Bug: the gender drop down resets

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Bug: the gender drop down resets

Marcus Zurhorst
Hello all,

I discovered a bug, but I cannot reproduce it 100% yet and need some help to narrow it down.

First of all, I am on Windows, 64bit, Gramps 5.

I created a new Family, and entered from there a new child. In this 2nd popup window for the creation of the Person, I started with the gender dropdown and clicked into forename field. After leaving now this field by clicking into another field, the gender dropdown is reset and my previous selection is lost. 

This does not happen when I only create a new Person, but when I enter the dialogue from the Family popup.

Also, when I save the Person (=close window) and re-enter it from the Family window (via "edit child"), it also does not happen. 

There seems to be a special condition which is not always met. 

Appreciate your help to identify the correct circumstances. 

Thanks a lot. 

Regards, Marcus 


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Re: Bug: the gender drop down resets

J. Allen Crider-2
I've never tried selecting gender before entering the name.  I do know
that when adding a new child, if the name is entered before selecting a
gender, Gramps will attempt to guess the gender from the name.  If the
child has a first name that does not already appear in the database, the
gender will remain Unknown.  If the first name is found in the database
and always associated with the same gender, it will guess that gender.
I don't know how it chooses the gender if the first name is used in the
database for both males and females.  When adding a spouse or parent,
the gender is set based on the relationship and does not change when the
name is entered, and I've never noticed it change when changing the name
of an existing person.

Allen Crider

On 10/12/2018 12:03 AM, Marcus Zurhorst wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> I discovered a bug, but I cannot reproduce it 100% yet and need some
> help to narrow it down.
>
> First of all, I am on Windows, 64bit, Gramps 5.
>
> I created a new Family, and entered from there a new child. In this 2nd
> popup window for the creation of the Person, I started with the gender
> dropdown and clicked into forename field. After leaving now this field
> by clicking into another field, the gender dropdown is reset and my
> previous selection is lost.
>
> This does not happen when I only create a new Person, but when I enter
> the dialogue from the Family popup.
>
> Also, when I save the Person (=close window) and re-enter it from the
> Family window (via "edit child"), it also does not happen.
>
> There seems to be a special condition which is not always met.
>
> Appreciate your help to identify the correct circumstances.
>
> Thanks a lot.
>
> Regards, Marcus
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
> https://gramps-project.org
>


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Re: Bug: the gender drop down resets

Nick Hall
On 12/10/2018 07:47, J. Allen Crider wrote:
> I don't know how it chooses the gender if the first name is used in
> the database for both males and females.

If there are more than twice the number of people with one gender than
another, then the gender is guessed; otherwise it is set to unknown.

https://github.com/gramps-project/gramps/blob/master/gramps/gen/lib/genderstats.py#L111


Nick.




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Re: Bug: the gender drop down resets

Marcus Zurhorst
Ah, I was not aware about the automatic gender guessing.
I am used to start with the gender, simply because I tended to forget this previously. 

I need to check whether the first name I used was new to the database, or kind of non-obvious female.
I will report back.


Am Fr., 12. Okt. 2018 um 09:25 Uhr schrieb Nick Hall <[hidden email]>:
On 12/10/2018 07:47, J. Allen Crider wrote:
> I don't know how it chooses the gender if the first name is used in
> the database for both males and females.

If there are more than twice the number of people with one gender than
another, then the gender is guessed; otherwise it is set to unknown.

https://github.com/gramps-project/gramps/blob/master/gramps/gen/lib/genderstats.py#L111


Nick.




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+49 (2841) 94 91 95 9
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Re: Bug: the gender drop down resets

J. Allen Crider-2
Gramps won't let you forget.  When you click on OK in the person editor
(for either a new person or an existing person), if the gender is set to
unknown, you will get a dialog box asking you to choose the gender.  One
of the options will be unknown so that you can leave it that way if you
want, but it will force you to make a deliberate choice.

Allen Crider

On 10/12/2018 06:32 AM, Marcus Zurhorst wrote:

> Ah, I was not aware about the automatic gender guessing.
> I am used to start with the gender, simply because I tended to forget
> this previously.
>
> I need to check whether the first name I used was new to the database,
> or kind of non-obvious female.
> I will report back.
>
>
> Am Fr., 12. Okt. 2018 um 09:25 Uhr schrieb Nick Hall
> <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>:
>
>     On 12/10/2018 07:47, J. Allen Crider wrote:
>      > I don't know how it chooses the gender if the first name is used in
>      > the database for both males and females.
>
>     If there are more than twice the number of people with one gender than
>     another, then the gender is guessed; otherwise it is set to unknown.
>
>     https://github.com/gramps-project/gramps/blob/master/gramps/gen/lib/genderstats.py#L111
>
>
>     Nick.
>
>
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Gramps-users mailing list
>     [hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>
>     https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
>     https://gramps-project.org
>
>
>
> --
> Marcus Zurhorst
> Zum Baerler Busch 6
> 47199 Duisburg
>
> +49 (2841) 94 91 95 9
> +49 (176) 70 52 92 75
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
> https://gramps-project.org
>


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Re: Bug: the gender drop down resets

GRAMPS - User mailing list
In reply to this post by Marcus Zurhorst
Thanks Nick!  I'd always wondered how the gender guessing worked. Now I can save all those "Tinker's damns" that would slip out when accidentally and temporarily saving the wrong gender with a particular Given name.. wondering if I'd added yet another permanent scar to my Gramps installation. (Like the times I've accidentally added new Place & Event types to my pull-down menus. Unlike those visible scars, I feared adding an invisible psychological scar and that I'd have to start correcting Male 'Mary's!)

I have a subtle extra (but really useful) application its No Guessing behavior ...
If the gender renmains "unknown" and no guess occurs for a commonly entered name when switching to another field after pasting in a Given Name, then I will KNOW that an extra invisible character was at the beginning of the paste buffer. So I need to clean out the invisible stuff to the left of that visible first letter.

Similarly, if table single lines expand to multiple lines in record tables, it indicates invisible items (like Linefeeds or Carriage Returns) got into one of the record items displayed in that table line.

On odd occasion, such non-printable characters from the Clipboard are made visible as weird Block Characters when a Clipboarded record is pasted in the Given name field.  I have no idea why they are visible sometimes but invisible most of the time.

It can be REALLY hard to keep from getting Tabs and other invisible characters in the Copy selection when using a touchpad or touchscreen to mark the selection area. (And programs like MS Word even "Intelligently" expand selections to grab the Paragraph mark when using the Cntl-CursorKeys... which converts them CursingKeys for me!)

Anyways, that describes when a "No guess" keeps me from guessing.

-Brian

--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 10/12/18, Marcus Zurhorst <[hidden email]> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] Bug: the gender drop down resets
 Date: Friday, October 12, 2018, 6:32 AM
 
 Ah, I was not aware about the automatic gender guessing.I am used to start with the gender, simply because I tended to forget this previously. 
 
 I need to check whether the first name I used was new to the database, or kind of non-obvious female.I will report back.
 
 Am Fr., 12. Okt. 2018 um 09:25 Uhr schrieb Nick
 Hall <[hidden email]>:
 On 12/10/2018 07:47, J. Allen Crider wrote:
 
 > I don't know how it chooses the gender if the first name is used in
 > the database for both males and females.
 
 If there are more than twice the number of people with one gender than another, then the gender is guessed; otherwise it is set to unknown.
 
 https://github.com/gramps-project/gramps/blob/master/gramps/gen/lib/genderstats.py#L111
 
 Nick.


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Re: Bug: the gender drop down resets

GRAMPS - User mailing list
In reply to this post by Marcus Zurhorst
Thanks Nick!  I'd always wondered how the gender guessing worked. Now I can save all those "Tinker's damns" that would slip out when accidentally and temporarily saving the wrong gender with a particular Given name.. wondering if I'd added yet another permanent scar to my Gramps installation. (Like the times I've accidentally added new Place & Event types to my pull-down menus. Unlike those visible scars, I feared adding an invisible psychological scar and that I'd have to start correcting Male 'Mary's!)

I have a subtle extra (but really useful) application its No Guessing behavior ...
If the gender renmains "unknown" and no guess occurs for a commonly entered name when switching to another field after pasting in a Given Name, then I will KNOW that an extra invisible character was at the beginning of the paste buffer. So I need to clean out the invisible stuff to the left of that visible first letter.

Similarly, if table single lines expand to multiple lines in record tables, it indicates invisible items (like Linefeeds or Carriage Returns) got into one of the record items displayed in that table line.

On odd occasion, such non-printable characters from the Clipboard are made visible as weird Block Characters when a Clipboarded record is pasted in the Given name field.  I have no idea why they are visible sometimes but invisible most of the time.

It can be REALLY hard to keep from getting Tabs and other invisible characters in the Copy selection when using a touchpad or touchscreen to mark the selection area. (And programs like MS Word even "Intelligently" expand selections to grab the Paragraph mark when using the Cntl-CursorKeys... which converts them CursingKeys for me!)

Anyways, that describes when a "No guess" keeps me from guessing.

-Brian

--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 10/12/18, Marcus Zurhorst <[hidden email]> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] Bug: the gender drop down resets
 Date: Friday, October 12, 2018, 6:32 AM
 
 Ah, I was not aware about the automatic gender guessing.I am used to start with the gender, simply because I tended to forget this previously. 
 
 I need to check whether the first name I used was new to the database, or kind of non-obvious female.I will report back.
 
 Am Fr., 12. Okt. 2018 um 09:25 Uhr schrieb Nick
 Hall <[hidden email]>:
 On 12/10/2018 07:47, J. Allen Crider wrote:
 
 > I don't know how it chooses the gender if the first name is used in
 > the database for both males and females.
 
 If there are more than twice the number of people with one gender than another, then the gender is guessed; otherwise it is set to unknown.
 
 https://github.com/gramps-project/gramps/blob/master/gramps/gen/lib/genderstats.py#L111
 
 Nick.


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Re: Bug: the gender drop down resets

Brad Rogers
In reply to this post by GRAMPS - User mailing list
On Fri, 12 Oct 2018 12:28:24 +0000 (UTC)
Emyoulation--- via Gramps-users <[hidden email]>
wrote:

Hello Emyoulation---,

>can save all those "Tinker's damns" that would slip out when
>accidentally and temporarily saving the wrong gender with a particular
>Given name..

This is one of(?) the jobs that the Rebuild Gender Statistics tool
exists for.

--
 Regards  _
         / )           "The blindingly obvious is
        / _)rad        never immediately apparent"
Hey there, Mr Average, you don't exist, you never did
Persons Unknown - Poison Girls


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Re: Bug: the gender drop down resets

ronaldDad
In reply to this post by J. Allen Crider-2
If you enter a sub-category before a greater one, Access databases do the
same thing--drop the entry. It can't fill a sub-record for a record that
does not yet exist. Could this be the issue?

(Totally new to Gramps--with absolutely no experience with it.)

Regards,
Ron

-----Original Message-----
From: J. Allen Crider <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2018 11:48 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] Bug: the gender drop down resets

I've never tried selecting gender before entering the name.  I do know
that when adding a new child, if the name is entered before selecting a
gender, Gramps will attempt to guess the gender from the name.  If the
child has a first name that does not already appear in the database, the
gender will remain Unknown.  If the first name is found in the database
and always associated with the same gender, it will guess that gender.
I don't know how it chooses the gender if the first name is used in the
database for both males and females.  When adding a spouse or parent,
the gender is set based on the relationship and does not change when the
name is entered, and I've never noticed it change when changing the name
of an existing person.

Allen Crider

On 10/12/2018 12:03 AM, Marcus Zurhorst wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> I discovered a bug, but I cannot reproduce it 100% yet and need some
> help to narrow it down.
>
> First of all, I am on Windows, 64bit, Gramps 5.
>
> I created a new Family, and entered from there a new child. In this 2nd
> popup window for the creation of the Person, I started with the gender
> dropdown and clicked into forename field. After leaving now this field
> by clicking into another field, the gender dropdown is reset and my
> previous selection is lost.
>
> This does not happen when I only create a new Person, but when I enter
> the dialogue from the Family popup.
>
> Also, when I save the Person (=close window) and re-enter it from the
> Family window (via "edit child"), it also does not happen.
>
> There seems to be a special condition which is not always met.
>
> Appreciate your help to identify the correct circumstances.
>
> Thanks a lot.
>
> Regards, Marcus
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
> https://gramps-project.org
>


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Re: Bug: the gender drop down resets

John Paton
In reply to this post by Marcus Zurhorst
I did some quick tests regarding this but by the time I had done that
and written it up to post here there were several much more erudite
posts. However I will post my effort anyway.

1. Created new database

2. Created two people John Doe, male and Jane Buck, female.

3. Created a new family with John Doe and Jane Buck as the parents.

4. Still in the family editor I selected the option to add a child which
brings up the person editor with the Surname field completed 'Doe' and
the cursor by DEFAULT in the 'Given Name' field.

5. Selected gender (male), THEN went back to 'Given Name' and entered a
name, gender field still shows male. THEN if I click in ANY other field
in the person editor the gender field does indeed revert to 'unknown'.

But this is surely not really a bug. By default, and I suspect common
usage, the first thing you would enter in the person editor is the given
name of the new child. GRAMPS will then attempt (with some success
usually) to guess the gender based on previously entered people in the
database.

In order to select the gender of the new person before entering the
given name requires the user to move the cursor from the default 'Given
Name' field to the 'Gender' field and back again.

John Paton


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Re: Bug: the gender drop down resets

Peter Flynn
In reply to this post by GRAMPS - User mailing list
On 12/10/18 13:28, Emyoulation--- via Gramps-users wrote:
> On odd occasion, such non-printable characters from the Clipboard
> are made visible as weird Block Characters when a Clipboarded record
> is pasted in the Given name field. I have no idea why they are
> visible sometimes but invisible most of the time.
Does Gramps have full Unicode compatibility?

I believe that both Windows and Linux (including Mac OS X) elide the
display of characters with no glyph (eg control characters and
non-visible spaces, etc) in text that you might copy, although if they
are format controls (eg SP, CR, LF, TAB, etc) they will obey them.

Some source applications (eg wordprocessors) can turn on visibility for
spaces and newlines to assist editing, but the characters are simply
captured as-is when copied, so the clipboard or paste buffer should
contain a byte-for-byte copy of the source PLUS a record of the
character-encoding used, if that information is available (IMHO,
defaulting to UTF-8).

Pasting them should always obey the rules of the target application (in
this case, Gramps). If there is a character-encoding mismatch and no
direct transformation is possible, a symbolic representation of the
source:target mismatch should be embedded in the pasted string, but I
don't know if Gramps does this.

It sounds as if Gramps makes such characters visible to remind you that
they should not be there and should be edited out. Normalization of
white-space characters is tricky to automate, because some people want
some characters retained while others want them removed or replaced.

///Peter


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Re: Bug: the gender drop down resets

enno
Op 14-10-18 om 12:16 schreef Peter Flynn:

> Pasting them should always obey the rules of the target application (in
> this case, Gramps). If there is a character-encoding mismatch and no
> direct transformation is possible, a symbolic representation of the
> source:target mismatch should be embedded in the pasted string, but I
> don't know if Gramps does this.
>
> It sounds as if Gramps makes such characters visible to remind you that
> they should not be there and should be edited out. Normalization of
> white-space characters is tricky to automate, because some people want
> some characters retained while others want them removed or replaced.
It's tricky indeed, but I think that they should be removed from most
fields, except notes, so that you can rely on international characters
to be stored and displayed properly, like in names, and avoid useless
formatting.

That said, some argue that non breaking spaces should be allowed in
names, to prevent automated first name extraction from giving results
that don't fit with the cultural habits for the persons origin.

Regards,

Enno



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Re: Bug: the gender drop down resets

Peter Flynn
On 14/10/18 11:53, Enno Borgsteede wrote:

> Op 14-10-18 om 12:16 schreef Peter Flynn:
>> [...] Normalization of white-space characters is tricky to
>> automate, because some people want some characters retained while
>> others want them removed or replaced.
>
> It's tricky indeed, but I think that they should be removed from
> most fields, except notes, so that you can rely on international
> characters to be stored and displayed properly, like in names, and
> avoid useless formatting.
>
> That said, some argue that non breaking spaces should be allowed in
> names, to prevent automated first name extraction from giving
> results that don't fit with the cultural habits for the persons
> origin.

Definitely.

So there need to be several rules, eg:

1. in a plaintext field that is not a name:
   a. remove leading and trailing white-space,
   b. normalize embedded white-space to single SP characters.

2. in a plaintext field that is a name:
   a. remove leading and trailing white-space,
   b. normalize/compress embedded TAB, SP, CR, LF, VT to single SP,
   c. preserve embedded NBSP, ZWJ, THINSP (?more).

3. in a rich-text field (eg HTML notes):
   a. remove leading and trailing white-space,
   b. preserve all other white-space as-is.

Or just flag non-SP characters as boxes and leave it to the user?

///Peter



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Re: Bug: the gender drop down resets

Nick Hall
In reply to this post by Peter Flynn
On 14/10/2018 11:16, Peter Flynn wrote:
> Does Gramps have full Unicode compatibility?

Yes.


Nick.



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Re: Bug: the gender drop down resets

GRAMPS - User mailing list
Was looking through the Gramps Wiki Documentation because there are some really good pages that should become more visible to new users.  In particular, there are several pages that show the names of the different elements of the interface.  And it is MUCH easier for newbies to look up how something works if they know the correct name for which to search. They fit nicely into the Preface subsection of the Table of Contents. I think it would be good to break the Preface subsections into separate files and add a launchpad page to it to encourage visits to pages like:


I wasn't planning to touch the promotional parts of the Preface.  But then discovered that the first paragraphs set an almost fatalistic (and certainly) disheartening tone.

"It does things other programs do" isn't a reason that encourages people to try something. I think we could come up with better. What reasons did you have for selecting Gramps over all the other options? And why do you stick with it?

When we have some promotional points to stir into the text, the Preface can be reorganized.  The first section is more about why to select Gramps while the "Why use Gramps?" portion is about why software helps when doing genealogy.  That is backwards.

-Brian


From the Preface page

Gramps is a software package designed for genealogical research. Although similar to other genealogical programs, Gramps offers some unique and features which we'll discuss below.

Gramps is an Open Source software package, which means you are free to make copies and distribute it to anyone you like. It's developed and maintained by a worldwide team of volunteers whose goal is to make Gramps powerful, yet easy to use. 


Why use Gramps?

Most genealogy programs allow you to enter information about your ancestors and descendants. Typically, they can display family relationships through charts, graphs, or reports. Some allow you to include pictures or other media. Most let you include information about people even if those people are not related to the primary family you happen to be researching. And they may include features that let you exchange data with other programs and print different types of reports.

Gramps has all these capabilities and more. Notably, it allows you to integrate bits and pieces of data as they arise from your research and to put them in one place -- your computer. You can then use your computer to manipulate, correlate, and analyze your data, rather than messing with reams of paper.



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Re: Why did you choose Gramps? (missed changing the subject line... AGAIN!)

GRAMPS - User mailing list
Was looking through the Gramps Wiki Documentation because there are some really good pages that should become more visible to new users.  In particular, there are several pages that show the names of the different elements of the interface.  And it is MUCH easier for newbies to look up how something works if they know the correct name for which to search. They fit nicely into the Preface subsection of the Table of Contents. I think it would be good to break the Preface subsections into separate files and add a launchpad page to it to encourage visits to pages like:


I wasn't planning to touch the promotional parts of the Preface.  But then discovered that the first paragraphs set an almost fatalistic (and certainly) disheartening tone.

"It does things other programs do" isn't a reason that encourages people to try something. I think we could come up with better. What reasons did you have for selecting Gramps over all the other options? And why do you stick with it?

When we have some promotional points to stir into the text, the Preface can be reorganized.  The first section is more about why to select Gramps while the "Why use Gramps?" portion is about why software helps when doing genealogy.  That is backwards.

-Brian


From the Preface page

Gramps is a software package designed for genealogical research. Although similar to other genealogical programs, Gramps offers some unique and features which we'll discuss below.

Gramps is an Open Source software package, which means you are free to make copies and distribute it to anyone you like. It's developed and maintained by a worldwide team of volunteers whose goal is to make Gramps powerful, yet easy to use. 


Why use Gramps?

Most genealogy programs allow you to enter information about your ancestors and descendants. Typically, they can display family relationships through charts, graphs, or reports. Some allow you to include pictures or other media. Most let you include information about people even if those people are not related to the primary family you happen to be researching. And they may include features that let you exchange data with other programs and print different types of reports.

Gramps has all these capabilities and more. Notably, it allows you to integrate bits and pieces of data as they arise from your research and to put them in one place -- your computer. You can then use your computer to manipulate, correlate, and analyze your data, rather than messing with reams of paper.




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Re: Why did you choose Gramps? (missed changing the subject line... AGAIN!)

John Paton
On 14/10/18 20:04, Emyoulation--- via Gramps-users wrote:
> "It does things other programs do" isn't a reason that encourages people
> to try something. I think we could come up with better. What reasons did
> you have for selecting Gramps over all the other options? And why do you
> stick with it?

I chose Gramps because, at the time, it was the only software which
would run on a Linux box (may still be for that matter). I had started
with Family Tree Maker(?) on Windows but took the decision to abandon
Microsoft completely (Windows ME was the last straw). Since then I have,
as far as is possible, used open source Software. I have never felt the
need to investigate any alternatives to Gramps.

John Paton



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Re: Why did you choose Gramps?

Peter Merchant
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As John,
My main research  computer was Kubuntu Linux, and the family computer
was XP using John Steeds Brothers Keeper Genealogical software [BK].

Gramps was the only program for linux and got good writeups so I started
using it.  I have learned a lot more about genealogical research from
the discussions on the forum over the years. I live and work in
graphview, which I didn't have before in BK. I started with gramps at an
early 4.x version and am now on version 5. I now find it easier to work
with than I remember Brothers Keeper being and also easier to show
others graphs of how they fit into the family. I am also pleased that
gramps development is not just a one-man band.

The family computer has now become Kubuntu Linux with gramps.
Thanks to all that work on it.
Peter Merchant



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Re: Why did you choose Gramps?

ingridvg70
When you need some reasons for windows users: 

I used to use Aldfaer, a Dutch freeware program, with limited sourcing capabilities. I started searching for an alternative, and Gramps stood out for a couple of reasons: 
- the prefix of the last name is recorded in a separate field, which is the Dutch way of recording names. Most 'American' programs have the prefix in the last name field.
- almost* all objects are available as lists: sources, citations, notes, media, with references to where they are used.
- gramplets to customize the UI in the way I want it.

( and as an added bonus: i love the Dashboard with all kinds of statistics, records, name clouds etc.)

Aldfaer was way quicker for entering data, but Gramps forces me to consider every event that I enter, providing evidence for it.

* almost: I would like the list of the links between sources and repositories, with the call number field.

On Mon, 15 Oct 2018 at 10:33 Peter Merchant <[hidden email]> wrote:
As John,
My main research  computer was Kubuntu Linux, and the family computer
was XP using John Steeds Brothers Keeper Genealogical software [BK].

Gramps was the only program for linux and got good writeups so I started
using it.  I have learned a lot more about genealogical research from
the discussions on the forum over the years. I live and work in
graphview, which I didn't have before in BK. I started with gramps at an
early 4.x version and am now on version 5. I now find it easier to work
with than I remember Brothers Keeper being and also easier to show
others graphs of how they fit into the family. I am also pleased that
gramps development is not just a one-man band.

The family computer has now become Kubuntu Linux with gramps.
Thanks to all that work on it.
Peter Merchant



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--
Met vriendelijke groet
Ingrid van Garderen


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Re: Why did you choose Gramps? (missed changing the subject line... AGAIN!)

stewrat
In reply to this post by GRAMPS - User mailing list
I started using Gramps because I didn't want something this important to be trusted to a proprietary piece of software or to a subscription service.
I wanted data under my control (on a windows laptop), not held in the cloud.
I liked the level of detail available on how it worked and what I could do - before I committed.

But it isn't an easy entry point for people not committed or with some kind of tech background, so I do think there is a lot of work that could be done there to get people up and running.
Technically I think it's kinda ok, (but a bit teccie) but especially the next few steps are important - adding those first few people etc.
As many have said, Gramps holds more, better data than others, and is flexible, which is both a great thing and also a barrier for new users. First step support could usefully distinguish between
Minimum info needed
Detail that can be added later (or never)
Mistakes to avoid now that will trip you up later

My 2p

Stewart

On 14 October 2018 at 20:04 Emyoulation--- via Gramps-users <[hidden email]> wrote:

Was looking through the Gramps Wiki Documentation because there are some really good pages that should become more visible to new users.  In particular, there are several pages that show the names of the different elements of the interface.  And it is MUCH easier for newbies to look up how something works if they know the correct name for which to search. They fit nicely into the Preface subsection of the Table of Contents. I think it would be good to break the Preface subsections into separate files and add a launchpad page to it to encourage visits to pages like:


I wasn't planning to touch the promotional parts of the Preface.  But then discovered that the first paragraphs set an almost fatalistic (and certainly) disheartening tone.

"It does things other programs do" isn't a reason that encourages people to try something. I think we could come up with better. What reasons did you have for selecting Gramps over all the other options? And why do you stick with it?

When we have some promotional points to stir into the text, the Preface can be reorganized.  The first section is more about why to select Gramps while the "Why use Gramps?" portion is about why software helps when doing genealogy.  That is backwards.

-Brian


From the Preface page

Gramps is a software package designed for genealogical research. Although similar to other genealogical programs, Gramps offers some unique and features which we'll discuss below.

Gramps is an Open Source software package, which means you are free to make copies and distribute it to anyone you like. It's developed and maintained by a worldwide team of volunteers whose goal is to make Gramps powerful, yet easy to use. 


Why use Gramps?

Most genealogy programs allow you to enter information about your ancestors and descendants. Typically, they can display family relationships through charts, graphs, or reports. Some allow you to include pictures or other media. Most let you include information about people even if those people are not related to the primary family you happen to be researching. And they may include features that let you exchange data with other programs and print different types of reports.

Gramps has all these capabilities and more. Notably, it allows you to integrate bits and pieces of data as they arise from your research and to put them in one place -- your computer. You can then use your computer to manipulate, correlate, and analyze your data, rather than messing with reams of paper.



 
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