Citing online sources

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Citing online sources

victorengel
What is the recommended way to cite online sources in Gramps? Citations and Sources don't seem to have fields for URLs. The People view has a tab for Internet, but that doesn't seem to be designed to work with sources and citations. Media path seems like a possibility, but the path seems to be set up for local media rather than online media. The repositories view has a field for home URL, but that is way too generic.

Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but to me it looks like there's not logical place to enter an online URL for a specific source.

Victor

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Re: Citing online sources

victorengel
I should have included an example. Here is a typical one. 


Probably the majority of my citations will be to documents like this, which are online and hosted by the Norwegian government. Each page in a scanned document is given a permanent URL, and that is what I've primarily been using. It looks like they are imported into Gramps as notes, so the URLs are there, but they are not hot links, like the links on the Internet tab of the People view are.

Of course, the citation would include the details in the information tab at the page that comes up when you follow the link, but without a direct link, someone looking at the citation may have to do a lot of browsing to find the particular page. Much better would be to have an active URL as part of the citation.

Victor

On Thu, Jul 26, 2018 at 11:49 AM, Victor Engel <[hidden email]> wrote:
What is the recommended way to cite online sources in Gramps? Citations and Sources don't seem to have fields for URLs. The People view has a tab for Internet, but that doesn't seem to be designed to work with sources and citations. Media path seems like a possibility, but the path seems to be set up for local media rather than online media. The repositories view has a field for home URL, but that is way too generic.

Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but to me it looks like there's not logical place to enter an online URL for a specific source.

Victor


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Re: Citing online sources

Ron Johnson

I put the URLs in a note attached to the Citation.

On 07/26/2018 12:05 PM, Victor Engel wrote:
I should have included an example. Here is a typical one. 


Probably the majority of my citations will be to documents like this, which are online and hosted by the Norwegian government. Each page in a scanned document is given a permanent URL, and that is what I've primarily been using. It looks like they are imported into Gramps as notes, so the URLs are there, but they are not hot links, like the links on the Internet tab of the People view are.

Of course, the citation would include the details in the information tab at the page that comes up when you follow the link, but without a direct link, someone looking at the citation may have to do a lot of browsing to find the particular page. Much better would be to have an active URL as part of the citation.

Victor

On Thu, Jul 26, 2018 at 11:49 AM, Victor Engel <[hidden email]> wrote:
What is the recommended way to cite online sources in Gramps? Citations and Sources don't seem to have fields for URLs. The People view has a tab for Internet, but that doesn't seem to be designed to work with sources and citations. Media path seems like a possibility, but the path seems to be set up for local media rather than online media. The repositories view has a field for home URL, but that is way too generic.

Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but to me it looks like there's not logical place to enter an online URL for a specific source.

Victor



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NdK
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Re: Citing online sources

NdK
Il 26/07/2018 19:27, Ron Johnson ha scritto:

> I put the URLs in a note attached to the Citation.
I usually download the image and reference the "original" document,
possibly leaving as a note the site where I downloaded it from (often
it's not possible to "hotlink" a certain page).

BYtE,
 Diego


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Re: Citing online sources

Oliver Lehmann
In reply to this post by victorengel
Hi,

For the citation "Page 75" I would create the source
"Churchbook Finnås prestegjeld, 1881-1894". And then I would add two
Locations for that source. First location would be "Arkivverket  
Digitalarkivet"
and the second one would be where the real book is located (would need
some digging up). The later one is imho the more important for other
people than you which might take a look at your tree in lets say 20
years where the current URL might no longer be valid or the whole page
is down or.....the real book is hopefully still there and with that
it might be possible to find the new location in the WWW.

I don't store any URLs at all - URLs are only valid for a short time.

Just remember what URLs are still working today from the 90s.... not much.

Best regards,
Oliver


Victor Engel <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I should have included an example. Here is a typical one.
>
> https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/6994/62
>
> Probably the majority of my citations will be to documents like this, which
> are online and hosted by the Norwegian government. Each page in a scanned
> document is given a permanent URL, and that is what I've primarily been
> using. It looks like they are imported into Gramps as notes, so the URLs
> are there, but they are not hot links, like the links on the Internet tab
> of the People view are.
>
> Of course, the citation would include the details in the information tab at
> the page that comes up when you follow the link, but without a direct link,
> someone looking at the citation may have to do a lot of browsing to find
> the particular page. Much better would be to have an active URL as part of
> the citation.
>
> Victor
>
> On Thu, Jul 26, 2018 at 11:49 AM, Victor Engel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> What is the recommended way to cite online sources in Gramps? Citations
>> and Sources don't seem to have fields for URLs. The People view has a tab
>> for Internet, but that doesn't seem to be designed to work with sources and
>> citations. Media path seems like a possibility, but the path seems to be
>> set up for local media rather than online media. The repositories view has
>> a field for home URL, but that is way too generic.
>>
>> Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but to me it looks like there's not
>> logical place to enter an online URL for a specific source.
>>
>> Victor
>>



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Re: Citing online sources

Michael Stockhausen
In reply to this post by Ron Johnson
I put the URL in the volume/page field.
I agree that it would be preferable to have a dedicated field for a direct link, instead of having to copy/paste the URL from this field (or any other) into the browser.
 
My volume/page information in such case is usually quite long: I also include some information on how to reach the specific record from the main website in case the link no longer works, and I also mention where the digital image was taken (e.g. State Archive) in case the website disappears completely some day.
 
 
Michael
 
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2018 7:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] Citing online sources
 

I put the URLs in a note attached to the Citation.

On 07/26/2018 12:05 PM, Victor Engel wrote:
I should have included an example. Here is a typical one. 
 
 
Probably the majority of my citations will be to documents like this, which are online and hosted by the Norwegian government. Each page in a scanned document is given a permanent URL, and that is what I've primarily been using. It looks like they are imported into Gramps as notes, so the URLs are there, but they are not hot links, like the links on the Internet tab of the People view are.
 
Of course, the citation would include the details in the information tab at the page that comes up when you follow the link, but without a direct link, someone looking at the citation may have to do a lot of browsing to find the particular page. Much better would be to have an active URL as part of the citation.
 
Victor
 
On Thu, Jul 26, 2018 at 11:49 AM, Victor Engel <[hidden email]> wrote:
What is the recommended way to cite online sources in Gramps? Citations and Sources don't seem to have fields for URLs. The People view has a tab for Internet, but that doesn't seem to be designed to work with sources and citations. Media path seems like a possibility, but the path seems to be set up for local media rather than online media. The repositories view has a field for home URL, but that is way too generic.
 
Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but to me it looks like there's not logical place to enter an online URL for a specific source.
 
Victor



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Re: Citing online sources

Philip Weiss
In reply to this post by Ron Johnson

I add the URLs only parenthetically, because sites go away and change their URLs when they don't go away.

I don't know the scheme for Norwegian documents, but for the Swedish ones I have a source for each church book. I cut and paste the church book title from ArkivDigital, which generally consists of the parish name, type of book (baptism, death, etc.) and years covered. Then for each individual item cited, I paste the ArkivDigital full citation along with a line number, with the URL in parentheses. The key part of the citation is not the URL, but the page number within the church book/film reel. That part allows me to find the page in the Swedish archives version of the church book if I want to.

So for example:

Source: Sweden, Älvsborg, Åmåls sfs, Moving In Records (1916-1934)
Citation (page): Åmåls stadsförsamling (P) B:7 (1916-1934) Image 7 / page 6 (http://www.arkivdigital.se/aid/show/v83852.b7.s6 : accessed 9 Mar 2018), line 135

I don't technically need the "Åmåls stadsförsamling (P) B:7 (1916-1934)" on the citation, but it's a cut and paste from ArkivDigital, and it doesn't hurt so I leave it in.

Your mileage may vary.

Phil

On Jul 26 2018, at 10:27 am, Ron Johnson <[hidden email]> wrote:



I put the URLs in a note attached to the Citation.

On 07/26/2018 12:05 PM, Victor Engel wrote:

I should have included an example. Here is a typical one. 


Probably the majority of my citations will be to documents like this, which are online and hosted by the Norwegian government. Each page in a scanned document is given a permanent URL, and that is what I've primarily been using. It looks like they are imported into Gramps as notes, so the URLs are there, but they are not hot links, like the links on the Internet tab of the People view are.

Of course, the citation would include the details in the information tab at the page that comes up when you follow the link, but without a direct link, someone looking at the citation may have to do a lot of browsing to find the particular page. Much better would be to have an active URL as part of the citation.

Victor

On Thu, Jul 26, 2018 at 11:49 AM, Victor Engel <[hidden email]> wrote:
What is the recommended way to cite online sources in Gramps? Citations and Sources don't seem to have fields for URLs. The People view has a tab for Internet, but that doesn't seem to be designed to work with sources and citations. Media path seems like a possibility, but the path seems to be set up for local media rather than online media. The repositories view has a field for home URL, but that is way too generic.

Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but to me it looks like there's not logical place to enter an online URL for a specific source.

Victor



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Re: Citing online sources

Oliver Lehmann
In reply to this post by Oliver Lehmann
I must correct myself.

For online "archives" I store the URL of the first page of the book as
signature at the archive entry of the source. Just the citation alone
has no URL attached. But with the URL to the whole book it is easy to
find "page 75" :)

Best Regards,
Oliver


Oliver Lehmann <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> For the citation "Page 75" I would create the source
> "Churchbook Finnås prestegjeld, 1881-1894". And then I would add two
> Locations for that source. First location would be "Arkivverket  
> Digitalarkivet"
> and the second one would be where the real book is located (would need
> some digging up). The later one is imho the more important for other
> people than you which might take a look at your tree in lets say 20
> years where the current URL might no longer be valid or the whole page
> is down or.....the real book is hopefully still there and with that
> it might be possible to find the new location in the WWW.
>
> I don't store any URLs at all - URLs are only valid for a short time.
>
> Just remember what URLs are still working today from the 90s.... not much.
>
> Best regards,
> Oliver
>
>
> Victor Engel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I should have included an example. Here is a typical one.
>>
>> https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/6994/62
>>
>> Probably the majority of my citations will be to documents like this, which
>> are online and hosted by the Norwegian government. Each page in a scanned
>> document is given a permanent URL, and that is what I've primarily been
>> using. It looks like they are imported into Gramps as notes, so the URLs
>> are there, but they are not hot links, like the links on the Internet tab
>> of the People view are.
>>
>> Of course, the citation would include the details in the information tab at
>> the page that comes up when you follow the link, but without a direct link,
>> someone looking at the citation may have to do a lot of browsing to find
>> the particular page. Much better would be to have an active URL as part of
>> the citation.
>>
>> Victor
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 26, 2018 at 11:49 AM, Victor Engel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> What is the recommended way to cite online sources in Gramps? Citations
>>> and Sources don't seem to have fields for URLs. The People view has a tab
>>> for Internet, but that doesn't seem to be designed to work with sources and
>>> citations. Media path seems like a possibility, but the path seems to be
>>> set up for local media rather than online media. The repositories view has
>>> a field for home URL, but that is way too generic.
>>>
>>> Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but to me it looks like there's not
>>> logical place to enter an online URL for a specific source.
>>>
>>> Victor
>>>



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Re: Citing online sources

J. Allen Crider-2
In reply to this post by victorengel
It is easy to include a link in any note.  Simply select the text that
you want to be a link, and click on the Link icon in the formatting bar
(on my system it looks like a greater than symbol with a dot to the left
of it).  That will bring up the link editor where you can link to the
internet or to another object in your data base.  Here is a page from my
website that has an example:
http://www.cridermcdowellfamily.com/genealogy/ppl/a/8/ce970d028797092dc389bd7918a.html
The event note for the death event is a link to my great-grandfather's
obituary on a site that has a large number of obituaries from the area
where my mother grew up.  I haven't been as consistent with other sites,
but I try to do this with all of the obituaries I use from that site
(currently about 2500) because the owners of the site have requested
that people use links rather than copies of the scanned documents on
their site.

Allen Crider

On 07/26/2018 12:05 PM, Victor Engel wrote:

> I should have included an example. Here is a typical one.
>
> https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/6994/62
>
> Probably the majority of my citations will be to documents like this,
> which are online and hosted by the Norwegian government. Each page in a
> scanned document is given a permanent URL, and that is what I've
> primarily been using. It looks like they are imported into Gramps as
> notes, so the URLs are there, but they are not hot links, like the links
> on the Internet tab of the People view are.
>
> Of course, the citation would include the details in the information tab
> at the page that comes up when you follow the link, but without a direct
> link, someone looking at the citation may have to do a lot of browsing
> to find the particular page. Much better would be to have an active URL
> as part of the citation.
>
> Victor
>
> On Thu, Jul 26, 2018 at 11:49 AM, Victor Engel <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>     What is the recommended way to cite online sources in Gramps?
>     Citations and Sources don't seem to have fields for URLs. The People
>     view has a tab for Internet, but that doesn't seem to be designed to
>     work with sources and citations. Media path seems like a
>     possibility, but the path seems to be set up for local media rather
>     than online media. The repositories view has a field for home URL,
>     but that is way too generic.
>
>     Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but to me it looks like there's
>     not logical place to enter an online URL for a specific source.
>
>     Victor
>
>
>
>
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Re: Citing online sources

Michael Stockhausen
In reply to this post by Oliver Lehmann



>For online "archives" I store the URL of the first page of the book as
>signature at the archive entry of the source.

Unfortunately, this information is not provided in reports, like the full
person report


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Re: Citing online sources

Simon C. Tremblay
In reply to this post by victorengel
I don't have access to Gramps right now, but here's what I do for FamilySearch:

1 - Create a repository for the web site. (FamilySearch.org)
2 - Create a source for the collection (exemple Québec, registres paroissiaux catholiques, 1621-1979 for https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/1321742)
3 - Create a citation for the image I found. FamilySearch has a citation in the Information tab under an image.  It looks like this:

Citation: "Québec, registres paroissiaux catholiques, 1621-1979," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-899M-YWG9?cc=1321742&wc=9RL7-MNL%3A15241501%2C15241502%2C15241503 : 16 July 2014), Lachine > Saints-Anges-de-Lachine > Baptêmes, mariages, sépultures 1676-1790 > image 415 of 1302; Archives Nationales du Quebec (National Archives of Quebec), Montreal.

3a- From that text blob, I copy paste " Lachine > Saints-Anges-de-Lachine > Baptêmes, mariages, sépultures 1676-1790 > image 415 of 1302 " into the page section of the citation. That bread crumb is enough to find the image starting from the collection home page.
3b- This URL part " https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-899M-YWG9 " refers to the unique image; I paste it into an attribute, URL.
3c- I downlaod the image in a folder based on the type of document. i then add the image itself to the media tab of the citation.

Once I'm home, I can describe all the fields I fill out in the repository and  source entries.  I can also get more examples if that can help you.

Simon


On Thu, 26 Jul 2018 at 13:07, Victor Engel <[hidden email]> wrote:
I should have included an example. Here is a typical one. 


Probably the majority of my citations will be to documents like this, which are online and hosted by the Norwegian government. Each page in a scanned document is given a permanent URL, and that is what I've primarily been using. It looks like they are imported into Gramps as notes, so the URLs are there, but they are not hot links, like the links on the Internet tab of the People view are.

Of course, the citation would include the details in the information tab at the page that comes up when you follow the link, but without a direct link, someone looking at the citation may have to do a lot of browsing to find the particular page. Much better would be to have an active URL as part of the citation.

Victor

On Thu, Jul 26, 2018 at 11:49 AM, Victor Engel <[hidden email]> wrote:
What is the recommended way to cite online sources in Gramps? Citations and Sources don't seem to have fields for URLs. The People view has a tab for Internet, but that doesn't seem to be designed to work with sources and citations. Media path seems like a possibility, but the path seems to be set up for local media rather than online media. The repositories view has a field for home URL, but that is way too generic.

Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but to me it looks like there's not logical place to enter an online URL for a specific source.

Victor

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Re: Citing online sources

victorengel
In reply to this post by victorengel
Since the data I'm currently working with came from an ancestry.com export, there are tons of duplicates. I just noticed a Gramps utility to merge duplicate citations. Great. I tried it, hoping it would do what I wanted, which would include merging the notes attached to the citations. Well, it came close, but it seems that notes related to the duplicate citations did not get merged. So now I have duplicate notes for each citation that was a duplicate. Is there a way to clean this up? Did I perform the merge wrong? When finished, it said it did something over 17000 merges.

Victor

On Thu, Jul 26, 2018 at 11:49 AM, Victor Engel <[hidden email]> wrote:
What is the recommended way to cite online sources in Gramps? Citations and Sources don't seem to have fields for URLs. The People view has a tab for Internet, but that doesn't seem to be designed to work with sources and citations. Media path seems like a possibility, but the path seems to be set up for local media rather than online media. The repositories view has a field for home URL, but that is way too generic.

Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but to me it looks like there's not logical place to enter an online URL for a specific source.

Victor


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Re: Citing online sources

GRAMPS - User mailing list
In reply to this post by Oliver Lehmann



Hi All

Personally I never put in a URL they are nothing more than ethereal
vapourware a recent piece of work on a family history website showed me
at least 10% of the URLs no longer worked and all are subject to the
vagaries of the owner of the website not necessarily the same as the
owner of the source.
Why would you want to create a database where you continuously have to
check the data to ensure a pointer to a source still takes you where it
should and not a p..n site (and yes it did happen).

No thanks


Regards
Phil
MLFHS 12583
Dumfries
On 26/07/2018 19:07, Oliver Lehmann wrote:

> I must correct myself.
>
> For online "archives" I store the URL of the first page of the book as
> signature at the archive entry of the source. Just the citation alone
> has no URL attached. But with the URL to the whole book it is easy to
> find "page 75" :)
>
> Best Regards,
> Oliver
>
>
> Oliver Lehmann <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> For the citation "Page 75" I would create the source
>> "Churchbook Finnås prestegjeld, 1881-1894". And then I would add two
>> Locations for that source. First location would be "Arkivverket
>> Digitalarkivet"
>> and the second one would be where the real book is located (would need
>> some digging up). The later one is imho the more important for other
>> people than you which might take a look at your tree in lets say 20
>> years where the current URL might no longer be valid or the whole page
>> is down or.....the real book is hopefully still there and with that
>> it might be possible to find the new location in the WWW.
>>
>> I don't store any URLs at all - URLs are only valid for a short time.
>>
>> Just remember what URLs are still working today from the 90s.... not
>> much.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Oliver
>>
>>
>> Victor Engel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> I should have included an example. Here is a typical one.
>>>
>>> https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/6994/62
>>>
>>> Probably the majority of my citations will be to documents like this,
>>> which
>>> are online and hosted by the Norwegian government. Each page in a
>>> scanned
>>> document is given a permanent URL, and that is what I've primarily been
>>> using. It looks like they are imported into Gramps as notes, so the URLs
>>> are there, but they are not hot links, like the links on the Internet
>>> tab
>>> of the People view are.
>>>
>>> Of course, the citation would include the details in the information
>>> tab at
>>> the page that comes up when you follow the link, but without a direct
>>> link,
>>> someone looking at the citation may have to do a lot of browsing to find
>>> the particular page. Much better would be to have an active URL as
>>> part of
>>> the citation.
>>>
>>> Victor
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 26, 2018 at 11:49 AM, Victor Engel <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> What is the recommended way to cite online sources in Gramps? Citations
>>>> and Sources don't seem to have fields for URLs. The People view has
>>>> a tab
>>>> for Internet, but that doesn't seem to be designed to work with
>>>> sources and
>>>> citations. Media path seems like a possibility, but the path seems
>>>> to be
>>>> set up for local media rather than online media. The repositories
>>>> view has
>>>> a field for home URL, but that is way too generic.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but to me it looks like there's
>>>> not
>>>> logical place to enter an online URL for a specific source.
>>>>
>>>> Victor
>>>>
>
>
>
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Re: Citing online sources

victorengel
Please note that I'm referring specifically here to the Norwegian digital archive, which has been designed from the start to have permanent reference URLs. Recently, they redesigned their website with a different UI and different URL pattern, but the old URLs still work, because they were designed from the start to be permanent. In online genealogy forums, the community always prefers such links to uploaded images. There are several reasons for this. Different people may prefer different sizes of images. Additionally, with a URL, it is possible to navigate to previous and subsequent pages, which is not possible with a static image. And, yes, that is often useful to do.

Will I take snapshots of these pages? Of course. But having the source URLs is definitely useful.

Victor

On Thu, Jul 26, 2018 at 1:39 PM, phil wharram via Gramps-users <[hidden email]> wrote:



Hi All

Personally I never put in a URL they are nothing more than ethereal vapourware a recent piece of work on a family history website showed me at least 10% of the URLs no longer worked and all are subject to the vagaries of the owner of the website not necessarily the same as the owner of the source.
Why would you want to create a database where you continuously have to check the data to ensure a pointer to a source still takes you where it should and not a p..n site (and yes it did happen).

No thanks


Regards
Phil
MLFHS 12583
Dumfries
On 26/07/2018 19:07, Oliver Lehmann wrote:
I must correct myself.

For online "archives" I store the URL of the first page of the book as
signature at the archive entry of the source. Just the citation alone
has no URL attached. But with the URL to the whole book it is easy to
find "page 75" :)

Best Regards,
Oliver


Oliver Lehmann <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

For the citation "Page 75" I would create the source
"Churchbook Finnås prestegjeld, 1881-1894". And then I would add two
Locations for that source. First location would be "Arkivverket Digitalarkivet"
and the second one would be where the real book is located (would need
some digging up). The later one is imho the more important for other
people than you which might take a look at your tree in lets say 20
years where the current URL might no longer be valid or the whole page
is down or.....the real book is hopefully still there and with that
it might be possible to find the new location in the WWW.

I don't store any URLs at all - URLs are only valid for a short time.

Just remember what URLs are still working today from the 90s.... not much.

Best regards,
Oliver


Victor Engel <[hidden email]> wrote:

I should have included an example. Here is a typical one.

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/6994/62

Probably the majority of my citations will be to documents like this, which
are online and hosted by the Norwegian government. Each page in a scanned
document is given a permanent URL, and that is what I've primarily been
using. It looks like they are imported into Gramps as notes, so the URLs
are there, but they are not hot links, like the links on the Internet tab
of the People view are.

Of course, the citation would include the details in the information tab at
the page that comes up when you follow the link, but without a direct link,
someone looking at the citation may have to do a lot of browsing to find
the particular page. Much better would be to have an active URL as part of
the citation.

Victor

On Thu, Jul 26, 2018 at 11:49 AM, Victor Engel <[hidden email]> wrote:

What is the recommended way to cite online sources in Gramps? Citations
and Sources don't seem to have fields for URLs. The People view has a tab
for Internet, but that doesn't seem to be designed to work with sources and
citations. Media path seems like a possibility, but the path seems to be
set up for local media rather than online media. The repositories view has
a field for home URL, but that is way too generic.

Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but to me it looks like there's not
logical place to enter an online URL for a specific source.

Victor




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Re: Citing online sources

victorengel
In reply to this post by J. Allen Crider-2
There doesn't seem to be any such link icon in the notes editor in the version I am using. I see italic, bold, underline, font color, and background color. Plus a dropdown (that's currently empty - I suppose it could have fonts in it).

On Thu, Jul 26, 2018 at 1:13 PM, J. Allen Crider <[hidden email]> wrote:
It is easy to include a link in any note.  Simply select the text that you want to be a link, and click on the Link icon in the formatting bar (on my system it looks like a greater than symbol with a dot to the left of it).  That will bring up the link editor where you can link to the internet or to another object in your data base.  Here is a page from my website that has an example: http://www.cridermcdowellfamily.com/genealogy/ppl/a/8/ce970d028797092dc389bd7918a.html
The event note for the death event is a link to my great-grandfather's obituary on a site that has a large number of obituaries from the area where my mother grew up.  I haven't been as consistent with other sites, but I try to do this with all of the obituaries I use from that site (currently about 2500) because the owners of the site have requested that people use links rather than copies of the scanned documents on their site.

Allen Crider

On 07/26/2018 12:05 PM, Victor Engel wrote:
I should have included an example. Here is a typical one.

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/6994/62

Probably the majority of my citations will be to documents like this, which are online and hosted by the Norwegian government. Each page in a scanned document is given a permanent URL, and that is what I've primarily been using. It looks like they are imported into Gramps as notes, so the URLs are there, but they are not hot links, like the links on the Internet tab of the People view are.

Of course, the citation would include the details in the information tab at the page that comes up when you follow the link, but without a direct link, someone looking at the citation may have to do a lot of browsing to find the particular page. Much better would be to have an active URL as part of the citation.

Victor

On Thu, Jul 26, 2018 at 11:49 AM, Victor Engel <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:

    What is the recommended way to cite online sources in Gramps?
    Citations and Sources don't seem to have fields for URLs. The People
    view has a tab for Internet, but that doesn't seem to be designed to
    work with sources and citations. Media path seems like a
    possibility, but the path seems to be set up for local media rather
    than online media. The repositories view has a field for home URL,
    but that is way too generic.

    Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but to me it looks like there's
    not logical place to enter an online URL for a specific source.

    Victor




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Re: Citing online sources

Ron Johnson
In reply to this post by GRAMPS - User mailing list

No matter what Norway says now, it's naive to think that it'll be like this in 20 years.

And even if Norway does keep those links active 20 years from now, there's no guarantee that anyone else will.  Get in the habit of saving images, and you'll be glad in a few years.

On 07/26/2018 01:52 PM, Victor Engel wrote:
Please note that I'm referring specifically here to the Norwegian digital archive, which has been designed from the start to have permanent reference URLs. Recently, they redesigned their website with a different UI and different URL pattern, but the old URLs still work, because they were designed from the start to be permanent. In online genealogy forums, the community always prefers such links to uploaded images. There are several reasons for this. Different people may prefer different sizes of images. Additionally, with a URL, it is possible to navigate to previous and subsequent pages, which is not possible with a static image. And, yes, that is often useful to do.

Will I take snapshots of these pages? Of course. But having the source URLs is definitely useful.

Victor

On Thu, Jul 26, 2018 at 1:39 PM, phil wharram via Gramps-users <[hidden email]> wrote:



Hi All

Personally I never put in a URL they are nothing more than ethereal vapourware a recent piece of work on a family history website showed me at least 10% of the URLs no longer worked and all are subject to the vagaries of the owner of the website not necessarily the same as the owner of the source.
Why would you want to create a database where you continuously have to check the data to ensure a pointer to a source still takes you where it should and not a p..n site (and yes it did happen).

No thanks


Regards
Phil
MLFHS 12583
Dumfries
On 26/07/2018 19:07, Oliver Lehmann wrote:
I must correct myself.

For online "archives" I store the URL of the first page of the book as
signature at the archive entry of the source. Just the citation alone
has no URL attached. But with the URL to the whole book it is easy to
find "page 75" :)

Best Regards,
Oliver


Oliver Lehmann <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

For the citation "Page 75" I would create the source
"Churchbook Finnås prestegjeld, 1881-1894". And then I would add two
Locations for that source. First location would be "Arkivverket Digitalarkivet"
and the second one would be where the real book is located (would need
some digging up). The later one is imho the more important for other
people than you which might take a look at your tree in lets say 20
years where the current URL might no longer be valid or the whole page
is down or.....the real book is hopefully still there and with that
it might be possible to find the new location in the WWW.

I don't store any URLs at all - URLs are only valid for a short time.

Just remember what URLs are still working today from the 90s.... not much.

Best regards,
Oliver


Victor Engel <[hidden email]> wrote:

I should have included an example. Here is a typical one.

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/6994/62

Probably the majority of my citations will be to documents like this, which
are online and hosted by the Norwegian government. Each page in a scanned
document is given a permanent URL, and that is what I've primarily been
using. It looks like they are imported into Gramps as notes, so the URLs
are there, but they are not hot links, like the links on the Internet tab
of the People view are.

Of course, the citation would include the details in the information tab at
the page that comes up when you follow the link, but without a direct link,
someone looking at the citation may have to do a lot of browsing to find
the particular page. Much better would be to have an active URL as part of
the citation.

Victor

On Thu, Jul 26, 2018 at 11:49 AM, Victor Engel <[hidden email]> wrote:

What is the recommended way to cite online sources in Gramps? Citations
and Sources don't seem to have fields for URLs. The People view has a tab
for Internet, but that doesn't seem to be designed to work with sources and
citations. Media path seems like a possibility, but the path seems to be
set up for local media rather than online media. The repositories view has
a field for home URL, but that is way too generic.

Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but to me it looks like there's not
logical place to enter an online URL for a specific source.

Victor


--
Angular momentum makes the world go 'round.

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Re: Citing online sources

Ron Johnson
In reply to this post by J. Allen Crider-2

Just paste the URL into the note.  Gramps will automatically make it hot.  (At least it does in Linux.)

On 07/26/2018 01:57 PM, Victor Engel wrote:
There doesn't seem to be any such link icon in the notes editor in the version I am using. I see italic, bold, underline, font color, and background color. Plus a dropdown (that's currently empty - I suppose it could have fonts in it).


--
Angular momentum makes the world go 'round.

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Re: Citing online sources

J. Allen Crider-2
In reply to this post by victorengel
It has been in every version that I've used for several years, including
5.0.0 which I just started using yesterday.  On my system, the link icon
is immediately to the right of the background color icon.  I know that
some people have had trouble finding it in the past because their window
size was not wide enough to show all icons, but it showed up if they
made the window wider.

On mine, the order is italic, bold, underline, dropdown for font,
dropdown for font size, undo, redo, font color, background color, link
editor, an empty space, and clear markup.  I've never used Gramps on
anything other than Linux, but I don't recall the icon order changing
going back at least to the 3.x days.

On 07/26/2018 01:57 PM, Victor Engel wrote:

> There doesn't seem to be any such link icon in the notes editor in the
> version I am using. I see italic, bold, underline, font color, and
> background color. Plus a dropdown (that's currently empty - I suppose it
> could have fonts in it).
>
> On Thu, Jul 26, 2018 at 1:13 PM, J. Allen Crider
> <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>     It is easy to include a link in any note.  Simply select the text
>     that you want to be a link, and click on the Link icon in the
>     formatting bar (on my system it looks like a greater than symbol
>     with a dot to the left of it).  That will bring up the link editor
>     where you can link to the internet or to another object in your data
>     base.  Here is a page from my website that has an example:
>     http://www.cridermcdowellfamily.com/genealogy/ppl/a/8/ce970d028797092dc389bd7918a.html
>     <http://www.cridermcdowellfamily.com/genealogy/ppl/a/8/ce970d028797092dc389bd7918a.html>
>     The event note for the death event is a link to my
>     great-grandfather's obituary on a site that has a large number of
>     obituaries from the area where my mother grew up.  I haven't been as
>     consistent with other sites, but I try to do this with all of the
>     obituaries I use from that site (currently about 2500) because the
>     owners of the site have requested that people use links rather than
>     copies of the scanned documents on their site.
>
>     Allen Crider
>
>     On 07/26/2018 12:05 PM, Victor Engel wrote:
>
>         I should have included an example. Here is a typical one.
>
>         https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/6994/62
>         <https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/6994/62>
>
>         Probably the majority of my citations will be to documents like
>         this, which are online and hosted by the Norwegian government.
>         Each page in a scanned document is given a permanent URL, and
>         that is what I've primarily been using. It looks like they are
>         imported into Gramps as notes, so the URLs are there, but they
>         are not hot links, like the links on the Internet tab of the
>         People view are.
>
>         Of course, the citation would include the details in the
>         information tab at the page that comes up when you follow the
>         link, but without a direct link, someone looking at the citation
>         may have to do a lot of browsing to find the particular page.
>         Much better would be to have an active URL as part of the citation.
>
>         Victor
>
>         On Thu, Jul 26, 2018 at 11:49 AM, Victor Engel
>         <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>         <mailto:[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>> wrote:
>
>              What is the recommended way to cite online sources in Gramps?
>              Citations and Sources don't seem to have fields for URLs.
>         The People
>              view has a tab for Internet, but that doesn't seem to be
>         designed to
>              work with sources and citations. Media path seems like a
>              possibility, but the path seems to be set up for local
>         media rather
>              than online media. The repositories view has a field for
>         home URL,
>              but that is way too generic.
>
>              Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but to me it looks
>         like there's
>              not logical place to enter an online URL for a specific source.
>
>              Victor
>
>
>
>
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>         engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>
>
>
>         _______________________________________________
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>         <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users>
>         https://gramps-project.org
>
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>     engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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>     <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users>
>     https://gramps-project.org
>
>

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Re: Citing online sources

victorengel
Ah - you nailed it. Stuff going off the edge of windows seems to be a common issue with Gramps. That's what my previous issue was with the clipboard.

On Thu, Jul 26, 2018 at 2:57 PM, J. Allen Crider <[hidden email]> wrote:
It has been in every version that I've used for several years, including 5.0.0 which I just started using yesterday.  On my system, the link icon is immediately to the right of the background color icon.  I know that some people have had trouble finding it in the past because their window size was not wide enough to show all icons, but it showed up if they made the window wider.

On mine, the order is italic, bold, underline, dropdown for font, dropdown for font size, undo, redo, font color, background color, link editor, an empty space, and clear markup.  I've never used Gramps on anything other than Linux, but I don't recall the icon order changing going back at least to the 3.x days.

On 07/26/2018 01:57 PM, Victor Engel wrote:
There doesn't seem to be any such link icon in the notes editor in the version I am using. I see italic, bold, underline, font color, and background color. Plus a dropdown (that's currently empty - I suppose it could have fonts in it).

On Thu, Jul 26, 2018 at 1:13 PM, J. Allen Crider <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:

    It is easy to include a link in any note.  Simply select the text
    that you want to be a link, and click on the Link icon in the
    formatting bar (on my system it looks like a greater than symbol
    with a dot to the left of it).  That will bring up the link editor
    where you can link to the internet or to another object in your data
    base.  Here is a page from my website that has an example:
    http://www.cridermcdowellfamily.com/genealogy/ppl/a/8/ce970d028797092dc389bd7918a.html
    <http://www.cridermcdowellfamily.com/genealogy/ppl/a/8/ce970d028797092dc389bd7918a.html>
    The event note for the death event is a link to my
    great-grandfather's obituary on a site that has a large number of
    obituaries from the area where my mother grew up.  I haven't been as
    consistent with other sites, but I try to do this with all of the
    obituaries I use from that site (currently about 2500) because the
    owners of the site have requested that people use links rather than
    copies of the scanned documents on their site.

    Allen Crider

    On 07/26/2018 12:05 PM, Victor Engel wrote:

        I should have included an example. Here is a typical one.

        https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/6994/62
        <https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/6994/62>

        Probably the majority of my citations will be to documents like
        this, which are online and hosted by the Norwegian government.
        Each page in a scanned document is given a permanent URL, and
        that is what I've primarily been using. It looks like they are
        imported into Gramps as notes, so the URLs are there, but they
        are not hot links, like the links on the Internet tab of the
        People view are.

        Of course, the citation would include the details in the
        information tab at the page that comes up when you follow the
        link, but without a direct link, someone looking at the citation
        may have to do a lot of browsing to find the particular page.
        Much better would be to have an active URL as part of the citation.

        Victor

        On Thu, Jul 26, 2018 at 11:49 AM, Victor Engel
        <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
        <mailto:[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>> wrote:

             What is the recommended way to cite online sources in Gramps?
             Citations and Sources don't seem to have fields for URLs.
        The People
             view has a tab for Internet, but that doesn't seem to be
        designed to
             work with sources and citations. Media path seems like a
             possibility, but the path seems to be set up for local
        media rather
             than online media. The repositories view has a field for
        home URL,
             but that is way too generic.

             Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but to me it looks
        like there's
             not logical place to enter an online URL for a specific source.

             Victor




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Re: Citing online sources

John W. Kitz-3
In reply to this post by victorengel
Victor,

On 2018-07-26 18:49, Victor Engel wrote:
> What is the recommended way to cite online sources in Gramps?

In the early hours of the day following the 437th anniversary of the
'Act of Abjuration'[1] of what today is referred as The Netherlands, I
don't know if there is such a thing as 'the' recommended way to do this.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act_of_Abjuration

> Citations and Sources don't seem to have fields for URLs.

A way of working that I have adopted over the years (during which time
I've reworked the way in which I store my data a couple of times) is to
add a custom attribute that I named URL to citations.

So far I've only found one downside to this approach and that is that
url's entered in this way, as opposed to entering them in e.g. a note,
is that they do not behave as one would expect of URL's, i.e. they don't
become 'clickable'. But who knows, that may change in some future
release of Gramps.

In addition, I highly recommend you allow yourself ample time to think
about the way you organize your sources and citations and don't hesitate
to re-organize them if you, at some later point in time, conclude that
there is another way of doing it that works better for you.

The more data you have in your database the more you can probably rely
on your own data as opposed to having to rely on external search
facilities. Consequently you'll likely need to rely on the search
functionality of Gramps more and more to find information you previous
stored in your database and for that it is easier, or at least I think
it is, if you've stored your data in some organized manner that makes
sense to both you as well as in the context of the sources and citations
that you most frequently use.

To give an example of what works for me: I've entered the City Archive
of Amsterdam as one of the repositories that I use. To store citations
to the archive of baptism books held in the City Archive of Amsterdam
I've created a source named "Amsterdam - Baptisms" that is linked to an
entry for that archive in the repositories by means of the Repositories
tab of the source.

For each baptism I have two citations, a reference to the cover page of
the baptism book in which the baptism was entered or alternatively, if
one baptism book covers more than one year or if one year is spread
across more than one baptism book, a reference to the first page that
covers the year in which the baptism occurred, as well as a reference to
the page or folio on which the baptism was entered, as follows:

Amsterdam - Baptisms <- Source
     1733 - Baptism Register 021 / Cover <- Citation one
     1733 - Baptism Register 021 / Folio 088v (No. 3) <- Citation two

On each of the two citations I use a custom attribute that I have named
URL in the Attributes tab to enter the URL to the respective scans.
Obviously as time and your research progress chances are you'll have
multiple events, baptisms in this example, that were entered in the same
source or even on the same page of a source or citation. In that case
you need to be able to rely on both the way you've initially decided to
organize your data as well as on the search functionality provided by
Gramps.

> The People
> view has a tab for Internet, but that doesn't seem to be designed to
> work with sources and citations. Media path seems like a possibility,
> but the path seems to be set up for local media rather than online
> media. The repositories view has a field for home URL, but that is way
> too generic.
>
> Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but to me it looks like there's
> not logical place to enter an online URL for a specific source.
>
> Victor

I hope this helps, regards, Jk.

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