Baptism vs. Christening

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Baptism vs. Christening

Marc-André Hermanns
Dear all,

I am a German GRAMPS user, and was wondering whether there is a
difference between "Baptism" and "Christening". Both Events are
possible, and I was wondering, whether I am recording everything correctly.

Cheers,
Marc-Andre

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Re: Baptism vs. Christening

Martin Ewing
This seems like a distinction with no difference -- in my tradition, anyway.  (Perhaps there is such a thing as non-Christian baptism? :-) I would say it is a matter of your personal preference, but it's probably best to decide on one and use it consistently. 

Does the same choice exist in the German language?

Martin

On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 2:01 PM, Marc-Andre Hermanns <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dear all,

I am a German GRAMPS user, and was wondering whether there is a
difference between "Baptism" and "Christening". Both Events are
possible, and I was wondering, whether I am recording everything correctly.

Cheers,
Marc-Andre

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Re: Baptism vs. Christening

Martin Ewing
Hmm - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptism This article says

"In some traditions, baptism is also called christening, but for others the word "christening" is reserved for the baptism of infants."

but 

"Baptism" has also been used to refer to any ceremony, trial, or experience by which a person is initiated, purified, or given a name..."

It is true that an infant baptism, in my experience, usually involves asking the parents "what name shall be given to this child?"

And Gramps also gives the option of "adult christening".  This all seems pretty confusing!

Martin

On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 2:19 PM, Alan Strohm <[hidden email]> wrote:
According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christening, Christening is a naming ceremony.  Not all forms of baptism (e.g. adult baptism) involve naming.

--Alan


On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 2:14 PM, Martin Ewing <[hidden email]> wrote:
This seems like a distinction with no difference -- in my tradition, anyway.  (Perhaps there is such a thing as non-Christian baptism? :-) I would say it is a matter of your personal preference, but it's probably best to decide on one and use it consistently. 

Does the same choice exist in the German language?

Martin


On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 2:01 PM, Marc-Andre Hermanns <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dear all,

I am a German GRAMPS user, and was wondering whether there is a
difference between "Baptism" and "Christening". Both Events are
possible, and I was wondering, whether I am recording everything correctly.

Cheers,
Marc-Andre

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Re: Baptism vs. Christening

Doug Morrison-Cleary
In reply to this post by Marc-André Hermanns
On Sun, 31 Jul 2011 20:01:51 +0200
Marc-Andre Hermanns <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> I am a German GRAMPS user, and was wondering whether there is a
> difference between "Baptism" and "Christening". Both Events are
> possible, and I was wondering, whether I am recording everything
> correctly.
>
> Cheers,
> Marc-Andre

Marc-Andre,

While 'christening' has been used by some parts of the Christian Church
as an alternative name for 'baptism', baptism is the more correct term.
I encourage everyone to use 'baptism' to describe the Christian ritual
of initiation that involves water.

There are other baptism rituals in other faiths and the word 'baptism'
should, I believe, be used for the Jewish ritual, at least.

Regards,
Doug

++++++
The Rev'd Doug Morrison-Cleary, OSL
Priest in the Anglican Diocese of Newcastle, Australia
(My Theology degree major was Church History)

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Re: Baptism vs. Christening

Stephen George
In reply to this post by Marc-André Hermanns
On 1/08/2011 4:01 AM, Marc-Andre Hermanns wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> I am a German GRAMPS user, and was wondering whether there is a
> difference between "Baptism" and "Christening". Both Events are
> possible, and I was wondering, whether I am recording everything correctly.
>
> Cheers,
> Marc-Andre
>

 From my point of view, I always considered a Christening to be of an
baby (who cannot make up own mind), where the parents promise to bring
up the child following Gods ways.

A Baptism was once a person become old enough to make up their own mind
to follow Christ they would get baptized as a public statement of
commitment and to show their faith.

So in one case (Christening ) the parents offer the child to God, in the
other case (Baptism) a person offers themselves to God.

So in my eyes they are two very different things. Buts that's just one
point of view.

Cheers
Steve



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Re: Baptism vs. Christening

Nicholas Robinson
On Mon, 2011-08-01 at 09:38 +1000, Stephen George wrote:

> On 1/08/2011 4:01 AM, Marc-Andre Hermanns wrote:
> > Dear all,
> >
> > I am a German GRAMPS user, and was wondering whether there is a
> > difference between "Baptism" and "Christening". Both Events are
> > possible, and I was wondering, whether I am recording everything correctly.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Marc-Andre
> >
>
>  From my point of view, I always considered a Christening to be of an
> baby (who cannot make up own mind), where the parents promise to bring
> up the child following Gods ways.
>
> A Baptism was once a person become old enough to make up their own mind
> to follow Christ they would get baptized as a public statement of
> commitment and to show their faith.
>
> So in one case (Christening ) the parents offer the child to God, in the
> other case (Baptism) a person offers themselves to God.
>
> So in my eyes they are two very different things. Buts that's just one
> point of view.
>
> Cheers
> Steve
>
>
>
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For what it's worth. Steve has exactly described what I have always
understood.

Nick

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Re: Baptism vs. Christening

Benny Malengier
The two things come from the GEDCOM support of Gramps.
See GEDCOM for their "official" meaning
http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~pmcbride/gedcom/55gcappa.htm (tags BAPM and CHR)

Not very enlightening, but christening also can contain name giving.

Benny

2011/8/1 Nicholas Robinson <[hidden email]>
On Mon, 2011-08-01 at 09:38 +1000, Stephen George wrote:
> On 1/08/2011 4:01 AM, Marc-Andre Hermanns wrote:
> > Dear all,
> >
> > I am a German GRAMPS user, and was wondering whether there is a
> > difference between "Baptism" and "Christening". Both Events are
> > possible, and I was wondering, whether I am recording everything correctly.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Marc-Andre
> >
>
>  From my point of view, I always considered a Christening to be of an
> baby (who cannot make up own mind), where the parents promise to bring
> up the child following Gods ways.
>
> A Baptism was once a person become old enough to make up their own mind
> to follow Christ they would get baptized as a public statement of
> commitment and to show their faith.
>
> So in one case (Christening ) the parents offer the child to God, in the
> other case (Baptism) a person offers themselves to God.
>
> So in my eyes they are two very different things. Buts that's just one
> point of view.
>
> Cheers
> Steve
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Take our quick survey online.  Come on, we don't ask for help often.
> Plus, you'll get a chance to win $100 to spend on ThinkGeek.
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> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users

For what it's worth. Steve has exactly described what I have always
understood.

Nick

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Please inform me that this message has gone astray before deleting it.
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Re: Baptism vs. Christening

Rogier Visser
In reply to this post by Nicholas Robinson
Wouldn't this suggest that in the various reports, ages of christened
individuals at death should be given as "at least xx years old"?
In Detailed Ancestors Report, christened individuals without
birth-event (because it is unknown) do not get 'at-least' ages
printed, which I think, would be a good thing to do.



On 1 August 2011 09:23, Nicholas Robinson <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Mon, 2011-08-01 at 09:38 +1000, Stephen George wrote:
>> On 1/08/2011 4:01 AM, Marc-Andre Hermanns wrote:
>> > Dear all,
>> >
>> > I am a German GRAMPS user, and was wondering whether there is a
>> > difference between "Baptism" and "Christening". Both Events are
>> > possible, and I was wondering, whether I am recording everything correctly.
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > Marc-Andre
>> >
>>
>>  From my point of view, I always considered a Christening to be of an
>> baby (who cannot make up own mind), where the parents promise to bring
>> up the child following Gods ways.
>>
>> A Baptism was once a person become old enough to make up their own mind
>> to follow Christ they would get baptized as a public statement of
>> commitment and to show their faith.
>>
>> So in one case (Christening ) the parents offer the child to God, in the
>> other case (Baptism) a person offers themselves to God.
>>
>> So in my eyes they are two very different things. Buts that's just one
>> point of view.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> Plus, you'll get a chance to win $100 to spend on ThinkGeek.
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>> _______________________________________________
>> Gramps-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
>
> For what it's worth. Steve has exactly described what I have always
> understood.
>
> Nick
>
> --
> SAVE PAPER - THINK BEFORE YOU PRINT!
>
> This e-mail is confidential and privileged. If you are not the intended
> recipient please accept my apologies; please do not disclose, copy or
> distribute information in this e-mail or take any action in reliance on
> its contents: to do so is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.
> Please inform me that this message has gone astray before deleting it.
> Thank you for your co-operation.
>
>
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Re: Baptism vs. Christening

Simon Lenz
In reply to this post by Marc-André Hermanns

Hello

In my opinion the both Terms are not equal but Very similar. Christening is baptism in an christian context.

SoSo I think the Set of people who have christening is a subset to the set of people who are baptized.

And by the way, in germany wer have only one word(afaik): "Taufe"
And we would translate it with "baptism"

Greetings

Am 02.08.2011 15:26 schrieb "Rogier Visser" <[hidden email]>:

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Re: Baptism vs. Christening

Marc-André Hermanns
Hi Simon,

> And by the way, in germany wer have only one word(afaik): "Taufe"
> And we would translate it with "baptism"

This is what made me ask about it in the first place. As in German there
seems not to be a difference, how to translate it? Or in other words: I
have people of Christian religion in my database. The majority was
baptized/christened shortly after birth. Some are catholic, some are
protestant. Should I add a 'baptism' event for them, or the
'christening' event?

>From what I read so far, I will probably use baptism, and store the
actual religion in a 'non-standard attribute' called religion. Or maybe
a note. I am not sure about this. Any best practices here?

Cheers,
Marc-Andre

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Re: Baptism vs. Christening

Simon Lenz

I'm using the baptism add  the religion as an attribute to the whole person, Not to the event.

Am 03.08.2011 10:53 schrieb "Marc-Andre Hermanns" <[hidden email]>:
> Hi Simon,
>
>> And by the way, in germany wer have only one word(afaik): "Taufe"
>> And we would translate it with "baptism"
>
> This is what made me ask about it in the first place. As in German there
> seems not to be a difference, how to translate it? Or in other words: I
> have people of Christian religion in my database. The majority was
> baptized/christened shortly after birth. Some are catholic, some are
> protestant. Should I add a 'baptism' event for them, or the
> 'christening' event?
>
>>From what I read so far, I will probably use baptism, and store the
> actual religion in a 'non-standard attribute' called religion. Or maybe
> a note. I am not sure about this. Any best practices here?
>
> Cheers,
> Marc-Andre
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Get tools for creating Super Apps. See the latest technologies.
> Sessions, hands-on labs, demos & much more. Register early & save!
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Re: Baptism vs. Christening

Marc-André Hermanns
Hi Simon,

> I'm using the baptism add  the religion as an attribute to the whole
person, Not to the event.

If you are storing it in the event. How do record when someone changed
his/her religion? Don't they get a new 'baptism' event in that case?

Cheers,
Marc-Andre

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Re: Baptism vs. Christening

Billie Walsh
I was "saved", baptized and raised Southern Baptist. When I got older I
converted to Episcopalian [ Anglican tradition ]. The "conversion" was
accomplished by taking "Confirmation Class" and being "Confirmed" by the
presiding Bishop. Being re-baptized wasn't necessary.

On 08/03/2011 04:12 AM, Marc-Andre Hermanns wrote:

>
> If you are storing it in the event. How do record when someone changed
> his/her religion? Don't they get a new 'baptism' event in that case?
>
> Cheers,
> Marc-Andre


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Re: Baptism vs. Christening

Marc-André Hermanns
Hi Billie,

> I was "saved", baptized and raised Southern Baptist. When I got older I
> converted to Episcopalian [ Anglican tradition ]. The "conversion" was
> accomplished by taking "Confirmation Class" and being "Confirmed" by the
> presiding Bishop. Being re-baptized wasn't necessary.

Yes, but you have had two religions in your personal history. So a
simple attribute at person level wont suffice, right? Even with no new
baptism, you have a second event of "confirmation" that would then have
space for the attribute.

Cheers,
Marc-Andre


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