Documenting Immigration Transport Method

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Documenting Immigration Transport Method

Dave Gilmore
I have an immigration card that lists the Steamer and Line that two
people arrived on. What are some suggestions on how to record this? Just
as an attribute? I feel like if I do that then I will miss some sort of
connection later if another person took the same steamer or the same line

Thanks


Dave Gilmore

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Researching Gilmore, Anderson, Giardina, Renner,
Fellenstein and Conaway


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Re: Documenting Immigration Transport Method

Dave Scheipers
Hi Dave,

I list the name of the ship in the event description field. 'Aboard the SS....'

Hope this helps, Dave

On Sun, Mar 12, 2017 at 12:21 PM, Dave Gilmore <[hidden email]> wrote:
I have an immigration card that lists the Steamer and Line that two
people arrived on. What are some suggestions on how to record this? Just
as an attribute? I feel like if I do that then I will miss some sort of
connection later if another person took the same steamer or the same line

Thanks


Dave Gilmore

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Researching Gilmore, Anderson, Giardina, Renner,
Fellenstein and Conaway


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Re: Documenting Immigration Transport Method

Brad Rogers
In reply to this post by Dave Gilmore
On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 09:21:57 -0700
Dave Gilmore <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello Dave,

>I have an immigration card that lists the Steamer and Line that two
>people arrived on. What are some suggestions on how to record this?

I record the vessel as a 'Place' with custom type of "Vessel".  I enclose
the vessel in the relevant port on the date of departure or arrival.
Vessel ownership is added as a Note.  I don't bother recording the
Captain's/Master's details, except in exceptional circumstances (I've
not done so yet) as, by and large, it's useless info.  Of course, the
info is available, should it be required, in the image of the manifest I
have d/l'd from where I found it.

Using this method, it's possible to track a vessel that's been sold and
renamed.  Of course, finding out which vessels were sold when, and to
who, and what they were renamed as, is a game in itself.   :-)

--
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         / )           "The blindingly obvious is
        / _)rad        never immediately apparent"
I'd hate to look into those eyes and see an ounce of pain
Sweet Child O'Mine - Guns 'N' Roses

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Re: Documenting Immigration Transport Method

enno
In reply to this post by Dave Gilmore
Hello Dave,

> I have an immigration card that lists the Steamer and Line that two
> people arrived on. What are some suggestions on how to record this? Just
> as an attribute? I feel like if I do that then I will miss some sort of
> connection later if another person took the same steamer or the same line
One suggestion that I read earlier is to create a location for the ship.
You can then register events for the emigration and immigration, between
which they were on the (moving) ship.

Attaching a note may also work, but a location is probably easier to do
look-ups on.

regards,

Enno


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Re: Documenting Immigration Transport Method

John W. Kitz-3
In reply to this post by Dave Gilmore
Dave,

> I have an immigration card that lists the Steamer and Line that two
> people arrived on. What are some suggestions on how to record this? Just
> as an attribute? I feel like if I do that then I will miss some sort of
> connection later if another person took the same steamer or the same line

I would have liked to have had out-off the box travel events at my disposal,
since I think that would have made a lot of sense. In lieu of those I
created two generic custom events named 'Departure' and 'Arrival'
respectively.  

On the Complete Individual Report this results in something like:

Custom
Departure     Aboard the vessel ¨Waterland¨, 1943-09-14 in Liverpool.
             
Arrival       Aboard the vessel ¨Waterland¨, 1943-10-01 in New York,
              New York, United States of America.

While I haven't used any of the out-off-the-box travel events I expect the
down side of my approach to be that the out-off-the-box travel events and
the custom ones are printed separate from each other. One of the upsides is
that it is possible to share the same event with multiple individuals.

Additional benefits are the use of the date and place functionality,
expansion of place names by means of the enclosed by function, as well as
the fact you can use the custom events to record other travels, which might
not necessarily be related to emi- or immigration and there may be others
that I haven't thought of (yet).

I hope this helps.

Regards, Jk.


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Re: Documenting Immigration Transport Method

paul womack
In reply to this post by Dave Gilmore
Dave Gilmore wrote:
> I have an immigration card that lists the Steamer and Line that two
> people arrived on. What are some suggestions on how to record this? Just
> as an attribute? I feel like if I do that then I will miss some sort of
> connection later if another person took the same steamer or the same line

This is where I push Gramps model so far that it might be termed
abuse...

I create each ship as a Person. Sorry about that. The gender
is (of course) female, I use "ship" as the Given name.
(this happens to make all ships searchable via a given name filter :-) )

This comes out as "Ship RMS Titanic".

For a Travel, Immigration, or Emigration event I then
share the event with the ship, in addition to the
human Persons's involved. I give the Event
share the role "Ship".

The Person object (of course) supports Events, Notes, Gallery.

  BugBear

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Re: Documenting Immigration Transport Method

paul womack
paul womack wrote:

> Dave Gilmore wrote:
>> I have an immigration card that lists the Steamer and Line that two
>> people arrived on. What are some suggestions on how to record this? Just
>> as an attribute? I feel like if I do that then I will miss some sort of
>> connection later if another person took the same steamer or the same line
>
> This is where I push Gramps model so far that it might be termed
> abuse...
>
> I create each ship as a Person. Sorry about that. The gender
> is (of course) female, I use "ship" as the Given name.
> (this happens to make all ships searchable via a given name filter :-) )
>
> This comes out as "Ship RMS Titanic".
>
> For a Travel, Immigration, or Emigration event I then
> share the event with the ship, in addition to the
> human Persons's involved. I give the Event
> share the role "Ship".
>
> The Person object (of course) supports Events, Notes, Gallery.

I feel a Place is a poor model for a ship, since ships move.
Modelling a Ship as a Person means I can have a (real) person
with an Event of type Travel arrive/depart a Port (which is definitely a Place), with one of
my Ship People sharing the same Event.

I can thus have a voyage history of the Ship neatly represented
as well as a record of which Ship(s) my ancestors sailed on.

I can even include Birth (manufacture) and Death (scrapping).

Is this ideal? No.

Is it useful? Yes.

  BugBear

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Re: Documenting Immigration Transport Method

Ron Johnson
In reply to this post by paul womack
On 03/13/2017 04:43 AM, paul womack wrote:

> paul womack wrote:
>> Dave Gilmore wrote:
>>> I have an immigration card that lists the Steamer and Line that two
>>> people arrived on. What are some suggestions on how to record this? Just
>>> as an attribute? I feel like if I do that then I will miss some sort of
>>> connection later if another person took the same steamer or the same line
>> This is where I push Gramps model so far that it might be termed
>> abuse...
>>
>> I create each ship as a Person. Sorry about that. The gender
>> is (of course) female, I use "ship" as the Given name.
>> (this happens to make all ships searchable via a given name filter :-) )
>>
>> This comes out as "Ship RMS Titanic".
>>
>> For a Travel, Immigration, or Emigration event I then
>> share the event with the ship, in addition to the
>> human Persons's involved. I give the Event
>> share the role "Ship".
>>
>> The Person object (of course) supports Events, Notes, Gallery.
> I feel a Place is a poor model for a ship, since ships move.
> Modelling a Ship as a Person means I can have a (real) person
> with an Event of type Travel arrive/depart a Port (which is definitely a Place), with one of
> my Ship People sharing the same Event.
>
> I can thus have a voyage history of the Ship neatly represented
> as well as a record of which Ship(s) my ancestors sailed on.
>
> I can even include Birth (manufacture) and Death (scrapping).
>
> Is this ideal? No.
>
> Is it useful? Yes.

A person can be in a Place (whether that Place is static or dynamic) for a
certain time span, but it makes no sense for a Person to be in another Person.

--
World Peace Through Nuclear Pacification


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Re: Documenting Immigration Transport Method

Dave Gilmore
In reply to this post by Brad Rogers

Hi Brad (and others with this method),

    What are some advantage of representing a ship as a place?

    What I ended up with (just so I could document the facts and move on) was adding ship and line attributes to an immigration event that I shared between the two people on the immigration card. I have yet to run reports, do searches, or filters to see how this looks

Dave


On 3/12/2017 10:18 AM, Brad Rogers wrote:
On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 09:21:57 -0700
Dave Gilmore [hidden email] wrote:

Hello Dave,

I have an immigration card that lists the Steamer and Line that two
people arrived on. What are some suggestions on how to record this?
I record the vessel as a 'Place' with custom type of "Vessel".  I enclose
the vessel in the relevant port on the date of departure or arrival.
Vessel ownership is added as a Note.  I don't bother recording the
Captain's/Master's details, except in exceptional circumstances (I've
not done so yet) as, by and large, it's useless info.  Of course, the
info is available, should it be required, in the image of the manifest I
have d/l'd from where I found it.

Using this method, it's possible to track a vessel that's been sold and
renamed.  Of course, finding out which vessels were sold when, and to
who, and what they were renamed as, is a game in itself.   :-)



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Re: Documenting Immigration Transport Method

Dave Gilmore
In reply to this post by paul womack
Hi Paul,

     I can see the logic in doing it this way. By thinking of a ship as
a person you can register location type events to it like a person.

     This is the first immigration I have registered. The goal is to
future proof my method from the beginning. But, I also don't know if
adding extra people and places for a ship that may only appear once is
overly complicating things...

Dave


On 3/13/2017 2:21 AM, paul womack wrote:

> Dave Gilmore wrote:
>> I have an immigration card that lists the Steamer and Line that two
>> people arrived on. What are some suggestions on how to record this? Just
>> as an attribute? I feel like if I do that then I will miss some sort of
>> connection later if another person took the same steamer or the same
>> line
>
> This is where I push Gramps model so far that it might be termed
> abuse...
>
> I create each ship as a Person. Sorry about that. The gender
> is (of course) female, I use "ship" as the Given name.
> (this happens to make all ships searchable via a given name filter :-) )
>
> This comes out as "Ship RMS Titanic".
>
> For a Travel, Immigration, or Emigration event I then
> share the event with the ship, in addition to the
> human Persons's involved. I give the Event
> share the role "Ship".
>
> The Person object (of course) supports Events, Notes, Gallery.
>
>  BugBear


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Re: Documenting Immigration Transport Method

paul womack
Dave Gilmore wrote:
> Hi Paul,
>
>      I can see the logic in doing it this way. By thinking of a ship as a person you can register location type events to it like a person.
>
>      This is the first immigration I have registered. The goal is to future proof my method from the beginning. But, I also don't know if adding extra people and places for a ship that may only appear once is overly complicating things...

If you're sure a ship will only occur once, yeah, you;re fine, overly complicated.

But how would you know, when the second instance occurred, that it was a second instance?

  BugBear

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Re: Documenting Immigration Transport Method

Brad Rogers
In reply to this post by Dave Gilmore
On Mon, 13 Mar 2017 08:07:55 -0700
Dave Gilmore <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello Dave,

>     What are some advantage of representing a ship as a place?

You only create the ship once.

It can be bound to places on particular dates (SS Someship is unlikely
to be at New York and Le Havre on the same day).

Events (Immigration, Emigration, etc.) can share the place.  

Sure, much of that can be achieved if the ship is created as a 'person',
but to do that is nonsensical to my mind.

Despite what somebody (Paul?) said ["places can't move"], they *can*
move.  Slowly, admittedly, but it does happen.  There are villages that
are constantly having to move away from the sea, for example, due to
coastal erosion.  Buildings have been moved plenty of times.  The most
famous examples probably being temples in Egypt.

--
 Regards  _
         / )           "The blindingly obvious is
        / _)rad        never immediately apparent"
An old custom to sell your daughter
Hong Kong Garden - Siouxsie & The Banshees

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Re: Documenting Immigration Transport Method

Doug-11
In reply to this post by Dave Gilmore
On 13/03/17 16:07, Dave Gilmore wrote:

Hi Brad (and others with this method),

    What are some advantage of representing a ship as a place?

    What I ended up with (just so I could document the facts and move on) was adding ship and line attributes to an immigration event that I shared between the two people on the immigration card. I have yet to run reports, do searches, or filters to see how this looks

Dave


On 3/12/2017 10:18 AM, Brad Rogers wrote:
On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 09:21:57 -0700
Dave Gilmore [hidden email] wrote:

Hello Dave,

I have an immigration card that lists the Steamer and Line that two 
people arrived on. What are some suggestions on how to record this?
I record the vessel as a 'Place' with custom type of "Vessel".  I enclose
the vessel in the relevant port on the date of departure or arrival.
Vessel ownership is added as a Note.  I don't bother recording the
Captain's/Master's details, except in exceptional circumstances (I've
not done so yet) as, by and large, it's useless info.  Of course, the
info is available, should it be required, in the image of the manifest I
have d/l'd from where I found it.

Using this method, it's possible to track a vessel that's been sold and
renamed.  Of course, finding out which vessels were sold when, and to
who, and what they were renamed as, is a game in itself.   :-)

FWIW I created 3 new event types: ship departure, ship arrival, and port of call. Obviously the places and dates were the places and dates of the events. The description of the event was the ship name: "ship Oceania", "ship Abbazia", etc.
That seemed to work quite well in the Narrative Web report and also in animation of the travels of my ship's doctor ancestor.

Doug

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Re: Documenting Immigration Transport Method

John W. Kitz-3
In reply to this post by Brad Rogers
Brad,

On 2017-03-14 13:17, Brad Rogers wrote:

> On Mon, 13 Mar 2017 08:07:55 -0700
> Dave Gilmore <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hello Dave,
>
>>     What are some advantage of representing a ship as a place?
>
> You only create the ship once.
>
> It can be bound to places on particular dates (SS Someship is unlikely
> to be at New York and Le Havre on the same day).

The above seems to be contingent on names, such as SS Someship, being
globally unique for the typical lifespan of a ship.

> Events (Immigration, Emigration, etc.) can share the place.
>
> Sure, much of that can be achieved if the ship is created as a
> 'person',
> but to do that is nonsensical to my mind.
>
> Despite what somebody (Paul?) said ["places can't move"], they *can*
> move.  Slowly, admittedly, but it does happen.  There are villages that
> are constantly having to move away from the sea, for example, due to
> coastal erosion.  Buildings have been moved plenty of times.  The most
> famous examples probably being temples in Egypt.

Regards, Jk.

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