[Fwd: Call name]

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Re: [Fwd: Call name]

Michael Lightfoot-2
On Wednesday 27 August 2008 04:09:53 Bernard wrote:
> Well, after all this thread, finally, why bother all that much about
> this field? It doesn't hurt if it is not used. And for those that can
> find some use of it, it should stay as it is. Whether it is call name or
> nickname or something else. All it matters is how it is presented in the
> reports, and it seems just fine to have it in parenthesis p.ex.: Edouard
> Kovacs (Eddy). [btw, I miss the same functionality for the "-" ; omit
> the - sign when there's no call name].
>
I have kept out of this discussion as it seemed to me that it is all rather
pointless.  I use the callname as a nickname field because that is
appropriate for my culture.  I don't give a fig what other people use it for.  
Maybe I'm being somehow unsound by doing this, but it works for me so that's
all that matters in the end.

Now let's stop wasting electrons, even if they are recyclable.  :-)

--
====
Michael Lightfoot
Canberra, Australia
OPC Merther & St Clement, Cornwall
see http://www.cornwall-opc.org
[hidden email]
====

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Re: [Fwd: Call name]

Martin Ewing


On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 6:11 PM, Michael Lightfoot <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Wednesday 27 August 2008 04:09:53 Bernard wrote:
> Well, after all this thread, finally, why bother all that much about
> this field? It doesn't hurt if it is not used. And for those that can
> find some use of it, it should stay as it is. Whether it is call name or
> nickname or something else. All it matters is how it is presented in the
> reports, and it seems just fine to have it in parenthesis p.ex.: Edouard
> Kovacs (Eddy). [btw, I miss the same functionality for the "-" ; omit
> the - sign when there's no call name].
>
I have kept out of this discussion as it seemed to me that it is all rather
pointless.  I use the callname as a nickname field because that is
appropriate for my culture.  I don't give a fig what other people use it for.
Maybe I'm being somehow unsound by doing this, but it works for me so that's
all that matters in the end.

Now let's stop wasting electrons, even if they are recyclable.  :-)

--
====
Michael Lightfoot
Canberra, Australia
OPC Merther & St Clement, Cornwall
see http://www.cornwall-opc.org
[hidden email]
====

That's more or less my sentiment.  Except these days we very often have multiple cultures in one family.  Some might use call names and some nicknames.  So there's some reason to look for a solution that accommodates all schemes.  Unfortunately, the perfect general scheme will probably be unwieldy for everybody.

I can't see putting nicknames into the alternate names area -- it's so inconvenient to work with.

Cheers!

--
Martin Ewing, AA6E
Branford, CT

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Re: [Fwd: Call name]

Douglas S. Blank
Martin Ewing wrote:

>     I have kept out of this discussion as it seemed to me that it is all
>     rather
>     pointless.  I use the callname as a nickname field because that is
>     appropriate for my culture.  I don't give a fig what other people
>     use it for.
>     Maybe I'm being somehow unsound by doing this, but it works for me
>     so that's
>     all that matters in the end.
>
>     Now let's stop wasting electrons, even if they are recyclable.  :-)
>
> That's more or less my sentiment.  Except these days we very often have
> multiple cultures in one family.  Some might use call names and some
> nicknames.  So there's some reason to look for a solution that
> accommodates all schemes.  Unfortunately, the perfect general scheme
> will probably be unwieldy for everybody.
>
> I can't see putting nicknames into the alternate names area -- it's so
> inconvenient to work with.
>
> Cheers!
>
> --
> Martin Ewing, AA6E
> Branford, CT

I've coded the calendar report to use call name as a nick name. No one
has complained about that, so I'm happy, too.

-Doug



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Re: [Fwd: Call name]

OldAl
In reply to this post by Benny Malengier
Brian, Benny et al,

Thank you both for your informative replies.

On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 22:00:32 Benny Malengier wrote:

> Al,
>
> you should try to keep subjects seperated on the mailing list
> About call names, I changed the pages to something I hope is more usefull.
> Note that from the manual, one should enter real links to pages not part of
> the manual, not wiki links.
>
> About the merge stuff, create a GEP, see
> http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=Portal:Enhancement_Proposals
>, so make it part of
> http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=Category:GEPS
>
> Benny
>
Yes, I expected that a link from the Manual may not be a good idea.  Clearly,
it is not. It seems that it has been changed to point to a page on
Import_Export.  If there is to be a page on "CallName", then I would like to
add it to GEP, if there are no objections.

A it is quite misleading to point ot the Import_Export from a link in the
Manual, which seems to be the case right now.  That will need to be changed -
into something...

I wholheartedly agree that the I should separate the "subjects" in the mailing
list(s), which I did not strictly do, even in this email.  Actually, I should  
repeat the Import_Export bit in the developers list.

Al.

>
> 2008/8/26 Brian Matherly <[hidden email]>
>
> > Al,
> >
> > > I did add a link in
> >
> > http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=Gramps_3.0_Wiki_Manual_-_M
> >ain_Window#People_View
> >
> > > to a new page to "CallName"
> > > http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=CallName
> > >
> > > Also, a link in CallName page to the ...People_View.
> > >
> > > Then started typing some text in it.  Could not save it, as
> > > in the meantime
> > > Doug started editing it.  Good work!
> > >
> > > I guess that if there are objections to the link from the
> > > ManualPages to
> > > the "CallName", I will soon know about it...
> > > That's the nature of a wiki.
> > >
> > > Thanks for the *nod*, Brian.
> > >
> > > Where would you like to see a link to the ImportExport
> > > page, Brian?  I think
> > > that it is all to easy to "lose" pages, unless
> > > they are carefully linked into
> > > a meaningful chain - a link to and a link from at least.
> >
> > I agree - the pages need to be linked in order to be useful. However you
> > want to link them is fine. I trust your judgement.
> >
> > ~Brian
> >
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--
Dr Algis Kabaila (PhD Eng)
http://akabaila.pcug.org.au/StructuralAnalysis/
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Re: [Fwd: Call name]

Eero Tamminen-3
In reply to this post by Doug-11
Hi,

On Monday 25 August 2008, Doug wrote:
> In some cultures where people are given several forenames formally at
> birth, one may be meant to be used normally (typically *not* the first
> of the given forenames): this is the Call Name, an official name
> frequently underlined in official documents.

I'd either leave the comment in parenthesis out or specify in which
countries it's typical (in Finland call name is AFAIK usually the first
one).


        - Eero

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Re: [Fwd: Call name]

Eero Tamminen-3
In reply to this post by Peter Landgren
Hi,

On Tuesday 26 August 2008, Peter Landgren wrote:
> > Anyone know what the Swedish equivalent is called?
>
> It is called "tilltalsnamn".
> The "tilltalsnamn" is not defined for all Swedes. In that case
> the first of the given names is used.
> See (In Swedish):
> http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tilltalsnamn
>
> The German definition is very similar to the Swedish.

Pretty close to Finland also.

Translation from: http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etunimi
---------------------
If person has multiple forenames, his/her parent/legal guardian or
him/herself can select one of his/her names as a call name. Most people use
the first forename, but some use second, or third, or even two forenames
as the call name.

The call name use is not regulated by the name law, it's more of common
practice.  Call name can be registered after which the authorities are
required to use it.  In forms and catalogs call name is usually underlined
or listed separately.
---------------------

As to the comments about people who don't care about this discussion,
well, call name is something official and person can have only one call
name at the same time, but several nick names.  There needs to be some
way to differentiate (typographically) between these two in reports.

(As there can be several nick names at the same time, and different ones may
be used by different persons, they could be just mentioned in notes: "Mary
called George often "puppy", but she was the only allowed to do that, the
others called him "Mr G." or "The head honcho".)


        - Eero

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Re: [Fwd: Call name]

OldAl
On Wed, 3 Sep 2008 05:31:54 Eero Tamminen wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Tuesday 26 August 2008, Peter Landgren wrote:
> > > Anyone know what the Swedish equivalent is called?
> >
> > It is called "tilltalsnamn".
> > The "tilltalsnamn" is not defined for all Swedes. In that case
> > the first of the given names is used.
> > See (In Swedish):
> > http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tilltalsnamn
> >
> > The German definition is very similar to the Swedish.
>
> Pretty close to Finland also.
>
> Translation from: http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etunimi
> ---------------------
> If person has multiple forenames, his/her parent/legal guardian or
> him/herself can select one of his/her names as a call name. Most people use
> the first forename, but some use second, or third, or even two forenames
> as the call name.
>
> The call name use is not regulated by the name law, it's more of common
> practice.  Call name can be registered after which the authorities are
> required to use it.  In forms and catalogs call name is usually underlined
> or listed separately.
> ---------------------
>
> As to the comments about people who don't care about this discussion,
> well, call name is something official and person can have only one call
> name at the same time, but several nick names.  There needs to be some
> way to differentiate (typographically) between these two in reports.
>
> (As there can be several nick names at the same time, and different ones
> may be used by different persons, they could be just mentioned in notes:
> "Mary called George often "puppy", but she was the only allowed to do that,
> the others called him "Mr G." or "The head honcho".)
>
>
> - Eero

As someone of North European origin, I come back to this thread. Yes,
my "Preferred Name" happens to be an abbreviation of my second Christian
Name.  "Call Name" is a poor translation of "Rufname" (or its "Rufname's"
Nordic equivlalent.  

For me, "Call Name"  just does not sound right in English. "Preferred Name"
would be a better choice than "Call Name". Perhaps because in English we
(you) have expressions like "Call Girl", meaning a prostitute. "To call"
figures in expressions like "are you calling me a liar"; "don't you dare to
call me a b. bastard"; "Stop calling me names" etc, etc.  It is never
advisable to translate word by word, so whilst "Ruf" is call, "Name" is name,
the "Ruf Name" is better translated as "Preferred Name", IMHO.

English, of course, is full of ambiguities: "Should we turn right? It's better
to turn left, right?"; "In C one counts from zero, not from one" <- there is
only one numbeal one there.  And so on.  But, like it or hate it, English is
easy to use and "bad English" is the international language.

I don't think this discussion is leading anywhere when people take such
entrenched positions.  On the wiki, if you search for "CallName", you will be
directed to a page on csv input that has some information on the topic of
names.  There is a tab "discussion:, which could well be used for more
targeted discussion. It is a better place to argue "the toss", if you know
what I mean (pardon my Aussie English)...

Once there is a viable version of information in the "discussion", we could
transfer it to a separate page in the wiki. I would entitle it  "Preferred
Names", since the search for a "CallName" in the wiki redirects to the csv
input information.  In the page on csv, we could have a link pointing to
the "Preferred Name" page and in the new page - a link to the calling page.

OldAl.

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Re: [Fwd: Call name]

Paul Blair
I'm not a fan of labels, to tell the truth.

In written genealogy, I just underline the usual/preferred name. No need for
elaborate translations...

Paul

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:gramps-users-
> [hidden email]] On Behalf Of Algis Kabaila
> Sent: Wednesday, 3 September 2008 9:59am
> To: [hidden email]
> Cc: Jim Winfrey; Duncan Lithgow; Eero Tamminen
> Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] [Fwd: Call name]
>
> On Wed, 3 Sep 2008 05:31:54 Eero Tamminen wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > On Tuesday 26 August 2008, Peter Landgren wrote:
> > > > Anyone know what the Swedish equivalent is called?
> > >
> > > It is called "tilltalsnamn".
> > > The "tilltalsnamn" is not defined for all Swedes. In that case
> > > the first of the given names is used.
> > > See (In Swedish):
> > > http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tilltalsnamn
> > >
> > > The German definition is very similar to the Swedish.
> >
> > Pretty close to Finland also.
> >
> > Translation from: http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etunimi
> > ---------------------
> > If person has multiple forenames, his/her parent/legal guardian or
> > him/herself can select one of his/her names as a call name. Most
> people use
> > the first forename, but some use second, or third, or even two
> forenames
> > as the call name.
> >
> > The call name use is not regulated by the name law, it's more of
> common
> > practice.  Call name can be registered after which the authorities
> are
> > required to use it.  In forms and catalogs call name is usually
> underlined
> > or listed separately.
> > ---------------------
> >
> > As to the comments about people who don't care about this discussion,
> > well, call name is something official and person can have only one
> call
> > name at the same time, but several nick names.  There needs to be
> some
> > way to differentiate (typographically) between these two in reports.
> >
> > (As there can be several nick names at the same time, and different
> ones
> > may be used by different persons, they could be just mentioned in
> notes:
> > "Mary called George often "puppy", but she was the only allowed to do
> that,
> > the others called him "Mr G." or "The head honcho".)
> >
> >
> > - Eero
>
> As someone of North European origin, I come back to this thread. Yes,
> my "Preferred Name" happens to be an abbreviation of my second
> Christian
> Name.  "Call Name" is a poor translation of "Rufname" (or its
> "Rufname's"
> Nordic equivlalent.
>
> For me, "Call Name"  just does not sound right in English. "Preferred
> Name"
> would be a better choice than "Call Name". Perhaps because in English
> we
> (you) have expressions like "Call Girl", meaning a prostitute. "To
> call"
> figures in expressions like "are you calling me a liar"; "don't you
> dare to
> call me a b. bastard"; "Stop calling me names" etc, etc.  It is never
> advisable to translate word by word, so whilst "Ruf" is call, "Name" is
> name,
> the "Ruf Name" is better translated as "Preferred Name", IMHO.
>
> English, of course, is full of ambiguities: "Should we turn right? It's
> better
> to turn left, right?"; "In C one counts from zero, not from one" <-
> there is
> only one numbeal one there.  And so on.  But, like it or hate it,
> English is
> easy to use and "bad English" is the international language.
>
> I don't think this discussion is leading anywhere when people take such
> entrenched positions.  On the wiki, if you search for "CallName", you
> will be
> directed to a page on csv input that has some information on the topic
> of
> names.  There is a tab "discussion:, which could well be used for more
> targeted discussion. It is a better place to argue "the toss", if you
> know
> what I mean (pardon my Aussie English)...
>
> Once there is a viable version of information in the "discussion", we
> could
> transfer it to a separate page in the wiki. I would entitle it
> "Preferred
> Names", since the search for a "CallName" in the wiki redirects to the
> csv
> input information.  In the page on csv, we could have a link pointing
> to
> the "Preferred Name" page and in the new page - a link to the calling
> page.
>
> OldAl.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
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