Events for Places

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Events for Places

Lasse
Hi all,

I am currently adding a lot of details to the places in my database,
including hierarchy, position etc.. So far, no big problems*. But now I
would like to add events to those places (like "1650: Church was build",
"1670: Flood").

I would then like to write a report listing all the events of one place
along with the people living there at that time (i.e. printing their
events with the same place).

Programming a python based report is feasible for me, but how can I add
events to those places? I'm thinking about adding a person "Dummy
Person", to which I then can add events.

If I only add events without persons, I'm afraid they will be deleted by
the "Delete unused objects"-Tool.


I hope you have some idea for me (or link to a magic wiki page),
Kind regards,

Lasse

*) Having "type" and GPS position only once per Place is quite a
limitation. There are cities today, which formerly only have been
villages. Also I have one village which was relocated. I see no good way
to enter those things. For this problem I settled to document the places
as they have been 1855 (there's a good source for that year).


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Re: Events for Places

Ron Johnson

I think that a genealogy program is the wrong tool for a geographical problem.

On 1/8/19 10:01 AM, [hidden email] wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I am currently adding a lot of details to the places in my database,
> including hierarchy, position etc.. So far, no big problems*. But now I
> would like to add events to those places (like "1650: Church was build",
> "1670: Flood").
>
> I would then like to write a report listing all the events of one place
> along with the people living there at that time (i.e. printing their
> events with the same place).
>
> Programming a python based report is feasible for me, but how can I add
> events to those places? I'm thinking about adding a person "Dummy Person",
> to which I then can add events.
>
> If I only add events without persons, I'm afraid they will be deleted by
> the "Delete unused objects"-Tool.
>
>
> I hope you have some idea for me (or link to a magic wiki page),
> Kind regards,
>
> Lasse
>
> *) Having "type" and GPS position only once per Place is quite a
> limitation. There are cities today, which formerly only have been
> villages. Also I have one village which was relocated. I see no good way
> to enter those things. For this problem I settled to document the places
> as they have been 1855 (there's a good source for that year).

--
Angular momentum makes the world go 'round.


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Re: Events for Places

ACProctor
Maybe so, Ron, but not for a "family history" program. I have written several times about how important events are for places as well as people (and
more). The histories of places (including small ones such as houses) are so intricately connected to those of people that it can be artificial to
separate them.

Looking beyond genealogy, if the the subjects of history can be sub-classed (e.g. subject -> {animate, inanimate}, animate -> {persons, animals},
inanimate -> {places, groups}) then a product suddenly finds whole new niches that were otherwise excluded. Consider house histories, or one-place
studies, for instance.

There are strong analogies there that would make this a lot easier than you might expect at first sight.

Tony

On 08/01/2019 16:31, Ron Johnson wrote:

>
> I think that a genealogy program is the wrong tool for a geographical problem.
>
> On 1/8/19 10:01 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I am currently adding a lot of details to the places in my database, including hierarchy, position etc.. So far, no big problems*. But now I would
>> like to add events to those places (like "1650: Church was build", "1670: Flood").
>>
>> I would then like to write a report listing all the events of one place along with the people living there at that time (i.e. printing their events
>> with the same place).
>>
>> Programming a python based report is feasible for me, but how can I add events to those places? I'm thinking about adding a person "Dummy Person",
>> to which I then can add events.
>>
>> If I only add events without persons, I'm afraid they will be deleted by the "Delete unused objects"-Tool.
>>
>>
>> I hope you have some idea for me (or link to a magic wiki page),
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Lasse
>>
>> *) Having "type" and GPS position only once per Place is quite a limitation. There are cities today, which formerly only have been villages. Also I
>> have one village which was relocated. I see no good way to enter those things. For this problem I settled to document the places as they have been
>> 1855 (there's a good source for that year).
>


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Re: Events for Places

Nick Hall
In reply to this post by Lasse
On 08/01/2019 16:01, [hidden email] wrote:
> Programming a python based report is feasible for me, but how can I
> add events to those places? I'm thinking about adding a person "Dummy
> Person", to which I then can add events.
>
> If I only add events without persons, I'm afraid they will be deleted
> by the "Delete unused objects"-Tool.
>
Create an event without a person.  Just be careful if you use the
"Remove Unused Objects" tool.

Nick.




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Re: Events for Places

Brad Rogers
In reply to this post by Lasse
On Tue, 8 Jan 2019 17:01:56 +0100
[hidden email] wrote:

Hello [hidden email],

>If I only add events without persons, I'm afraid they will be deleted
>by the "Delete unused objects"-Tool.

The tool only deletes object after you check what's offered and confirm
it is to be deleted by selecting it and the hitting the confirm deletion
button.  Of course, if you select one of the items by mistake......

>Having "type" and GPS position only once per Place is quite a
>limitation. There are cities today, which formerly only have been
>villages. Also I have one village which was relocated. I see no good

AIUI, there are thoughts/discussions ongoing regarding Place type
changes (Village -> Town -> City) over time for places.

--
 Regards  _
         / )           "The blindingly obvious is
        / _)rad        never immediately apparent"
It's becoming an obsession
Teenage Depression - Eddie & The Hot Rods


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Re: Events for Places

Nick Hall
On 08/01/2019 16:54, Brad Rogers wrote:
> AIUI, there are thoughts/discussions ongoing regarding Place type
> changes (Village -> Town -> City) over time for places.

We plan to support Gedcom-L for places.

Nick.




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Re: Events for Places

Brad Rogers
On Tue, 8 Jan 2019 17:00:16 +0000
Nick Hall <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello Nick,

>We plan to support Gedcom-L for places.

Thanks Nick;  I knew I'd read/heard something on the subject.

--
 Regards  _
         / )           "The blindingly obvious is
        / _)rad        never immediately apparent"
We don't need no-one to tell us what's right or wrong
The Modern World - The Jam


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Re: Events for Places

Lasse
Hello,

@Ron:
If not gramps (read "Random Genealogy Program"), which program would you
then suggest?

Actually I already thought on writing my own program, but this is a lot
of work and should integrate with the gramps database. Then I actually
prefer to make up a dummy person (which is not nice, but probably the
only hack to make gramps work like I want*)

@Tony:
You seem to be already doing this kind of stuff, how do you do it?

@Nick and @Brad:
For me, this is too risky. I trust cleanup tools to work without
checking ;-).


Kind regards,
Lasse

*) don't get me wrong, I'm *very* happy with how gramps handles all the
other things and that one can so easily adapt reports (by changing an
easy python script).


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Re: Events for Places

ACProctor

On 08/01/2019 20:30, [hidden email] wrote:
>
> You seem to be already doing this kind of stuff, how do you do it?


My own software was designed around a "class system" that I could extend. Initially, it was just People and Places -- taking advantage of the fact
that name handling (multiple names, changes over time, different spellings, etc), linking to evidence, linking to events, mentions in narrative, and
presence of a hierarchy (lineage versus geographic/administrative place hierarchies) were common to both --- but was later extended to include Groups
(very generic concept: classes, regiments, companies, etc), and then animals. Because it was designed with this in mind, it turned out to be very easy
when the time came.

I'm not sure how easy this would be for Gramps, but I absolutely believe that there's a requirement for it, and that it's a core essence of
"historical data". I'm guessing that most of the readers on this forum do not equate genealogy with just biological lineage -- and so excluding
relationships such as adoption, fostering, blended families, and many others -- so this is really just taking things to the next level. But then I'm
fairly well known for detesting the concept of mere "family trees" that the relentless advertising throws at a naive audience.  :-)

Tony



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Re: Events for Places

Ron Johnson
In reply to this post by Lasse
On 1/8/19 2:30 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
> Hello,
>
> @Ron:
> If not gramps (read "Random Genealogy Program"), which program would you
> then suggest?
>

No suggestion.  (Just because I don't think RGP is the right tool for the
job doesn't mean I know of one.  Sorry.)

--
Angular momentum makes the world go 'round.


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Re: Events for Places

StoltHD
In reply to this post by Lasse
None open source software you can look at:
Norwegian Embla - (has farm history),
Clooz 3 - (has the possiblitiy to registre documents and people in the document to "Buildings" and "Businesses", but no hierachy of places and not the best UI, uses a open jet database (ms access)
Custodian 4.

--------------------------------------------

If you are willing to think outside the genealogy box, you can do really complex hierarchies in the following software, but all of them are NONE GEDCOM/Genealogy software


Writers Tools
free:
yWriter
oStoryBook
FreeWriter

Not free:
Scrivener

Or use a Timeline, Graph or mindmapping tool:

Free:
FreePlane
The Timeline Project
Gephi
yEd
Cytoscape


Not free, but work with Scrivener:
Aeon Timeline.

Just some tips of software, if you cant use Gramps Notes untill the developers have done their magic with Gramps.

Hopefully this doesnt break any rules of this maillist.

jaran

tir. 8. jan. 2019 kl. 21:52 skrev <[hidden email]>:
Hello,

@Ron:
If not gramps (read "Random Genealogy Program"), which program would you
then suggest?

Actually I already thought on writing my own program, but this is a lot
of work and should integrate with the gramps database. Then I actually
prefer to make up a dummy person (which is not nice, but probably the
only hack to make gramps work like I want*)

@Tony:
You seem to be already doing this kind of stuff, how do you do it?

@Nick and @Brad:
For me, this is too risky. I trust cleanup tools to work without
checking ;-).


Kind regards,
Lasse

*) don't get me wrong, I'm *very* happy with how gramps handles all the
other things and that one can so easily adapt reports (by changing an
easy python script).


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Re: Events for Places

Doug-11
In reply to this post by Lasse
On 08/01/2019 16:01, [hidden email] wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I am currently adding a lot of details to the places in my
> database, including hierarchy, position etc.. So far, no
> big problems*. But now I would like to add events to those
> places (like "1650: Church was build", "1670: Flood").
>
> I would then like to write a report listing all the events
> of one place along with the people living there at that
> time (i.e. printing their events with the same place).
>
> Programming a python based report is feasible for me, but
> how can I add events to those places? I'm thinking about
> adding a person "Dummy Person", to which I then can add
> events.
>
> If I only add events without persons, I'm afraid they will
> be deleted by the "Delete unused objects"-Tool.
>
>
> I hope you have some idea for me (or link to a magic wiki
> page),
> Kind regards,
>
> Lasse
>
> *) Having "type" and GPS position only once per Place is
> quite a limitation. There are cities today, which formerly
> only have been villages. Also I have one village which was
> relocated. I see no good way to enter those things. For
> this problem I settled to document the places as they have
> been 1855 (there's a good source for that year).
>
An analogous problem: Notes without a Person don't go into
the Narrative Web report, so I couldn't get information
about my Surname (origin, migrations, etc) to appear in the
Report.

But dummy person "<my surname> SURNAME" does the trick.

Doug




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Re: Events for Places

Lasse
In reply to this post by StoltHD
Hi all,

thank you for your replies. As far as I understand them, there's
currently only one solution for me: Creating a dummy person and adding
the place events there.

But: There is a solution to my problem in gramps, and having one "dummy
person" in my database is absolutely acceptable for me :-)

What is your impression, would it help to create a feature request, or
will that be denied by the core team (which would be fine if place
events are considered out of scope). If it would be helpful, please give
me short hint how to do that :-)

Kind regards,
Lasse


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Re: Events for Places

Nick Hall
On 09/01/2019 18:12, [hidden email] wrote:
> What is your impression, would it help to create a feature request, or
> will that be denied by the core team (which would be fine if place
> events are considered out of scope). If it would be helpful, please
> give me short hint how to do that :-)

It would depend on what you are proposing.

Nick.




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