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Errors in exported GEDCOM

diannereuby
I wrote about this a while back, and I've been experimenting since then.

My tree has just under 5000 people. I use GRAMPS 3.3.1 on Ubuntu 12.04
LTS (clean install). I export my database as a GEDCOM to read on my
smartphone when out and about.

I was using Family Bee android app (paid version) for some time with no
problems, but started finding errors - father married to
great-grandfather, great-aunt married to mother, things like that.

I've also tried Ancestry app, and seemed to have no problems on a small
sample, but if I export my whole database I get the same problem, which
rules out the apps as the error source.

When I look at Ancestry website, the errors appear there. When I load
the GEDCOM into gramps, the errors are there too.

In gramps I get the wrong names and genders, but the correct dates (eg
DOB) and addresses, and images. For example, my "father" is shown as
female, and is called Ellen Carter, but his photo and all other info
about him is correct.

In Ancestry, his name and details are correct, but he's shown as being
married to two other men from the tree as well as my mother.

Both these are using the same gedcom file!

I've looked at the GEDCOM file in gedit, but I really don't know enough
about it to spot errors. I've looked at some of the links on the gramps
website for gedcom checkers, but I'm not sure that I've found anything
that's within my abilities.

Is there an easy way to analyze my gedcom for errors?

Thanks - sorry this is so long!

Dianne


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Re: Errors in exported GEDCOM

enno
Hi Dianne,
Is there an easy way to analyze my gedcom for errors?
Not with software, I think, because most software only checks for broken links, or people being their own parent, but not for more complex errors, like the ones you describe.

To check your gedcom in gedit, you can start looking for your own record. Mine starts with:
0 @I0310@ INDI
You can find your own ID in Gramps, or look for your name in the gedcom itself.

In my own record, I have two lines that specify where I belong:
1 FAMC @F0129@
1 FAMS @F0215@
The first line says that I'm a child of family F0129, the second says that I'm a spouse in F0215.

When I look up @F0129@ FAM, I find:
0 @F0129@ FAM
1 HUSB @I0198@
1 WIFE @I0309@
...
1 CHIL @I0310@
1 CHIL @I0311@
Where @I0310@ is me again.

When you draw connections like these on a piece of paper, you can easily check where things go wrong.

regards,

Enno


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Re: Errors in exported GEDCOM

diannereuby
Thanks for that - I've been looking through my gedcom with gedit.

For my parents:

Ernest Easter I0038
FAMC @F0010@ I0036 I0037 I0038
FAMS @F0026@ I0038 I0078

This is my father, and seems OK, the three I numbers are for him and his
two sisters. The spouse ties up to my mother:

Joyce Coates I0078
FAMC @F0057@
FAMS @F0026@

My father matches his parents (Fam F0010), and their names are correct.

0 @F0010@ FAM
1 HUSB @I0015@
1 WIFE @I0035@
1 MARR
2 TYPE Marriage of Easter, WILLIAM ERNEST and Merritt, GERTRUDE ANNIE
2 DATE 7 AUG 1916
2 PLAC WIMBLEDON SURREY
3 MAP
4 LATI N51.421477
4 LONG W0.201187
2 ADDR
3 CITY WIMBLEDON
1 CHIL @I0036@
1 CHIL @I0037@
1 CHIL @I0038@

My mother matches her parents (Fam F0057, she's I0078) and their names
are correct.

0 @F0057@ FAM
1 HUSB @I0137@
1 WIFE @I0159@
1 MARR
2 TYPE Marriage of Coates, HENRY and Carter, AMY REBECCA
2 DATE 23 OCT 1909
2 PLAC STOKE-ON-TRENT, STAFFORDSHIRE
2 ADDR
3 CITY STOKE-ON-TRENT
1 CHIL @I0078@
1 CHIL @I0160@
1 CHIL @I0161@
1 CHIL @I0162@
1 CHIL @I0163@
1 CHIL @I0164@
1 CHAN
2 DATE 10 JUN 2010
3 TIME 14:31:51

But my father has his own info as well as someone else from the tree.
I've added an image in my public dropbox:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8632477/Easter_gramps.png

I'm worrying mainly about how I can create a gedcom in GRAMPS, but get
something else when I read it back into either GRAMPS or another reader.

Dianne

On Fri, 2013-03-22 at 00:06 +0100, Enno Borgsteede wrote:

> Hi Dianne,
>
> > Is there an easy way to analyze my gedcom for errors?
> Not with software, I think, because most software only checks for
> broken links, or people being their own parent, but not for more
> complex errors, like the ones you describe.
>
> To check your gedcom in gedit, you can start looking for your own
> record. Mine starts with:
> 0 @I0310@ INDI
> You can find your own ID in Gramps, or look for your name in the
> gedcom itself.



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Re: Errors in exported GEDCOM

Tim Lyons
Administrator
diannereuby wrote
Thanks for that - I've been looking through my gedcom with gedit.

For my parents:

Ernest Easter I0038
FAMC @F0010@ I0036 I0037 I0038
FAMS @F0026@ I0038 I0078

This is my father, and seems OK, the three I numbers are for him and his
two sisters. The spouse ties up to my mother:

This is incorrect GEDCOM, because the FAMC and FAMS llines should just be
FAMC @F0010@
FAMS @F0026@

The extra "I" numbers should not be there.

I don't think that these extra numbers should have been produced by Gramps doing a GEDCOM export. I'm afraid that I didn't quite understand what you were doing. Where did you get the GEDCOM from? In which program is the data actually correct?

I don't know what the effect of the extra "I" numbers would be on Gramps GEDCOM import.

Regards,
Tim.
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Re: Errors in exported GEDCOM

diannereuby
Sorry, my mistake - that's where I'm listing the individuals showing in
each family line.

On Tue, 2013-03-26 at 11:33 -0700, Tim Lyons wrote:
> FAMC @F0010@  I0036 I0037 I0038
> > FAMS @F0026@  I0038 I0078


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Re: Errors in exported GEDCOM

Tim Lyons
Administrator
diannereuby wrote
Sorry, my mistake - that's where I'm listing the individuals showing in
each family line.

OK, but: I'm afraid that I didn't quite understand what you were doing. Where did you get the GEDCOM from? In which program is the data actually correct?

Note that there were some problems in Gramps with import if some of the Individual numbers (the "I0038 etc.) occurred as both I38 and I0038. These should have been different people, but weren't. This has been fixed now - not sure which version it was fixed in.
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Re: Errors in exported GEDCOM

enno
In reply to this post by diannereuby
Hi Dianne,
> Thanks for that - I've been looking through my gedcom with gedit.
>
> For my parents:
>
> Ernest Easter I0038
> FAMC @F0010@ I0036 I0037 I0038
> FAMS @F0026@ I0038 I0078
Are there any other occurrences of I0038, or I38 for that matter? Since
you said that not only Gramps, but other programs also read messed up
families, this may be interesting to check.
> But my father has his own info as well as someone else from the tree.
> I've added an image in my public dropbox:
> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8632477/Easter_gramps.png
I assume that this is what you get after import, and that the original
person (before export) looks ok.
> I'm worrying mainly about how I can create a gedcom in GRAMPS, but get
> something else when I read it back into either GRAMPS or another reader.
I am not aware of any major GEDCOM export errors in Gramps 3.3, but we
have a version 3.4.3 available on our site, which may work better, if
there is no corruption in your current database. If there is, you may be
better off creating a backup, and running the check and repair tool from
the menu first.

regards,

Enno


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Re: Errors in exported GEDCOM

Tim Lyons
Administrator
Dianne,

Do you have a Gramps database that is definitely correct (i..e. everyone has the right data and is married to the right person)?

In that database, do all the people have IDs that consist of "I" followed by exactly four characters (or are some of the IDs different lengths)?

If you have a database that is correct, and some of the IDs are of different lengths, then I suggest trying making a backup, and running the tool "Reorder Gramps ID". Then try exporting to GEDCOM and reimporting into a new blank database. (Importing a GEDCOM into an existing database is very likely to get the database corrupted).
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Re: Errors in exported GEDCOM

diannereuby
I *have* found duplicate ID numbers on my *good* database! Although it
looks OK in GRAMPS, when I export as gedcom and import into an empty
GRAMPS database, then it picks up the errors, and gets confused.

So I have two IDs I0038, one for my father, and one for a female
ancestor. These are merged into one person when I import the gedcom.

If I backup and use the re-order ID tool, will this solve the problem,
or should I go through and manually remove and re-enter the affected
people?

Thanks,
Dianne

On Tue, 2013-03-26 at 16:41 -0700, Tim Lyons wrote:
> Do you have a Gramps database that is definitely correct (i..e.
> everyone has
> the right data and is married to the right person)?


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Re: Errors in exported GEDCOM

Brad Rogers
On Wed, 27 Mar 2013 11:40:27 +0000
Dianne Reuby <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello Dianne,

>If I backup and use the re-order ID tool, will this solve the problem,

Re-order only affects the format of the ID, it doesn't allocate new
numbers to a duplicated ID.  For example, if the person ID format is
specified as I%04d, then I33 will become I0033.  The tool won't change
(say) I0033 to I0293 though.

The term Re-Order is misunderstood.  As a mathematician, I understand
this meaning.  Sadly, most people think it means the other meaning.
Unfortunately, using Reformat or Realign could also be misunderstood.

>or should I go through and manually remove and re-enter the affected
>people?

Just change one person's ID number to an unused one.

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Re: Errors in exported GEDCOM

enno
On 27-03-13 14:08, Brad Rogers wrote:
> The term Re-Order is misunderstood. As a mathematician, I understand
> this meaning. Sadly, most people think it means the other meaning.
> Unfortunately, using Reformat or Realign could also be misunderstood.
>> or should I go through and manually remove and re-enter the affected
>> people?
> Just change one person's ID number to an unused one.
When you clear the ID, Gramps will choose the next available on save.

Enno


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Re: Errors in exported GEDCOM

enno
In reply to this post by diannereuby
On 27-03-13 12:40, Dianne Reuby wrote:
> If I backup and use the re-order ID tool, will this solve the problem,
> or should I go through and manually remove and re-enter the affected
> people?
No need to remove people. Edit one of the duplicates, clear his/her ID,
and then click OK. Gramps will then assign the next available ID for you.

Enno


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Re: Errors in exported GEDCOM

Brad Rogers
In reply to this post by enno
On Wed, 27 Mar 2013 14:48:14 +0100
Enno Borgsteede <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello Enno,

>When you clear the ID, Gramps will choose the next available on save

Silly me - of course it does;  How else would it assign numbers in the
first place?

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Re: Errors in exported GEDCOM

diannereuby
In reply to this post by enno
Thanks everyone for all the help - I'll be busy for a while now! :)

A final (I hope!) question - when gramps assigns a new ID, will the
family/spouse records relating to that person be updated automatically?

Dianne

On Wed, 2013-03-27 at 14:54 +0100, Enno Borgsteede wrote:

> No need to remove people. Edit one of the duplicates, clear his/her ID,
> and then click OK. Gramps will then assign the next available ID for you.



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Re: Errors in exported GEDCOM

jerome
> A final (I hope!) question - when gramps assigns a new ID,
> will the
> family/spouse records relating to that person be updated
> automatically?

Into Gramps, ID are cosmetic ...
The database has its own internal id (handle) for that!
In some very specific cases you can have a minor issue with multiple opened editors. Relations into family are safe, even with errors on ID field. :)

So, yes it is updated automatically and that's also why you do not had problem into your database, but only with gedcom file format.




--- En date de : Mer 27.3.13, Dianne Reuby <[hidden email]> a écrit :

> De: Dianne Reuby <[hidden email]>
> Objet: Re: [Gramps-users] Errors in exported GEDCOM
> À: [hidden email]
> Date: Mercredi 27 mars 2013, 15h38
> Thanks everyone for all the help -
> I'll be busy for a while now! :)
>
> A final (I hope!) question - when gramps assigns a new ID,
> will the
> family/spouse records relating to that person be updated
> automatically?
>
> Dianne
>
> On Wed, 2013-03-27 at 14:54 +0100, Enno Borgsteede wrote:
>
> > No need to remove people. Edit one of the duplicates,
> clear his/her ID,
> > and then click OK. Gramps will then assign the next
> available ID for you.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Own the Future-Intel&reg; Level Up Game Demo Contest
> 2013
> Rise to greatness in Intel's independent game demo contest.
> Compete for recognition, cash, and the chance to get your
> game
> on Steam. $5K grand prize plus 10 genre and skill prizes.
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> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
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>

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Re: Errors in exported GEDCOM

enno
On 27-03-13 16:06, jerome wrote:
> So, yes it is updated automatically and that's also why you do not had
> problem into your database, but only with gedcom file format.
Which makes me think that this is something for the check and repair
tool. Wishlist, I mean.

Do you agree?


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Re: Errors in exported GEDCOM

enno
In reply to this post by diannereuby
On 27-03-13 15:38, Dianne Reuby wrote:
> A final (I hope!) question - when gramps assigns a new ID, will the
> family/spouse records relating to that person be updated automatically?
There's no need for that, because Gramps has an internal system with
unique references that are mostly OK. The ID's are labels for humans and
for GEDCOM export.


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Re: Errors in exported GEDCOM

enno
In reply to this post by Brad Rogers
On 27-03-13 15:05, Brad Rogers wrote:
>> When you clear the ID, Gramps will choose the next available on save
> Silly me - of course it does;  How else would it assign numbers in the
> first place?
Indeed. But I also needed Gramps to remind me. I deliberately tried to
enter a duplicate ID, and then Gramps gave me that hint.

cheers,

Enno


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Re: Errors in exported GEDCOM

jerome
In reply to this post by enno
'Check and repair' tool is rather designed for fixing database error.

If you want to check data, we can warn user via a new rule on 'Check data' utility? On this tool, there is a set of rules (like for filters).
Gramps can point out where there is maybe a problem on user's data, but user needs to valid and make the change.



--- En date de : Mer 27.3.13, Enno Borgsteede <[hidden email]> a écrit :

> De: Enno Borgsteede <[hidden email]>
> Objet: Re: [Gramps-users] Errors in exported GEDCOM
> À: [hidden email]
> Date: Mercredi 27 mars 2013, 16h35
> On 27-03-13 16:06, jerome wrote:
> > So, yes it is updated automatically and that's also why
> you do not had
> > problem into your database, but only with gedcom file
> format.
> Which makes me think that this is something for the check
> and repair
> tool. Wishlist, I mean.
>
> Do you agree?
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Own the Future-Intel&reg; Level Up Game Demo Contest
> 2013
> Rise to greatness in Intel's independent game demo contest.
> Compete for recognition, cash, and the chance to get your
> game
> on Steam. $5K grand prize plus 10 genre and skill prizes.
> Submit your demo by 6/6/13. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel_levelupd2d
> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
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>

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Re: Errors in exported GEDCOM

enno
'Check and repair' tool is rather designed for fixing database error.
I know. And strictly speaking it may not be a database error, since Gramps’ internal references are OK.
 
But OTOH, Gramps has built-in rules to avoid duplicate ID’s, and when we find an error there, we do create a bug report about that, so it’s serious enough for that.
If you want to check data, we can warn user via a new rule on 'Check data' utility? On this tool, there is a set of rules (like for filters).
Gramps can point out where there is maybe a problem on user's data, but user needs to valid and make the change.
H’m, programming wise, re-order ID’s may be the appropriate place to handle this, and maybe do some true re-ordering too, on users wish.
 
cheers,
 
Enno
 

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