FW: 3.3.1 to 4.1.2 upgrade for Sources to Citations

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FW: 3.3.1 to 4.1.2 upgrade for Sources to Citations

Lee Druxman
Hello,

I haven't been able to find a solution to this upgrade issue and appreciate any help.

I have been using Windows AIO 3.3.1 for several years and didn't realize that there is a new version available. I have just upgraded to the released Windows AIO 4.1.2-2.

In 3.3.1, I would create a source which could contain text based notes or images in a gallery. The same source could be included as a source for a person, family, event, etc.

In 4.1.2, 'Source Citations' seems to have replaced 'Sources' in relation to person, family, event. The titles from my 3.3.1 sources have been copied as citations, but the notes and gallery information is not associated with the new citation. If I am viewing a person, family, event, etc and view the citation I cannot easily access the notes and images unless I close out the person, family, event, etc, and search for that source in the source area.

Is there a way to copy all of the legacy source information into these new citations and then move forward by using citations as I previously used sources?

Thank You

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Re: FW: 3.3.1 to 4.1.2 upgrade for Sources to Citations

Martin Steer-2
On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 11:48:29AM -0700, Lee Druxman wrote:

>Hello,
>
>I haven't been able to find a solution to this upgrade issue and appreciate any
>help.
>
>I have been using Windows AIO 3.3.1 for several years and didn't realize that
>there is a new version available. I have just upgraded to the released Windows
>AIO 4.1.2-2.
>
>In 3.3.1, I would create a source which could contain text based notes or
>images in a gallery. The same source could be included as a source for a
>person, family, event, etc.
>
>In 4.1.2, 'Source Citations' seems to have replaced 'Sources' in relation to
>person, family, event. The titles from my 3.3.1 sources have been copied as
>citations, but the notes and gallery information is not associated with the new
>citation. If I am viewing a person, family, event, etc and view the citation I
>cannot easily access the notes and images unless I close out the person,
>family, event, etc, and search for that source in the source area.

Unless 4.1.2 on windows differs radically from 4.1.1 on linux, there is
a more direct route available to you.

For example, from a list of people in the person view you can view a
source note by highlighting a person, then (in the bottombar) selecting
the citation and source. The source takes you to the note.

You may need to activate the bottombar (from the view menu).

In the bottombar you may need to add the citations gramplet (via the
down arrow on the right).

>Is there a way to copy all of the legacy source information into these new
>citations and then move forward by using citations as I previously used
>sources?

I don't think you should do that. In the long run the citation layer
will save you work, and help to ensure that your data is consistent.

Note that this is such an old update that I may well have overlooked
something. Oh, and there may be more info about this in the wiki.

M.

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Re: FW: 3.3.1 to 4.1.2 upgrade for Sources to Citations

Lee Druxman


> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2015 03:00:19 +1100

> From: [hidden email]
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] FW: 3.3.1 to 4.1.2 upgrade for Sources to Citations
>
> On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 11:48:29AM -0700, Lee Druxman wrote:
> >Hello,
> >
> >I haven't been able to find a solution to this upgrade issue and appreciate any
> >help.
> >
> >I have been using Windows AIO 3.3.1 for several years and didn't realize that
> >there is a new version available. I have just upgraded to the released Windows
> >AIO 4.1.2-2.
> >
> >In 3.3.1, I would create a source which could contain text based notes or
> >images in a gallery. The same source could be included as a source for a
> >person, family, event, etc.
> >
> >In 4.1.2, 'Source Citations' seems to have replaced 'Sources' in relation to
> >person, family, event. The titles from my 3.3.1 sources have been copied as
> >citations, but the notes and gallery information is not associated with the new
> >citation. If I am viewing a person, family, event, etc and view the citation I
> >cannot easily access the notes and images unless I close out the person,
> >family, event, etc, and search for that source in the source area.
>
> Unless 4.1.2 on windows differs radically from 4.1.1 on linux, there is
> a more direct route available to you.
>
> For example, from a list of people in the person view you can view a
> source note by highlighting a person, then (in the bottombar) selecting
> the citation and source. The source takes you to the note.
>
> You may need to activate the bottombar (from the view menu).
>
> In the bottombar you may need to add the citations gramplet (via the
> down arrow on the right).
>
> >Is there a way to copy all of the legacy source information into these new
> >citations and then move forward by using citations as I previously used
> >sources?
>
> I don't think you should do that. In the long run the citation layer
> will save you work, and help to ensure that your data is consistent.
>
> Note that this is such an old update that I may well have overlooked
> something. Oh, and there may be more info about this in the wiki.
>
> M.

Thank you, this does help a bit, but there still seems to be a huge decrease in usability, at least given my previous usage which may have to be relearned.

My primary view is the Relationships view so that I can bounce around up and down the family tree. I can add the citations gramplet to this view, though it and the new font selections significantly reduces the amount of information density on the screen.

However that citations gramplet for a selected person is showing all citations/sources associated with a person. I can open the sources from this gramplet to get to the notes and gallery information that I was hoping to find. The downside is that I would still like to have a person, family, event, etc open and directly access the notes/gallery that I am citing with the citation/source. When the person, family, event, etc is open, I can see that a citation exists, but I have to close out that view to access the actual data associated with that citation. If I want to see what a source says about a birth date, name, death, etc, I can't see that as easily without opening the citations associated with that attribute and then exit down to the citations gramplet where it lets me get at the actual source.

It is likely that I don't yet fully understand the use of citations vs the previous use of sources but I haven't found any good wiki info on this change. https://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=GEPS_023:_Storing_data_from_large_sources kind of describes the implementation of these containers, but neither it nor other entries that I've found seem to describe how to transition from the older version where the data was directly accessible from the person, family, events, etc. Presumably at the time of the version upgrade other people were using the 3.3.1 similarly as to I have been using it and needed to deal with this change, but I can't find any articles or other guides.

Thank You

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Re: FW: 3.3.1 to 4.1.2 upgrade for Sources to Citations

Tim Lyons
Administrator
Lee Druxman wrote
My primary view is the Relationships view so that I can bounce around up and down the family tree. I can add the citations gramplet to this view, though it and the new font selections significantly reduces the amount of information density on the screen.
However that citations gramplet for a selected person is showing all citations/sources associated with a person. I can open the sources from this gramplet to get to the notes and gallery information that I was hoping to find. The downside is that I would still like to have a person, family, event, etc open and directly access the notes/gallery that I am citing with the citation/source. When the person, family, event, etc is open, I can see that a citation exists, but I have to close out that view to access the actual data associated with that citation. If I want to see what a source says about a birth date, name, death, etc, I can't see that as easily without opening the citations associated with that attribute and then exit down to the citations gramplet where it lets me get at the actual source.

Go to the Relationships view.
Open the person, family or event.
Open the Citation *by double clicking in the normal way).
Open the Source by clicking on the 'edit' icon next to the Source:

This involves just one more click than the previous interface.

This should display the Gallery etc associated with the source.

GEPS 023 is the right place to look. The screenshots in the GEPS (especially eidtcitation here https://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=GEPS_023:_Storing_data_from_large_sources#Editors) shows an earlier user interface for citation, where both the Citation information, and the 'Shared Source information' was show in a single window. However, it was felt that this made the edit window too big, and it was difficult to provide a means to make an existing citation point to a different source. Hence the interface was changed to what you now see.

regards,
Tim. (responsible for advocating and (with others) implementing the change from source reference to citation, so you can blame me!)
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Re: FW: 3.3.1 to 4.1.2 upgrade for Sources to Citations

Lee Druxman


> Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2015 04:47:07 -0700

> From: [hidden email]
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] FW: 3.3.1 to 4.1.2 upgrade for Sources to Citations
>
> Lee Druxman wrote
> > My primary view is the Relationships view so that I can bounce around up
> > and down the family tree. I can add the citations gramplet to this view,
> > though it and the new font selections significantly reduces the amount of
> > information density on the screen.
> > However that citations gramplet for a selected person is showing all
> > citations/sources associated with a person. I can open the sources from
> > this gramplet to get to the notes and gallery information that I was
> > hoping to find. The downside is that I would still like to have a person,
> > family, event, etc open and directly access the notes/gallery that I am
> > citing with the citation/source. When the person, family, event, etc is
> > open, I can see that a citation exists, but I have to close out that view
> > to access the actual data associated with that citation. If I want to see
> > what a source says about a birth date, name, death, etc, I can't see that
> > as easily without opening the citations associated with that attribute and
> > then exit down to the citations gramplet where it lets me get at the
> > actual source.
>
>
> Go to the Relationships view.
> Open the person, family or event.
> Open the Citation *by double clicking in the normal way).
> Open the Source by clicking on the 'edit' icon next to the Source:
>
> This involves just one more click than the previous interface.
>
> This should display the Gallery etc associated with the source.
>
> GEPS 023 is the right place to look. The screenshots in the GEPS (especially
> eidtcitation here
> https://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=GEPS_023:_Storing_data_from_large_sources#Editors)
> shows an earlier user interface for citation, where both the Citation
> information, and the 'Shared Source information' was show in a single
> window. However, it was felt that this made the edit window too big, and it
> was difficult to provide a means to make an existing citation point to a
> different source. Hence the interface was changed to what you now see.
>
> regards,
> Tim. (responsible for advocating and (with others) implementing the change
> from source reference to citation, so you can blame me!)
>
Excellent, thank you!

I'm sure the change is a good thing and I'll see how I can fully make use of it.

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Re: FW: 3.3.1 to 4.1.2 upgrade for Sources to Citations

enno
In reply to this post by Lee Druxman
Hello Lee,

It is likely that I don't yet fully understand the use of citations vs the previous use of sources but I haven't found any good wiki info on this change. https://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=GEPS_023:_Storing_data_from_large_sources kind of describes the implementation of these containers, but neither it nor other entries that I've found seem to describe how to transition from the older version where the data was directly accessible from the person, family, events, etc. Presumably at the time of the version upgrade other people were using the 3.3.1 similarly as to I have been using it and needed to deal with this change, but I can't find any articles or other guides.

I never really used version 3.3, but I recently downloaded it to see where you came from, and noticed that there was a separation between a source and a (source) reference, as shown here:

https://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=Gramps_3.3_Wiki_Manual_-_Entering_and_editing_data:_detailed_-_part_2#Editing_source_references

In a way, this reference is an anonymous citation, anonymous, because, just like in GEDCOM, it does not have its own ID or view, but a citation nevertheless. In that, you could store the volume/page where information about a particular event was found, and notes containing a transcription of that part, comments on that particular part of the source (book), etc. That is quite equivalent to how I still used PAF myself at the time, where source references were called citations already. There was no way to attach media to a reference in Gramps, but basically, most of the construct was already there.

In 3.4, which is the Gramps version that I started with, each source reference was converted to a citation, with date and volume/page copied from the original reference, and notes too. In other words, any structure that you had was converted in a proper manner. Reference notes became citation notes, and source notes stayed where they were, in the (shared) source, just like the media. There was and is no way for Gramps to determine whether notes or media actually applied to a specific reference, so the converter did and does the best it can.

It may not have been apparent that sources had or could be structured this way, but the reality is that they could, and the information in your tree didn't really move, because there was no reason to move it. Gramps got features that existed in other programs and in GEDCOM since long, and thus became worth using for myself, also because the new citations are way more advanced than they are in most programs that exist today, allowing you to create citations first, and connect persons and events later. That's quite unique.

Anyway, you now have a situation where notes and media are in sources, where you probably want most of them in the citations now. I can understand that, but right now, I see no other way than you moving them, because there is no tool for that. And I can understand your frustration, because part of my own data originates in a program that had no room for notes in citations at all. That means that here too, I have information that still needs to be moved.

I'm sorry to day that I have no quick solution for your problem. One can think of a Gramplet that shows media and notes from the attached source, but such a Gramplet must be programmed, and in the end, I think it's better to move media and notes to where they actually belong.

regards,

Enno


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