Finding relationship between two people

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Finding relationship between two people

Peter Flynn
Is there a simple way to input two IDs for individuals and find out what
their relationship and degree is?

It's not hard to do it visually on a full family tree (ie one that shows
ALL the people, not just descendant and ancestors), but difficult when
the size of the tree is very large.

"Yes, she's your ninth cousin seven times removed"

"He's your step-great-great-grandmother's niece-by-marriage's grandson"

Peter


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Re: Finding relationship between two people

GRAMPS - User mailing list
On 29/02/2020 14:51, Peter Flynn wrote:

> Is there a simple way to input two IDs for individuals and find out
> what their relationship and degree is?
>
> It's not hard to do it visually on a full family tree (ie one that
> shows ALL the people, not just descendant and ancestors), but
> difficult when the size of the tree is very large.
>
> "Yes, she's your ninth cousin seven times removed"
>
> "He's your step-great-great-grandmother's niece-by-marriage's grandson"
>
> Peter
>
>
Yes, use the "Deep connections" gramplet.

David Lynch



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Re: Finding relationship between two people

George Wilmes
In reply to this post by Peter Flynn
Yes, try the Relationship Calculator tool.

On Sat, Feb 29, 2020 at 9:09 AM Peter Flynn <[hidden email]> wrote:
Is there a simple way to input two IDs for individuals and find out what
their relationship and degree is?

It's not hard to do it visually on a full family tree (ie one that shows
ALL the people, not just descendant and ancestors), but difficult when
the size of the tree is very large.

"Yes, she's your ninth cousin seven times removed"

"He's your step-great-great-grandmother's niece-by-marriage's grandson"

Peter


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Re: Finding relationship between two people

Peter Merchant
I think if you make one person your 'home person' then at the foot of the page  is shown the relationship to any other person you select.  Not sure if you have to have any particular gramplets installed.

Peter M.

On 29/02/2020 15:30, George Wilmes wrote:
Yes, try the Relationship Calculator tool.

On Sat, Feb 29, 2020 at 9:09 AM Peter Flynn <[hidden email]> wrote:
Is there a simple way to input two IDs for individuals and find out what
their relationship and degree is?

It's not hard to do it visually on a full family tree (ie one that shows
ALL the people, not just descendant and ancestors), but difficult when
the size of the tree is very large.

"Yes, she's your ninth cousin seven times removed"

"He's your step-great-great-grandmother's niece-by-marriage's grandson"

Peter


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Re: Finding relationship between two people

Peter Flynn
In reply to this post by Peter Flynn
Thanks very much to the several people pointing me at the relevant
gramplets.

This is the first time I've needed a gramplet, so I am ignorant about
where to get them. Under the Add Gramplet drop-down, none of the
gramplets mentioned are listed, and the page at
https://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=Relationship_Calculator 
doesn't point at any download. Is there some additional package I need
to install that provides these gramplets mentioned?

I'm running 5.0.0 under Linux Mint 19

Peter


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Re: Finding relationship between two people

Peter Flynn
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Re: Finding relationship between two people

GRAMPS - User mailing list
In reply to this post by Peter Flynn
https://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php/Contact#Mailing_lists


-Brian

On Sat, Feb 29, 2020 at 16:36, Peter Flynn
Thanks very much to the several people pointing me at the relevant
gramplets.

This is the first time I've needed a gramplet, so I am ignorant about
where to get them. Under the Add Gramplet drop-down, none of the
gramplets mentioned are listed, and the page at
https://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=Relationship_Calculator
doesn't point at any download. Is there some additional package I need
to install that provides these gramplets mentioned?

I'm running 5.0.0 under Linux Mint 19


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Re: Finding relationship between two people

GRAMPS - User mailing list
Sorry. Fat-fingered a 'send' instead of a draft delete.

Any wiki page has been collated with maillist suggestions for determining relationships.

See:

-Brian


On Sat, Feb 29, 2020 at 16:36, Peter Flynn
Thanks very much to the several people pointing me at the relevant
gramplets.

This is the first time I've needed a gramplet, so I am ignorant about
where to get them. Under the Add Gramplet drop-down, none of the
gramplets mentioned are listed, and the page at
https://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=Relationship_Calculator
doesn't point at any download. Is there some additional package I need
to install that provides these gramplets mentioned?

I'm running 5.0.0 under Linux Mint 19


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Re: Finding relationship between two people

Peter Flynn
On 03/03/2020 03:04, Emyoulation--- via Gramps-users wrote:
> A wiki page has been collated with maillist suggestions for
> determining relationships.
>
> See:
> https://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php/How_to_find_the_relationship_between_people

Thank you and all those who helped!

Just out of curiosity (and my ignorance), is there a formal name for
what I described as a "full" family tree display — one that shows all
the people in a database, including multiple partners and all their
descendants, and everyone's ancestors, rather than just strict
hierarchical descent and ancestry?

This is challenging to code (I have tried :-), because you have to keep
moving people aside to accommodate relationships, and cross-generational
relationships impose other spatial restrictions. I believe there are a
few commercial systems out there which claim to handle all cases but I
haven't tried them. The biggest problem seems to be that every attempt
makes assumptions about the size of paper, which is actually irrelevant.

Peter


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Re: Finding relationship between two people

George Wilmes
Try the Quilt Chart.

On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 11:15 AM Peter Flynn <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 03/03/2020 03:04, Emyoulation--- via Gramps-users wrote:
> A wiki page has been collated with maillist suggestions for
> determining relationships.
>
> See:
> https://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php/How_to_find_the_relationship_between_people

Thank you and all those who helped!

Just out of curiosity (and my ignorance), is there a formal name for
what I described as a "full" family tree display — one that shows all
the people in a database, including multiple partners and all their
descendants, and everyone's ancestors, rather than just strict
hierarchical descent and ancestry?

This is challenging to code (I have tried :-), because you have to keep
moving people aside to accommodate relationships, and cross-generational
relationships impose other spatial restrictions. I believe there are a
few commercial systems out there which claim to handle all cases but I
haven't tried them. The biggest problem seems to be that every attempt
makes assumptions about the size of paper, which is actually irrelevant.

Peter


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Re: Finding relationship between two people

Peter Flynn
On 03/03/2020 17:56, George Wilmes wrote:
> Try the Quilt Chart <https://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php/Quilt_Chart>.

Very useful visualisation, thanks.

P


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Re: Finding relationship between two people

GRAMPS - User mailing list
Could somebody else describe the use in the wiki page? 

It seems more obfuscating than edifying to me.  So my description wouldn't do it justice. (But then, I've always disliked quilts of any ilk.)


-Brian

On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 12:00, Peter Flynn
On 03/03/2020 17:56, George Wilmes wrote:
> Try the Quilt Chart <https://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php/Quilt_Chart>.

Very useful visualisation, thanks.


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Re: Finding relationship between two people

George Wilmes
I wouldn't mention it on that particular wiki page; I don't think it's a very useful way of finding how two people are related, compared to the others that are mentioned there.

Though I don't use it often myself, the quilt chart is how I first learned about Gramps, from the Geneaquilts site.

On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 12:09 PM Emyoulation--- via Gramps-users <[hidden email]> wrote:
Could somebody else describe the use in the wiki page? 

It seems more obfuscating than edifying to me.  So my description wouldn't do it justice. (But then, I've always disliked quilts of any ilk.)


-Brian

On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 12:00, Peter Flynn
On 03/03/2020 17:56, George Wilmes wrote:
> Try the Quilt Chart <https://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php/Quilt_Chart>.

Very useful visualisation, thanks.
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Re: Finding relationship between two people - Quilt Chart ?

adrian.davey
In reply to this post by GRAMPS - User mailing list
It would also greatly help if someone who has successfully used this (I
am making an assumption) could please fully describe under what
conditions (of platform, o/s, gramps v, db size, filtering, options
settings etc) they have got it to work at all.

I am on AIO64-5.0.1-1 (w10p).

On a production database of (in my case) over 40k people, even if I
first set (in people view) a filter limiting the scope to a reasonably
small group of people (say 1k), if I switch to the quiltview it reverts
to the entire database and either locks up completely, takes over 5
minutes to do anything, &/or (most commonly) crashes gramps completely.
If it does load, what is displayed on the screen is so far away from
anyone that was within the filter I had set as to be completely
useless--the person I had selected in people view is completely out of
range.

The dialog advises me that I have 0 filtered persons, notwithstanding
the filter already in effect. If I then attempt to input a name, I go
back into the loop of it taking many minutes to respond at all, and/or
to crash gramps.

I have never been there long enough without crashing to attempt to
change any of its options from the defaults, but the effects of these
options are extremely unclear anyway. So I usually quickly revert to
graphview and give up! As a result, I cannot even start evaluation of
this view, and I certainly cannot pretend to understand what it offers.

My conclusion is that it simply does not work with a reasonably large
database.

Adrian

On 2020-03-04 05:09, Emyoulation--- via Gramps-users wrote:

> Could somebody else describe the use in the wiki page?
> It seems more obfuscating than edifying to me.  So my description wouldn't do it justice. (But then, I've always disliked quilts of any ilk.)
> https://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php/How_to_find_the_relationship_between_people
> -Brian
>  
>    On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 12:00, Peter Flynn<[hidden email]> wrote:   On 03/03/2020 17:56, George Wilmes wrote:
>> Try the Quilt Chart <https://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php/Quilt_Chart>.
> Very useful visualisation, thanks.
>
> P
>
>
>
>


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Re: Finding relationship between two people - Quilt Chart ?

Peter Flynn
On 03/03/2020 23:24, Adrian Davey wrote:
> It would also greatly help if someone who has successfully used this
> (I am making an assumption) could please fully describe under what
> conditions (of platform, o/s, gramps v, db size, filtering, options
> settings etc) they have got it to work at all.

I solved my initial query with Relationship Calculator.

I have since pursued a different path to create a standalone program to
calculate the closest common ancestor and count the generations up both
branches of the tree.

The objective (for me) was a shell script and a data file of pairs of
IDs that the program could produce the results for.

I have done a small proof-of-concept in XSLT which turned out to be
simple enough: construct two trees back in time, family by family for
both the subjects, then walk the tree to find the closest common
ancestor, and count the number of families you have to go back to do
that in both cases. For my two use cases, I now get

<relationship between="I0955 I0710">
    <name id="I0955" generations="5">Flynn George Bolster</name>
    <name id="I0710" generations="4">Flynn Edward Walton</name>
    <common-ancestor>
       <family id="F0031">
          <father id="I0091" name="Thomas Flynn"/>
          <mother id="I0092" name="Elizabeth Ann Thomas"/>
       </family>
    </common-ancestor>
</relationship>

In effect, Edward is George's 5th cousin once removed, which agrees with
what Relationship Calculator said.

This was on an exported Gramps XML copy of my database (just under 1,000
people) from v5.0.0 under Linux Mint 19.2. The code is 80 lines of
XSLT3, so it needs an XSLT processor supporting v3 such as Saxon
(saxon.sourceforge.net), which in turn needs Java.

I'm not pursuing this further but I'm happy to make the code available
if it's of interest.

Peter


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Re: Finding relationship between two people -

GRAMPS - User mailing list
In reply to this post by adrian.davey
You're probably also still running with BSDDB database backend. After backing up & upgrading to v5.1.2; you should probably convert your tree to SQLite. (see https://www.gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php/Gramps_5.1_Wiki_Manual_-_Manage_Family_Trees#Converting_a_BSDDB_Family_Tree_to_SQlite ) But that still won't affect the filtering issue in the quilt chart.

My database is about 32,000 individuals and is ... sluggish ... on the quilt chart but still responds within a few seconds.

As to the 'useless' part & navigation portion, I can't speak to them. As I said, the quilt chart is a visualization that makes little sense to me.

-Brian

On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 17:26, Adrian Davey
It would also greatly help if someone who has successfully used this (I am making an assumption) could please fully describe under what conditions (of platform, o/s, gramps v, db size, filtering, options
settings etc) they have got it to work at all.

I am on AIO64-5.0.1-1 (w10p).

On a production database of (in my case) over 40k people, even if I first set (in people view) a filter limiting the scope to a reasonably small group of people (say 1k), if I switch to the quiltview it reverts
to the entire database and either locks up completely, takes over 5 minutes to do anything, &/or (most commonly) crashes gramps completely.
If it does load, what is displayed on the screen is so far away from anyone that was within the filter I had set as to be completely useless--the person I had selected in people view is completely out of
range.

The dialog advises me that I have 0 filtered persons, notwithstanding the filter already in effect. If I then attempt to input a name, I go back into the loop of it taking many minutes to respond at all, and/or to crash gramps.

I have never been there long enough without crashing to attempt to change any of its options from the defaults, but the effects of these options are extremely unclear anyway. So I usually quickly revert to graphview and give up! As a result, I cannot even start evaluation of this view, and I certainly cannot pretend to understand what it offers.

My conclusion is that it simply does not work with a reasonably large database.

Adrian

On 2020-03-04 05:09, Emyoulation--- via Gramps-users wrote:

> Could somebody else describe the use in the wiki page?
> It seems more obfuscating than edifying to me.  So my description wouldn't do it justice. (But then, I've always disliked quilts of any ilk.)
> https://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php/How_to_find_the_relationship_between_people
> -Brian

>    On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 12:00, Peter Flynn<[hidden email]> wrote:  On 03/03/2020 17:56, George Wilmes wrote:
>> Try the Quilt Chart <https://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php/Quilt_Chart>.
> Very useful visualisation, thanks.
>
> P


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Re: Finding relationship between two people

Chris Wood
In reply to this post by George Wilmes
It's probably worth mentioning that the Relationship Calculator and the Not Related tools are not inverses of each other, as they appear to use different criteria. That is, the Relationship Calculator may report two people as not related but these people not shown by the Not Related tool. The doc for the Relationship Calculator is clear that it shows blood and husband/wife relationships only, whereas the Not Related tool doc doesn't mention what it means to be "not related". It actually reports that everyone in my tree is related, which make me think that "related" in this case really means "connected", which is true for my tree.

Chris

On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 at 15:32, George Wilmes <[hidden email]> wrote:
Yes, try the Relationship Calculator tool.

On Sat, Feb 29, 2020 at 9:09 AM Peter Flynn <[hidden email]> wrote:
Is there a simple way to input two IDs for individuals and find out what
their relationship and degree is?

It's not hard to do it visually on a full family tree (ie one that shows
ALL the people, not just descendant and ancestors), but difficult when
the size of the tree is very large.

"Yes, she's your ninth cousin seven times removed"

"He's your step-great-great-grandmother's niece-by-marriage's grandson"

Peter


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Re: Finding relationship between two people

GRAMPS - User mailing list
Agreed.  The 'Not Related' is more aptly described as a 'Disconnected' report. It seems to be an inverse of the Deep Connections Gramplet rather than the Relationship Calculator.

Also, the Relationship Calculator DOES report half & step relationships. So it goes somewhat beyond husband-wife. How far beyond is an excellent question.

Finally, the Deep Connections can get you in very deep. I've had it report Person linking through Notes and have had to curb my use of links in Notes.  It gives priority to reporting closer proximity indirect connections over blood relations. (I periodically have to disconnect a paternal aunt's spouse from the Tree. He is her distant twice removed cousin & it confuses the reporting. Deep Connections gives Preference to reporting his connection to our common ancestors.)

-Brian

On Wed, Mar 4, 2020 at 1:59, Chris Wood
--
It's probably worth mentioning that the Relationship Calculator and the Not Related tools are not inverses of each other, as they appear to use different criteria. That is, the Relationship Calculator may report two people as not related but these people not shown by the Not Related tool. The doc for the Relationship Calculator is clear that it shows blood and husband/wife relationships only, whereas the Not Related tool doc doesn't mention what it means to be "not related". It actually reports that everyone in my tree is related, which make me think that "related" in this case really means "connected", which is true for my tree.

Chris

On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 at 15:32, George Wilmes <[hidden email]> wrote:
Yes, try the Relationship Calculator tool.

On Sat, Feb 29, 2020 at 9:09 AM Peter Flynn <[hidden email]> wrote:
Is there a simple way to input two IDs for individuals and find out what
their relationship and degree is?

It's not hard to do it visually on a full family tree (ie one that shows
ALL the people, not just descendant and ancestors), but difficult when
the size of the tree is very large.

"Yes, she's your ninth cousin seven times removed"

"He's your step-great-great-grandmother's niece-by-marriage's grandson"

Peter



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Re: Finding relationship between two people

Patrick Gerlier

I have a loosely related question.

I'm trying to get back in time as far as I can depending in the available archives.

When you're far enough in the past (late XVIth-early XVIIth century in my case), working on small villages, the mere mention of the same family name  leads to a high probability of kinship. Unfortunately, I don't always find the common ancestor.

I'd like to find how many disjoint clusters are present in my DB. The statistics gramplet displays the number of non-connected people, but as soon as there is a family record and ancestors, these are no longer counted as non-connected.

Which tool can sort this out?

Patrick

Le 04/03/2020 à 11:13, Emyoulation--- via Gramps-users a écrit :
Agreed.  The 'Not Related' is more aptly described as a 'Disconnected' report. It seems to be an inverse of the Deep Connections Gramplet rather than the Relationship Calculator.

Also, the Relationship Calculator DOES report half & step relationships. So it goes somewhat beyond husband-wife. How far beyond is an excellent question.

Finally, the Deep Connections can get you in very deep. I've had it report Person linking through Notes and have had to curb my use of links in Notes.  It gives priority to reporting closer proximity indirect connections over blood relations. (I periodically have to disconnect a paternal aunt's spouse from the Tree. He is her distant twice removed cousin & it confuses the reporting. Deep Connections gives Preference to reporting his connection to our common ancestors.)



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Re: Finding relationship between two people

Dave Scheipers
You want the Not Related tool.  As Brian pointed out, it is more an
Unconnected tool.

The Active Person is the base person for the tool and it will find any
singletons or clusters of families that are not "linked" in some way
to that base person. Connected will include relatives, in-laws,
out-laws and anyone connected to these people.

Once found, the tool will allow you to Tag these records.

On Wed, Mar 4, 2020 at 6:28 AM Patrick Gerlier <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I have a loosely related question.
>
> I'm trying to get back in time as far as I can depending in the available archives.
>
> When you're far enough in the past (late XVIth-early XVIIth century in my case), working on small villages, the mere mention of the same family name  leads to a high probability of kinship. Unfortunately, I don't always find the common ancestor.
>
> I'd like to find how many disjoint clusters are present in my DB. The statistics gramplet displays the number of non-connected people, but as soon as there is a family record and ancestors, these are no longer counted as non-connected.
>
> Which tool can sort this out?
>
> Patrick
>
> Le 04/03/2020 à 11:13, Emyoulation--- via Gramps-users a écrit :
>
> Agreed.  The 'Not Related' is more aptly described as a 'Disconnected' report. It seems to be an inverse of the Deep Connections Gramplet rather than the Relationship Calculator.
>
> Also, the Relationship Calculator DOES report half & step relationships. So it goes somewhat beyond husband-wife. How far beyond is an excellent question.
>
> Finally, the Deep Connections can get you in very deep. I've had it report Person linking through Notes and have had to curb my use of links in Notes.  It gives priority to reporting closer proximity indirect connections over blood relations. (I periodically have to disconnect a paternal aunt's spouse from the Tree. He is her distant twice removed cousin & it confuses the reporting. Deep Connections gives Preference to reporting his connection to our common ancestors.)
>
>
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