Fw: How to properly reference a pointer to a source.

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Fw: How to properly reference a pointer to a source.

Michael Stockhausen
Hi Peter and Phil,

in general I would say that there is no right or wrong, just personal
preference.
But having the Manchester Archives as the repository and the OPC as the
source does not feel right for me.
After all, the OPC and the original parish records are two different
sources. How do you know that the transciption is correct?

I usually distinguish between two different sources:

A) the original parish records
They can be in different repositories and/or formats:
- the original manuscripts in the local archive
- the LDS microfilm
- digital images on Familysearch or Ancestry
- digital images on other websites. This could be OPC, if they had images
online (but they don't)
This is all the same source for me, as I always view the original parish
records or images of them; just different repositories and formats (media
types).


B) transciptions or indexes or information received from other researchers
(without copies of the original records) or anything similar
These are all separate sources.
If known, I would note the primary source that was used for the
trascription, index etc. - either in the citation or as a note to the
source.
(My goal would in any case would be to view the original myself, depending
on how important the information is for me.)
One example is the Familysearch index, if there is no link to the digital
image:
In this case I would have Familysearch (Index) as the repository and the
name of the FS-collection (Baptisms Germany 1500-1950) as the source.
Familysearch provides a suggestion on how to cite those entries. I would put
all of this information into the citation field, except the parts that I
already have in the source information.

Your example can be found here on Familysearch:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JQ9T-44M
1) In your case I would preferably look up the digital image and cite the
original parish record (repository Familysearch)
2) If the image were not available and just the index, I would take the
citation suggestion by Familysearch. They propose:
"England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975," database, FamilySearch
(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JQ9T-44M : 12 February 2018, Jane
White, ); citing item 2 p 282, index based upon data collected by the
Genealogical Society of Utah, Salt Lake City; FHL microfilm 1,545,476.
As said, I would take Familysearch (dtabase) as the repository:   "England
Births and Christenings, 1538-1975" (Index) as the source and all the rest
(Jane White 14 Apr 1834; citing item 2 p 282, FHL microfilm 1,545,476) as
the citiation information.

I would also keep this structure for OPC:
- repository is the OPC website
- source "Parish records Emmanuel, Holcombe - Transcription"
- citation: Baptism 14 Apr 1834, Jane White; citing Baptisms 1820 - 1835,
Page 282, Entry 2250

The exact wording and structure are of course a matter of preference.
My intention was more to point out the difference between citing a primary
and a secondary source.


Complicated? Maybe, but hopefully understandable.

Michael

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
From: phil wharram via Gramps-users
Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2018 9:46 AM
To: Peter Merchant ; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] How to properly reference a pointer to a source.




Hi Peter

Agree with you on amount of work but maybe the most precise

Note the original registers in this case are at Manchester Archive so
that is the only repository as far as I see

The latter Day Saints, have a filmed copy

The LanOPC website hold  a transcription

So my take on this is to keep it simple but I feel I might be breaching
all sorts of codes and guidance

Repository Manchester Archives

Source Lancashire OPC

Citation Baptism register for Parish of
Emmanuel, Holcombe, Lancashire 1726-1948



Regards
Phil
MLFHS 12583
Dumfries
On 20/10/2018 08:28, Peter Merchant wrote:

> Michael,
> I feel that this is just creating work. OK, I can create one repository,
> but I am going to have MANY sources for all the different churches that I
> have accessed, and a citation per person when I already have the
> information as a note to that person.
>
> Because as George says the original transcriptions are in Manchester
> library or the Genealogical Society of Utah, shouldn't they be the
> repository and work down from there?
>
> Peter
>
>
>
> On 19/10/2018 22:23, Michael Stockhausen wrote:
>> Peter,
>> I would create a repository "Lancashire On-line Parish Clerks "
>> (database, URL: http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/indexp.html) and a source
>> "Parish records Emmanuel, Holcombe - Transcription" (in the call no.
>> field: http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Bury/Holcombe/emmanuel/index.html).  I
>> would add the word "transciption" or something similar to underline that
>> your source was not the original parish record.
>> The citation could be something like "Baptism of Jane White on 14 Apr
>> 1834"
>> The details below can be put into a note to the baptism event.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- From: Peter Merchant
>> Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 10:15 PM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: [Gramps-users] How to properly reference a pointer to a source.
>>
>> At the moment a common resource that I use is the Lancashire On-line
>> Parish Clerks  database, but I feel that this is just supplying pointers
>> to the actual resource. How should I enter it?
>>
>> http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Bury/Holcombe/emmanuel/index.html  and here is
>> an example:
>>
>> Baptism: 14 Apr 1834 Emmanuel, Holcombe, Lancashire, England
>> Jane White - Daughter of James Entwistle, Repd. Father & Nancy White
>>      Born: 14 Apr
>>      Abode: Nuttall
>>      Occupation: Piecer
>>      Baptised by: W. Holt Incumbent Curate
>>      Register: Baptisms 1820 - 1835, Page 282, Entry 2250
>>      Source: Original Parish Register at Manchester Archives
>>
>>
>> I have been putting it in as note on the person.
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Peter M.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gramps-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
>> https://gramps-project.org
>> .
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
> https://gramps-project.org
>


_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
https://gramps-project.org 



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Re: Fw: How to properly reference a pointer to a source.

Helge.Privat
1+

Helge

Am 20.10.2018 um 11:32 schrieb "Michael Stockhausen"
<[hidden email]>:

>Hi Peter and Phil,
>
>in general I would say that there is no right or wrong, just personal
>preference.
>But having the Manchester Archives as the repository and the OPC as the
>source does not feel right for me.
>After all, the OPC and the original parish records are two different
>sources. How do you know that the transciption is correct?
>
>I usually distinguish between two different sources:
>
>A) the original parish records
>They can be in different repositories and/or formats:
>- the original manuscripts in the local archive
>- the LDS microfilm
>- digital images on Familysearch or Ancestry
>- digital images on other websites. This could be OPC, if they had images
>online (but they don't)
>This is all the same source for me, as I always view the original parish
>records or images of them; just different repositories and formats (media
>types).
>
>
>B) transciptions or indexes or information received from other researchers
>(without copies of the original records) or anything similar
>These are all separate sources.
>If known, I would note the primary source that was used for the
>trascription, index etc. - either in the citation or as a note to the
>source.
>(My goal would in any case would be to view the original myself, depending
>on how important the information is for me.)
>One example is the Familysearch index, if there is no link to the digital
>image:
>In this case I would have Familysearch (Index) as the repository and the
>name of the FS-collection (Baptisms Germany 1500-1950) as the source.
>Familysearch provides a suggestion on how to cite those entries. I would put
>all of this information into the citation field, except the parts that I
>already have in the source information.
>
>Your example can be found here on Familysearch:
>https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JQ9T-44M
>1) In your case I would preferably look up the digital image and cite the
>original parish record (repository Familysearch)
>2) If the image were not available and just the index, I would take the
>citation suggestion by Familysearch. They propose:
>"England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975," database, FamilySearch
>(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JQ9T-44M : 12 February 2018, Jane
>White, ); citing item 2 p 282, index based upon data collected by the
>Genealogical Society of Utah, Salt Lake City; FHL microfilm 1,545,476.
>As said, I would take Familysearch (dtabase) as the repository:   "England
>Births and Christenings, 1538-1975" (Index) as the source and all the rest
>(Jane White 14 Apr 1834; citing item 2 p 282, FHL microfilm 1,545,476) as
>the citiation information.
>
>I would also keep this structure for OPC:
>- repository is the OPC website
>- source "Parish records Emmanuel, Holcombe - Transcription"
>- citation: Baptism 14 Apr 1834, Jane White; citing Baptisms 1820 - 1835,
>Page 282, Entry 2250
>
>The exact wording and structure are of course a matter of preference.
>My intention was more to point out the difference between citing a primary
>and a secondary source.
>
>
>Complicated? Maybe, but hopefully understandable.
>
>Michael
>
>-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>From: phil wharram via Gramps-users
>Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2018 9:46 AM
>To: Peter Merchant ; [hidden email]
>Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] How to properly reference a pointer to a source.
>
>
>
>
>Hi Peter
>
>Agree with you on amount of work but maybe the most precise
>
>Note the original registers in this case are at Manchester Archive so
>that is the only repository as far as I see
>
>The latter Day Saints, have a filmed copy
>
>The LanOPC website hold  a transcription
>
>So my take on this is to keep it simple but I feel I might be breaching
>all sorts of codes and guidance
>
>Repository Manchester Archives
>
>Source Lancashire OPC
>
>Citation Baptism register for Parish of
>Emmanuel, Holcombe, Lancashire 1726-1948
>
>
>
>Regards
>Phil
>MLFHS 12583
>Dumfries
>On 20/10/2018 08:28, Peter Merchant wrote:
>> Michael,
>> I feel that this is just creating work. OK, I can create one repository,
>> but I am going to have MANY sources for all the different churches that I
>> have accessed, and a citation per person when I already have the
>> information as a note to that person.
>>
>> Because as George says the original transcriptions are in Manchester
>> library or the Genealogical Society of Utah, shouldn't they be the
>> repository and work down from there?
>>
>> Peter
>>
>>
>>
>> On 19/10/2018 22:23, Michael Stockhausen wrote:
>>> Peter,
>>> I would create a repository "Lancashire On-line Parish Clerks "
>>> (database, URL: http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/indexp.html) and a source
>>> "Parish records Emmanuel, Holcombe - Transcription" (in the call no.
>>> field: http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Bury/Holcombe/emmanuel/index.html).  I
>>> would add the word "transciption" or something similar to underline that
>>> your source was not the original parish record.
>>> The citation could be something like "Baptism of Jane White on 14 Apr
>>> 1834"
>>> The details below can be put into a note to the baptism event.
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- From: Peter Merchant
>>> Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 10:15 PM
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Subject: [Gramps-users] How to properly reference a pointer to a source.
>>>
>>> At the moment a common resource that I use is the Lancashire On-line
>>> Parish Clerks  database, but I feel that this is just supplying pointers
>>> to the actual resource. How should I enter it?
>>>
>>> http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Bury/Holcombe/emmanuel/index.html  and here is
>>> an example:
>>>
>>> Baptism: 14 Apr 1834 Emmanuel, Holcombe, Lancashire, England
>>> Jane White - Daughter of James Entwistle, Repd. Father & Nancy White
>>>      Born: 14 Apr
>>>      Abode: Nuttall
>>>      Occupation: Piecer
>>>      Baptised by: W. Holt Incumbent Curate
>>>      Register: Baptisms 1820 - 1835, Page 282, Entry 2250
>>>      Source: Original Parish Register at Manchester Archives
>>>
>>>
>>> I have been putting it in as note on the person.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Peter M.
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Gramps-users mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
>>> https://gramps-project.org
>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gramps-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
>> https://gramps-project.org
>>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Gramps-users mailing list
>[hidden email]
>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
>https://gramps-project.org 
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Gramps-users mailing list
>[hidden email]
>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
>https://gramps-project.org




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Re: Fw: How to properly reference a pointer to a source.

Michael Stockhausen
In reply to this post by Michael Stockhausen
Sorry, I made one mistake:

I would add the name of the FHL microfilm (Parish records Emmanuel,
Holcombe) in my citation when citing the Familysearch index:

Jane White 14 Apr 1834; citing Parish records Emmanuel, Holcombe, item 2 p
282, FHL microfilm 1,545,476



-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
From: Michael Stockhausen
Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2018 11:32 AM
To: Peter Merchant ; [hidden email]
Subject: [Gramps-users] Fw: How to properly reference a pointer to a source.

Hi Peter and Phil,

in general I would say that there is no right or wrong, just personal
preference.
But having the Manchester Archives as the repository and the OPC as the
source does not feel right for me.
After all, the OPC and the original parish records are two different
sources. How do you know that the transciption is correct?

I usually distinguish between two different sources:

A) the original parish records
They can be in different repositories and/or formats:
- the original manuscripts in the local archive
- the LDS microfilm
- digital images on Familysearch or Ancestry
- digital images on other websites. This could be OPC, if they had images
online (but they don't)
This is all the same source for me, as I always view the original parish
records or images of them; just different repositories and formats (media
types).


B) transciptions or indexes or information received from other researchers
(without copies of the original records) or anything similar
These are all separate sources.
If known, I would note the primary source that was used for the
trascription, index etc. - either in the citation or as a note to the
source.
(My goal would in any case would be to view the original myself, depending
on how important the information is for me.)
One example is the Familysearch index, if there is no link to the digital
image:
In this case I would have Familysearch (Index) as the repository and the
name of the FS-collection (Baptisms Germany 1500-1950) as the source.
Familysearch provides a suggestion on how to cite those entries. I would put
all of this information into the citation field, except the parts that I
already have in the source information.

Your example can be found here on Familysearch:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JQ9T-44M
1) In your case I would preferably look up the digital image and cite the
original parish record (repository Familysearch)
2) If the image were not available and just the index, I would take the
citation suggestion by Familysearch. They propose:
"England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975," database, FamilySearch
(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JQ9T-44M : 12 February 2018, Jane
White, ); citing item 2 p 282, index based upon data collected by the
Genealogical Society of Utah, Salt Lake City; FHL microfilm 1,545,476.
As said, I would take Familysearch (dtabase) as the repository:   "England
Births and Christenings, 1538-1975" (Index) as the source and all the rest
(Jane White 14 Apr 1834; citing Parish records Emmanuel, Holcombe, item 2 p
282, FHL microfilm 1,545,476) as
the citiation information.

I would also keep this structure for OPC:
- repository is the OPC website
- source "Parish records Emmanuel, Holcombe - Transcription"
- citation: Baptism 14 Apr 1834, Jane White; citing Baptisms 1820 - 1835,
Page 282, Entry 2250

The exact wording and structure are of course a matter of preference.
My intention was more to point out the difference between citing a primary
and a secondary source.


Complicated? Maybe, but hopefully understandable.

Michael

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
From: phil wharram via Gramps-users
Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2018 9:46 AM
To: Peter Merchant ; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] How to properly reference a pointer to a source.




Hi Peter

Agree with you on amount of work but maybe the most precise

Note the original registers in this case are at Manchester Archive so
that is the only repository as far as I see

The latter Day Saints, have a filmed copy

The LanOPC website hold  a transcription

So my take on this is to keep it simple but I feel I might be breaching
all sorts of codes and guidance

Repository Manchester Archives

Source Lancashire OPC

Citation Baptism register for Parish of
Emmanuel, Holcombe, Lancashire 1726-1948



Regards
Phil
MLFHS 12583
Dumfries
On 20/10/2018 08:28, Peter Merchant wrote:

> Michael,
> I feel that this is just creating work. OK, I can create one repository,
> but I am going to have MANY sources for all the different churches that I
> have accessed, and a citation per person when I already have the
> information as a note to that person.
>
> Because as George says the original transcriptions are in Manchester
> library or the Genealogical Society of Utah, shouldn't they be the
> repository and work down from there?
>
> Peter
>
>
>
> On 19/10/2018 22:23, Michael Stockhausen wrote:
>> Peter,
>> I would create a repository "Lancashire On-line Parish Clerks "
>> (database, URL: http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/indexp.html) and a source
>> "Parish records Emmanuel, Holcombe - Transcription" (in the call no.
>> field: http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Bury/Holcombe/emmanuel/index.html).  I
>> would add the word "transciption" or something similar to underline that
>> your source was not the original parish record.
>> The citation could be something like "Baptism of Jane White on 14 Apr
>> 1834"
>> The details below can be put into a note to the baptism event.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- From: Peter Merchant
>> Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 10:15 PM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: [Gramps-users] How to properly reference a pointer to a source.
>>
>> At the moment a common resource that I use is the Lancashire On-line
>> Parish Clerks  database, but I feel that this is just supplying pointers
>> to the actual resource. How should I enter it?
>>
>> http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Bury/Holcombe/emmanuel/index.html  and here is
>> an example:
>>
>> Baptism: 14 Apr 1834 Emmanuel, Holcombe, Lancashire, England
>> Jane White - Daughter of James Entwistle, Repd. Father & Nancy White
>>      Born: 14 Apr
>>      Abode: Nuttall
>>      Occupation: Piecer
>>      Baptised by: W. Holt Incumbent Curate
>>      Register: Baptisms 1820 - 1835, Page 282, Entry 2250
>>      Source: Original Parish Register at Manchester Archives
>>
>>
>> I have been putting it in as note on the person.
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Peter M.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gramps-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
>> https://gramps-project.org
>> .
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
> https://gramps-project.org
>


_______________________________________________
Gramps-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
https://gramps-project.org



_______________________________________________
Gramps-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
https://gramps-project.org 



_______________________________________________
Gramps-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
https://gramps-project.org