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Discourse

GRAMPS - User mailing list


Hi

Have deleted my account, will look again when/if the original User List
is shutdown

Regards
Phil
MLFHS 12583
Dumfries


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Re: Discourse

Peter Merchant
On 03/01/2020 19:26, phil wharram via Gramps-users wrote:

>
>
> Hi
>
> Have deleted my account, will look again when/if the original User List is shutdown
>
> Regards
> Phil
> MLFHS 12583
> Dumfries
>
>
I tried to set myself up on it, never got the verification email.

peter M.


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Re: Discourse

GRAMPS - User mailing list
On 03/01/2020 19:52, Peter Merchant wrote:
> I tried to set myself up on it, never got the verification email.

Check your junk mail folder.

If you can't find it I can activate your account manually.

Nick.




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Re: Discourse

enno
In reply to this post by GRAMPS - User mailing list

I’m trying to do the same, but I don’t know how. Can you tell?

 

You may reply with private mail, if you think that’s better.

 

Cheers,

 

Enno

 

 

Verzonden vanuit Mail voor Windows 10

 

Van: [hidden email]
Verzonden: vrijdag 3 januari 2020 20:27
Aan: [hidden email]
Onderwerp: [Gramps-users] Discourse

 

 

 

Hi

 

Have deleted my account, will look again when/if the original User List

is shutdown

 

Regards

Phil

MLFHS 12583

Dumfries

 

 

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Re: Discourse

GRAMPS - User mailing list
The Discourse discussions say the self-delete is a briefly available option for New Users who only have 1 or 2 postings.

Since your account has more postings (and they are USEFUL FEEDBACK which shouldn't be lost), there won't be a delete option in your account preferences.

If you turn off Mailing List mode in the preferences, the account should go idle without harassing you. (Assuming you didn't select any 'Watch' buttons on topics or set some other Notification Preferences to send you alerts.)

-Brian

On Fri, Jan 3, 2020 at 16:00, Enno Borgsteede

I’m trying to do the same, but I don’t know how. Can you tell?

You may reply with private mail, if you think that’s better.


Cheers,

Enno

Van: [hidden email]
Verzonden: vrijdag 3 januari 2020 20:27
Aan: [hidden email]
Onderwerp: [Gramps-users] Discourse

Hi

Have deleted my account, will look again when/if the original User Listi isshutdown




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Re: Discourse

Steve Youngs

I'd hope an admin can delete a user account, no matter how many posts the user has made.

Seems like this would be required for GDPR purposes in Europe and the new Californian equivalent.

Steve

On 03/01/2020 22:25, Emyoulation--- via Gramps-users wrote:
The Discourse discussions say the self-delete is a briefly available option for New Users who only have 1 or 2 postings.

Since your account has more postings (and they are USEFUL FEEDBACK which shouldn't be lost), there won't be a delete option in your account preferences.

If you turn off Mailing List mode in the preferences, the account should go idle without harassing you. (Assuming you didn't select any 'Watch' buttons on topics or set some other Notification Preferences to send you alerts.)

-Brian

On Fri, Jan 3, 2020 at 16:00, Enno Borgsteede

I’m trying to do the same, but I don’t know how. Can you tell?

You may reply with private mail, if you think that’s better.


Cheers,

Enno

Van: [hidden email]
Verzonden: vrijdag 3 januari 2020 20:27
Aan: [hidden email]
Onderwerp: [Gramps-users] Discourse

Hi

Have deleted my account, will look again when/if the original User Listi isshutdown






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Re: Discourse

GRAMPS - User mailing list
Absolutely. The delete an account option always available to an Admin. The original question was about how to self-delete of an account. That feature has a limited window opportunity. And Enno has passed beyond that particular threshold.

But your objection does make me wonder what happens to the user's posting(s) if their Discourse account is deleted by an Admin. 

Do all the posting(s) go too? Perhaps the posting credit obfuscated as though it had been an Anonymous poster? Or is everything left intact with the Avatar just becoming disconnected from any profile/account features?

-Brian

On Fri, Jan 3, 2020 at 16:51, Steve Youngs
I'd hope an admin can delete a user account, no matter how many posts the user has made.


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Re: Discourse

GRAMPS - User mailing list
In reply to this post by GRAMPS - User mailing list


Hi

Another reason to NOT use Discourse, is this actually legal, I don't
mind leaving behind an email trail but I sure as hell want to be able to
delete an account

Regards
Phil
MLFHS 12583
Dumfries

On 03/01/2020 22:25, [hidden email] wrote:

> The Discourse discussions say the self-delete is a briefly available option for New Users who only have 1 or 2 postings.
> Since your account has more postings (and they are USEFUL FEEDBACK which shouldn't be lost), there won't be a delete option in your account preferences.
>
> If you turn off Mailing List mode in the preferences, the account should go idle without harassing you. (Assuming you didn't select any 'Watch' buttons on topics or set some other Notification Preferences to send you alerts.)
>
> -Brian
>  
>    On Fri, Jan 3, 2020 at 16:00, Enno Borgsteede<[hidden email]> wrote:
> I’m trying to do the same, but I don’t know how. Can you tell?
>
> You may reply with private mail, if you think that’s better.
>
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Enno
>
> Van: phil wharram via Gramps-users
> Verzonden: vrijdag 3 januari 2020 20:27
> Aan: Gramps - User List
> Onderwerp: [Gramps-users] Discourse
>
> Hi
>
> Have deleted my account, will look again when/if the original User Listi isshutdown
>
>
>
>  
>


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Re: Discourse

Brad Rogers
In reply to this post by GRAMPS - User mailing list
On Fri, 3 Jan 2020 23:18:49 +0000 (UTC)
Emyoulation--- via Gramps-users <[hidden email]>
wrote:

Hello Emyoulation---,

>But your objection does make me wonder what happens to the user's
>posting(s) if their Discourse account is deleted by an Admin. Do all
>the posting(s) go too?

Does it matter? (rhetorical)

There's no knowing who has got copies of any messages, by any given
person, stored on their own computer, on a cloud server, stored on
wayback, etc.  Deleting messages, or redacting poster ID, IMO, serves no
real purpose;  Despite what GDPR legislation may have to say about it.

The short version:
The internet never forgets.

--
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         / )           "The blindingly obvious is
        / _)rad        never immediately apparent"
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Re: Discourse

Brad Rogers
In reply to this post by GRAMPS - User mailing list
On Sat, 4 Jan 2020 11:51:20 +0000
phil wharram via Gramps-users <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello phil,

>Another reason to NOT use Discourse, is this actually legal, I don't

Many systems have no self delete capabilities.  Facebook comes to mind.

--
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         / )           "The blindingly obvious is
        / _)rad        never immediately apparent"
It belongs to them, let's give it back
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Re: Discourse

enno
Op 04-01-2020 om 13:02 schreef Brad Rogers:
Many systems have no self delete capabilities. Facebook comes to mind.

Facebook has a way to delete your account. You can even download your data before that.

It is of course hard to check whether they really delete everything, including posts in the autism groups that I write in, but they can be fined if they don't delete the account data itself, and these fines can be huge.

Anyway, no matter whether you can delete the account yourself, or not, they have a legal obligation to remove all personal data on request. And I bet that if they throw up too many obstacles, they can be fined for that too.

Current legislation says that data can be kept if there is a government requirement to do so, for instance for taxing, or when the data is needed for a running contract, or a warranty. I have no such thing with Discourse however, once stop using their services.

I know the procedure, because I've gone through this on a local autism forum. My messages are still visible, but they're all from an anonymous guest author. My forum alias is still visible in quoted texts, and so is my call name, if people used that in a reply. And that's ok.

Terms of service are irrelevant here. My legal rights are higher than those, and terms that contradict them are voided by law.

Regards,

Enno




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Re: Discourse

enno
In reply to this post by Brad Rogers
Op 04-01-2020 om 12:55 schreef Brad Rogers:
There's no knowing who has got copies of any messages, by any given
person, stored on their own computer, on a cloud server, stored on
wayback, etc.  Deleting messages, or redacting poster ID, IMO, serves no
real purpose;  Despite what GDPR legislation may have to say about it.

The short version:
The internet never forgets.

Well, sort of. All files that were once stored in Yahoo groups are gone, and the same goes for messages exchanged on Google Plus, I think, and web pages on Geocities, just to name a few defunct services.

Some were indeed saved on the wayback machine, but the real point is the personal data kept in my Discourse account, which is my name and email address, IP, etc. That data must be deleted.

The obligation to delete goes pretty far, meaning that if Discourse chose to share some of that private data with suppliers, or ad networks, euphemistically called 'partners', they need to care of that too. And that's their responsibility, not mine.

And I bet that if crawlers got some of that data, Discourse is responsible for that too, because it means that they haven't protected their profile pages in the proper manner.

Regards,

Enno




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Re: Discourse

enno
In reply to this post by GRAMPS - User mailing list
Op 04-01-2020 om 12:51 schreef phil wharram:
Another reason to NOT use Discourse, is this actually legal, I don't mind leaving behind an email trail but I sure as hell want to be able to delete an account

It's illegal. See my other messages about this. Been there, done that.

Regards,

Enno




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Re: Discourse

GRAMPS - User mailing list
On 04/01/2020 12:58, Enno Borgsteede wrote:
> Op 04-01-2020 om 12:51 schreef phil wharram:
>> Another reason to NOT use Discourse, is this actually legal, I don't
>> mind leaving behind an email trail but I sure as hell want to be able
>> to delete an account
>
> It's illegal. See my other messages about this. Been there, done that.
>
I doubt that using Discourse is illegal, but we can investigate that.

The default configuration options seem to be GDPR compliant. There are
warnings on options break compliance.

Nick.




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Re: Discourse

Jeff D
In reply to this post by enno
You have a right not to use Discourse.  You have a right not to use Facebook.

Every email you send via this mailing list can be tracked to you and it's going to everyone's email server. 


Jeff




-------- Original message --------
From: Enno Borgsteede <[hidden email]>
Date: 1/4/20 6:58 AM (GMT-06:00)
To: phil wharram <[hidden email]>, [hidden email], Gramps - User List <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] Discourse

Op 04-01-2020 om 12:51 schreef phil wharram:
Another reason to NOT use Discourse, is this actually legal, I don't mind leaving behind an email trail but I sure as hell want to be able to delete an account

It's illegal. See my other messages about this. Been there, done that.

Regards,

Enno




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Re: Discourse

Brad Rogers
In reply to this post by enno
On Sat, 4 Jan 2020 13:40:01 +0100
Enno Borgsteede <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello Enno,

>Facebook has a way to delete your account. You can even download your
>data before that.

The fb way is not self deletion;  You have to ask _them_ to do it for
you, and at every step of the way they try and talk you out of it.(1)

>It is of course hard to check whether they really delete everything,

They can't delete everything.  They tell you this during the process of
closing an account.(1)

(1)  I've been through the process.

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        / _)rad        never immediately apparent"
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Re: Discourse

GRAMPS - User mailing list
In reply to this post by Jeff D
On 04/01/2020 14:21, digital0xff wrote:
> Every email you send via this mailing list can be tracked to you and
> it's going to everyone's email server.
>
Correct.  Every post to this list is forwarded to everyone else on the
list and is stored in the public archive.  Posts in the archive can be
hidden, but many people will have copies.

Discourse is similar, but it does have a configurable grace period
before sending emails.  This allows a user the opportunity to quickly
amending or deleting their post before it is sent out.


Nick.




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Re: Discourse

enno
In reply to this post by Jeff D
Op 04-01-2020 om 15:21 schreef digital0xff:
You have a right not to use Discourse.  You have a right not to use Facebook.
That's not the point. The point is that, when I stop using these services, they are obliged to remove my account data.

Every email you send via this mailing list can be tracked to you and it's going to everyone's email server.

That's right. And that's a known consequence of email delivery. Data retention is not, however, meaning that once the email has been delivered, the nodes that took part in that delivery have no right to retain it, except where demanded by law.

If you want, you probably have the right to keep my emails forever, because sending them to the list implies that all subscribers get them, and can keep them. But even then, the copyright, and right to reproduce is mine, so you can't reproduce anything as your own.

This is about account data held by a 3rd party however, and they must delete that once I stop using their services, and that's the law.

Regards,

Enno




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Re: Discourse

enno
In reply to this post by GRAMPS - User mailing list
Op 04-01-2020 om 15:20 schreef Nick Hall via Gramps-users:
On 04/01/2020 12:58, Enno Borgsteede wrote:
Op 04-01-2020 om 12:51 schreef phil wharram:
Another reason to NOT use Discourse, is this actually legal, I don't mind leaving behind an email trail but I sure as hell want to be able to delete an account

It's illegal. See my other messages about this. Been there, done that.

I doubt that using Discourse is illegal, but we can investigate that.

If you were using Discourse behind my back, it would probably be illegal, but that's not the case. When I subscribe to their service, I know that they will store some profile data to make things possible. This means that I will have to agree with the storage of a user name, email address, all the things accepted as necessary and reasonable. This will most probably not include things like my birth date, gender, residence, etc., unless the latter is needed for taxation for instance. That's why Amazon will probably need my residence.


The default configuration options seem to be GDPR compliant. There are warnings on options break compliance.

AFAIK, there is no way to avoid or break compliance. Data retention is restricted by law, so when I stop using their service, they are obliged to remove my personal profile data. This is not so for ISPs, which have an obligation to store traffic data for years.

Regards,

Enno




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Re: Discourse

GRAMPS - User mailing list
In reply to this post by Brad Rogers
It was idle curiosity. The whole business of an online reputation is 'but a walking shadow; a poor player, that struts and frets his hour upon the stage, and then is heard no more: it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.'

Hey folks, we're genealogists! We find personal & secret information about people who've been dead for centuries and constantly 'out' them. 

We now dig up indiscretions via DNA that they never even shared with the hatchlings of their deceptions. We document evidence of criminal behavior, physical, mental & moral defects because they humanize and, darn it, it makes their life stories interesting! We battle through reconstructing redacted information as though it were an offense to History. (with that capital 'H') After obsessively searching for this kind of stuff, I accept that we're all snails, leaving behind our trails of slime in the dust.

My mother (since passed) was reminiscing about her first apartment and was frustrated about having forgotten details about it... the address & landlord. She was stunned when I found the half-century bygone original 'apartment to let' advert within a couple minutes, then a photo of it, followed by a personal history of that landlord.

Privacy is an illusion. Its only shielding is being uninteresting. 

-Brian

On Sat, Jan 4, 2020 at 5:57, Brad Rogers
On Fri, 3 Jan 2020 23:18:49 +0000 (UTC)
Emyoulation--- via Gramps-users <[hidden email]>
wrote:

Hello Emyoulation---,


>But your objection does make me wonder what happens to the user's posting(s) if their Discourse account is deleted by an Admin. Do all the posting(s) go too?


Does it matter? (rhetorical)

There's no knowing who has got copies of any messages, by any given person, stored on their own computer, on a cloud server, stored on wayback, etc.  Deleting messages, or redacting poster ID, IMO, serves no real purpose;  Despite what GDPR legislation may have to say about it.

The short version:
The internet never forgets.

--
Regards  _
        / )          "The blindingly obvious is
        / _)rad        never immediately apparent"
Tired of doing day jobs with no thanks for what I do
Do Anything You Wanna Do - Eddie & The Hotrods


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