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Can XML import gramplet used to ADD data to existing person?

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dani2

Can XML import gramplet used to ADD data to existing person?

Was looking at the XML import gramplet and I'm curious if it can be used to add data (notes, events,etc) to an existing person record, or it can only be used to import new persons.

Alternatively... is there other way to add data to records besides the different data entry windows?

Thanks

DS Blank

Re: Can XML import gramplet used to ADD data to existing person?

On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 12:36 PM, dani2 <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Was looking at the XML import gramplet and I'm curious if it can be used to
> add data (notes, events,etc) to an existing person record, or it can only be
> used to import new persons.

Importing, in general, should not be used if you have any overlap with
existing records. You could end up corrupting your data, or
duplicating existing records.

> Alternatively... is there other way to add data to records besides the
> different data entry windows?

On the other hand, the Spreadsheet Import [1] can be used to update
existing records. I think that is the only current method.

-Doug

[1] - http://www.gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=Gramps_3.4_Wiki_Manual_-_Manage_Family_Trees:_CSV_Import_and_Export

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dani2

Re: Can XML import gramplet used to ADD data to existing person?

DS Blank wrote

On the other hand, the Spreadsheet Import [1] can be used to update
existing records. I think that is the only current method.

Yes, that will be useful.
I add data to the Internet tab frequently. Adding Internet to the csv import would be in my wishlist.

Thanks!

D

enno

Re: Can XML import gramplet used to ADD data to existing person?

In reply to this post by DS Blank

Hi,

> Importing, in general, should not be used if you have any overlap with
> existing records. You could end up corrupting your data, or
> duplicating existing records.

While this is true, I think that it's safe to import XML that has no ID's or
other references to existing data, like in the example given on the site,
and then attach the new object an existing one, right? I mean, if the import
gramplet creates an object with a new ID, and the object can be seen in one
of the views on the main screen, you can see the new ID, and then create a
link to that from an existing object.

> On the other hand, the Spreadsheet Import [1] can be used to update
> existing records. I think that is the only current method.

Right. But when we have a choice between expanding the spreadsheet import to
add notes, sources, or citations, to a person, I can imagine that XML is
easier, especially when someone writes a convertor for the certificates that
we can find on familysearch, genlias, and so forth.

cheers,

Enno

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DS Blank

Re: Can XML import gramplet used to ADD data to existing person?

On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 7:14 PM, Enno Borgsteede <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
>
>> Importing, in general, should not be used if you have any overlap with
>> existing records. You could end up corrupting your data, or
>> duplicating existing records.
>
>
> While this is true, I think that it's safe to import XML that has no ID's or
> other references to existing data, like in the example given on the site,
> and then attach the new object an existing one, right? I mean, if the import
> gramplet creates an object with a new ID, and the object can be seen in one
> of the views on the main screen, you can see the new ID, and then create a
> link to that from an existing object.

Yes. If you import into an existing Family Tree, you will either add
to the records if non duplicates (all types of imports), duplicate the
data (all types of imports except Gramps XML and Spreadsheet), or
possibly corrupt the data (Gramps XML). Spreadsheet import is the only
one designed to update existing data.

For non-duplicate data imports, they will be appended to all available
existing records, and then you can connect/link/associate to other
data.

>> On the other hand, the Spreadsheet Import [1] can be used to update
>> existing records. I think that is the only current method.
>
>
> Right. But when we have a choice between expanding the spreadsheet import to
> add notes, sources, or citations, to a person, I can imagine that XML is
> easier, especially when someone writes a convertor for the certificates that
> we can find on familysearch, genlias, and so forth.

We would like to be able to merge, update, append with all incoming
import types. We're working on that!

-Doug

> cheers,
>
> Enno
>

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jerome

Re: Can XML import gramplet used to ADD data to existing person?

In reply to this post by enno

> While this is true, I think that it's safe to import XML that has no ID's or
> other references to existing data, like in the example given on the site,
> and then attach the new object an existing one, right? I mean, if the import
> gramplet creates an object with a new ID, and the object can be seen in one
> of the views on the main screen, you can see the new ID, and then create a
> link to that from an existing object.

Take care, IDs are cosmetic into Gramps database!
The real internal ids are not visible via Gramps' user interface.

Yes, there is an id for primary objects, but the 'handle' value is more
important.

In the past, I made some flat XML tables (fake ids, no handle), then
after an import according to Gramps XML file format, Gramps has
generated these handles. ;)

> especially when someone writes a convertor for the certificates that
> we can find on familysearch, genlias, and so forth.

Michiel made something like that, but ... it is experimental.
You can find some urls about this on the wiki: this should be tested
with caution!

Note, as online web repositories often change their API, I wonder how
long we will keep active such a convertor...

Just a question: how many web sites provides a good plain text based
file format on export (or a correct Gedcom support)? No need something
very complex... as said, comma separated value (csv) sounds designed for
that! or json, xml if need some validations, etc ...

Jérôme

Le 16/10/2012 01:14, Enno Borgsteede a écrit :

> Hi,
>
>> Importing, in general, should not be used if you have any overlap with
>> existing records. You could end up corrupting your data, or
>> duplicating existing records.
>
> While this is true, I think that it's safe to import XML that has no ID's or
> other references to existing data, like in the example given on the site,
> and then attach the new object an existing one, right? I mean, if the import
> gramplet creates an object with a new ID, and the object can be seen in one
> of the views on the main screen, you can see the new ID, and then create a
> link to that from an existing object.
>
>> On the other hand, the Spreadsheet Import [1] can be used to update
>> existing records. I think that is the only current method.
>
> Right. But when we have a choice between expanding the spreadsheet import to
> add notes, sources, or citations, to a person, I can imagine that XML is
> easier, especially when someone writes a convertor for the certificates that
> we can find on familysearch, genlias, and so forth.
>
> cheers,
>
> Enno
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Don't let slow site performance ruin your business. Deploy New Relic APM
> Deploy New Relic app performance management and know exactly
> what is happening inside your Ruby, Python, PHP, Java, and .NET app
> Try New Relic at no cost today and get our sweet Data Nerd shirt too!
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic-dev2dev
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>

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jerome

Re: Can XML import gramplet used to ADD data to existing person?

In reply to this post by dani2

I just find the script used for migrating some data to Gramps XML (was before Gramps 1.0)... If you learned xml/xsl before 2000, then this might be interresting, else it is only for fun!

http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=Old_database#Experimental

PS: I am not certain that this will still run with last parsers...

--- En date de : Mer 17.10.12, Jérôme <[hidden email]> a écrit :

> De: Jérôme <[hidden email]>
> Objet: Re: [Gramps-users] Can XML import gramplet used to ADD data to existing person?
> À: "Enno Borgsteede" <[hidden email]>
> Cc: "dani2" <[hidden email]>, [hidden email]
> Date: Mercredi 17 octobre 2012, 16h51
> > While this is true, I think that
> it's safe to import XML that has no ID's or
> > other references to existing data, like in the example
> given on the site,
> > and then attach the new object an existing one, right?
> I mean, if the import
> > gramplet creates an object with a new ID, and the
> object can be seen in one
> > of the views on the main screen, you can see the new
> ID, and then create a
> > link to that from an existing object.
>
> Take care, IDs are cosmetic into Gramps database!
> The real internal ids are not visible via Gramps' user
> interface.
>
> Yes, there is an id for primary objects, but the 'handle'
> value is more
> important.
>
> In the past, I made some flat XML tables (fake ids, no
> handle), then
> after an import according to Gramps XML file format, Gramps
> has
> generated these handles. ;)
>
> > especially when someone writes a convertor for the
> certificates that
> > we can find on familysearch, genlias, and so forth.
>
> Michiel made something like that, but ... it is
> experimental.
> You can find some urls about this on the wiki: this should
> be tested
> with caution!
>
> Note, as online web repositories often change their API, I
> wonder how
> long we will keep active such a convertor...
>
> Just a question: how many web sites provides a good plain
> text based
> file format on export (or a correct Gedcom support)? No need
> something
> very complex... as said, comma separated value (csv) sounds
> designed for
> that! or json, xml if need some validations, etc ...
>
>
> Jérôme
>
>
> Le 16/10/2012 01:14, Enno Borgsteede a écrit :
> > Hi,
> >
> >> Importing, in general, should not be used if you
> have any overlap with
> >> existing records. You could end up corrupting your
> data, or
> >> duplicating existing records.
> >
> > While this is true, I think that it's safe to import
> XML that has no ID's or
> > other references to existing data, like in the example
> given on the site,
> > and then attach the new object an existing one, right?
> I mean, if the import
> > gramplet creates an object with a new ID, and the
> object can be seen in one
> > of the views on the main screen, you can see the new
> ID, and then create a
> > link to that from an existing object.
> >
> >> On the other hand, the Spreadsheet Import [1] can
> be used to update
> >> existing records. I think that is the only current
> method.
> >
> > Right. But when we have a choice between expanding the
> spreadsheet import to
> > add notes, sources, or citations, to a person, I can
> imagine that XML is
> > easier, especially when someone writes a convertor for
> the certificates that
> > we can find on familysearch, genlias, and so forth.
> >
> > cheers,
> >
> > Enno
> >
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Don't let slow site performance ruin your business.
> Deploy New Relic APM
> > Deploy New Relic app performance management and know
> exactly
> > what is happening inside your Ruby, Python, PHP, Java,
> and .NET app
> > Try New Relic at no cost today and get our sweet Data
> Nerd shirt too!
> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic-dev2dev
> > _______________________________________________
> > Gramps-users mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>

enno

Re: Can XML import gramplet used to ADD data to existing person?

In reply to this post by jerome

Hi Jérôme,

> Just a question: how many web sites provides a good plain text based file
> format on export (or a correct Gedcom support)? No need something very
> complex... as said, comma separated value (csv) sounds designed for that!
> or json, xml if need some validations, etc ...

If you use Chrome, you can already download extensions that read names from
pages on Ancestry or FamilySearch to start searches for similar names on
other sites. These extensions are mostly written in JavaScript, and when you
can access the source, you can probably change them to create a simple
import for Gramps.

As far as I know, Chrome extensions can not simply write data to the
clipboard or to files on disk, but they can put text in a new window, so you
can copy it from there, I think. And a fellow Dutchman, Bob Coret, made an
experimental extension that grabs data from a search site, and then sends
that to one of his own web servers, which then creates a GEDCOM for
immediate download. Bob operates a couple of popular genealogy sites here in
The Netherlands, and he already has services that grab data from major index
sites and send new results from those sites in several formats, including
GEDCOM and XLS.

Anyway, when we can think of a simple format, like you said, like CSV or
JSON, maybe XML, so that smart users can create Chrome extensions for the
sites in their own countries, we have a chance to make this work in a simple
manner, so that the main Gramps developers don't have to create and maintain
convertors for sites they never use themselves.

I realize that this is not the developer list, but I also think that the
subject is interesting for more people than the core developers like you.
That's why I put it here. And I also invite you to check
http://rootsdev.org/blog/ for more information, and even source code of one
of the extensions mentioned here.

cheers,

Enno

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jerome

Re: Can XML import gramplet used to ADD data to existing person?

Hi Enno,

> If you use Chrome, you can already download extensions that
> read names from pages on Ancestry or FamilySearch to start
> searches for similar names on other sites. These extensions
> are mostly written in JavaScript, and when you can access
> the source, you can probably change them to create a simple
> import for Gramps.

Michiel also did something like that with Firefox and Greasemonkey scripts... http://members.tele2.nl/m.d.nauta/typeless_data_entry/typeless_data_entry.html

Jérôme

--- En date de : Mer 17.10.12, Enno Borgsteede <[hidden email]> a écrit :

> De: Enno Borgsteede <[hidden email]>
> Objet: Re: [Gramps-users] Can XML import gramplet used to ADD data to existing person?
> À: [hidden email]
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Date: Mercredi 17 octobre 2012, 23h33
> Hi Jérôme,
>
> > Just a question: how many web sites provides a good
> plain text based file format on export (or a correct Gedcom
> support)? No need something very complex... as said, comma
> separated value (csv) sounds designed for that! or json, xml
> if need some validations, etc ...
>
> If you use Chrome, you can already download extensions that
> read names from pages on Ancestry or FamilySearch to start
> searches for similar names on other sites. These extensions
> are mostly written in JavaScript, and when you can access
> the source, you can probably change them to create a simple
> import for Gramps.
>
> As far as I know, Chrome extensions can not simply write
> data to the clipboard or to files on disk, but they can put
> text in a new window, so you can copy it from there, I
> think. And a fellow Dutchman, Bob Coret, made an
> experimental extension that grabs data from a search site,
> and then sends that to one of his own web servers, which
> then creates a GEDCOM for immediate download. Bob operates a
> couple of popular genealogy sites here in The Netherlands,
> and he already has services that grab data from major index
> sites and send new results from those sites in several
> formats, including GEDCOM and XLS.
>
> Anyway, when we can think of a simple format, like you said,
> like CSV or JSON, maybe XML, so that smart users can create
> Chrome extensions for the sites in their own countries, we
> have a chance to make this work in a simple manner, so that
> the main Gramps developers don't have to create and maintain
> convertors for sites they never use themselves.
>
> I realize that this is not the developer list, but I also
> think that the subject is interesting for more people than
> the core developers like you. That's why I put it here. And
> I also invite you to check http://rootsdev.org/blog/ for more information, and
> even source code of one of the extensions mentioned here.
>
> cheers,
>
> Enno
>
>

enno

Re: Can XML import gramplet used to ADD data to existing person?

Hi Jerome,

I remember the scripts made by Michiel, but until now, I didn't realize that
they were written in javascript, just like Chrome extensions are.

But on the other hand, I also think that it may be a nice idea to use
evernote instead. The reason behind that is that evernote offers web
clippers for many browsers, and an API, so there would be a single interface
between evernote and gramps, so only one plug-in to maintain.

Of course this depends on how many gramps users actually use evernote, and
whether we can really develop something appropriate.

regards,

Enno

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jerome

Re: Can XML import gramplet used to ADD data to existing person?

Hi Enno,

> But on the other hand, I also think that it may be a nice idea to use
> evernote instead. The reason behind that is that evernote offers web
> clippers for many browsers, and an API, so there would be a single
> interface between evernote and gramps, so only one plug-in to maintain.
> Of course this depends on how many gramps users actually use evernote,
> and whether we can really develop something appropriate.

Notes synchronization?

It is already available with some others programs since many years!
eg, to import/export Notes table or objects into Gramps (via Gramps XML,
(csv*), copies, etc ...) in relation with some hierarchical note taking
applications! (*) export only

http://zim-wiki.org/extras.html
http://www.giuspen.com/cherrytree/
etc ...

OK, not very user friendly, but multiplatform with minor effort!

regards,

Jérôme

Le 25/10/2012 10:20, Enno Borgsteede a écrit :

> Hi Jerome,
>
> I remember the scripts made by Michiel, but until now, I didn't realize
> that they were written in javascript, just like Chrome extensions are.
>
> But on the other hand, I also think that it may be a nice idea to use
> evernote instead. The reason behind that is that evernote offers web
> clippers for many browsers, and an API, so there would be a single
> interface between evernote and gramps, so only one plug-in to maintain.
>
> Of course this depends on how many gramps users actually use evernote,
> and whether we can really develop something appropriate.
>
> regards,
>
> Enno
>
>