Feature Requests 0000567: Add Internet tabs to Family, Event, Sources, Citation and Media objects

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Feature Requests 0000567: Add Internet tabs to Family, Event, Sources, Citation and Media objects

Jan Skarvall

I have just made a try to solve issue 0000567, starting with adding the Internet tab to Sources. That without knowing if anyone is already working on the issue.

I have not gone so far as to add Internet links as a category (is that the term?), i.e. there is no support to share the Internet link.

What I did was to copy the solution for Person Internet links. It works, including export and import of gramps files (XML). (I could not see that the other kinds of export/import are affected.)

It was not that much effort, and doing the same for Family, Event, Citation and Media objects should likely not be more difficult.

I did not have to add to the language translation files.

The change however would affect documentation, the DTD and maybe more. I have not looked into that.

Now I have two questions:

The change I made adds url information to the Source blobs in the database, so serialization/unserialization of such a blob fails if there is a gramps and database (version) mismatch.

I can not find any support for upgrading an existing database.

I believe that the method is to use the old version of gramps to export as XML, then upgrade gramps and import the XML.

But if a user misses to do that, and opens an old database, there is no warning, and it may take some time until the user gets a troublesome popup about an unexpected and hard to interpret error and a possibility to issue a bug report.

I think that gramps should refuse to open the database and tell the user what to do, i.e. downgrade gramps etc.

But I may be missing something. I tried to fiddle with various version numbers without any reaction from gramps, but stopped after having stepped up to 5.2 as gramps then refused to load any of its plugins.

The other question is more of a discussion.

I did not try to make Internet links a category of its own. That would be much harder, needing a new table in the database and so on. So I started thinking if I could live without it, and I now can not see any use of being able to share Internet links. There is not much information that I would like to add to the Internet link besides the description that is already there, so there is not very much to share.

I have also thought a lot about how to capture a reference to e.g. a birth on a certain page in a church book on the web. At first I went for the idea to map the church book onto a Source, and the actual page and the web link onto a citation.

But a citation referred by a birth event has no need to be able to be shared, I think.

Another case is information about residence in a church book. An a certain page a number of persons, often a family i listed, so such a reference to a page certainly should be able to share. Either by sharing the citation or letting the source point to the particular page and sharing the source. Now I have started to like the latter, i.e. having the source point at the particular page. That way, the citation could describe where on the page one should look, making the citation very specific and an unlikely object to share. (An Internet link on the citation could in fact have the capability too zoom in on what is of interest.)

So, I think I would go for having sources point at the page, and in the residence case, let all residents share that source. Citations I would then never share.

Regards,

Jan






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Re: Feature Requests 0000567: Add Internet tabs to Family, Event, Sources, Citation and Media objects

dbareis
Hi,

I didn't understand all that but highly suspect that you should have a look at the Forms plugin (for saving church book info etc) which I'm working on.

---
Thanks
Dennis


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On Sun, 31 May 2020 at 19:03, Jan Skarvall <[hidden email]> wrote:

I have just made a try to solve issue 0000567, starting with adding the Internet tab to Sources. That without knowing if anyone is already working on the issue.

I have not gone so far as to add Internet links as a category (is that the term?), i.e. there is no support to share the Internet link.

What I did was to copy the solution for Person Internet links. It works, including export and import of gramps files (XML). (I could not see that the other kinds of export/import are affected.)

It was not that much effort, and doing the same for Family, Event, Citation and Media objects should likely not be more difficult.

I did not have to add to the language translation files.

The change however would affect documentation, the DTD and maybe more. I have not looked into that.

Now I have two questions:

The change I made adds url information to the Source blobs in the database, so serialization/unserialization of such a blob fails if there is a gramps and database (version) mismatch.

I can not find any support for upgrading an existing database.

I believe that the method is to use the old version of gramps to export as XML, then upgrade gramps and import the XML.

But if a user misses to do that, and opens an old database, there is no warning, and it may take some time until the user gets a troublesome popup about an unexpected and hard to interpret error and a possibility to issue a bug report.

I think that gramps should refuse to open the database and tell the user what to do, i.e. downgrade gramps etc.

But I may be missing something. I tried to fiddle with various version numbers without any reaction from gramps, but stopped after having stepped up to 5.2 as gramps then refused to load any of its plugins.

The other question is more of a discussion.

I did not try to make Internet links a category of its own. That would be much harder, needing a new table in the database and so on. So I started thinking if I could live without it, and I now can not see any use of being able to share Internet links. There is not much information that I would like to add to the Internet link besides the description that is already there, so there is not very much to share.

I have also thought a lot about how to capture a reference to e.g. a birth on a certain page in a church book on the web. At first I went for the idea to map the church book onto a Source, and the actual page and the web link onto a citation.

But a citation referred by a birth event has no need to be able to be shared, I think.

Another case is information about residence in a church book. An a certain page a number of persons, often a family i listed, so such a reference to a page certainly should be able to share. Either by sharing the citation or letting the source point to the particular page and sharing the source. Now I have started to like the latter, i.e. having the source point at the particular page. That way, the citation could describe where on the page one should look, making the citation very specific and an unlikely object to share. (An Internet link on the citation could in fact have the capability too zoom in on what is of interest.)

So, I think I would go for having sources point at the page, and in the residence case, let all residents share that source. Citations I would then never share.

Regards,

Jan




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Re: Feature Requests 0000567: Add Internet tabs to Family, Event, Sources, Citation and Media objects

prculley
In reply to this post by Jan Skarvall

What I did was to copy the solution for Person Internet links. It works, including export and import of gramps files (XML). (I could not see that the other kinds of export/import are affected.)

I'm a bit surprised this worked, please check carefully that the data are preserved.

The change however would affect documentation, the DTD and maybe more. I have not looked into that.
Definitely affects the DTD and XSD files.  Master branch is very likely to include a jump to 1.8 version of XML, due to some other PRs (UIDs, Place enhancements).  You could look at the changes in one of those for examples.  I suspect merging all of these will be a lot of fun...

Now I have two questions:

The change I made adds url information to the Source blobs in the database, so serialization/unserialization of such a blob fails if there is a gramps and database (version) mismatch.

I can not find any support for upgrading an existing database.

I believe that the method is to use the old version of gramps to export as XML, then upgrade gramps and import the XML.

The XML export/import works, but we also support a db upgrade.  The db upgrade code is in gen.db.upgrade in master branch.  Additional examples in the UID PR

But I may be missing something. I tried to fiddle with various version numbers without any reaction from gramps, but stopped after having stepped up to 5.2 as gramps then refused to load any of its plugins.
We have not yet moved master branch to 5.2 status see https://github.com/gramps-project/gramps/pull/1042   When this is complete the addons-source will get its own update of all addons to 5.2 status.  We will have to do this as soon as one of the PRs affects the data model (and thus the dbs, XML etc.) is accepted.

But a citation referred by a birth event has no need to be able to be shared, I think.

Another case is information about residence in a church book. An a certain page a number of persons, often a family i listed, so such a reference to a page certainly should be able to share. Either by sharing the citation or letting the source point to the particular page and sharing the source. Now I have started to like the latter, i.e. having the source point at the particular page. That way, the citation could describe where on the page one should look, making the citation very specific and an unlikely object to share. (An Internet link on the citation could in fact have the capability too zoom in on what is of interest.)

So, I think I would go for having sources point at the page, and in the residence case, let all residents share that source. Citations I would then never share.

Some people work the way you describe, others make a source more general, just a book, or document.  And then let the citation describe the specific page.  Food for thought.

There are some arguments around including internet links at all; some think that they have historically not been very stable, and they also sometimes suffer from the need for credentials.  Either way they may not survive for long periods of time.

Paul C.




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Re: Feature Requests 0000567: Add Internet tabs to Family, Event, Sources, Citation and Media objects

enno
In reply to this post by Jan Skarvall
Op 31-05-2020 om 10:48 schreef Jan Skarvall:
> I have also thought a lot about how to capture a reference to e.g. a
> birth on a certain page in a church book on the web. At first I went
> for the idea to map the church book onto a Source, and the actual page
> and the web link onto a citation.
>
> But a citation referred by a birth event has no need to be able to be
> shared, I think.
>
Why not? If your research goes backward in time, a birth record is one
of the 1st things that will provide names and some other data for
parents, so if you create parents from that source, the citation is the
evidence for their existence, so it must be shared, don't you think?

In my country we also have death records that provide parents' names, so
their citations can also be shared.

For me, in these cases, sharing means that I attach the citation to the
birth (or death) event of the child, and then attach it to the parents
themselves, as a proof of their existence, not to an event in their life.

> Another case is information about residence in a church book. An a
> certain page a number of persons, often a family i listed, so such a
> reference to a page certainly should be able to share. Either by
> sharing the citation or letting the source point to the particular
> page and sharing the source. Now I have started to like the latter,
> i.e. having the source point at the particular page. That way, the
> citation could describe where on the page one should look, making the
> citation very specific and an unlikely object to share. (An Internet
> link on the citation could in fact have the capability too zoom in on
> what is of interest.)
>
> So, I think I would go for having sources point at the page, and in
> the residence case, let all residents share that source. Citations I
> would then never share.
>
My personal preference is to always share citations, not sources. In my
opinion, that is more like things are done in GEDCOM, and I think that
you can't share a source anyway, since there will always be a citation
in between, even if it's without date and page.

Regards,

Enno




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Re: Feature Requests 0000567: Add Internet tabs to Family, Event, Sources, Citation and Media objects

GRAMPS - Dev mailing list
In reply to this post by prculley
I've often wanted to log a number of URLs of digital archive repositories as fallback copies. That is, I have a PDF of a newspaper article as a media object. But it can be accessed from both the Library of Congress' Chonicling America & Newspapers dot com repositories. So it'd be nice to the same source in both internet Repositories but under different IDs/URLs and with the local Media copy as the preferred.  Likewise, I'd like archive the online scans of the same book (in various formats) on GoogleBooks, Internet Archive, Project Gutenberg, and the manual Transcription. 

If there was a way for Gramps to archive a URL scraping in an MHTML (MIME encapsulation of aggregate HTML documens) format snapshot as an external media file, that would might the only way to have a stable internet object. (It would HAVE to be external because they have the potential to be multi-megabyte, be potentially malware infected, or have refresh settings.) Although we'd probably have to respect features like the noarchive page level (http header) & site wide (robots.txt) directives. You can't rely on the Wayback Machine as a fallback either because of those directives & the way database-driven sites tend to restrict robots.

Like Paul said, online materials are in constant flux. As are the query parameter patterns for database-driven sites.  (If you knew the FindAGrave memorial ID, you could append it to:
  But after the last rework of their site, the short URL is:
)

-Brian

On Sun, May 31, 2020 at 9:30, Paul Culley
There are some arguments around including internet links at all; some think that they have historically not been very stable, and they also sometimes suffer from the need for credentials.  Either way they may not survive for long periods of time.


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Re: Feature Requests 0000567: Add Internet tabs to Family, Event, Sources, Citation and Media objects

Jan Skarvall
In reply to this post by prculley

It is. I can close and reopen the database. I can export it as XML and import it again.

On 2020-05-31 16:30, Paul Culley wrote:

What I did was to copy the solution for Person Internet links. It works, including export and import of gramps files (XML). (I could not see that the other kinds of export/import are affected.)

I'm a bit surprised this worked, please check carefully that the data are preserved.

The change however would affect documentation, the DTD and maybe more. I have not looked into that.
Definitely affects the DTD and XSD files.  Master branch is very likely to include a jump to 1.8 version of XML, due to some other PRs (UIDs, Place enhancements).  You could look at the changes in one of those for examples.  I suspect merging all of these will be a lot of fun...

Now I have two questions:

The change I made adds url information to the Source blobs in the database, so serialization/unserialization of such a blob fails if there is a gramps and database (version) mismatch.

I can not find any support for upgrading an existing database.

I believe that the method is to use the old version of gramps to export as XML, then upgrade gramps and import the XML.

The XML export/import works, but we also support a db upgrade.  The db upgrade code is in gen.db.upgrade in master branch.  Additional examples in the UID PR

But I may be missing something. I tried to fiddle with various version numbers without any reaction from gramps, but stopped after having stepped up to 5.2 as gramps then refused to load any of its plugins.
We have not yet moved master branch to 5.2 status see https://github.com/gramps-project/gramps/pull/1042   When this is complete the addons-source will get its own update of all addons to 5.2 status.  We will have to do this as soon as one of the PRs affects the data model (and thus the dbs, XML etc.) is accepted.

But a citation referred by a birth event has no need to be able to be shared, I think.

Another case is information about residence in a church book. An a certain page a number of persons, often a family i listed, so such a reference to a page certainly should be able to share. Either by sharing the citation or letting the source point to the particular page and sharing the source. Now I have started to like the latter, i.e. having the source point at the particular page. That way, the citation could describe where on the page one should look, making the citation very specific and an unlikely object to share. (An Internet link on the citation could in fact have the capability too zoom in on what is of interest.)

So, I think I would go for having sources point at the page, and in the residence case, let all residents share that source. Citations I would then never share.

Some people work the way you describe, others make a source more general, just a book, or document.  And then let the citation describe the specific page.  Food for thought.

There are some arguments around including internet links at all; some think that they have historically not been very stable, and they also sometimes suffer from the need for credentials.  Either way they may not survive for long periods of time.

Paul C.




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Re: Feature Requests 0000567: Add Internet tabs to Family, Event, Sources, Citation and Media objects

Jan Skarvall
In reply to this post by enno

On 2020-05-31 17:19, Enno Borgsteede wrote:

> Op 31-05-2020 om 10:48 schreef Jan Skarvall:
>> I have also thought a lot about how to capture a reference to e.g. a
>> birth on a certain page in a church book on the web. At first I went
>> for the idea to map the church book onto a Source, and the actual
>> page and the web link onto a citation.
>>
>> But a citation referred by a birth event has no need to be able to be
>> shared, I think.
>>
> Why not? If your research goes backward in time, a birth record is one
> of the 1st things that will provide names and some other data for
> parents, so if you create parents from that source, the citation is
> the evidence for their existence, so it must be shared, don't you think?
>
> In my country we also have death records that provide parents' names,
> so their citations can also be shared.
>
> For me, in these cases, sharing means that I attach the citation to
> the birth (or death) event of the child, and then attach it to the
> parents themselves, as a proof of their existence, not to an event in
> their life.
You are right. Didn't think carefully.

>
>> Another case is information about residence in a church book. An a
>> certain page a number of persons, often a family i listed, so such a
>> reference to a page certainly should be able to share. Either by
>> sharing the citation or letting the source point to the particular
>> page and sharing the source. Now I have started to like the latter,
>> i.e. having the source point at the particular page. That way, the
>> citation could describe where on the page one should look, making the
>> citation very specific and an unlikely object to share. (An Internet
>> link on the citation could in fact have the capability too zoom in on
>> what is of interest.)
>>
>> So, I think I would go for having sources point at the page, and in
>> the residence case, let all residents share that source. Citations I
>> would then never share.
>>
> My personal preference is to always share citations, not sources. In
> my opinion, that is more like things are done in GEDCOM, and I think
> that you can't share a source anyway, since there will always be a
> citation in between, even if it's without date and page.

You are right.

As far as I understand, though, you cannot cross reference a
SOURCE_CITATION in GEDCOM 5.5.1.

>
> Regards,
>
> Enno
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel


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Re: Feature Requests 0000567: Add Internet tabs to Family, Event, Sources, Citation and Media objects

Jan Skarvall
In reply to this post by prculley

Sorry, I failed to reply to all but your first comment.

On 2020-05-31 16:30, Paul Culley wrote:

What I did was to copy the solution for Person Internet links. It works, including export and import of gramps files (XML). (I could not see that the other kinds of export/import are affected.)

I'm a bit surprised this worked, please check carefully that the data are preserved.

The change however would affect documentation, the DTD and maybe more. I have not looked into that.
Definitely affects the DTD and XSD files.  Master branch is very likely to include a jump to 1.8 version of XML, due to some other PRs (UIDs, Place enhancements).  You could look at the changes in one of those for examples.  I suspect merging all of these will be a lot of fun...

Now I have two questions:

The change I made adds url information to the Source blobs in the database, so serialization/unserialization of such a blob fails if there is a gramps and database (version) mismatch.

I can not find any support for upgrading an existing database.

I believe that the method is to use the old version of gramps to export as XML, then upgrade gramps and import the XML.

The XML export/import works, but we also support a db upgrade.  The db upgrade code is in gen.db.upgrade in master branch.  Additional examples in the UID PR
Aah, I missed that. I spawned off from the v5.1.2 tag. Thought that was wise to do. gen.db.upgrade was added after that, it seems. I'll have a look at it.

But I may be missing something. I tried to fiddle with various version numbers without any reaction from gramps, but stopped after having stepped up to 5.2 as gramps then refused to load any of its plugins.
We have not yet moved master branch to 5.2 status see https://github.com/gramps-project/gramps/pull/1042   When this is complete the addons-source will get its own update of all addons to 5.2 status.  We will have to do this as soon as one of the PRs affects the data model (and thus the dbs, XML etc.) is accepted.

But a citation referred by a birth event has no need to be able to be shared, I think.

Another case is information about residence in a church book. An a certain page a number of persons, often a family i listed, so such a reference to a page certainly should be able to share. Either by sharing the citation or letting the source point to the particular page and sharing the source. Now I have started to like the latter, i.e. having the source point at the particular page. That way, the citation could describe where on the page one should look, making the citation very specific and an unlikely object to share. (An Internet link on the citation could in fact have the capability too zoom in on what is of interest.)

So, I think I would go for having sources point at the page, and in the residence case, let all residents share that source. Citations I would then never share.

Some people work the way you describe, others make a source more general, just a book, or document.  And then let the citation describe the specific page.  Food for thought.

There are some arguments around including internet links at all; some think that they have historically not been very stable, and they also sometimes suffer from the need for credentials.  Either way they may not survive for long periods of time.
I agree but not in all cases. I live in the belief that the Swedish church books will live for some time. When you look at a page, there are two buttons, one for copying the url (LÄNK) of the page, the other to copy a descriptive title (KÄLLHÄNVISNING). (The buttons gets visible when hovering with the pointer over the link and title.) See e.g. https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0053979_00050.

Paul C.




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Re: Feature Requests 0000567: Add Internet tabs to Family, Event, Sources, Citation and Media objects

Jan Skarvall
Hi again

I hoped that by addressing gramps-devel mailing list, I would get some
feedback on what I achieved, i.e. having successfully added an Internet
tab to Sources.

As it is right now, I don't know if gramps.org is interested in what I
did, if they want me to go on adding Internet tabs to the other four
objects and push the result.

Be aware that my suggested solution does not make Internet links into
objects like Person. They can't be shared. They work exactly as for
Internet links added to a Person object in 5.1.2.

Best regards

Jan



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Re: Feature Requests 0000567: Add Internet tabs to Family, Event, Sources, Citation and Media objects

Dave Scheipers

Here is another Feature Request that you may want to look at.


On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 3:59 AM Jan Skarvall <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi again

I hoped that by addressing gramps-devel mailing list, I would get some
feedback on what I achieved, i.e. having successfully added an Internet
tab to Sources.

As it is right now, I don't know if gramps.org is interested in what I
did, if they want me to go on adding Internet tabs to the other four
objects and push the result.

Be aware that my suggested solution does not make Internet links into
objects like Person. They can't be shared. They work exactly as for
Internet links added to a Person object in 5.1.2.

Best regards

Jan



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Re: Feature Requests 0000567: Add Internet tabs to Family, Event, Sources, Citation and Media objects

Jan Skarvall

Thanks, I've seen it.

I think it is awkward to have two kinds of sources. I think it is cleaner to extend the current source to cover sources on Internet. That is what I did.

I also don't understand why the "Internet Source" should 'skip' the citation part. I get the impression that the suggested Internet Source is assumed to point at a web page, not a e.g. a web site. In either case, there is a need to pinpoint where exactly one should look, and the citation has that purpose. I would put such information under Volume/page. Maybe that label should be renamed to something more generic. I guess it's an inheritance from GEDCOM.

I note that the 11103 feature request you refer to has the status 'acknowledged'. The 567 one has status 'confirmed'. I don't know if that should tell me something.

Jan

On 2020-06-02 15:05, Dave Scheipers wrote:

Here is another Feature Request that you may want to look at.


On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 3:59 AM Jan Skarvall <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi again

I hoped that by addressing gramps-devel mailing list, I would get some
feedback on what I achieved, i.e. having successfully added an Internet
tab to Sources.

As it is right now, I don't know if gramps.org is interested in what I
did, if they want me to go on adding Internet tabs to the other four
objects and push the result.

Be aware that my suggested solution does not make Internet links into
objects like Person. They can't be shared. They work exactly as for
Internet links added to a Person object in 5.1.2.

Best regards

Jan



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Re: Feature Requests 0000567: Add Internet tabs to Family, Event, Sources, Citation and Media objects

GRAMPS - Dev mailing list
I agree about Citations still being necessary.

A citation is normally an excerpted portion of a source supporting a specific premise or assertion.  

I might use Ancestry, FindAGrave, FamilySearch as a Source and cite a particular memorial scraping. (Have to freeze a snapsot of the dynamic data.)

But what about digital libraries like GoogleBooks, Archive.org, Project Gutenberg, Newspapers.com, or JSTOR ?

I suppose they'd be Repositories in Gramps.

-Brian

On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 11:15, Jan Skarvall
_________________________


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Re: Feature Requests 0000567: Add Internet tabs to Family, Event, Sources, Citation and Media objects

enno
In reply to this post by Jan Skarvall

Hello Jan,

As far as I understand, though, you cannot cross reference a SOURCE_CITATION in GEDCOM 5.5.1.

That's right. In that respect, they are sort of the same as places. One can merge them in Gramps, but they will always appear as separate items in GEDCOM.

For both, I'd love to see Gramps getting a little smarter, meaning that when one types parts of information like author, title, date, page, etc., Gramps would start hunting for existing data, and make re-use much easier.

Regards,

Enno




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Re: Feature Requests 0000567: Add Internet tabs to Family, Event, Sources, Citation and Media objects

GRAMPS - Dev mailing list
In reply to this post by Jan Skarvall
On 02/06/2020 08:58, Jan Skarvall wrote:
> I hoped that by addressing gramps-devel mailing list, I would get some
> feedback on what I achieved, i.e. having successfully added an
> Internet tab to Sources.


You posted in the right place.  I was waiting for some comments first
before replying.


>
> As it is right now, I don't know if gramps.org is interested in what I
> did, if they want me to go on adding Internet tabs to the other four
> objects and push the result.


Adding Internet tabs to Event, Place and Family objects seems like a
reasonable extension to our existing functionality.  Source and Citation
objects are slightly different.  Ideally the url should actually form
part of the citation.

The Gedcom specification allows the page/volume field to take a series
of parameters.  My current thoughts on this are that we could store
these parameters as attributes along with a formatting template.  If a
template exists, we would use it to display the citation, otherwise the
page/volume field would be used as now.

If we decided to go down this route then it would be better to use an
attribute to store this data.


>
> Be aware that my suggested solution does not make Internet links into
> objects like Person. They can't be shared. They work exactly as for
> Internet links added to a Person object in 5.1.2.


This was the correct approach.  It may also still be acceptable for
Source and Citation objects, but I'd like to get more feedback before
making a decision.


Nick.




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Re: Feature Requests 0000567: Add Internet tabs to Family, Event, Sources, Citation and Media objects

Jan Skarvall
In reply to this post by GRAMPS - Dev mailing list

I think it is like this:

Repositories are aggregations of sources, and sources are aggregations of citations.

Having Internet as a focus, I would use repositories for websites, sources for webpages, and citations for pinpointing where on the page (e.g. "the man to the left in the picture", "line 19 in the table", "the yellow house in the picture", etc.)

But I would likely not bother with recording repositories, at least not in the outset. They can most likely be deduced from the sources.

Jan

On 2020-06-02 18:30, [hidden email] wrote:
I agree about Citations still being necessary.

A citation is normally an excerpted portion of a source supporting a specific premise or assertion.  

I might use Ancestry, FindAGrave, FamilySearch as a Source and cite a particular memorial scraping. (Have to freeze a snapsot of the dynamic data.)

But what about digital libraries like GoogleBooks, Archive.org, Project Gutenberg, Newspapers.com, or JSTOR ?

I suppose they'd be Repositories in Gramps.

-Brian

On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 11:15, Jan Skarvall
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Re: Feature Requests 0000567: Add Internet tabs to Family, Event, Sources, Citation and Media objects

Jan Skarvall
In reply to this post by enno

Ahh, that made me think.

Why not extend the Filter view to do automatic searches and list its findings at the bottom of the Filter view whenever the insertion marker is in a nonempty field.

When creating a new citation, the Filter view could be shown and instead of, and as an alternative to click on the icon to look for sources, one could start typing the title of the source (that would require the addition of an editable text view/field for the source title). Selecting a line in the filter search would then make the citation point at that source.

Its just an initial thought.

Jan

On 2020-06-02 21:52, Enno Borgsteede wrote:

Hello Jan,

As far as I understand, though, you cannot cross reference a SOURCE_CITATION in GEDCOM 5.5.1.

That's right. In that respect, they are sort of the same as places. One can merge them in Gramps, but they will always appear as separate items in GEDCOM.

For both, I'd love to see Gramps getting a little smarter, meaning that when one types parts of information like author, title, date, page, etc., Gramps would start hunting for existing data, and make re-use much easier.

Regards,

Enno




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Re: Feature Requests 0000567: Add Internet tabs to Family, Event, Sources, Citation and Media objects

Jan Skarvall
In reply to this post by GRAMPS - Dev mailing list
I'm still not convinced to push the Internet link down to the citation.
Doing that makes the sources just a collection of citations, just as
repositories are collections of sources.

And just as repositories, in my view at least, does not add much to the
picture, sources as well would then not add very much. They will only
give you a way to see which citations point at the same source.

Take a record of peoples residence at a certain time in a church book as
an example, a record that is sorted on residence, where a page could
include several named housings and a list of people residing there at
that time. If you capture that as a citation in the intention of letting
the people in the housings share it (as well as places maybe), the
citation can not further specify where to look.

But, maybe, it is a matter of taste, so having Internet links on the
citations and being able to share them, which is already supported, is
OK with me.

Jan

On 2020-06-03 00:07, Nick Hall via Gramps-devel wrote:

> On 02/06/2020 08:58, Jan Skarvall wrote:
>> I hoped that by addressing gramps-devel mailing list, I would get
>> some feedback on what I achieved, i.e. having successfully added an
>> Internet tab to Sources.
>
>
> You posted in the right place.  I was waiting for some comments first
> before replying.
>
>
>>
>> As it is right now, I don't know if gramps.org is interested in what
>> I did, if they want me to go on adding Internet tabs to the other
>> four objects and push the result.
>
>
> Adding Internet tabs to Event, Place and Family objects seems like a
> reasonable extension to our existing functionality.  Source and
> Citation objects are slightly different.  Ideally the url should
> actually form part of the citation.
>
> The Gedcom specification allows the page/volume field to take a series
> of parameters.  My current thoughts on this are that we could store
> these parameters as attributes along with a formatting template.  If a
> template exists, we would use it to display the citation, otherwise
> the page/volume field would be used as now.
>
> If we decided to go down this route then it would be better to use an
> attribute to store this data.
>
>
>>
>> Be aware that my suggested solution does not make Internet links into
>> objects like Person. They can't be shared. They work exactly as for
>> Internet links added to a Person object in 5.1.2.
>
>
> This was the correct approach.  It may also still be acceptable for
> Source and Citation objects, but I'd like to get more feedback before
> making a decision.
>
>
> Nick.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel


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