> Perhaps remove of make and transfer to python-setuptools
> can be another as
> nobody of the developers knows the present make system (it
> was made by a
> collegue of Richard Taylor I believe).
> If these larger cleanups/rewrites are not done from time to
> time by all
> developers we will end up with only border case polish in
> GRAMPS and bolting
> one thing upon the other.
> And what about python 3.0 support.... March will be here
> quicker than we
> think, and knowing what large things we want to achieve
> after 3.1 helps to
> focus. Further, these larger issues should be supported by
> more than 1
> developer.

I couldn't agree more. I pretty much spend all of my precious Gramps time doing cleanup. I can't remember the last time I added a feature. And there is plenty more that could be cleaned up.

> Should we make some extra feature request and then
> vote/discuss them
> somehow? I made some:
>
> http://www.gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=2620 Python
> 3.0 support
> http://www.gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=2621 use
> python-setuptools
> instead of make
> http://www.gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=2563  Add
> change-active
> signals for page views
> http://www.gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=2622 File
> Organization (GEPS
> 008)
> http://www.gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=2623 Import
> Export Merge
> (GEPS 009)

I'm not sure if voting is necessary. They are all great features/changes. The first step is definitely to document the potential change on the tracker (as you have done). Discussion can ensue there, but ultimately, it comes down to a developer taking the time to implement it.

> If other now some important goals GRAMPS can work to that
> merit to be in
> 3.2, let us know.
>
>
> Some other thing that you might consider: freeze of trunk
> somewhere in
> february without the creation of a new trunk yet. I see
> many projects doing
> that for some weeks as a way to indicate everybody should
> work on bug fixes
> in the trunk before starting new features in the new trunk.

I think we will make the 3.1 branch in mid February (depending on how many new features people actually want to add). That will give us a couple of weeks to work out the bugs.

~Brian

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Re: GRAMPS Website

Jason Simanek-2
In reply to this post by Gary Burton
On Tue, 2009-01-20 at 17:06 +0000, Gary Burton wrote:
> > I propose keeping the current Wikimedia-based site as our
> > everything-but-the-kitchen-sink 'WIKI' while having another very
> > simple site that is the 'FACE' of Gramps.

>  Whatever you come up with should be as maintenance free as possible.

Yes. The more automated it is the less likely it is to fall out of sync
with the Wiki, which is where all the 'real work' is done.

> Can you do anything with the MediaWiki CSS to keep the colours in
> keeping with whatever design you come up with for your proposal?

I'll see what I can do. I can definitely edit the wiki's stylesheets to
keep both sites consistent in look and feel.

> Jason, Do you know how to make a mockup which will tell google not to
> crawl it? That's how I'd like to see us start.

I would put a working example together under my own domain for you all
to review during the development process.

I don't know much about WikiMedia, so there might be a way I could build
these proposed new pages from within the WikiMedia CMS. If not I'm sure
there is a way to pull/push data from/to the proposed 'Introduction
Pages'.

Thank you all for your positive response to this suggestion!

-Jason


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Re: GRAMPS Website

Benny Malengier

I don't know much about WikiMedia, so there might be a way I could build
these proposed new pages from within the WikiMedia CMS. If not I'm sure
there is a way to pull/push data from/to the proposed 'Introduction

The news gramplet does this already.

Benny


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Re: GRAMPS Website

Douglas S. Blank
In reply to this post by Jason Simanek-2
Jason,

Before thinking too much about separating the front flash from the back
wiki, please check out:

http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page

It looks like they have both in one.

-Doug


> On Tue, 2009-01-20 at 17:06 +0000, Gary Burton wrote:
>> > I propose keeping the current Wikimedia-based site as our
>> > everything-but-the-kitchen-sink 'WIKI' while having another very
>> > simple site that is the 'FACE' of Gramps.
>
>>  Whatever you come up with should be as maintenance free as possible.
>
> Yes. The more automated it is the less likely it is to fall out of sync
> with the Wiki, which is where all the 'real work' is done.
>
>> Can you do anything with the MediaWiki CSS to keep the colours in
>> keeping with whatever design you come up with for your proposal?
>
> I'll see what I can do. I can definitely edit the wiki's stylesheets to
> keep both sites consistent in look and feel.
>
>> Jason, Do you know how to make a mockup which will tell google not to
>> crawl it? That's how I'd like to see us start.
>
> I would put a working example together under my own domain for you all
> to review during the development process.
>
> I don't know much about WikiMedia, so there might be a way I could build
> these proposed new pages from within the WikiMedia CMS. If not I'm sure
> there is a way to pull/push data from/to the proposed 'Introduction
> Pages'.
>
> Thank you all for your positive response to this suggestion!
>
> -Jason
>
>
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Re: GRAMPS Website

Jason Simanek-2
On Wed, 2009-01-21 at 09:05 -0500, Douglas S. Blank wrote:
> Before thinking too much about separating the front flash from the back
> wiki, please check out:
>
> http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page
>
> It looks like they have both in one.

Thanks Doug! The little bit that Nick has told me makes it sound like
making the site something separate that points to the wiki will help
simplify some of the URL challenges he's had to deal with.

Also, after looking at the source code of the mono site, it doesn't look
like they are using WikiMedia as a CMS. In reality that's my main reason
for not using WikiMedia to create the new pages: it looks like a kludge
from my perspective. :D  Hopefully I can make this very simple and
well-integrated with the content that is directly manipulated on the
wiki.

I will certainly be looking at the Mono site as a good example. I
appreciate the suggestion.

Have a great day,

Jason


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Re: GRAMPS Website

Douglas S. Blank
> On Wed, 2009-01-21 at 09:05 -0500, Douglas S. Blank wrote:
>> Before thinking too much about separating the front flash from the back
>> wiki, please check out:
>>
>> http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page
>>
>> It looks like they have both in one.
>
> Thanks Doug! The little bit that Nick has told me makes it sound like
> making the site something separate that points to the wiki will help
> simplify some of the URL challenges he's had to deal with.

Jason,

That may be true, but I'd rather treat those as two different issues:
there are config issues, and there is the look/design/maintenance of the
website. I think we can fix the config issues independently, so let's keep
that sparate for the moment.

> Also, after looking at the source code of the mono site, it doesn't look
> like they are using WikiMedia as a CMS.

I think that they are using WikiMedia. It looks to me like they have done
some very clever CSS to hide that fact. To quote Randy Newman: "I could be
wrong, but I don't think so." :)

> In reality that's my main reason
> for not using WikiMedia to create the new pages: it looks like a kludge
> from my perspective.

If one can do what mono-project does, and stay in the WikiMedia framework,
I think that that will be simpler moving forward... less dependencies, and
less things to maintain.

> :D  Hopefully I can make this very simple and
> well-integrated with the content that is directly manipulated on the
> wiki.

I've gone that route before: I wrote a PHP frontend for a moinmoin
backend. See http://pyrorobotics.org/ for example. In the end, I wish that
I had done similar things via CSS.

> I will certainly be looking at the Mono site as a good example. I
> appreciate the suggestion.

Just my $.02... good luck!

-Doug

> Have a great day,
>
> Jason
>
>
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Re: GRAMPS Website

Jason Simanek-2
Doug,

On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 9:16 AM, Douglas S. Blank
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> there are config issues, and there is the look/design/maintenance of the
> website. I think we can fix the config issues independently, so let's keep
> that sparate for the moment.

If possible, definitely.

>> Also, after looking at the source code of the mono site, it doesn't look
>> like they are using WikiMedia as a CMS.
>
> I think that they are using WikiMedia. It looks to me like they have done
> some very clever CSS to hide that fact. To quote Randy Newman: "I could be
> wrong, but I don't think so." :)

I looked at the page source on the Mono site and it doesn't seem to
have the usual MediaWiki markup structure/tendencies. CSS can't hide
the page source. However, I do see a JavaScript file linked called
'wikihacks.js', which might indicate that they are using MediaWiki as
you suggest. I  guess I need to see how much flexibility there is to
create a custom page template within MediaWiki.

> I've gone that route before: I wrote a PHP frontend for a moinmoin
> backend. See http://pyrorobotics.org/ for example. In the end, I wish that
> I had done similar things via CSS.

I want to use the most stable and automated solution that I am capable
of creating. My fear of struggling to make the pages work from within
MediaWiki is that it will take a huge hack to make it work. A hack
that could be incompatible with future updates to MediaWiki. The PHP
frontend that you mentioned may have been a situation like that. I
don't know. A hack to use the MediaWiki CMS and a hack to NOT use the
Media Wiki CMS are still both hacks.

> Just my $.02... good luck!

Thanks! Probably going to need it.

Whatever the final solution is, it will be clever, stable, easy to
maintain and pretty. I promise!

-Jason

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