Entering extended characters in Gramps

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Entering extended characters in Gramps

adrian.davey
As well as the comments people have already made, I can report that some
software, including Gramps, on both linux and Windows, generally accepts
the —

<CTRL><SHIFT><U> sequence for entering Unicode, after which the
4-character HEX UNICODE for the desired character is keyed, followed by
a return—i.e. <CTRL><SHIFT><U><HEX><RETURN>

This method works in the filter sidebar, as well as in the Gramps
editors, on Windows, though it does NOT work in the findbar at the top
of the screen when the sidebar is not active. (The <ALT><NUMPAD-DECIMAL>
method that works in most Windows software does nothing at all in Gramps.)

There are also utilities you can run that facilitate entry of Unicode.
But I have generally found the <ALT><NUMPAD-DECIMAL> works for most
situations (just not in Gramps, and some Unicode symbols have no decimal
code anyway).

Note that the 4-character HEX codes and the DECIMAL codes for defining
Unicode characters are NOT the same.

I did originally, and occasionally still do use the paste-from-document
method mentioned by others. Or the Windows character map utility.

But I keep a one-page table of the characters I most commonly need
within reach on my desk, with their HEX CODEs, and have now used many of
them so often that it is now uncommon for me to consult the table, and
definitely quicker for me to hit the sequence of
<CTRL><SHIFT><U><HEX><RETURN>, than swapping windows, selecting,
copying, swapping back, and pasting. I have now done it so often that I
don't even have to think about the different codes required for upper
and lower case.

If you only need this occasionally, I would recommend the character map,
or the paste-from-document method, but the the
<ALT><NUMPAD-4-digit-DECIMAL-code> will generally be quicker (just not
in Gramps). But if you have serious work to do in Gramps (on Windows)
over many months in one or more countries with extended characters in
their alphabets (as has been my situation for all of 2019), I strongly
recommend the <CTRL><SHIFT><U><HEX><RETURN> method.

As always, there may be quirks with different combinations of locale or
keyboard!

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Re: Entering extended characters in Gramps

StoltHD
Problem with all this is that you assume that every user of Gramps is some kind of Techies...

Rememmber that most people don't even know how to open the Character Map in Windows and find and copy the right Character...

I wonder why normal key Combinations do not work ? is it the GUI that doesn't support it, or...???

ALT + and CTRL + is normal control and option keys on Windows, at least in all Scandinavian languages and English...
All text input fields should support input with any kind of key combo where this is used...
Even web forms today can support (or should) the usage of the Windows control/options keys...

For me personal its not a problem, but for others it may be a show stopper...



ons. 4. des. 2019 kl. 08:57 skrev Adrian Davey <[hidden email]>:
As well as the comments people have already made, I can report that some
software, including Gramps, on both linux and Windows, generally accepts
the —

<CTRL><SHIFT><U> sequence for entering Unicode, after which the
4-character HEX UNICODE for the desired character is keyed, followed by
a return—i.e. <CTRL><SHIFT><U><HEX><RETURN>

This method works in the filter sidebar, as well as in the Gramps
editors, on Windows, though it does NOT work in the findbar at the top
of the screen when the sidebar is not active. (The <ALT><NUMPAD-DECIMAL>
method that works in most Windows software does nothing at all in Gramps.)

There are also utilities you can run that facilitate entry of Unicode.
But I have generally found the <ALT><NUMPAD-DECIMAL> works for most
situations (just not in Gramps, and some Unicode symbols have no decimal
code anyway).

Note that the 4-character HEX codes and the DECIMAL codes for defining
Unicode characters are NOT the same.

I did originally, and occasionally still do use the paste-from-document
method mentioned by others. Or the Windows character map utility.

But I keep a one-page table of the characters I most commonly need
within reach on my desk, with their HEX CODEs, and have now used many of
them so often that it is now uncommon for me to consult the table, and
definitely quicker for me to hit the sequence of
<CTRL><SHIFT><U><HEX><RETURN>, than swapping windows, selecting,
copying, swapping back, and pasting. I have now done it so often that I
don't even have to think about the different codes required for upper
and lower case.

If you only need this occasionally, I would recommend the character map,
or the paste-from-document method, but the the
<ALT><NUMPAD-4-digit-DECIMAL-code> will generally be quicker (just not
in Gramps). But if you have serious work to do in Gramps (on Windows)
over many months in one or more countries with extended characters in
their alphabets (as has been my situation for all of 2019), I strongly
recommend the <CTRL><SHIFT><U><HEX><RETURN> method.

As always, there may be quirks with different combinations of locale or
keyboard!

--
Adrian Davey


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Re: Entering extended characters in Gramps

GRAMPS - User mailing list
On 04/12/2019 14:33, StoltHD wrote:
> I wonder why normal key Combinations do not work ? is it the GUI that
> doesn't support it, or...???

Gramps is a Gtk application so I would expect it to support all the
Gnome input methods for special characters.

See:

https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/tips-specialchars.html


Nick.




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Re: Entering extended characters in Gramps

StoltHD
Well, Nick...

Since it doesn't support ALT+ kombination on Windows for some characters, it clearly does not do that on Windows

ons. 4. des. 2019 kl. 16:37 skrev Nick Hall via Gramps-users <[hidden email]>:
On 04/12/2019 14:33, StoltHD wrote:
> I wonder why normal key Combinations do not work ? is it the GUI that
> doesn't support it, or...???

Gramps is a Gtk application so I would expect it to support all the
Gnome input methods for special characters.

See:

https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/tips-specialchars.html


Nick.




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Re: Entering extended characters in Gramps

GRAMPS - User mailing list
In reply to this post by StoltHD
Actually, I don't make that assumption at all. Besides, software is going towards the idea the no user should have any reason to know that a Character Map in Windows even exists.

Among the most important parts in the evolution of usable software are non-technical users. They provide the sanity check when things get overly complex or overlooked.  And they point out where the documentation makes no sense or is mangled & incomplete. 

Those of us with technical skills to bridge the gap without considering how much it slows our work.  Then, when the obvious is pointed out & the software reworked, we are able to re-purpose that energy to better things.

I read Adrian's contributions. He filled in gaps, writing with a terse Reference Manual style. Other contributors then built upon that... fleshing it out with examples. Other users made the text more conversational. Some others cross-linked the steps of the example to sections that introduce the step. And others fixed everyone's spelling & grammar. And other pointed out the spots around it that made them say "Huh? What's that MEAN?"

We all can contribute from our comfort zone while pushing out of the zone to learn something new.

Everyone can speak up if things don't make sense. It helps us all... provided we listen. I sometimes don't. 

(Hey! Stop nudging back there. I admitted to 'sometimes'! Don't try to get the whole truth all at once.)

-Brian
 Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 8:35, StoltHD
Problem with all this is that you assume that every user of Gramps is some kind of Techies...

Rememmber that most people don't even know how to open the Character Map in Windows and find and copy the right Character...


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Re: Entering extended characters in Gramps

GRAMPS - User mailing list
In reply to this post by StoltHD
On 04/12/2019 15:48, StoltHD wrote:
> Since it doesn't support ALT+ kombination on Windows for some
> characters, it clearly does not do that on Windows
>
I wouldn't expect it to support the Alt key combinations, only the
compose key and code point methods.

Nick.




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Re: Entering extended characters in Gramps

StoltHD
Well...
the Compose key is not a Windows feature, and the Code Point methods are really not user friendly... and I think thats some of the reason there are so many Windows users not using Open Source software...

But who cares, right... as long as it works on Linux...

ons. 4. des. 2019 kl. 17:06 skrev Nick Hall via Gramps-users <[hidden email]>:
On 04/12/2019 15:48, StoltHD wrote:
> Since it doesn't support ALT+ kombination on Windows for some
> characters, it clearly does not do that on Windows
>
I wouldn't expect it to support the Alt key combinations, only the
compose key and code point methods.

Nick.




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Re: Entering extended characters in Gramps

GRAMPS - User mailing list
On 04/12/2019 16:16, StoltHD wrote:
> the Compose key is not a Windows feature, and the Code Point methods
> are really not user friendly... and I think thats some of the reason
> there are so many Windows users not using Open Source software...
>
> But who cares, right... as long as it works on Linux...

We don't have any choice but to use the features provided by the toolkit
we use.  I just gave a link to the options available.

Personally I use the compose key method because I find it user
friendly.  It reminds me of overtyping characters on a mechanical
typewriter.


Nick.





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Re: Entering extended characters in Gramps

StoltHD
Brian !

I wasn't directing it to Nick personally, its a problem over the line of open source software libraries... Just take a look at the shortcuts Squirrel Installer (or what its called) have done... Even Microsofts own open source developers do not care about the Windows system... but still, Linux is not for everyone... and the "version Hell" of Linux libraries are even worse than the DLL hell of windows have ever been... Even the ActiveX problems was easier to solve than keeping track of Library versions on Linux or in Python for that matter... one wrong file and the system is down... and thats the reason I haven't switch from Windows to Linux... That and the fact that you need to run around finding files to set a configuration that on Windows is just a few mouseclick away...

Second problem is that a lot of the libraries used in a lot of open source software are aged, with critical security risks (not Gramps), and if you ask the developers if they could update the software with latest fixes, you either get an answer about donation or just a "do it yourself"...
When users get the impression that the people behind a software, dont care about the users of the software, we dont care to support it... again, im not talking about Gramps and the people here... but I have tested out nearly 2000 open source solutions the last 2 years, and have thrown most of them out because of just those things...

There must be possible to say that something doesnt work, without having a bag full of shit thrown at you... again, not here ! so don't take it personal. I think the folks working with Gramps are doing a great job...And im just waiting for the Event-sub event and the changes in the types...



ons. 4. des. 2019 kl. 18:08 skrev Nick Hall via Gramps-users <[hidden email]>:
On 04/12/2019 16:16, StoltHD wrote:
> the Compose key is not a Windows feature, and the Code Point methods
> are really not user friendly... and I think thats some of the reason
> there are so many Windows users not using Open Source software...
>
> But who cares, right... as long as it works on Linux...

We don't have any choice but to use the features provided by the toolkit
we use.  I just gave a link to the options available.

Personally I use the compose key method because I find it user
friendly.  It reminds me of overtyping characters on a mechanical
typewriter.


Nick.





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Re: Entering extended characters in Gramps

Ron Johnson
I haven't suffered any "version hell" problems since moving away from RPM 15 years ago.

On 12/4/19 12:46 PM, StoltHD wrote:
Brian !

I wasn't directing it to Nick personally, its a problem over the line of open source software libraries... Just take a look at the shortcuts Squirrel Installer (or what its called) have done... Even Microsofts own open source developers do not care about the Windows system... but still, Linux is not for everyone... and the "version Hell" of Linux libraries are even worse than the DLL hell of windows have ever been... Even the ActiveX problems was easier to solve than keeping track of Library versions on Linux or in Python for that matter... one wrong file and the system is down... and thats the reason I haven't switch from Windows to Linux... That and the fact that you need to run around finding files to set a configuration that on Windows is just a few mouseclick away...

Second problem is that a lot of the libraries used in a lot of open source software are aged, with critical security risks (not Gramps), and if you ask the developers if they could update the software with latest fixes, you either get an answer about donation or just a "do it yourself"...
When users get the impression that the people behind a software, dont care about the users of the software, we dont care to support it... again, im not talking about Gramps and the people here... but I have tested out nearly 2000 open source solutions the last 2 years, and have thrown most of them out because of just those things...

There must be possible to say that something doesnt work, without having a bag full of shit thrown at you... again, not here ! so don't take it personal. I think the folks working with Gramps are doing a great job...And im just waiting for the Event-sub event and the changes in the types...



ons. 4. des. 2019 kl. 18:08 skrev Nick Hall via Gramps-users <[hidden email]>:
On 04/12/2019 16:16, StoltHD wrote:
> the Compose key is not a Windows feature, and the Code Point methods
> are really not user friendly... and I think thats some of the reason
> there are so many Windows users not using Open Source software...
>
> But who cares, right... as long as it works on Linux...

We don't have any choice but to use the features provided by the toolkit
we use.  I just gave a link to the options available.

Personally I use the compose key method because I find it user
friendly.  It reminds me of overtyping characters on a mechanical
typewriter.


Nick.

--
Angular momentum makes the world go 'round.


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Re: Entering extended characters in Gramps

StoltHD
Good for you Ron,
I have tested 8 research software latest 3 month and none of them can be used on the same system without setting up virtual enviroments... And then i can still not update to close security issues on any of them because of version problems.

From: Ron Johnson <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 8:36:28 PM
To: [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] Entering extended characters in Gramps
 
I haven't suffered any "version hell" problems since moving away from RPM 15 years ago.

On 12/4/19 12:46 PM, StoltHD wrote:
Brian !

I wasn't directing it to Nick personally, its a problem over the line of open source software libraries... Just take a look at the shortcuts Squirrel Installer (or what its called) have done... Even Microsofts own open source developers do not care about the Windows system... but still, Linux is not for everyone... and the "version Hell" of Linux libraries are even worse than the DLL hell of windows have ever been... Even the ActiveX problems was easier to solve than keeping track of Library versions on Linux or in Python for that matter... one wrong file and the system is down... and thats the reason I haven't switch from Windows to Linux... That and the fact that you need to run around finding files to set a configuration that on Windows is just a few mouseclick away...

Second problem is that a lot of the libraries used in a lot of open source software are aged, with critical security risks (not Gramps), and if you ask the developers if they could update the software with latest fixes, you either get an answer about donation or just a "do it yourself"...
When users get the impression that the people behind a software, dont care about the users of the software, we dont care to support it... again, im not talking about Gramps and the people here... but I have tested out nearly 2000 open source solutions the last 2 years, and have thrown most of them out because of just those things...

There must be possible to say that something doesnt work, without having a bag full of shit thrown at you... again, not here ! so don't take it personal. I think the folks working with Gramps are doing a great job...And im just waiting for the Event-sub event and the changes in the types...



ons. 4. des. 2019 kl. 18:08 skrev Nick Hall via Gramps-users <[hidden email]>:
On 04/12/2019 16:16, StoltHD wrote:
> the Compose key is not a Windows feature, and the Code Point methods
> are really not user friendly... and I think thats some of the reason
> there are so many Windows users not using Open Source software...
>
> But who cares, right... as long as it works on Linux...

We don't have any choice but to use the features provided by the toolkit
we use.  I just gave a link to the options available.

Personally I use the compose key method because I find it user
friendly.  It reminds me of overtyping characters on a mechanical
typewriter.


Nick.

--
Angular momentum makes the world go 'round.


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