Event type for travel

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Event type for travel

Jon Schewe
My Mom is a US citizen that lived in Germany some time while her Dad was in the Navy. I have the record of her taking a ship from Germany to the United States. What event type would you put on the event for the time spent on the ship? Given that the paperwork I have is for the travel, that's what I want to record.

Also would you use a date range for this time?

Thank you


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Re: Event type for travel

paul womack
Jon Schewe wrote:
> My Mom is a US citizen that lived in Germany some time while her Dad was in the Navy. I have the record of her taking a ship from Germany to the United States. What event type would you put on the event for the time spent on the ship? Given that the paperwork I have is for the travel, that's what I want to record.
>
> Also would you use a date range for this time?

I use separate depart/arrive events for this, otherwise there is no
way to associate TWO places (typically ports) with the travelling.

The two events may well share a citation.

  BugBear



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Re: Event type for travel

paul womack
paul womack wrote:
> Jon Schewe wrote:
>> My Mom is a US citizen that lived in Germany some time while her Dad was in the Navy. I have the record of her taking a ship from Germany to the United States. What event type would you put on the event for the time spent on the ship? Given that the paperwork I have is for the travel, that's what I want to record.
>>
>> Also would you use a date range for this time?
>
> I use separate depart/arrive events for this, otherwise there is no
> way to associate TWO places (typically ports) with the travelling.
>
> The two events may well share a citation.

And (if needed) I create a PERSON record for the ship,
(given name "ship", gender female) and share the events with
it, giving the ship the role "Vessel".

This creates the ship as a proper Gramps item, which can be in more
than one place, and can have notes, photographs, place of manufacture (Birth!!),
scrapping (Death) associated with it.

  BugBear


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Re: Event type for travel

Brad Rogers
In reply to this post by Jon Schewe
On Wed, 2 Nov 2016 05:52:05 -0500
Jon Schewe <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello Jon,

>the Navy. I have the record of her taking a ship from Germany to the
>United States. What event type would you put on the event for the time
>spent on

Like Paul, I use separate Arrival and Departure events.

Unlike Paul, I treat the vessel as a place, not a person.  On the
departure date, the vessel will be docked at (enclosed by) one place, on
the arrival date, another place.  The vessel itself is stored in the
Place hierarchy without being enclosed by anywhere.  There are
exceptions;  For example, my wife's family resided on a houseboat,
moored permanently in Kent.  That vessel is enclosed by the name of the
mooring place.

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Re: Event type for travel

Jon Schewe


On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 8:25 AM, Brad Rogers <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Wed, 2 Nov 2016 05:52:05 -0500
Jon Schewe <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello Jon,

>the Navy. I have the record of her taking a ship from Germany to the
>United States. What event type would you put on the event for the time
>spent on

Like Paul, I use separate Arrival and Departure events.

Unlike Paul, I treat the vessel as a place, not a person.  On the
departure date, the vessel will be docked at (enclosed by) one place, on
the arrival date, another place.  The vessel itself is stored in the
Place hierarchy without being enclosed by anywhere.  There are
exceptions;  For example, my wife's family resided on a houseboat,
moored permanently in Kent.  That vessel is enclosed by the name of the
mooring place.

Both are interesting ideas.

Paul, with the person idea for the ship. Is the role an attribute?
So you have an emigration event with the ship and the person as people on the event and then set the place of the event to be where they are traveling from. Then use an immigration event for the arrival. Correct?

Brad, with the ship idea.  The place of emigration is the ship and the place of immigration is the ship also because an event cannot have 2 places, correct?  
I expect this has the downside that it's harder to determine where the person traveled from and to since you need to look at the location of the ship at the specified date, right?


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Re: Event type for travel

Brad Rogers
On Wed, 2 Nov 2016 21:41:48 -0500
Jon Schewe <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello Jon,

>Brad, with the ship idea.  The place of emigration is the ship and the
>place of immigration is the ship also because an event cannot have 2
>places, correct?

Yes, but each event (immigration, emigration, arrival, departure) will
have a different enclosing place, on just one day.  In reality, of
course, a vessel would be in port for a few days, possibly weeks,
taking on supplies, etc. but passenger lists I've seen don't have that
information, so I just use the one date.

I'll also mention here that I created two custom events, Arrival and
Departure (I mentioned them above), since leaving one place does not,
necessarily, imply a migration.  If I don't know that somebody migrated
permanently, I use a departure/arrival pair.  If it turns out the person
*did* migrate from one place to another, it's easy enough to change the
event type to suit.

>I expect this has the downside that it's harder to determine where the
>person traveled from and to since you need to look at the location of
>the ship at the specified date, right?

I've not found it to be a problem;  You know the person, you know they
journeyed.  You just search for that person and specific event types.
Sure, it can make writing filter(s) more fiddly but it's not overly
taxing, IME.

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Pure Mania - The Vibrators

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Re: Event type for travel

paul womack
In reply to this post by Jon Schewe
Jon Schewe wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 8:25 AM, Brad Rogers <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>     On Wed, 2 Nov 2016 05:52:05 -0500
>     Jon Schewe <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>     Hello Jon,
>
>     >the Navy. I have the record of her taking a ship from Germany to the
>     >United States. What event type would you put on the event for the time
>     >spent on
>
>     Like Paul, I use separate Arrival and Departure events.
>
>     Unlike Paul, I treat the vessel as a place, not a person.  On the
>     departure date, the vessel will be docked at (enclosed by) one place, on
>     the arrival date, another place.  The vessel itself is stored in the
>     Place hierarchy without being enclosed by anywhere.  There are
>     exceptions;  For example, my wife's family resided on a houseboat,
>     moored permanently in Kent.  That vessel is enclosed by the name of the
>     mooring place.
>
>
> Both are interesting ideas.
>
> Paul, with the person idea for the ship. Is the role an attribute?

It's a property of the sharing of an Event, in the same way that e.g. a Baptism event has primary participant, and witnesses.
"primary" and "witness" are roles.

Having made a Departure event of Aunt Matilda leaving Tilbury, I drag the Event to the Clipboard,
find (or create) a ship, and drag the event from the clipboard to the ship, changing the Role
in the top pane of the the "Event Reference Editor" that pops up to "Vessel".

> So you have an emigration event with the ship and the person as people on the event and then set the place of the event to be where they are traveling from. Then use an immigration event for the arrival. Correct?
No, I use an Arrival event.

A person can travel by ship, arriving and departing without emigrating or immigrating.

My method is a stretch of existing Gramp's facilities verging on abuse, but it seems to work
well in practise.

   BugBear

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Re: Event type for travel

Jon Schewe
In reply to this post by Brad Rogers


On Thu, Nov 3, 2016 at 2:03 AM, Brad Rogers <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Wed, 2 Nov 2016 21:41:48 -0500
Jon Schewe <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello Jon,

>Brad, with the ship idea.  The place of emigration is the ship and the
>place of immigration is the ship also because an event cannot have 2
>places, correct?

Yes, but each event (immigration, emigration, arrival, departure) will
have a different enclosing place, on just one day.  In reality, of
course, a vessel would be in port for a few days, possibly weeks,
taking on supplies, etc. but passenger lists I've seen don't have that
information, so I just use the one date.

I'll also mention here that I created two custom events, Arrival and
Departure (I mentioned them above), since leaving one place does not,
necessarily, imply a migration.  If I don't know that somebody migrated
permanently, I use a departure/arrival pair.  If it turns out the person
*did* migrate from one place to another, it's easy enough to change the
event type to suit.

How do you create the custom event types?

Also what's the definition of "permanent" for emigration/immigration? In this particular case my grandfather was in Germany for military service with his family. 
  


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Re: Event type for travel

Jon Schewe
In reply to this post by paul womack


On Thu, Nov 3, 2016 at 4:08 AM, paul womack <[hidden email]> wrote:
Jon Schewe wrote:


On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 8:25 AM, Brad Rogers <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:

    On Wed, 2 Nov 2016 05:52:05 -0500
    Jon Schewe <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:

    Hello Jon,

    >the Navy. I have the record of her taking a ship from Germany to the
    >United States. What event type would you put on the event for the time
    >spent on

    Like Paul, I use separate Arrival and Departure events.

    Unlike Paul, I treat the vessel as a place, not a person.  On the
    departure date, the vessel will be docked at (enclosed by) one place, on
    the arrival date, another place.  The vessel itself is stored in the
    Place hierarchy without being enclosed by anywhere.  There are
    exceptions;  For example, my wife's family resided on a houseboat,
    moored permanently in Kent.  That vessel is enclosed by the name of the
    mooring place.


Both are interesting ideas.

Paul, with the person idea for the ship. Is the role an attribute?

It's a property of the sharing of an Event, in the same way that e.g. a Baptism event has primary participant, and witnesses.
"primary" and "witness" are roles.

Having made a Departure event of Aunt Matilda leaving Tilbury, I drag the Event to the Clipboard,
find (or create) a ship, and drag the event from the clipboard to the ship, changing the Role
in the top pane of the the "Event Reference Editor" that pops up to "Vessel".

So you have an emigration event with the ship and the person as people on the event and then set the place of the event to be where they are traveling from. Then use an immigration event for the arrival. Correct?
No, I use an Arrival event.

A person can travel by ship, arriving and departing without emigrating or immigrating.

My method is a stretch of existing Gramp's facilities verging on abuse, but it seems to work
well in practise.

Thank you for those detailed instructions. I hadn't used the clipboard like this, I now see how useful it is. It also made it clear to me how to change create custom event types and roles. For some reason I hadn't noticed that I could edit those directly. 



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Re: Event type for travel

Jon Schewe
In reply to this post by paul womack


On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 6:06 AM, paul womack <[hidden email]> wrote:
paul womack wrote:
Jon Schewe wrote:
My Mom is a US citizen that lived in Germany some time while her Dad was in the Navy. I have the record of her taking a ship from Germany to the United States. What event type would you put on the event for the time spent on the ship? Given that the paperwork I have is for the travel, that's what I want to record.

Also would you use a date range for this time?

I use separate depart/arrive events for this, otherwise there is no
way to associate TWO places (typically ports) with the travelling.

The two events may well share a citation.

And (if needed) I create a PERSON record for the ship,
(given name "ship", gender female) and share the events with
it, giving the ship the role "Vessel".

Another question here.
Do you put the name of the ship as the surname then?

And any particular reason for using the gender female?  



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Re: Event type for travel

Brad Rogers
On Thu, 3 Nov 2016 06:25:09 -0500
Jon Schewe <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello Jon,

>And any particular reason for using the gender female?

I name this ship '.....'  God bless her and all who sail in her.

IOW, in English culture, ships are always female.

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That's what I call you
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Re: Event type for travel

Brad Rogers
In reply to this post by Jon Schewe
On Thu, 3 Nov 2016 06:18:22 -0500
Jon Schewe <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello Jon,

>Also what's the definition of "permanent" for emigration/immigration? In

As permanent as anything else (not helpful, I know).

For example, there's no intention of returning to country of departure.
This separates mere travel (say, a sales trip or holiday) from migration.
Passenger lists prove helpful here;  Many have a column headed "Intended
country of permanent residence", or something similar.  So, for a
Southampton to New York journey, if that column has USA in it, you know
the person is migrating.  If it says England, you know it's simply
travel.  A third option exists:  The aforementioned column could have
Canada as the entry.  Then you know that the destination port of the
vessel is not the traveller's final destination.

>this particular case my grandfather was in Germany for military service
>with his family.

That's not emigration to me, that's still military service, and the
individual concerned is merely stationed in said country.  Military
bases, politically, exist *outside* the country in which they are
situated.  Obviously, geographically, they don't.

Emigration entails taking up residence in a country.  Usually, but not
always, this involves some member of the household taking up a job in
the new country.  It may also (but again, not always) involve becoming a
naturalised citizen of that country.

--
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         / )           "The blindingly obvious is
        / _)rad        never immediately apparent"
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Re: Event type for travel

Doug-11
In reply to this post by Jon Schewe
On 03/11/16 11:25, Jon Schewe wrote:


On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 6:06 AM, paul womack <[hidden email]> wrote:
paul womack wrote:
Jon Schewe wrote:
My Mom is a US citizen that lived in Germany some time while her Dad was in the Navy. I have the record of her taking a ship from Germany to the United States. What event type would you put on the event for the time spent on the ship? Given that the paperwork I have is for the travel, that's what I want to record.

Also would you use a date range for this time?

I use separate depart/arrive events for this, otherwise there is no
way to associate TWO places (typically ports) with the travelling.

The two events may well share a citation.

And (if needed) I create a PERSON record for the ship,
(given name "ship", gender female) and share the events with
it, giving the ship the role "Vessel".

Another question here.
Do you put the name of the ship as the surname then?

And any particular reason for using the gender female?  


Tradition. Ships are always female!

Doug

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