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Bloat

Duncan Lithgow-2
2008/10/20 Benny Malengier <[hidden email]>:
>> Fewer events should actually make life easier for users and
>> developers. The events supplied by gramps should cover, say, 95% of
>> the cases people will encounter. If something else arises, they can
>> create a custom event.

There are several events I would like to remove from the dropdown
menu. How hard is it to have an options file like firefox so I can
switch various events off?

I would love to be able to hide whole tabs and dialogs from my system.
Whenever I use GRAMPS it always feels like I've selected the 'Advanced
User' option in an interface switcher.

Duncan
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Re: Bloat

Stéphane Charette-2
> I would love to be able to hide whole tabs and dialogs from my system.
> Whenever I use GRAMPS it always feels like I've selected the 'Advanced
> User' option in an interface switcher.

Someone brought this up recently (I forget where -- maybe on IRC?) and
I thought it was a pretty good idea.  The comment was something along
the lines of:  GRAMPS is intimidating for new users.  Too many tabs,
too many options.

Which had me thinking:  what if we default to a "basic" mode on
installation, and didn't show some of the tabs/options in the dialogs.

Then a custom or advanced mode, where either everything is shown, or
users could pick and choose what gets shown.  Group things together.
So we don't allow them to toggle every single field/control, but have
a handful of categories.

An interesting thing might be to setup a quick poll -- or set of
polls? -- on the wiki dev page to see what groups of features users
currently avoid.  If we could say "novice users are not likely to use
....." then that might give us insight into what could be hidden as a
category.

(Somewhat related idea:  prompting.  E.g., first 3 times a user adds
siblings to a family in a new database, we could pop up a tip to show
them how to sort siblings into the right order.)

Stéphane

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Re: Bloat

Gary Burton
In reply to this post by Duncan Lithgow-2
Hello Duncan,

>There are several events I would like to remove from the dropdown
>menu. How hard is it to have an options file like firefox so I can
>switch various events off?

I think most of the stock event types are mandated by GEDCOM, though I guess it's not impossible to hide some of them.

>I would love to be able to hide whole tabs and dialogs from my system.
>Whenever I use GRAMPS it always feels like I've selected the 'Advanced
>User' option in an interface switcher.

This is valid and I have thought about doing something here. There is a whole bunch of tabs (e.g. LDS) on the Person Editor I know I won't use and they just make the window bigger, eating up screen space.

Bye

Gary


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Re: Bloat

Benny Malengier


2008/10/20 Gary Burton <[hidden email]>
Hello Duncan,

>There are several events I would like to remove from the dropdown
>menu. How hard is it to have an options file like firefox so I can
>switch various events off?

I think most of the stock event types are mandated by GEDCOM, though I guess it's not impossible to hide some of them.

>I would love to be able to hide whole tabs and dialogs from my system.
>Whenever I use GRAMPS it always feels like I've selected the 'Advanced
>User' option in an interface switcher.

This is valid and I have thought about doing something here. There is a whole bunch of tabs (e.g. LDS) on the Person Editor I know I won't use and they just make the window bigger, eating up screen space.

in an older version of GRAMPS you could leave LDS out. No idea why that was removed.

It is however well known that using basic/advanced modes doesn't work, all people believe of themselves they are  experts.

An idea for the tabs: do as firefox: show the most important tabs, and show a black triangle down to the left where the other tabs can be selected. Custom widgets are not so easy in pygtk though (well, I mean in C/C++ one has more power to create the widgets).

Benny


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Re: Bloat

Gary Burton
In reply to this post by Duncan Lithgow-2
> in an older version of GRAMPS you could leave LDS out. No idea why that was removed.

Yes, I remember it appearing in some version - can't remember which. The LDS tab is a good example of some functionality that is just not relevant to the majority of Gramps users, so would be a good idea to hide.

>It is however well known that using basic/advanced modes doesn't work, all people believe of themselves they are  >experts.

I agree that having basic/advanced modes does not work. However not because everyone wants to be an expert... How do we decide that a certain tab or chunk of functionality belongs in the basic, advanced (or whatever) category. I think which functionality a user wants to see and which they don't will depend on their chosen methodology for recording their data in Gramps.

My personal methodology means that I only want to see maybe 5 or 6 of the tabs (out of 11) on the Person Editor, for example. The rest I have absolutely no use for. Other people will probably have a similar situation but their choice of essential tabs will be no doubt different to mine.

My other personal gripe I have (as I mentioned in an earlier post) is the amount of screen space some of the windows occupy. Notably the Person & Family editors. Just one of these windows occupies more than two thirds the width of my screen and half the height. I've been busy over the last couple of weeks cleaning up my own data and spent quite a lot of time moving windows around so that I could find what I was looking for.
As well as doing something so limit the tabs, I also believe that the widget layouts on these big windows could do with a bit of work to make more efficient use of space. Shortening the display length of some of the data entry fields would be a good start. Any one have any comments to share on this?

I think Stephane suggested doing some polls again. I think this would be a good idea so that we can find out the general user population's views on some of these UI questions.

Bye

Gary

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Re: Bloat

Benny Malengier
To add close buttons to the tabs:
http://coding.debuntu.org/python-gtk-how-set-gtk.notebook-tab-custom-widget

Should only be on the active tab so as not to overdo the icons then (like firefox I am thinking).
Problem is a way to get closed tabs back. A gtk fixed could be used with some hide magic to mimic the arrow to the right of firefox that shows a list on click (all custom code too), but the code to resize the fixed elements as the GtkFixed is resized, no idea there.
A lot of code also to remove tabs and get them back with the relevant data.

Benny

2008/10/20 Gary Burton <[hidden email]>
> in an older version of GRAMPS you could leave LDS out. No idea why that was removed.

Yes, I remember it appearing in some version - can't remember which. The LDS tab is a good example of some functionality that is just not relevant to the majority of Gramps users, so would be a good idea to hide.


>It is however well known that using basic/advanced modes doesn't work, all people believe of themselves they are  >experts.

I agree that having basic/advanced modes does not work. However not because everyone wants to be an expert... How do we decide that a certain tab or chunk of functionality belongs in the basic, advanced (or whatever) category. I think which functionality a user wants to see and which they don't will depend on their chosen methodology for recording their data in Gramps.

My personal methodology means that I only want to see maybe 5 or 6 of the tabs (out of 11) on the Person Editor, for example. The rest I have absolutely no use for. Other people will probably have a similar situation but their choice of essential tabs will be no doubt different to mine.

My other personal gripe I have (as I mentioned in an earlier post) is the amount of screen space some of the windows occupy. Notably the Person & Family editors. Just one of these windows occupies more than two thirds the width of my screen and half the height. I've been busy over the last couple of weeks cleaning up my own data and spent quite a lot of time moving windows around so that I could find what I was looking for.
As well as doing something so limit the tabs, I also believe that the widget layouts on these big windows could do with a bit of work to make more efficient use of space. Shortening the display length of some of the data entry fields would be a good start. Any one have any comments to share on this?

I think Stephane suggested doing some polls again. I think this would be a good idea so that we can find out the general user population's views on some of these UI questions.

Bye

Gary

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Re: Bloat

Martin Steer-2
In reply to this post by Benny Malengier
"Benny Malengier" <[hidden email]> writes:

> 2008/10/20 Gary Burton <[hidden email]>
>
>     Hello Duncan,
>    
>     >There are several events I would like to remove from the dropdown
>     >menu. How hard is it to have an options file like firefox so I can
>     >switch various events off?
>    
>     I think most of the stock event types are mandated by GEDCOM,
>     though I guess it's not impossible to hide some of them.
>    
>     >I would love to be able to hide whole tabs and dialogs from my system.
>     >Whenever I use GRAMPS it always feels like I've selected the 'Advanced
>     >User' option in an interface switcher.

>
> It is however well known that using basic/advanced modes doesn't work,
> all people believe of themselves they are experts.
>

Why not an options file? It shouldn't trouble the general user, and
won't complicate the interface, but would enable those who are really
bugged by some (mis)feature to do something about it.

--
Martin

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Re: Bloat

Benny Malengier


2008/10/21 Martin Steer <[hidden email]>
"Benny Malengier" <[hidden email]> writes:

> 2008/10/20 Gary Burton <[hidden email]>
>
>     Hello Duncan,
>
>     >There are several events I would like to remove from the dropdown
>     >menu. How hard is it to have an options file like firefox so I can
>     >switch various events off?
>
>     I think most of the stock event types are mandated by GEDCOM,
>     though I guess it's not impossible to hide some of them.
>
>     >I would love to be able to hide whole tabs and dialogs from my system.
>     >Whenever I use GRAMPS it always feels like I've selected the 'Advanced
>     >User' option in an interface switcher.

>
> It is however well known that using basic/advanced modes doesn't work,
> all people believe of themselves they are experts.
>

Why not an options file? It shouldn't trouble the general user, and
won't complicate the interface, but would enable those who are really
bugged by some (mis)feature to do something about it.

That is not good for testing. Furthermore, obscure options somewhere used by few people get forgotten and create cruft in the code, making maintenance more difficult.

Benny


--
Martin

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Re: Bloat

Martin Steer-2
"Benny Malengier" <[hidden email]> writes:

>
> That is not good for testing. Furthermore, obscure options somewhere
> used by few people get forgotten and create cruft in the code, making
> maintenance more difficult.
>

Who said anything about 'obscure' options?

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Re: Bloat

Benny Malengier


2008/10/22 Martin Steer <[hidden email]>
"Benny Malengier" <[hidden email]> writes:

>
> That is not good for testing. Furthermore, obscure options somewhere
> used by few people get forgotten and create cruft in the code, making
> maintenance more difficult.
>

Who said anything about 'obscure' options?

An option in a config file not visible in the user interface is something you know from reading a manual. Hence it is obscure :-D

Benny


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Re: Bloat

Eero Tamminen-3
In reply to this post by Benny Malengier
Hi,

On Tuesday 21 October 2008, Benny Malengier wrote:
> To add close buttons to the tabs:
>
http://coding.debuntu.org/python-gtk-how-set-gtk.notebook-tab-custom-widget
>
> Should only be on the active tab so as not to overdo the icons then (like
> firefox I am thinking).
> Problem is a way to get closed tabs back. A gtk fixed could be used with
> some hide magic to mimic the arrow to the right of firefox that shows a
> list on click (all custom code too), but the code to resize the fixed
> elements as the GtkFixed is resized, no idea there.
> A lot of code also to remove tabs and get them back with the relevant
> data.

What about just enabling Gtk Notebook tab scroll arrow and tab drag & drop
(re-ordering) support?   Maybe also the homogeneous attribute...


        - Eero

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Re: Bloat

Gary Burton
In reply to this post by Duncan Lithgow-2
> What about just enabling Gtk Notebook tab scroll arrow

Done already in trunk.

Bye

Gary



     

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Re: Bloat

Benny Malengier
ok, but I fail to see how that answers the original question of removing non-used tabs.

Benny

2008/10/22 Gary Burton <[hidden email]>
> What about just enabling Gtk Notebook tab scroll arrow

Done already in trunk.

Bye

Gary





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Re: Bloat

Eero Tamminen-3
Hi,

On Wednesday 22 October 2008, Benny Malengier wrote:
> ok, but I fail to see how that answers the original question of removing
> non-used tabs.

With the tab drag & drop you can re-arrange the tabs so that the ones you
care about are first.  I guess Gramps would then to save this order in the
settings.

Arrows are needed in case the dialog is too large and doesn't fit into
the window horizontally.  Homongous mode makes tabs wider (as wide
as largest one) so that the ones you've arranged last disappear from view in
smaller screens. :-)


        - Eero

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Re: Bloat

Serge Noiraud-2
In reply to this post by Benny Malengier
Le/The mercredi 22 octobre 2008, Benny Malengier a écrit/wrote :
> ok, but I fail to see how that answers the original question of removing
> non-used tabs.
And what about adding or removing tabs in plugins ?
I'm looking for this to add Geoview easyly.

Serge


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Re: Bloat

Gary Burton
In reply to this post by Duncan Lithgow-2
> ok, but I fail to see how that answers the original question of removing non-used tabs.

It doesn't - it answers a different question. In 3.0.x, a person editor window cannot be made smaller than the size of the notebook containing the tabs. Enabling the scrollable attribute on the notebook object is a quick method of allowing the window to be re-sized smaller than the notebook size. GTK puts scroll arrows on the notebook which lets you scroll through all the tabs. Try resizing a person editor in trunk and compare with 3.0.x.

Having said that, I still think that I prefer a solution that allows the user to enable and disable tabs which are appropriate to their data recording methodology.

Bye

Gary


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Re: Bloat

Benny Malengier
Gary, did you commit this change? I don't see a commit on my trunk and resize of person editor is already impossible before the notebook should start to collapse here.

Benny

2008/10/23 Gary Burton <[hidden email]>
> ok, but I fail to see how that answers the original question of removing non-used tabs.

It doesn't - it answers a different question. In 3.0.x, a person editor window cannot be made smaller than the size of the notebook containing the tabs. Enabling the scrollable attribute on the notebook object is a quick method of allowing the window to be re-sized smaller than the notebook size. GTK puts scroll arrows on the notebook which lets you scroll through all the tabs. Try resizing a person editor in trunk and compare with 3.0.x.

Having said that, I still think that I prefer a solution that allows the user to enable and disable tabs which are appropriate to their data recording methodology.

Bye

Gary


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Re: Bloat

Gary Burton
In reply to this post by Duncan Lithgow-2
>Gary, did you commit this change? I don't see a commit on my trunk and resize of person editor is already >impossible before the notebook should start to collapse here.

Revision 11076 and just to _EditPerson.py.

The other limiting factor preventing a person editor from resizing smaller is the width of the editable fields above the tabs. With the way I have KDE set up (font sizes, theme etc), I think the notebook is the first limiting factor then the width of the fields. Perhaps it is the opposite with you so you don't see the effect of the scrollable attribute.

I am no GTK expert. Is it possible to make the size of edit fields proportional to the window that contains them so that when the window is resized the edit fields also resize too? I think that at the moment the edit fields occupy a fixed width.

Bye

Gary




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Re: Bloat

Benny Malengier


2008/10/23 Gary Burton <[hidden email]>
>Gary, did you commit this change? I don't see a commit on my trunk and resize of person editor is already >impossible before the notebook should start to collapse here.

Revision 11076 and just to _EditPerson.py.

Sorry, svn log only shows commits in the directory where you run it. That's why I missed it. Anybody know how to get commits recursively in the subdirs to on running svn log, svn help log does not show something for that

 
The other limiting factor preventing a person editor from resizing smaller is the width of the editable fields above the tabs. With the way I have KDE set up (font sizes, theme etc), I think the notebook is the first limiting factor then the width of the fields. Perhaps it is the opposite with you so you don't see the effect of the scrollable attribute.

Indeed, it doesn't activate.
 
I am no GTK expert. Is it possible to make the size of edit fields proportional to the window that contains them so that when the window is resized the edit fields also resize too? I think that at the moment the edit fields occupy a fixed width.


GTK limits the space automatically of entry fields to 15 signs. To have it lower, one can prescribe a width and allow expanding. So to get a smaller edit person window, we can do:

1/Setting the with of signs in the ID to 7  (Suffix is already 6).
2/Reduce the with (in pixels) of the Type and Marker combo entry, so that Call name becomes the limiting factor. Eg for marker 100 and for type also 100
3/Set Call name to 10 signs
4/the table column spacing is now 12 in table15, reduce to 9

The above reduces the edit person window quite a lot. You can try it and see if you like it.

Doing the determination of sizes ourselves proportional would not be a good way to go (it means setting fixed widths), as the advantage of GTK is just that it does it for you.

Should we want to allow even smaller decrease of edit window, one would need a scrollable, and set a minimum width of table15 to eg 100. You can then decrease the editor so that parts are no longer visible (easy to try in glade, just open it and set table15 width to 100 and reduce the editor in glade).
We could allow the above also without scrollable, but I don't think new users would be thrilled of not seeing things.

Note that I did not check the rules of GTK apps for the above (see our wiki).

Benny



Bye

Gary




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Re: Bloat

Gary Burton
In reply to this post by Duncan Lithgow-2
Hello Benny

I have been trying out your suggestions on the glade file for the person editor.

>1/Setting the with of signs in the ID to 7  (Suffix is already 6).
>2/Reduce the with (in pixels) of the Type and Marker combo entry, so that Call name becomes the limiting factor. >Eg for marker 100 and for type also 100
>3/Set Call name to 10 signs
>4/the table column spacing is now 12 in table15, reduce to 9


Where in glade do you set the width in pixels? I can't find any thing for that.

Bye

Gary



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