[Fwd: Call name]

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
48 messages Options
123
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Fwd: Call name]

Duncan Lithgow-2
I understand all the objections to me saying we should move move
'callnames' away. Here is my slightly clearer explanation:

'rufname' ('callname' if we transliterate it) should only be used for
people who have a name with the legal definition 'rufname' - no other
use case.

'rufname' should therefore be moved to the spin menu as a 'Name type'
like 'Married name'. It should not be translated - so if people don't
know what it is they won't use it.

Ok, so now what about all the other legal names people need? I think
they should also be added to this list, or the list should have a new
entry called 'Create new name type...' which opens a dialog for
creating new name types. People are simply not aware that they can
type a new type in this field, I personally don't think it's intuitive
anyway.

So, that's my thoughts on that.

Duncan

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes
Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
_______________________________________________
Gramps-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Fwd: Call name]

Brad Rogers
On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 12:25:26 +0200
"Duncan Lithgow" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello Duncan,

> entry called 'Create new name type...' which opens a dialog for
> creating new name types. People are simply not aware that they can
> type a new type in this field, I personally don't think it's intuitive
> anyway.

I agree;  I had to have it pointed out to me, as did several people.

What would also be nice is a method to remove entries made incorrectly.

--
 Regards  _
         / )           "The blindingly obvious is
        / _)rad        never immediately apparent"

Bet you thought you had it all worked out
Problem - Sex Pistols

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes
Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
_______________________________________________
Gramps-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users

signature.asc (204 bytes) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Fwd: Call name]

Jim Winfrey
In reply to this post by Doug-11
On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 7:52 AM, Doug <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Oh dear, I'm even more confused!
> Can one of the designers of the Person panel  tell us what he/she meant,
> so we can use it properly; and where nicknames fit in?
>
> Doug

Doug,

The nickname is entered under the "Attributes" tab.  You can choose
whether to print Attributes on most reports.  The Call Name is what I
use to enter the name a person is called.  My daughter's given name,
for instance, is Susan Elizabeth but she goes by Elizabeth.  So, I put
Elizabeth in her call name.  It works great on reports.

Jim

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes
Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
_______________________________________________
Gramps-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Fwd: Call name]

Benny Malengier
Somebody should write a wiki page with the info gathered in this thread.
Anybody?

Benny

2008/8/24 Jim Winfrey <[hidden email]>
On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 7:52 AM, Doug <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Oh dear, I'm even more confused!
> Can one of the designers of the Person panel  tell us what he/she meant,
> so we can use it properly; and where nicknames fit in?
>
> Doug

Doug,

The nickname is entered under the "Attributes" tab.  You can choose
whether to print Attributes on most reports.  The Call Name is what I
use to enter the name a person is called.  My daughter's given name,
for instance, is Susan Elizabeth but she goes by Elizabeth.  So, I put
Elizabeth in her call name.  It works great on reports.

Jim

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes
Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
_______________________________________________
Gramps-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes
Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
_______________________________________________
Gramps-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Fwd: Call name]

Doug-11
Benny Malengier wrote:

> Somebody should write a wiki page with the info gathered in this thread.
> Anybody?
>
> Benny
>
> 2008/8/24 Jim Winfrey <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>
>     On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 7:52 AM, Doug <[hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>     > Oh dear, I'm even more confused!
>     > Can one of the designers of the Person panel  tell us what
>     he/she meant,
>     > so we can use it properly; and where nicknames fit in?
>     >
>     > Doug
>
>     Doug,
>
>     The nickname is entered under the "Attributes" tab.  You can choose
>     whether to print Attributes on most reports.  The Call Name is what I
>     use to enter the name a person is called.  My daughter's given name,
>     for instance, is Susan Elizabeth but she goes by Elizabeth.  So, I put
>     Elizabeth in her call name.  It works great on reports.
>
>     Jim
>
Someone better qualified than me ought to do this and I've no experience
of Wiki.
But I'm willing to draft something to summarise the thread, since I
started this hare, and send it here for people to correct.

Doug

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes
Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
_______________________________________________
Gramps-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Fwd: Call name]

Doug-11
Doug wrote:

> Benny Malengier wrote:
>  
>> Somebody should write a wiki page with the info gathered in this thread.
>> Anybody?
>>
>> Benny
>>
>> <snip>
> Someone better qualified than me ought to do this and I've no experience
> of Wiki.
> But I'm willing to draft something to summarise the thread, since I
> started this hare, and send it here for people to correct.
>
> Doug
>
>  
Herewith a draft - please correct it!


Informal, Formal and Official names: Nicknames and Call names


People are often known familiarly and informally by a name different
from and often shorter than the official names they were given at birth:
a Nickname.
In some cultures where people are given several forenames formally at
birth, one may be meant to be used normally (typically *not* the first
of the given forenames): this is the Call Name, an official name
frequently underlined in official documents. The concept is common in
Northern Europe; the call name is often a saint's name or that of an
honoured relative; or the first name may be the 'spiritual' name, while
the call name is a secular one. There are contrasting views on whether a
shortened form of a person's name can also be a call name; some consider
that to be a nickname; as an additional complication, for example in
Sweden, the (official) call name may be a name that is different from
any of the forenames given at birth.

Handling nicknames and call names in Gramps

Call names can be entered directly in the Person Editor window

Nicknames can be handled in two ways; either as a new name type: Add
Name, overwrite 'Birth Name' with 'Nickname' in the name Type
or as a new Attribute

Changing Names:
The Names tag on the Person Editor allows name changes to be recorded;
the Type submenu on the Person Editor also offers 'Also Known As' and
'Married Name'alternatives.

The Preferred Name can be changed by selecting an alternative name and
right-clicking; then selecting 'Set as default name'



Doug

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes
Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
_______________________________________________
Gramps-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Fwd: Call name]

OldAl
In reply to this post by Doug-11
On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 03:57:43 Doug wrote:

> Benny Malengier wrote:
> > Somebody should write a wiki page with the info gathered in this thread.
> > Anybody?
> >
> > Benny
> >
> > 2008/8/24 Jim Winfrey <[hidden email]
> > <mailto:[hidden email]>>
> >
> >     On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 7:52 AM, Doug <[hidden email]
> >
> >     <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
> >     > Oh dear, I'm even more confused!
> >     > Can one of the designers of the Person panel  tell us what
> >
> >     he/she meant,
> >
> >     > so we can use it properly; and where nicknames fit in?
> >     >
> >     > Doug
> >
> >     Doug,
> >
> >     The nickname is entered under the "Attributes" tab.  You can choose
> >     whether to print Attributes on most reports.  The Call Name is what I
> >     use to enter the name a person is called.  My daughter's given name,
> >     for instance, is Susan Elizabeth but she goes by Elizabeth.  So, I
> > put Elizabeth in her call name.  It works great on reports.
> >
> >     Jim
>
> Someone better qualified than me ought to do this and I've no experience
> of Wiki.
> But I'm willing to draft something to summarise the thread, since I
> started this hare, and send it here for people to correct.
>
> Doug

Benny and Doug et al,

I do have experience of a wiki as I had managed our group's (PCUG in Canberra)
wiki for a while.  I would be happy to open a page.  I could do it right now,
being a registered user, but I do need a "nod" from Benny or Brian.

I am interested not so much in the "call-name", as this problem is probably
only a poor translation to English, rather than a programming.  

My current genealogy data in large part is in Lithuanian and the problem there
is in female surnames, rather than "call names".  However, I am interested in
importing/exporting and the possibility of merging.  Brian has urged to open
a wiki page for a thorough discussion of the merging problems.

Currently I am looking at he possibility of a more concise GUI via the
openoffice.org (ooBase part) - enough to see the difficulties of merging.
OTH, it is clear that there are good reasons for wanting a merging
implementation if such was feasible.

My weakness is that I know very little about genealogy in general and gramps
in particular.  OTOH, I do like Python and enjoy progamming in Python.  For
me the main attraction to gramps is to see a large project how a large
project in Python is developed and gramps is a good example.

OldAl.

>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's
> challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win
> great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere
> in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users



--
Dr Algis Kabaila (PhD Eng)
http://akabaila.pcug.org.au/StructuralAnalysis/
------------------------------------------------


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes
Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
_______________________________________________
Gramps-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Fwd: Call name]

Brian Matherly
> > Someone better qualified than me ought to do this and
> I've no experience
> > of Wiki.
> > But I'm willing to draft something to summarise
> the thread, since I
> > started this hare, and send it here for people to
> correct.
> >
> > Doug
>
> Benny and Doug et al,
>
> I do have experience of a wiki as I had managed our
> group's (PCUG in Canberra)
> wiki for a while.  I would be happy to open a page.  I
> could do it right now,
> being a registered user, but I do need a "nod"
> from Benny or Brian.

*nod*

Thanks for your help Al!

~Brian

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes
Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
_______________________________________________
Gramps-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Fwd: Call name]

Jim Winfrey
In reply to this post by Doug-11
On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 4:36 PM, Doug <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Doug wrote:

> Herewith a draft - please correct it!
>
>
> Informal, Formal and Official names: Nicknames and Call names
>
>
> People are often known familiarly and informally by a name different from
> and often shorter than the official names they were given at birth: a
> Nickname.
> In some cultures where people are given several forenames formally at birth,
> one may be meant to be used normally (typically *not* the first of the given
> forenames): this is the Call Name, an official name frequently underlined in
> official documents. The concept is common in Northern Europe; the call name
> is often a saint's name or that of an honoured relative; or the first name
> may be the 'spiritual' name, while the call name is a secular one. There are
> contrasting views on whether a shortened form of a person's name can also be
> a call name; some consider that to be a nickname; as an additional
> complication, for example in Sweden, the (official) call name may be a name
> that is different from any of the forenames given at birth.
>
> Handling nicknames and call names in Gramps
>
> Call names can be entered directly in the Person Editor window
>
> Nicknames can be handled in two ways; either as a new name type: Add Name,
> overwrite 'Birth Name' with 'Nickname' in the name Type
> or as a new Attribute
>
> Changing Names:
> The Names tag on the Person Editor allows name changes to be recorded; the
> Type submenu on the Person Editor also offers 'Also Known As' and 'Married
> Name'alternatives.
>
> The Preferred Name can be changed by selecting an alternative name and
> right-clicking; then selecting 'Set as default name'
>
>
>
> Doug
>

Doug,

This looks good to me.  I think the big difference between a call name
and a nickname is that the call name is part of a person's formal,
registered name and a nickname, even though it may be the commonest
name for a person, is informal and not legally registered.  This is
slightly broadening the definition you gave might be useful to folks
who are not familiar with other culture's naming conventions.

Jim

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes
Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
_______________________________________________
Gramps-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Fwd: Call name]

Benny Malengier
Let us know when the wiki page is up, and we can go over it.

Benny

2008/8/26 Jim Winfrey <[hidden email]>
On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 4:36 PM, Doug <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Doug wrote:

> Herewith a draft - please correct it!
>
>
> Informal, Formal and Official names: Nicknames and Call names
>
>
> People are often known familiarly and informally by a name different from
> and often shorter than the official names they were given at birth: a
> Nickname.
> In some cultures where people are given several forenames formally at birth,
> one may be meant to be used normally (typically *not* the first of the given
> forenames): this is the Call Name, an official name frequently underlined in
> official documents. The concept is common in Northern Europe; the call name
> is often a saint's name or that of an honoured relative; or the first name
> may be the 'spiritual' name, while the call name is a secular one. There are
> contrasting views on whether a shortened form of a person's name can also be
> a call name; some consider that to be a nickname; as an additional
> complication, for example in Sweden, the (official) call name may be a name
> that is different from any of the forenames given at birth.
>
> Handling nicknames and call names in Gramps
>
> Call names can be entered directly in the Person Editor window
>
> Nicknames can be handled in two ways; either as a new name type: Add Name,
> overwrite 'Birth Name' with 'Nickname' in the name Type
> or as a new Attribute
>
> Changing Names:
> The Names tag on the Person Editor allows name changes to be recorded; the
> Type submenu on the Person Editor also offers 'Also Known As' and 'Married
> Name'alternatives.
>
> The Preferred Name can be changed by selecting an alternative name and
> right-clicking; then selecting 'Set as default name'
>
>
>
> Doug
>

Doug,

This looks good to me.  I think the big difference between a call name
and a nickname is that the call name is part of a person's formal,
registered name and a nickname, even though it may be the commonest
name for a person, is informal and not legally registered.  This is
slightly broadening the definition you gave might be useful to folks
who are not familiar with other culture's naming conventions.

Jim


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes
Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
_______________________________________________
Gramps-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Fwd: Call name]

Doug-11
In reply to this post by Jim Winfrey
Jim Winfrey wrote:

> On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 4:36 PM, Doug <[hidden email]> wrote:
>  
> <snip>
>
> Doug,
>
> This looks good to me.  I think the big difference between a call name
> and a nickname is that the call name is part of a person's formal,
> registered name and a nickname, even though it may be the commonest
> name for a person, is informal and not legally registered.  This is
> slightly broadening the definition you gave might be useful to folks
> who are not familiar with other culture's naming conventions.
>
> Jim
>
>  
Jim,
I've slightly re-worded the beginning to try to make the difference
between nickname and call name a bit clearer for those of us who aren't
familiar with the call name concept. It's now posted as a new wiki page.
Could you and others have a look and correct it?
Doug

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes
Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
_______________________________________________
Gramps-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Fwd: Call name]

OldAl
In reply to this post by Brian Matherly
On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 12:58:54 Brian Matherly wrote:

> > > Someone better qualified than me ought to do this and
> >
> > I've no experience
> >
> > > of Wiki.
> > > But I'm willing to draft something to summarise
> >
> > the thread, since I
> >
> > > started this hare, and send it here for people to
> >
> > correct.
> >
> > > Doug
> >
> > Benny and Doug et al,
> >
> > I do have experience of a wiki as I had managed our
> > group's (PCUG in Canberra)
> > wiki for a while.  I would be happy to open a page.  I
> > could do it right now,
> > being a registered user, but I do need a "nod"
> > from Benny or Brian.
>
> *nod*
>
> Thanks for your help Al!
>
> ~Brian

I did add a link in
http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=Gramps_3.0_Wiki_Manual_-_Main_Window#People_View

to a new page to "CallName"
http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=CallName

Also, a link in CallName page to the ...People_View.  

Then started typing some text in it.  Could not save it, as in the meantime
Doug started editing it.  Good work!

I guess that if there are objections to the link from the ManualPages to
the "CallName", I will soon know about it... That's the nature of a wiki.

Thanks for the *nod*, Brian.  

Where would you like to see a link to the ImportExport page, Brian?  I think
that it is all to easy to "lose" pages, unless they are carefully linked into
a meaningful chain - a link to and a link from at least.

OldAl.

--
Dr Algis Kabaila (PhD Eng)
http://akabaila.pcug.org.au/StructuralAnalysis/
------------------------------------------------


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes
Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
_______________________________________________
Gramps-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Fwd: Call name]

Brian Matherly
Al,

> I did add a link in
> http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=Gramps_3.0_Wiki_Manual_-_Main_Window#People_View
>
> to a new page to "CallName"
> http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=CallName
>
> Also, a link in CallName page to the ...People_View.  
>
> Then started typing some text in it.  Could not save it, as
> in the meantime
> Doug started editing it.  Good work!
>
> I guess that if there are objections to the link from the
> ManualPages to
> the "CallName", I will soon know about it...
> That's the nature of a wiki.
>
> Thanks for the *nod*, Brian.  
>
> Where would you like to see a link to the ImportExport
> page, Brian?  I think
> that it is all to easy to "lose" pages, unless
> they are carefully linked into
> a meaningful chain - a link to and a link from at least.

I agree - the pages need to be linked in order to be useful. However you want to link them is fine. I trust your judgement.

~Brian

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes
Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
_______________________________________________
Gramps-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Fwd: Call name]

Benny Malengier
Al,

you should try to keep subjects seperated on the mailing list
About call names, I changed the pages to something I hope is more usefull. Note that from the manual, one should enter real links to pages not part of the manual, not wiki links.

About the merge stuff, create a GEP, see http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=Portal:Enhancement_Proposals, so make it part of http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=Category:GEPS

Benny

2008/8/26 Brian Matherly <[hidden email]>
Al,

> I did add a link in
> http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=Gramps_3.0_Wiki_Manual_-_Main_Window#People_View
>
> to a new page to "CallName"
> http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=CallName
>
> Also, a link in CallName page to the ...People_View.
>
> Then started typing some text in it.  Could not save it, as
> in the meantime
> Doug started editing it.  Good work!
>
> I guess that if there are objections to the link from the
> ManualPages to
> the "CallName", I will soon know about it...
> That's the nature of a wiki.
>
> Thanks for the *nod*, Brian.
>
> Where would you like to see a link to the ImportExport
> page, Brian?  I think
> that it is all to easy to "lose" pages, unless
> they are carefully linked into
> a meaningful chain - a link to and a link from at least.

I agree - the pages need to be linked in order to be useful. However you want to link them is fine. I trust your judgement.

~Brian

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes
Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
_______________________________________________
Gramps-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes
Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
_______________________________________________
Gramps-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Fwd: Call name]

Duncan Lithgow-2
In reply to this post by OldAl
The current link is now
http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=Names#Call_Name

I've had to question the accuracy of this page as it doesn't match my
memory of the discussion of it's meaning when this feature was
requested. Also I can't see how we can write such a definition for a
'Call name' when the concept is not in the english language, I still
think it should be written like this:

This is a sentence about using a "Rufname" (literally 'callname') in GRAMPS.

I had a quick read of the German wikipedia page about Given names
(Vorname) which has a section about the Rufname. That definition seems
different again both from what's on the wiki and from what I remember.
See http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vorname

The relevant sections are translated below:
...

"Eine Person kann mehrere Vornamen haben. Als Rufname bezeichnet man
den- oder diejenigen Vornamen, unter denen Personen normalerweise
angesprochen werden."

A person kann have several given names. The 'Rufname' indicates the
part(s) of the persons given name(s) which is normally used to address
that person.

"Bei Verwendung mehrerer Vornamen wird der Vorname, mit dem die Person
hauptsächlich angeredet („gerufen") wird, als Rufname bezeichnet. Die
Reihenfolge der Vornamen stellt keine Rangfolge dar. Nach
höchstrichterlicher Rechtsprechung (u. a. OLG Düsseldorf 3 Wx 90/98)
steht es in Deutschland dem Namensträger frei, zwischen seinen
standesamtlich eingetragenen Namen zu wählen. Ein Rufname ist also
nicht unveränderlich festgelegt."

Where a person has several given names, the given name they are
normally addressed with is called their "Rufname". The order of given
names plays no role in this. According to (some smart sounding legal
thing) people are free to choose from the names they have in the
registry of births, deaths and marriages. A "Rufname" is therefore not
fixed for life.
...

This is subtly different from the description in the wiki, and I'm
quite sure that it is slightly different in different cultures.
Therefore if we want to have the ability to record the Swedish
equivalent (which is not subject to the same restrictions as the
German Rufname) then we need to stop translating this term and keep
each regional difference separate.

Anyone know what the Swedish equivalent is called?

I have now added my translation to a new subsection of the 'Call name' section.

Duncan
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes
Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
_______________________________________________
Gramps-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Fwd: Call name]

jerome
> This is subtly different from the description in the wiki, and I'm
> quite sure that it is slightly different in different cultures.
> Therefore if we want to have the ability to record the Swedish
> equivalent (which is not subject to the same restrictions as the
> German Rufname) then we need to stop translating this term and keep
> each regional difference separate.

What should be done for translation ? It is just a field.
I thought it was something like a /usual name/, like a name given to a
pet that has nothing to do with his pedigree (parents' names,
patronymic) and used every day by people or by the veterinarian, etc...

OK, it is not a /call name/ but in France :

-----------------------------------
       
The name of use (as opposed to last name, formerly surname) is governed,
France, the circular by the Prime Minister on June 26, 1986 (published
July 3, 1986 in the Official Journal).

The circular sets out the conditions under which a person has the right
to use the name of a third. This right is granted

      * Any person, to add as use the name of the parent who has not
sent its own (this results from the application of Article 43 of Law No.
85-1372 of 23 December 1985 on various measures of social order)
      * Married women, divorced or widowed, by addition or substitution,
as usual, the name of his spouse's name: this is a recognition of an
established fact but never enshrined in law,
      * To married men, by adding only, as usual, the name of the joint
in his name.

Various combinations of name usage are possible. In ordinary times, most
people who use a name customary use a hyphen between the two names in
multiples. The circular is silent on the question of a hyphen before
being codified in France the rules of using the name usage, others have
never put a hyphen between the two names and that is tolerated:

      * Example: Christiane Desroches Noblecourt (surname staff followed
that of her husband without a hyphen).

      * Example: Jean-Louis Tixier-Vignancour (name of his father
followed by the name of his mother with the process of union - Addition).

In the latter instance, we nevertheless consider to combine the name of
the father in the first or the name of his mother in the first and vice
versa, but beware: we must deliver to all administrations the same
combination which is compulsory and indicated on identity papers.

The name of use has absolutely no bearing on the civil status of the
person, be changed only by judgement or decree, and is obviously not
transferable.

The use of a pseudonym (artists, writers, etc.) Does not include
provisions on the name of use. It is a fact established and tolerated.

source : http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nom_d%27usage

--------------------------------

       
The name of use

There is the possibility for a person to wear a name that has not
acquired in accordance with the rules of acquiring the name. It can be
used in two cases. The first results from a customary rule: the
possibility for a married woman to use her husband's name (today for
each spouse to use the name of the other.) The other case stems from the
law of December 23, 1985 which gives everyone the right to bear the name
of the parent who has not been transmitted.

1) The use of the name of a spouse.

a) During the marriage:

Marriage does not change its name to the wife (on behalf of spouses). By
the way, in all public acts, a married woman is always designated under
the name "girl" possibly followed by "wife…" or "widow…"

In the nineteenth century, when a woman is married, her husband's name
replaced the mandatory hers. Today, things have changed (more power
paternal or marital status).

The wife has no obligation to use the name of her husband and the latter
can absolutely not do so. However, it has the right to use it. The
husband can not oppose it either. If the wife uses her husband's name
with malicious intent, the husband can take the judge to withdraw this
right.

b) After the dissolution of marriage.

It depends on the mode of dissolution of marriage (death or divorce).

Dissolution by death: one accepts that the surviving spouse retains the
name of the deceased, at least until there is remarriage.

Dissolution by divorce: recall that in the event of divorce each spouse
loses the use of the name of his ex-spouse (art 264 al2) Exceptions:

      * Authorization of the ex-spouse
      * Even if one spouse may agree to continue using the name of the
ex-husband authorised by the judge if there is a particular interest in
Husband (eg profession with customers) or for children.

Schedule: in case of separation marriage is not dissolved, each spouse
retains the right to use the name of another. Unless there is abuse of
the right to use. However, the law L 2004-439 of 26 May 2004, art. 16
deleted this event

2) The use of the name of the parent who has not been acquired:

(Article 57 of the Civil Code)

According to this law, the child acquires a name at birth but can use
the name of the other parent. Case of a legitimate child who acquires
the name of his father, but may use the name of his mother. However, the
name usage is not transmitted to offspring. This rule is applicable to
legitimate children.

"Any person may require government to be appointed under a name of name
usage. "(If one proves the right to use)


source : http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nom_(droit)

----------------------------------



Duncan Lithgow a écrit :

> The current link is now
> http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=Names#Call_Name
>
> I've had to question the accuracy of this page as it doesn't match my
> memory of the discussion of it's meaning when this feature was
> requested. Also I can't see how we can write such a definition for a
> 'Call name' when the concept is not in the english language, I still
> think it should be written like this:
>
> This is a sentence about using a "Rufname" (literally 'callname') in GRAMPS.
>
> I had a quick read of the German wikipedia page about Given names
> (Vorname) which has a section about the Rufname. That definition seems
> different again both from what's on the wiki and from what I remember.
> See http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vorname
>
> The relevant sections are translated below:
> ...
>
> "Eine Person kann mehrere Vornamen haben. Als Rufname bezeichnet man
> den- oder diejenigen Vornamen, unter denen Personen normalerweise
> angesprochen werden."
>
> A person kann have several given names. The 'Rufname' indicates the
> part(s) of the persons given name(s) which is normally used to address
> that person.
>
> "Bei Verwendung mehrerer Vornamen wird der Vorname, mit dem die Person
> hauptsächlich angeredet („gerufen") wird, als Rufname bezeichnet. Die
> Reihenfolge der Vornamen stellt keine Rangfolge dar. Nach
> höchstrichterlicher Rechtsprechung (u. a. OLG Düsseldorf 3 Wx 90/98)
> steht es in Deutschland dem Namensträger frei, zwischen seinen
> standesamtlich eingetragenen Namen zu wählen. Ein Rufname ist also
> nicht unveränderlich festgelegt."
>
> Where a person has several given names, the given name they are
> normally addressed with is called their "Rufname". The order of given
> names plays no role in this. According to (some smart sounding legal
> thing) people are free to choose from the names they have in the
> registry of births, deaths and marriages. A "Rufname" is therefore not
> fixed for life.
> ...
>
> This is subtly different from the description in the wiki, and I'm
> quite sure that it is slightly different in different cultures.
> Therefore if we want to have the ability to record the Swedish
> equivalent (which is not subject to the same restrictions as the
> German Rufname) then we need to stop translating this term and keep
> each regional difference separate.
>
> Anyone know what the Swedish equivalent is called?
>
> I have now added my translation to a new subsection of the 'Call name' section.
>
> Duncan
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
> Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes
> Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
> http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes
Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
_______________________________________________
Gramps-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Fwd: Call name]

jerome
> I thought it was something like a /usual name/, like a name given to a
> pet that has nothing to do with his pedigree (parents' names,
> patronymic) and used every day by people or by the veterinarian, etc...


The usual name is the name by which a person chooses to call in daily
life, among all those who were given at birth and who are registered.

In France Article 57 of the Civil Code (Act No. 93-22 of 8 January 1993)
[1] provides that "any name inscribed on the birth certificate may be
chosen as usual surname. "

On the other hand, the Court of Cassation (First Civil Chamber,
judgement of 4 April 1991) states that "there is nothing to prevent the
use, as usual surname, any of the names appearing on the civil registers
"and that" such use is necessary to third parties and the public
authorities ".

The usual name may be listed on the national identity card upon request.
It is then presented as follows (fictional example of Ms. Isabelle Durand):

      "Name: DUPONT
      "Wife: DURAND
      "First name (s): ANNE, HENRIETTE, ISABELLE, THÉRÈSE
      "Short Name: ISABELLE"

In some areas it was very common in the nineteenth century and early
twentieth, although it is a rule that people with three names on their
birth certificate, will be called by the last of those. There are traces
of such use in personal lists of the population (Census), which for a
long time, not list that the usual name. It is found also in some Indian
Ocean islands where one takes the last name.

source : http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pr%C3%A9nom_usuel

What should be used as /call name/ ?
/Given name/ or /Last name/ !!!
Because we have both in France ...

> Call name is a transliteration of the German word Rufname or the Swedish tilltalsnamn. It is therefore sometimes a source of confusion. It is not a nickname, or necessarily the name someone is called.

The name someone is called : you are talking about the first name.
/Call name/ is for given name only ?

I admit that I never used /Call name/ field ! :-[






Jérôme a écrit :

>> This is subtly different from the description in the wiki, and I'm
>> quite sure that it is slightly different in different cultures.
>> Therefore if we want to have the ability to record the Swedish
>> equivalent (which is not subject to the same restrictions as the
>> German Rufname) then we need to stop translating this term and keep
>> each regional difference separate.
>
> What should be done for translation ? It is just a field.
> I thought it was something like a /usual name/, like a name given to a
> pet that has nothing to do with his pedigree (parents' names,
> patronymic) and used every day by people or by the veterinarian, etc...
>
> OK, it is not a /call name/ but in France :
>
> -----------------------------------
>
> The name of use (as opposed to last name, formerly surname) is governed,
> France, the circular by the Prime Minister on June 26, 1986 (published
> July 3, 1986 in the Official Journal).
>
> The circular sets out the conditions under which a person has the right
> to use the name of a third. This right is granted
>
>       * Any person, to add as use the name of the parent who has not
> sent its own (this results from the application of Article 43 of Law No.
> 85-1372 of 23 December 1985 on various measures of social order)
>       * Married women, divorced or widowed, by addition or substitution,
> as usual, the name of his spouse's name: this is a recognition of an
> established fact but never enshrined in law,
>       * To married men, by adding only, as usual, the name of the joint
> in his name.
>
> Various combinations of name usage are possible. In ordinary times, most
> people who use a name customary use a hyphen between the two names in
> multiples. The circular is silent on the question of a hyphen before
> being codified in France the rules of using the name usage, others have
> never put a hyphen between the two names and that is tolerated:
>
>       * Example: Christiane Desroches Noblecourt (surname staff followed
> that of her husband without a hyphen).
>
>       * Example: Jean-Louis Tixier-Vignancour (name of his father
> followed by the name of his mother with the process of union - Addition).
>
> In the latter instance, we nevertheless consider to combine the name of
> the father in the first or the name of his mother in the first and vice
> versa, but beware: we must deliver to all administrations the same
> combination which is compulsory and indicated on identity papers.
>
> The name of use has absolutely no bearing on the civil status of the
> person, be changed only by judgement or decree, and is obviously not
> transferable.
>
> The use of a pseudonym (artists, writers, etc.) Does not include
> provisions on the name of use. It is a fact established and tolerated.
>
> source : http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nom_d%27usage
>
> --------------------------------
>
>
> The name of use
>
> There is the possibility for a person to wear a name that has not
> acquired in accordance with the rules of acquiring the name. It can be
> used in two cases. The first results from a customary rule: the
> possibility for a married woman to use her husband's name (today for
> each spouse to use the name of the other.) The other case stems from the
> law of December 23, 1985 which gives everyone the right to bear the name
> of the parent who has not been transmitted.
>
> 1) The use of the name of a spouse.
>
> a) During the marriage:
>
> Marriage does not change its name to the wife (on behalf of spouses). By
> the way, in all public acts, a married woman is always designated under
> the name "girl" possibly followed by "wife…" or "widow…"
>
> In the nineteenth century, when a woman is married, her husband's name
> replaced the mandatory hers. Today, things have changed (more power
> paternal or marital status).
>
> The wife has no obligation to use the name of her husband and the latter
> can absolutely not do so. However, it has the right to use it. The
> husband can not oppose it either. If the wife uses her husband's name
> with malicious intent, the husband can take the judge to withdraw this
> right.
>
> b) After the dissolution of marriage.
>
> It depends on the mode of dissolution of marriage (death or divorce).
>
> Dissolution by death: one accepts that the surviving spouse retains the
> name of the deceased, at least until there is remarriage.
>
> Dissolution by divorce: recall that in the event of divorce each spouse
> loses the use of the name of his ex-spouse (art 264 al2) Exceptions:
>
>       * Authorization of the ex-spouse
>       * Even if one spouse may agree to continue using the name of the
> ex-husband authorised by the judge if there is a particular interest in
> Husband (eg profession with customers) or for children.
>
> Schedule: in case of separation marriage is not dissolved, each spouse
> retains the right to use the name of another. Unless there is abuse of
> the right to use. However, the law L 2004-439 of 26 May 2004, art. 16
> deleted this event
>
> 2) The use of the name of the parent who has not been acquired:
>
> (Article 57 of the Civil Code)
>
> According to this law, the child acquires a name at birth but can use
> the name of the other parent. Case of a legitimate child who acquires
> the name of his father, but may use the name of his mother. However, the
> name usage is not transmitted to offspring. This rule is applicable to
> legitimate children.
>
> "Any person may require government to be appointed under a name of name
> usage. "(If one proves the right to use)
>
>
> source : http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nom_(droit)
>
> ----------------------------------
>
>
>
> Duncan Lithgow a écrit :
>> The current link is now
>> http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=Names#Call_Name
>>
>> I've had to question the accuracy of this page as it doesn't match my
>> memory of the discussion of it's meaning when this feature was
>> requested. Also I can't see how we can write such a definition for a
>> 'Call name' when the concept is not in the english language, I still
>> think it should be written like this:
>>
>> This is a sentence about using a "Rufname" (literally 'callname') in GRAMPS.
>>
>> I had a quick read of the German wikipedia page about Given names
>> (Vorname) which has a section about the Rufname. That definition seems
>> different again both from what's on the wiki and from what I remember.
>> See http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vorname
>>
>> The relevant sections are translated below:
>> ...
>>
>> "Eine Person kann mehrere Vornamen haben. Als Rufname bezeichnet man
>> den- oder diejenigen Vornamen, unter denen Personen normalerweise
>> angesprochen werden."
>>
>> A person kann have several given names. The 'Rufname' indicates the
>> part(s) of the persons given name(s) which is normally used to address
>> that person.
>>
>> "Bei Verwendung mehrerer Vornamen wird der Vorname, mit dem die Person
>> hauptsächlich angeredet („gerufen") wird, als Rufname bezeichnet. Die
>> Reihenfolge der Vornamen stellt keine Rangfolge dar. Nach
>> höchstrichterlicher Rechtsprechung (u. a. OLG Düsseldorf 3 Wx 90/98)
>> steht es in Deutschland dem Namensträger frei, zwischen seinen
>> standesamtlich eingetragenen Namen zu wählen. Ein Rufname ist also
>> nicht unveränderlich festgelegt."
>>
>> Where a person has several given names, the given name they are
>> normally addressed with is called their "Rufname". The order of given
>> names plays no role in this. According to (some smart sounding legal
>> thing) people are free to choose from the names they have in the
>> registry of births, deaths and marriages. A "Rufname" is therefore not
>> fixed for life.
>> ...
>>
>> This is subtly different from the description in the wiki, and I'm
>> quite sure that it is slightly different in different cultures.
>> Therefore if we want to have the ability to record the Swedish
>> equivalent (which is not subject to the same restrictions as the
>> German Rufname) then we need to stop translating this term and keep
>> each regional difference separate.
>>
>> Anyone know what the Swedish equivalent is called?
>>
>> I have now added my translation to a new subsection of the 'Call name' section.
>>
>> Duncan
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
>> Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes
>> Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
>> http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gramps-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
> Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes
> Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
> http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes
Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
_______________________________________________
Gramps-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Fwd: Call name]

Benny Malengier
In reply to this post by Duncan Lithgow-2
Duncan,

I reordered the wiki page, and structured it. Mainly copied the text of call name page to the call name section.
I have no problem if the call name section is rewritten.
I do believe it should start with a concise definition at the top which is understandable (like the rufname you mention), and then perhaps a more verbose text with the background and uses.
The fact that callname does not exist in the UK or USA does however _not_ mean it cannot exist in the English language. One needs words for everything that exists after all.

Benny

2008/8/26 Duncan Lithgow <[hidden email]>
The current link is now
http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=Names#Call_Name

I've had to question the accuracy of this page as it doesn't match my
memory of the discussion of it's meaning when this feature was
requested. Also I can't see how we can write such a definition for a
'Call name' when the concept is not in the english language, I still
think it should be written like this:

This is a sentence about using a "Rufname" (literally 'callname') in GRAMPS.

I had a quick read of the German wikipedia page about Given names
(Vorname) which has a section about the Rufname. That definition seems
different again both from what's on the wiki and from what I remember.
See http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vorname

The relevant sections are translated below:
...

"Eine Person kann mehrere Vornamen haben. Als Rufname bezeichnet man
den- oder diejenigen Vornamen, unter denen Personen normalerweise
angesprochen werden."

A person kann have several given names. The 'Rufname' indicates the
part(s) of the persons given name(s) which is normally used to address
that person.

"Bei Verwendung mehrerer Vornamen wird der Vorname, mit dem die Person
hauptsächlich angeredet („gerufen") wird, als Rufname bezeichnet. Die
Reihenfolge der Vornamen stellt keine Rangfolge dar. Nach
höchstrichterlicher Rechtsprechung (u. a. OLG Düsseldorf 3 Wx 90/98)
steht es in Deutschland dem Namensträger frei, zwischen seinen
standesamtlich eingetragenen Namen zu wählen. Ein Rufname ist also
nicht unveränderlich festgelegt."

Where a person has several given names, the given name they are
normally addressed with is called their "Rufname". The order of given
names plays no role in this. According to (some smart sounding legal
thing) people are free to choose from the names they have in the
registry of births, deaths and marriages. A "Rufname" is therefore not
fixed for life.
...

This is subtly different from the description in the wiki, and I'm
quite sure that it is slightly different in different cultures.
Therefore if we want to have the ability to record the Swedish
equivalent (which is not subject to the same restrictions as the
German Rufname) then we need to stop translating this term and keep
each regional difference separate.

Anyone know what the Swedish equivalent is called?

I have now added my translation to a new subsection of the 'Call name' section.

Duncan
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes
Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
_______________________________________________
Gramps-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes
Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
_______________________________________________
Gramps-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Fwd: Call name]

Peter Landgren
In reply to this post by Duncan Lithgow-2

> Anyone know what the Swedish equivalent is called?
It is called "tilltalsnamn".
The "tilltalsnamn" is not defined for all Swedes. In that case
the first of the given names is used.
See (In Swedish):
http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tilltalsnamn

The German definition is very similar to the Swedish.

/Peter
 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes
Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
_______________________________________________
Gramps-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Fwd: Call name]

Bernard Banko-2
In reply to this post by jerome

Well, after all this thread, finally, why bother all that much about
this field? It doesn't hurt if it is not used. And for those that can
find some use of it, it should stay as it is. Whether it is call name or
nickname or something else. All it matters is how it is presented in the
reports, and it seems just fine to have it in parenthesis p.ex.: Edouard
Kovacs (Eddy). [btw, I miss the same functionality for the "-" ; omit
the - sign when there's no call name].

Bernard.

Dne 26.08.2008 (tor) ob 15:48 +0200 je Jérôme zapisal(a):

> > I thought it was something like a /usual name/, like a name given to a
> > pet that has nothing to do with his pedigree (parents' names,
> > patronymic) and used every day by people or by the veterinarian, etc...
>
>
> The usual name is the name by which a person chooses to call in daily
> life, among all those who were given at birth and who are registered.
>
> In France Article 57 of the Civil Code (Act No. 93-22 of 8 January 1993)
> [1] provides that "any name inscribed on the birth certificate may be
> chosen as usual surname. "
>
> On the other hand, the Court of Cassation (First Civil Chamber,
> judgement of 4 April 1991) states that "there is nothing to prevent the
> use, as usual surname, any of the names appearing on the civil registers
> "and that" such use is necessary to third parties and the public
> authorities ".
>
> The usual name may be listed on the national identity card upon request.
> It is then presented as follows (fictional example of Ms. Isabelle Durand):
>
>       "Name: DUPONT
>       "Wife: DURAND
>       "First name (s): ANNE, HENRIETTE, ISABELLE, THÉRÈSE
>       "Short Name: ISABELLE"
>
> In some areas it was very common in the nineteenth century and early
> twentieth, although it is a rule that people with three names on their
> birth certificate, will be called by the last of those. There are traces
> of such use in personal lists of the population (Census), which for a
> long time, not list that the usual name. It is found also in some Indian
> Ocean islands where one takes the last name.
>
> source : http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pr%C3%A9nom_usuel
>
> What should be used as /call name/ ?
> /Given name/ or /Last name/ !!!
> Because we have both in France ...
>
> > Call name is a transliteration of the German word Rufname or the Swedish tilltalsnamn. It is therefore sometimes a source of confusion. It is not a nickname, or necessarily the name someone is called.
>
> The name someone is called : you are talking about the first name.
> /Call name/ is for given name only ?
>
> I admit that I never used /Call name/ field ! :-[
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Jérôme a écrit :
> >> This is subtly different from the description in the wiki, and I'm
> >> quite sure that it is slightly different in different cultures.
> >> Therefore if we want to have the ability to record the Swedish
> >> equivalent (which is not subject to the same restrictions as the
> >> German Rufname) then we need to stop translating this term and keep
> >> each regional difference separate.
> >
> > What should be done for translation ? It is just a field.
> > I thought it was something like a /usual name/, like a name given to a
> > pet that has nothing to do with his pedigree (parents' names,
> > patronymic) and used every day by people or by the veterinarian, etc...
> >
> > OK, it is not a /call name/ but in France :
> >
> > -----------------------------------
> >
> > The name of use (as opposed to last name, formerly surname) is governed,
> > France, the circular by the Prime Minister on June 26, 1986 (published
> > July 3, 1986 in the Official Journal).
> >
> > The circular sets out the conditions under which a person has the right
> > to use the name of a third. This right is granted
> >
> >       * Any person, to add as use the name of the parent who has not
> > sent its own (this results from the application of Article 43 of Law No.
> > 85-1372 of 23 December 1985 on various measures of social order)
> >       * Married women, divorced or widowed, by addition or substitution,
> > as usual, the name of his spouse's name: this is a recognition of an
> > established fact but never enshrined in law,
> >       * To married men, by adding only, as usual, the name of the joint
> > in his name.
> >
> > Various combinations of name usage are possible. In ordinary times, most
> > people who use a name customary use a hyphen between the two names in
> > multiples. The circular is silent on the question of a hyphen before
> > being codified in France the rules of using the name usage, others have
> > never put a hyphen between the two names and that is tolerated:
> >
> >       * Example: Christiane Desroches Noblecourt (surname staff followed
> > that of her husband without a hyphen).
> >
> >       * Example: Jean-Louis Tixier-Vignancour (name of his father
> > followed by the name of his mother with the process of union - Addition).
> >
> > In the latter instance, we nevertheless consider to combine the name of
> > the father in the first or the name of his mother in the first and vice
> > versa, but beware: we must deliver to all administrations the same
> > combination which is compulsory and indicated on identity papers.
> >
> > The name of use has absolutely no bearing on the civil status of the
> > person, be changed only by judgement or decree, and is obviously not
> > transferable.
> >
> > The use of a pseudonym (artists, writers, etc.) Does not include
> > provisions on the name of use. It is a fact established and tolerated.
> >
> > source : http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nom_d%27usage
> >
> > --------------------------------
> >
> >
> > The name of use
> >
> > There is the possibility for a person to wear a name that has not
> > acquired in accordance with the rules of acquiring the name. It can be
> > used in two cases. The first results from a customary rule: the
> > possibility for a married woman to use her husband's name (today for
> > each spouse to use the name of the other.) The other case stems from the
> > law of December 23, 1985 which gives everyone the right to bear the name
> > of the parent who has not been transmitted.
> >
> > 1) The use of the name of a spouse.
> >
> > a) During the marriage:
> >
> > Marriage does not change its name to the wife (on behalf of spouses). By
> > the way, in all public acts, a married woman is always designated under
> > the name "girl" possibly followed by "wife…" or "widow…"
> >
> > In the nineteenth century, when a woman is married, her husband's name
> > replaced the mandatory hers. Today, things have changed (more power
> > paternal or marital status).
> >
> > The wife has no obligation to use the name of her husband and the latter
> > can absolutely not do so. However, it has the right to use it. The
> > husband can not oppose it either. If the wife uses her husband's name
> > with malicious intent, the husband can take the judge to withdraw this
> > right.
> >
> > b) After the dissolution of marriage.
> >
> > It depends on the mode of dissolution of marriage (death or divorce).
> >
> > Dissolution by death: one accepts that the surviving spouse retains the
> > name of the deceased, at least until there is remarriage.
> >
> > Dissolution by divorce: recall that in the event of divorce each spouse
> > loses the use of the name of his ex-spouse (art 264 al2) Exceptions:
> >
> >       * Authorization of the ex-spouse
> >       * Even if one spouse may agree to continue using the name of the
> > ex-husband authorised by the judge if there is a particular interest in
> > Husband (eg profession with customers) or for children.
> >
> > Schedule: in case of separation marriage is not dissolved, each spouse
> > retains the right to use the name of another. Unless there is abuse of
> > the right to use. However, the law L 2004-439 of 26 May 2004, art. 16
> > deleted this event
> >
> > 2) The use of the name of the parent who has not been acquired:
> >
> > (Article 57 of the Civil Code)
> >
> > According to this law, the child acquires a name at birth but can use
> > the name of the other parent. Case of a legitimate child who acquires
> > the name of his father, but may use the name of his mother. However, the
> > name usage is not transmitted to offspring. This rule is applicable to
> > legitimate children.
> >
> > "Any person may require government to be appointed under a name of name
> > usage. "(If one proves the right to use)
> >
> >
> > source : http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nom_(droit)
> >
> > ----------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> > Duncan Lithgow a écrit :
> >> The current link is now
> >> http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=Names#Call_Name
> >>
> >> I've had to question the accuracy of this page as it doesn't match my
> >> memory of the discussion of it's meaning when this feature was
> >> requested. Also I can't see how we can write such a definition for a
> >> 'Call name' when the concept is not in the english language, I still
> >> think it should be written like this:
> >>
> >> This is a sentence about using a "Rufname" (literally 'callname') in GRAMPS.
> >>
> >> I had a quick read of the German wikipedia page about Given names
> >> (Vorname) which has a section about the Rufname. That definition seems
> >> different again both from what's on the wiki and from what I remember.
> >> See http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vorname
> >>
> >> The relevant sections are translated below:
> >> ...
> >>
> >> "Eine Person kann mehrere Vornamen haben. Als Rufname bezeichnet man
> >> den- oder diejenigen Vornamen, unter denen Personen normalerweise
> >> angesprochen werden."
> >>
> >> A person kann have several given names. The 'Rufname' indicates the
> >> part(s) of the persons given name(s) which is normally used to address
> >> that person.
> >>
> >> "Bei Verwendung mehrerer Vornamen wird der Vorname, mit dem die Person
> >> hauptsächlich angeredet („gerufen") wird, als Rufname bezeichnet. Die
> >> Reihenfolge der Vornamen stellt keine Rangfolge dar. Nach
> >> höchstrichterlicher Rechtsprechung (u. a. OLG Düsseldorf 3 Wx 90/98)
> >> steht es in Deutschland dem Namensträger frei, zwischen seinen
> >> standesamtlich eingetragenen Namen zu wählen. Ein Rufname ist also
> >> nicht unveränderlich festgelegt."
> >>
> >> Where a person has several given names, the given name they are
> >> normally addressed with is called their "Rufname". The order of given
> >> names plays no role in this. According to (some smart sounding legal
> >> thing) people are free to choose from the names they have in the
> >> registry of births, deaths and marriages. A "Rufname" is therefore not
> >> fixed for life.
> >> ...
> >>
> >> This is subtly different from the description in the wiki, and I'm
> >> quite sure that it is slightly different in different cultures.
> >> Therefore if we want to have the ability to record the Swedish
> >> equivalent (which is not subject to the same restrictions as the
> >> German Rufname) then we need to stop translating this term and keep
> >> each regional difference separate.
> >>
> >> Anyone know what the Swedish equivalent is called?
> >>
> >> I have now added my translation to a new subsection of the 'Call name' section.
> >>
> >> Duncan
> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
> >> Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes
> >> Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
> >> http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Gramps-users mailing list
> >> [hidden email]
> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
> > Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes
> > Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
> > http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
> > _______________________________________________
> > Gramps-users mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
> Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes
> Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
> http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes
Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
_______________________________________________
Gramps-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
123