Change of surname

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Change of surname

Peter Flynn
What's the best way to record a change of surname? I have an ancestor
born an O'Flynn who emigrated to Scotland before the Famine, and
eventually dropped the O' off his name and turned Protestant (we
suspect, in order to marry the mill owner's daughter :-) So his name at
birth was O'Flynn, but the name on his marriage certificate is just
Flynn. We don't have (and don't know of) any legal document or process
recording the change.

P


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Re: Change of surname

Philip Weiss
I enter multiple names (along with types and date ranges used) on the names tab for a person.

If I have a specific name change event (like a court decree or where the naturalization order includes a name change) I will create a custom event for that as well.

Phil.

On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 2:50 PM Peter Flynn <[hidden email]> wrote:
What's the best way to record a change of surname? I have an ancestor
born an O'Flynn who emigrated to Scotland before the Famine, and
eventually dropped the O' off his name and turned Protestant (we
suspect, in order to marry the mill owner's daughter :-) So his name at
birth was O'Flynn, but the name on his marriage certificate is just
Flynn. We don't have (and don't know of) any legal document or process
recording the change.

P


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Re: Change of surname

Michel Vuijlsteke
In reply to this post by Peter Flynn
I would just record an alternate name and source it. I pretty often encounter many variations of last names and first names, and that's the way I do it. 

On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 at 23:49, Peter Flynn <[hidden email]> wrote:
What's the best way to record a change of surname? I have an ancestor
born an O'Flynn who emigrated to Scotland before the Famine, and
eventually dropped the O' off his name and turned Protestant (we
suspect, in order to marry the mill owner's daughter :-) So his name at
birth was O'Flynn, but the name on his marriage certificate is just
Flynn. We don't have (and don't know of) any legal document or process
recording the change.

P


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Re: Change of surname

nbullett
In reply to this post by Peter Flynn
I put the main "known as" name as their main name, in this case probably
Flynn, and O'Flynn as an alternate name.
Funnily enough, I have a case where an O'Callaghan was changed to Callaghan
on immigrating to England. The familiy story is that the O was dropped in
the Irish sea.
Also, it was said to be done to appear less Irish!
Not sure dropping an O fooled anyone



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Re: Change of surname

Peter Flynn
On 28/11/2018 08:34, nbullett wrote:
> I put the main "known as" name as their main name, in this case probably
> Flynn, and O'Flynn as an alternate name.
> Funnily enough, I have a case where an O'Callaghan was changed to Callaghan
> on immigrating to England. The familiy story is that the O was dropped in
> the Irish sea.
> Also, it was said to be done to appear less Irish!
> Not sure dropping an O fooled anyone

There are many Irish surnames with an anglicised form with and without
the O' or Mac or Mc, some of which have been around for a very long
time, long enough to cease being recognised as Irish (Byrne, Doyle,
Lynch, Murray, Moore, and others; although perhaps Mrs Doyle from the
Father Ted series has changed that one :-)

I think it is accepted that the family without the prefix may originally
have done it along with changing adherence from Roman Catholicism to
Church of England for reasons of social acceptance or marriage. There
may be research on this with data but it's not my field, although this
particular ancestor had two church marriage ceremonies, one RC and the
other CoE.

While Callaghan wouldn't "fool" anyone, I don't think that would have
been the objective. It would, however, certainly be understood as a move
towards anglicisation — Jim Callaghan was PM of GB 1976–79 and no-one
called him out as a foreigner either here or there.

Nowadays, fortunately, no-one gives a damn one way or another, socially,
except possibly genealogists searching for one version unaware that the
individual is lurking in there under the other version.

P


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Re: Change of surname

nbullett
Sorry, I should have explained, this particular ancestor was a grandparent,
so alive until the 60s I think and came to England in the 1910s, and
dropping the O to appear less foreign was definitely the reason he gave for
it.



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Re: Change of surname

Peter Flynn
On 28/11/2018 10:51, nbullett wrote:
> Sorry, I should have explained, this particular ancestor was a grandparent,
> so alive until the 60s I think and came to England in the 1910s, and
> dropping the O to appear less foreign was definitely the reason he gave for
> it.

Interesting...thanks. Always good to have a personal confirmation. I was
thinking of more recent times...yes in 1910 it could have been a wise
move for acceptance.

P


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Re: Change of surname

Dave Scheipers
In reply to this post by nbullett
I have a record of a man leaving Ireland (1911) and the ship manifest
lists him as Keefe. When the ship arrived in Boston, the manifest of
arriving passengers lists him as O'Keefe. The only instance of that
version of his surname. Unsure who made the change because no other
names were altered on the departing and arriving manifests.
On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 5:52 AM nbullett <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Sorry, I should have explained, this particular ancestor was a grandparent,
> so alive until the 60s I think and came to England in the 1910s, and
> dropping the O to appear less foreign was definitely the reason he gave for
> it.
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://gramps.1791082.n4.nabble.com/GRAMPS-User-f1807095.html
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
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Re: Change of surname

GRAMPS - User mailing list
In reply to this post by Peter Flynn
I have frequently the case for other reasons. In the XVIIth and XVIIIth
centuries, society was essentially oral based. Odinary people has no
written documents to ascertain their names (and even given names!). When
events were to be recorded (birth, marriage, death and others), priests
wrote what they heard and unserstood. The issus was worse when the
priest came from a county some distance away. The "name tank" was
different and he could not use his experience to transcribe the name.
You must also account for accent variation.

All in all, I can have one form of name per event (birth, marriage,
children's baptism and death, death).

My convention is to use birth name in an individual record (meaning
children may bear a different form of the name). I always have a summary
note of the parish or civil record in an event, so that I can track name
variation. I also keep these variations as "alternate names" and I group
the spellings under a common "standardised" name (usually the "modern"
form).

This may not be the most efficient way to go, so I'd like to learn
through other answers.

ajl


Le 27/11/2018 à 23:48, Peter Flynn a écrit :

> What's the best way to record a change of surname? I have an ancestor
> born an O'Flynn who emigrated to Scotland before the Famine, and
> eventually dropped the O' off his name and turned Protestant (we
> suspect, in order to marry the mill owner's daughter :-) So his name at
> birth was O'Flynn, but the name on his marriage certificate is just
> Flynn. We don't have (and don't know of) any legal document or process
> recording the change.
>
> P
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
> https://gramps-project.org



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Re: Change of surname

victorengel
In reply to this post by Philip Weiss
This is actually the main reason I use Gramps. My mother's ancestors are Norwegian, and until 1923 when a law was passed that everyone had to have a family name, most did not. Instead, they had a patronymic, which is simply a contraction of the father's name with -sen appended, and farm names. Either or both can be used as surname. While it's not common for people to change fathers (it does happen), it was not uncommon to change farms. Additionally, a small farm could be part of a larger farm and either or both names could be used. I don't know of any software that facilitates entering such names better than Gramps.

Victor

On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 5:03 PM Philip Weiss <[hidden email]> wrote:
I enter multiple names (along with types and date ranges used) on the names tab for a person.

If I have a specific name change event (like a court decree or where the naturalization order includes a name change) I will create a custom event for that as well.

Phil.

On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 2:50 PM Peter Flynn <[hidden email]> wrote:
What's the best way to record a change of surname? I have an ancestor
born an O'Flynn who emigrated to Scotland before the Famine, and
eventually dropped the O' off his name and turned Protestant (we
suspect, in order to marry the mill owner's daughter :-) So his name at
birth was O'Flynn, but the name on his marriage certificate is just
Flynn. We don't have (and don't know of) any legal document or process
recording the change.

P


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Re: Change of surname

Peter Merchant
In reply to this post by Dave Scheipers
On 28/11/2018 12:54, Dave Scheipers wrote:
> I have a record of a man leaving Ireland (1911) and the ship manifest
> lists him as Keefe. When the ship arrived in Boston, the manifest of
> arriving passengers lists him as O'Keefe. The only instance of that
> version of his surname. Unsure who made the change because no other
> names were altered on the departing and arriving manifests.
> On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 5:52 AM nbullett <[hidden email]> wrote:

It was noted in the Daily Express today that when The O'Gradys came to England they added the O'. Before that they were Grady.

It's funny the way that people pronounce names. At the turn of the 18th Century, my family name was recorded as Marchant, It is now Merchant, but so often I am still called Mr. MArchant.


Cheers,

PeterM


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