Estimate date range gives wrong age field

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Estimate date range gives wrong age field

Rich Lakey
Linux Mint 18.2
Gramps 4.2.3
I looked through Gramps Bugs and found entries with estimated date but nothing like this.  This is my first attempt to use estimated date so perhaps I am doing something wrong.

I have a person with a birth year of 1837. I added and event entry with the date of "Estimated between 1861 and 1865". I would expect the age field to have "(between 24 years and 28 years")
But the age field has "(between 27 years and 78 years)"
I entered the date in this event using the date selection. Type = estimated,  Quality = range, Date = 1861,  Second date = 1865
Did I do this right"
I am trying to add an entry for military service in the civil war without knowing the exact dates this person served.

Rich
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Re: Estimate date range gives wrong age field

Ron Johnson
On 10/24/2017 04:52 PM, Rich wrote:
Linux Mint 18.2
Gramps 4.2.3
I looked through Gramps Bugs and found entries with estimated date but nothing like this.  This is my first attempt to use estimated date so perhaps I am doing something wrong.

I have a person with a birth year of 1837. I added and event entry with the date of "Estimated between 1861 and 1865". I would expect the age field to have "(between 24 years and 28 years")
But the age field has "(between 27 years and 78 years)"
I entered the date in this event using the date selection. Type = estimated,  Quality = range, Date = 1861,  Second date = 1865
Did I do this right"
I am trying to add an entry for military service in the civil war without knowing the exact dates this person served.


In Gramps, "Between" means that a point-in-time event happened somewhere in a time range.  "From" is for span-of-time events.  Thus, I'd do "about from 1861 to 1865".

That doesn't answer your question, though.


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Re: Estimate date range gives wrong age field

Dave Scheipers
In reply to this post by Rich Lakey
Hi Rich,

4.2.6 on Win10

I just tested what you did. Birth = 1837, Death = estimated between
1861 and 1865
Age = between 26 and 78

This appears to be a bug.

Truthfully, I've never used the "estimated" qualifier. Removing it and
the age now shows correctly (between 24 and 28)

If I know someone served in the Civil War without knowing any dates, I
just put it in with no dates and the description "Civil War". But I
see no problem putting "between 1861 and 1865". If I find the actual
dates it would be "from .... to ....". The way I see it, from...
to.... signifies the actual service during that span of time. I think
of the between... and... as saying "at some time between these dates,
the event happened." Most often the between... and... gets put in as
the birth based upon the age at death and any other events.

Just my 2 cents, Dave




On Tue, Oct 24, 2017 at 5:52 PM, Rich <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Linux Mint 18.2
> Gramps 4.2.3
> I looked through Gramps Bugs and found entries with estimated date but
> nothing like this.  This is my first attempt to use estimated date so
> perhaps I am doing something wrong.
>
> I have a person with a birth year of 1837. I added and event entry with the
> date of "Estimated between 1861 and 1865". I would expect the age field to
> have "(between 24 years and 28 years")
> But the age field has "(between 27 years and 78 years)"
> I entered the date in this event using the date selection. Type = estimated,
> Quality = range, Date = 1861,  Second date = 1865
> Did I do this right"
> I am trying to add an entry for military service in the civil war without
> knowing the exact dates this person served.
>
> Rich
> -
> Have you backed up your files today?
>
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> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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> [hidden email]
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Re: Estimate date range gives wrong age field

John W. Kitz-3
Rich, Dave,

On 2017-10-25 01:06, Dave Scheipers wrote:
> Hi Rich,
>
> 4.2.6 on Win10
>
> I just tested what you did. Birth = 1837, Death = estimated between
> 1861 and 1865
> Age = between 26 and 78
>
> This appears to be a bug.

Using 4.2.5 I had noticed it too, but hadn't created a bug report for
it.

> Truthfully, I've never used the "estimated" qualifier. Removing it and
> the age now shows correctly (between 24 and 28)
>
> If I know someone served in the Civil War without knowing any dates, I
> just put it in with no dates and the description "Civil War". But I
> see no problem putting "between 1861 and 1865". If I find the actual
> dates it would be "from .... to ....". The way I see it, from...
> to.... signifies the actual service during that span of time. I think
> of the between... and... as saying "at some time between these dates,
> the event happened." Most often the between... and... gets put in as
> the birth based upon the age at death and any other events.

I do tend to use about, calculated and estimated quite often as I gather
new data and refine the data I already have with the ultimate goal to
get rid of as many of them as I possibly can hoping to, at some point,
end up with only firm dates.

>
> Just my 2 cents, Dave
>

... and mine, Jk.

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Re: Estimate date range gives wrong age field

Nick Hall
In reply to this post by Rich Lakey
On 24/10/17 22:52, Rich wrote:
But the age field has "(between 27 years and 78 years)"
I entered the date in this event using the date selection. Type = estimated,  Quality = range, Date = 1861,  Second date = 1865

Date matching of estimated dates depends on the "Date about range" setting in the "Dates" tab in the preferences.

Nick.



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Re: Estimate date range gives wrong age field

Rich Lakey
Thanks Nick, I see with my default of 50 years it does add 50 years to the ending date, But not sure how that worked with the start date. Changing the default to 5 years, it seems to subtract 5 years from the beginning date and add 5 years to the ending date.  I think I will just skip the estimated date and go with between as others have suggested. 
Rich

On 10/24/2017 06:34 PM, Nick Hall wrote:
On 24/10/17 22:52, Rich wrote:
But the age field has "(between 27 years and 78 years)"
I entered the date in this event using the date selection. Type = estimated,  Quality = range, Date = 1861,  Second date = 1865

Date matching of estimated dates depends on the "Date about range" setting in the "Dates" tab in the preferences.

Nick.




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Re: Estimate date range gives wrong age field

J. Allen Crider-2
Actually, I think this does make sense.  The only times I've seen
parentheses around an age is to indicate the event happened before the
person was born (I most often see it when I change the birth date; it
goes away if I close the person editor and re-open it).  So in your
example it probably should be interpreted as between 27 years before the
person's birth and 78 years after their birth.

Allen

On 10/24/2017 07:08 PM, Rich wrote:

> Thanks Nick, I see with my default of 50 years it does add 50 years to
> the ending date, But not sure how that worked with the start date.
> Changing the default to 5 years, it seems to subtract 5 years from the
> beginning date and add 5 years to the ending date.  I think I will just
> skip the estimated date and go with between as others have suggested.
> Rich
>
> On 10/24/2017 06:34 PM, Nick Hall wrote:
>> On 24/10/17 22:52, Rich wrote:
>>> But the age field has "(between 27 years and 78 years)"
>>> I entered the date in this event using the date selection. Type =
>>> estimated,  Quality = range, Date = 1861, Second date = 1865
>>
>> Date matching of estimated dates depends on the "Date about range"
>> setting in the "Dates" tab in the preferences.
>>
>> Nick.
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
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>
>
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>
>
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Re: Estimate date range gives wrong age field

John W. Kitz-3
In reply to this post by Nick Hall
Rich (and all),

Thanks for raising this on this list.

On 2017-10-25 01:34, Nick Hall wrote:
> On 24/10/17 22:52, Rich wrote:
>
>> But the age field has "(between 27 years and 78 years)"
>> I entered the date in this event using the date selection. Type =
>> estimated,  Quality = range, Date = 1861,  Second date = 1865

As one may have deduced from my brief description of the way I tend to
use firm, about, calculated and estimated dates I intuitively assumed
they are intended to be used to represent the reliability of the
following date value(s).

I.e. I consider a firm date to consist of a known year, month and day
supported by a minimum of one piece of evidence that I can either link
to or have on file. Whenever I have a firm date without any supporting
evidence I use about. Whenever I base another date on a known about or
firm date, typically by either adding or subtracting an age that appears
somewhere in a relevant source, I use calculated.

And finally when I derive another date from a known about or firm date,
typically by making an educated guess about the range of dates in which
I expect an event to have occurred based on other data and information I
have, I use estimated. E.g. one might assume that one at least had to
have some legal age to get married, one might assume that the typical
age difference between spouses isn't more than some value or one might
assume the age difference between two successive generations is between
some value and some other value, etc.

At the same time I assumed that any internal calculations that Gramps
might make to be able to display an age at which some event occurred do
not vary depending on whether any date value used in those calculation
is of the form firm, about, calculated or estimated.

 From the replies to your email it would appear that my assumptions were
incorrect and I should have looked at the relevant documentation first?

>
> Date matching of estimated dates depends on the "Date about range"
> setting in the "Dates" tab in the preferences.
>
> Nick.

Regards, Jk.

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