Comments to place hierarchy in 4.1.0

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Comments to place hierarchy in 4.1.0

Sebastian Schubert
Hi,

thank you very much for the release of 4.1.0. I'd like to comment on
some details of the place hierarchy.

* I cannot change the place type field to a custom value. I just cannot
click into the field and change the value. I thought custom values are
supported...

* Where is the time dependency of the place hierarchy visible? The place
title only shows one combination. I guess there is no other option for
this due to the limited space. The details view of the place, however,
offers a bit more space. Currently, one combination is shown twice: as
the title and as Location. Still, it might make sense to limit the
combinations here.
The biggest problem, IMHO, is the Place tree. Again, only one
combination is shown, which misleads to the assumption that all other
possibilities do not exist. Here, I would propose to show every possible
combination, at least if the given time windows allows it. Currently,
only the reference tab gives a hint that a place has a "child".

Thanks again,
Sebastian

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Re: Comments to place hierarchy in 4.1.0

Nick Hall
On 20/06/14 20:07, Sebastian Schubert wrote:
> thank you very much for the release of 4.1.0. I'd like to comment on
> some details of the place hierarchy.
>
> * I cannot change the place type field to a custom value. I just cannot
> click into the field and change the value. I thought custom values are
> supported...

Please report this as a bug on the bug tracker.  You should be able to
enter a custom value.


>
> * Where is the time dependency of the place hierarchy visible? The place
> title only shows one combination.

The time dependency is only visible in the "Enclosed By" to in the place
editor.

The place title is constructed by following the first parent place in
the list.


> I guess there is no other option for
> this due to the limited space. The details view of the place, however,
> offers a bit more space. Currently, one combination is shown twice: as
> the title and as Location. Still, it might make sense to limit the
> combinations here.

Feel free to suggest improvements to the user interface.  I don't really
know how people are going to use the new place hierarchy, so user
feedback is appreciated.

I could write a place details gramplet which shows the name and type as
a title, followed by all possible combinations up the hierarchy.


> The biggest problem, IMHO, is the Place tree. Again, only one
> combination is shown, which misleads to the assumption that all other
> possibilities do not exist. Here, I would propose to show every possible
> combination, at least if the given time windows allows it. Currently,
> only the reference tab gives a hint that a place has a "child".

This is a good idea.  It would involve having places appear more than
once in the tree.  At the moment the view code doesn't allow this.  I'll
investigate the options though.

The place selector would also benefit from this.


Nick.


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Re: Comments to place hierarchy in 4.1.0

Sebastian Schubert
Hi Nick,

>> * I cannot change the place type field to a custom value. I just cannot
>> click into the field and change the value. I thought custom values are
>> supported...
>
> Please report this as a bug on the bug tracker.  You should be able to
> enter a custom value.

https://gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=7842

>> I guess there is no other option for
>> this due to the limited space. The details view of the place, however,
>> offers a bit more space. Currently, one combination is shown twice: as
>> the title and as Location. Still, it might make sense to limit the
>> combinations here.
>
> Feel free to suggest improvements to the user interface.  I don't really
> know how people are going to use the new place hierarchy, so user
> feedback is appreciated.
>
> I could write a place details gramplet which shows the name and type as
> a title, followed by all possible combinations up the hierarchy.

This sounds good. I think at least it should be clear that there are
other combinations.

>> The biggest problem, IMHO, is the Place tree. Again, only one
>> combination is shown, which misleads to the assumption that all other
>> possibilities do not exist. Here, I would propose to show every possible
>> combination, at least if the given time windows allows it. Currently,
>> only the reference tab gives a hint that a place has a "child".
>
> This is a good idea.  It would involve having places appear more than
> once in the tree.  At the moment the view code doesn't allow this.  I'll
> investigate the options though.
>
> The place selector would also benefit from this.

I find the structure shown here quite nice:
http://gov.genealogy.net/item/show/STEERSJO83NS
(the lists below the graph). It also shows the date ranges. Of course,
as you said, lower elements would be shown several times in Gramps while
here higher elements are repeated.

Thanks a lot!
Sebastian


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Re: Comments to place hierarchy in 4.1.0

Sebastian Schubert
In reply to this post by Nick Hall
Hi Nick, hi all,

[place hierarchy]
> Feel free to suggest improvements to the user interface.

While implementing the hierarchy in my data, I thought about two more
possible enhancements although I am not sure it actually improves the
situation or makes everything more messy.

GUI related:

For an event, adapt the shown place title for a time-dependent hierarchy
on the event date. Thus, the place's title would change depending on the
event date. If there is an ambiguity, one could show e.g. the earliest
possible hierarchy fitting to the date, which is still better than just
one fixed title.

Data structure related:

Time-dependent place type field. Often places change their type.
Villages become cities, kingdoms become states, etc. Rather than having
different entries for the same place but with different types, I would
prefer to have one entry but with a time-dependent type. Again, this
could end up more messy.

Thanks
Sebastian

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Re: Comments to place hierarchy in 4.1.0

Philip Weiss


Data structure related:

Time-dependent place type field. Often places change their type.
Villages become cities, kingdoms become states, etc. Rather than having
different entries for the same place but with different types, I would
prefer to have one entry but with a time-dependent type. Again, this
could end up more messy.

Thanks
Sebastian



Per email earlier, I had a couple of comments regarding the structure.  This is one of them.  I don't know if the place type should attach to the hierarchy time or be separate with a time attached.

Second is that there doesn't seem to be a way of explicitly saying a place doesn't have an enclosing place for a specific time frame.  For instance, Texas was an independent country for a period, then became a state.  Latvia was a country, then a socialist republic enclosed in the USSR, then independent again.  I can specify the second, but not the first or third.  It might be something that can be assumed, but I'm not sure if that's a good assumption for the model.  And the title completion tool can't take into account independence if the place was ever enclosed.

Phil.



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Re: Comments to place hierarchy in 4.1.0

Helge.Herz-2
Hi all,

just to show what's possible in some cases: see the example from GOV
[1] or [2] (sorry it's a German database; I did never check which places
are all included from non-German regions; but there are also former
German places).

I really wouldn't like to transfer all these possibilities for all
places into may research database. And for my opinion there often two views:
1. the place of the event to have the right information for it
2. the place where to find the documents regarding the event for further
research

- Helge

[1] http://gov.genealogy.net/item/show/object_159820
[2] http://gov.genealogy.net/item/show/ERFURTJO50MX

Am 29.10.2014 02:47, schrieb Philip Weiss:

>
>
>     Data structure related:
>
>     Time-dependent place type field. Often places change their type.
>     Villages become cities, kingdoms become states, etc. Rather than having
>     different entries for the same place but with different types, I would
>     prefer to have one entry but with a time-dependent type. Again, this
>     could end up more messy.
>
>     Thanks
>     Sebastian
>
>
>
> Per email earlier, I had a couple of comments regarding the structure.
> This is one of them.  I don't know if the place type should attach to
> the hierarchy time or be separate with a time attached.
>
> Second is that there doesn't seem to be a way of explicitly saying a
> place doesn't have an enclosing place for a specific time frame.  For
> instance, Texas was an independent country for a period, then became a
> state.  Latvia was a country, then a socialist republic enclosed in the
> USSR, then independent again.  I can specify the second, but not the
> first or third.  It might be something that can be assumed, but I'm not
> sure if that's a good assumption for the model.  And the title
> completion tool can't take into account independence if the place was
> ever enclosed.
>
> Phil.
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
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>


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