GEDCOM Export - REFN Tag

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GEDCOM Export - REFN Tag

Oliver Lehmann
Hi,

is there a possibility to fill in a Reference information
to a Person so it gets exported as REFN Tag in Gedcom?
I need this tag in GEDCOM and wonder how I can get it
written by Gramps. Is this Tag supported for export?

Best regards,
Oliver



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Re: GEDCOM Export - REFN Tag

prculley
The REFN tag is not often supported in other software and it has even suggested that it be deprecated for further use.

From the GEDCOM spec:
REFN {REFERENCE}:=
A description or number used to identify an item for filing, storage, or other reference purposes.

What exactly do you expect to be exported with this tag?  We could fill it with random data but that doesn't seem useful...

Paul C.

On Sun, Jul 28, 2019 at 3:34 AM Oliver Lehmann <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

is there a possibility to fill in a Reference information
to a Person so it gets exported as REFN Tag in Gedcom?
I need this tag in GEDCOM and wonder how I can get it
written by Gramps. Is this Tag supported for export?

Best regards,
Oliver



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Re: GEDCOM Export - REFN Tag

Oliver Lehmann
Hi Paul,

the documentstion of the german online heritage project http://ofb.genealogy.net/ suggests to export in this tag the normalized form of the persons family name.

So if the churchbooks has for example the following 3 persons:

- Hans Schmidt
- Walter Schmied
- Peter Schmitt

They are all three recorded with their name as recorded in the churchbook, but REFN would contain Schmidt for all three of them.

This does not really match the description of REFN but this is at least what the project supports and expects when normalized names are used.

Maybe I could record this information somewhere else in gramps so it gets exported as a single level tag below the person and i just replace the exported tag then manually with REFN?

Best regards,
Oliver

Von meinem Huawei-Mobiltelefon gesendet

-------- Originalnachricht --------
Betreff: Re: [Gramps-users] GEDCOM Export - REFN Tag
Von: Paul Culley
An: [hidden email]
Cc: gramps-users

The REFN tag is not often supported in other software and it has even suggested that it be deprecated for further use.

From the GEDCOM spec:
REFN {REFERENCE}:=
A description or number used to identify an item for filing, storage, or other reference purposes.

What exactly do you expect to be exported with this tag?  We could fill it with random data but that doesn't seem useful...

Paul C.

On Sun, Jul 28, 2019 at 3:34 AM Oliver Lehmann <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

is there a possibility to fill in a Reference information
to a Person so it gets exported as REFN Tag in Gedcom?
I need this tag in GEDCOM and wonder how I can get it
written by Gramps. Is this Tag supported for export?

Best regards,
Oliver



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[hidden email]
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Re: GEDCOM Export - REFN Tag

prculley
It is possible to export a REFN tag attached to an individual or family.  To do so, you have to have a 'REFN' Attribute attached to the person or family.

Go to your person in the People view, Edit the person and go to the Attributes tab at the lower part of the editor.
Add a new Attribute.
Since REFN is not a standard attribute, you have to type it into the 'Attribute' line and ignore the ding sound as you do so.  Once you do this for one person, it becomes available as a 'Custom' attribute for future work.
Then add the name 'Schmidt' as the value.

This will be tedious for a lot of people, but does get the job done.

P.S. since this is a decidedly non-standard usage of the REFN tag, I am not inclined to add the functionality to Gramps to export this way.  If you are so inclined, it is possible to use the addon functionality to write your own addon to Gramps which could do this for you, exporting the Gramps 'Group as' function (part of the name editor, intended for grouping similar name spellings under a single name) as a REFN tag.

Paul C.

On Mon, Jul 29, 2019 at 10:12 AM Oliver Lehmann <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Paul,

the documentstion of the german online heritage project http://ofb.genealogy.net/ suggests to export in this tag the normalized form of the persons family name.

So if the churchbooks has for example the following 3 persons:

- Hans Schmidt
- Walter Schmied
- Peter Schmitt

They are all three recorded with their name as recorded in the churchbook, but REFN would contain Schmidt for all three of them.

This does not really match the description of REFN but this is at least what the project supports and expects when normalized names are used.

Maybe I could record this information somewhere else in gramps so it gets exported as a single level tag below the person and i just replace the exported tag then manually with REFN?

Best regards,
Oliver

Von meinem Huawei-Mobiltelefon gesendet

-------- Originalnachricht --------
Betreff: Re: [Gramps-users] GEDCOM Export - REFN Tag
Von: Paul Culley
An: [hidden email]
Cc: gramps-users

The REFN tag is not often supported in other software and it has even suggested that it be deprecated for further use.

From the GEDCOM spec:
REFN {REFERENCE}:=
A description or number used to identify an item for filing, storage, or other reference purposes.

What exactly do you expect to be exported with this tag?  We could fill it with random data but that doesn't seem useful...

Paul C.

On Sun, Jul 28, 2019 at 3:34 AM Oliver Lehmann <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

is there a possibility to fill in a Reference information
to a Person so it gets exported as REFN Tag in Gedcom?
I need this tag in GEDCOM and wonder how I can get it
written by Gramps. Is this Tag supported for export?

Best regards,
Oliver



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[hidden email]
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https://gramps-project.org




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Re: GEDCOM Export - REFN Tag

GRAMPS - User mailing list
In reply to this post by Oliver Lehmann
This kind of harmonization for surname variants would be less error prone if it was automatically than keyed manually.

Back in the 1980s I'd hoped GEDcom would develop to support SoundEx (or Metaphone/double Metaphone) surname (or placenames) encoding for this kind of harmonization purpose. Then fuzzy searching would've become standard & transparent in all genealogy tools. But GEDcom died on the vine in the 90s.

But because the SoundEx codes in Gramps are only generated at need, then discarded, that kind of fuzzy search cannot become an effective tool for Gramps. It's just too slow on a per use basis... particularly when your database grows more massive. 

Which is interesting because it could be more efficient than the the current name search if, instead, a 'sounds like' hashcode equivalent was generated & stored as individuals & places were keyed in. (With a separate utilty to regenerate the internal field value if the user chooses a different phonetic encoder.)  Then a quick Phonetic comparison feature would only have to generate a hashcode on the fly for just the search term. And the hashcode will be smaller term and smaller unique dataset.

About SoundEx:
https://www.1930census.com/soundex.php

SoundEx NYIIS Metaphone coding


SoundEx in Gramps:



-Brian

On Mon, Jul 29, 2019 at 10:15, Oliver Lehmann


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Re: GEDCOM Export - REFN Tag

Patrice Legoux
In reply to this post by prculley
Before using Gramps, 3 years ago, I was on PAF and I had defined some personal references stored into the PAF "Custom ID" field. Now in Gramps, after the Gedcom export/import, they remain stored into an attribute REFN field. When I exported gedcoms REFN fields are still there.

Le lun. 29 juil. 2019 à 18:35, Paul Culley <[hidden email]> a écrit :
It is possible to export a REFN tag attached to an individual or family.  To do so, you have to have a 'REFN' Attribute attached to the person or family.

Go to your person in the People view, Edit the person and go to the Attributes tab at the lower part of the editor.
Add a new Attribute.
Since REFN is not a standard attribute, you have to type it into the 'Attribute' line and ignore the ding sound as you do so.  Once you do this for one person, it becomes available as a 'Custom' attribute for future work.
Then add the name 'Schmidt' as the value.

This will be tedious for a lot of people, but does get the job done.

P.S. since this is a decidedly non-standard usage of the REFN tag, I am not inclined to add the functionality to Gramps to export this way.  If you are so inclined, it is possible to use the addon functionality to write your own addon to Gramps which could do this for you, exporting the Gramps 'Group as' function (part of the name editor, intended for grouping similar name spellings under a single name) as a REFN tag.

Paul C.

On Mon, Jul 29, 2019 at 10:12 AM Oliver Lehmann <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Paul,

the documentstion of the german online heritage project http://ofb.genealogy.net/ suggests to export in this tag the normalized form of the persons family name.

So if the churchbooks has for example the following 3 persons:

- Hans Schmidt
- Walter Schmied
- Peter Schmitt

They are all three recorded with their name as recorded in the churchbook, but REFN would contain Schmidt for all three of them.

This does not really match the description of REFN but this is at least what the project supports and expects when normalized names are used.

Maybe I could record this information somewhere else in gramps so it gets exported as a single level tag below the person and i just replace the exported tag then manually with REFN?

Best regards,
Oliver

Von meinem Huawei-Mobiltelefon gesendet

-------- Originalnachricht --------
Betreff: Re: [Gramps-users] GEDCOM Export - REFN Tag
Von: Paul Culley
An: [hidden email]
Cc: gramps-users

The REFN tag is not often supported in other software and it has even suggested that it be deprecated for further use.

From the GEDCOM spec:
REFN {REFERENCE}:=
A description or number used to identify an item for filing, storage, or other reference purposes.

What exactly do you expect to be exported with this tag?  We could fill it with random data but that doesn't seem useful...

Paul C.

On Sun, Jul 28, 2019 at 3:34 AM Oliver Lehmann <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

is there a possibility to fill in a Reference information
to a Person so it gets exported as REFN Tag in Gedcom?
I need this tag in GEDCOM and wonder how I can get it
written by Gramps. Is this Tag supported for export?

Best regards,
Oliver



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https://gramps-project.org


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Re: GEDCOM Export - REFN Tag

Richard Caldwell
Got it now

From: Patrice Legoux <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2019 2:06:40 PM
To: Paul Culley <[hidden email]>; [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] GEDCOM Export - REFN Tag
 
Before using Gramps, 3 years ago, I was on PAF and I had defined some personal references stored into the PAF "Custom ID" field. Now in Gramps, after the Gedcom export/import, they remain stored into an attribute REFN field. When I exported gedcoms REFN fields are still there.

Le lun. 29 juil. 2019 à 18:35, Paul Culley <[hidden email]> a écrit :
It is possible to export a REFN tag attached to an individual or family.  To do so, you have to have a 'REFN' Attribute attached to the person or family.

Go to your person in the People view, Edit the person and go to the Attributes tab at the lower part of the editor.
Add a new Attribute.
Since REFN is not a standard attribute, you have to type it into the 'Attribute' line and ignore the ding sound as you do so.  Once you do this for one person, it becomes available as a 'Custom' attribute for future work.
Then add the name 'Schmidt' as the value.

This will be tedious for a lot of people, but does get the job done.

P.S. since this is a decidedly non-standard usage of the REFN tag, I am not inclined to add the functionality to Gramps to export this way.  If you are so inclined, it is possible to use the addon functionality to write your own addon to Gramps which could do this for you, exporting the Gramps 'Group as' function (part of the name editor, intended for grouping similar name spellings under a single name) as a REFN tag.

Paul C.

On Mon, Jul 29, 2019 at 10:12 AM Oliver Lehmann <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Paul,

the documentstion of the german online heritage project http://ofb.genealogy.net/ suggests to export in this tag the normalized form of the persons family name.

So if the churchbooks has for example the following 3 persons:

- Hans Schmidt
- Walter Schmied
- Peter Schmitt

They are all three recorded with their name as recorded in the churchbook, but REFN would contain Schmidt for all three of them.

This does not really match the description of REFN but this is at least what the project supports and expects when normalized names are used.

Maybe I could record this information somewhere else in gramps so it gets exported as a single level tag below the person and i just replace the exported tag then manually with REFN?

Best regards,
Oliver

Von meinem Huawei-Mobiltelefon gesendet

-------- Originalnachricht --------
Betreff: Re: [Gramps-users] GEDCOM Export - REFN Tag
Von: Paul Culley
An: [hidden email]
Cc: gramps-users

The REFN tag is not often supported in other software and it has even suggested that it be deprecated for further use.

From the GEDCOM spec:
REFN {REFERENCE}:=
A description or number used to identify an item for filing, storage, or other reference purposes.

What exactly do you expect to be exported with this tag?  We could fill it with random data but that doesn't seem useful...

Paul C.

On Sun, Jul 28, 2019 at 3:34 AM Oliver Lehmann <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

is there a possibility to fill in a Reference information
to a Person so it gets exported as REFN Tag in Gedcom?
I need this tag in GEDCOM and wonder how I can get it
written by Gramps. Is this Tag supported for export?

Best regards,
Oliver



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Re: GEDCOM Export - REFN Tag

Dave Scheipers
And there is a Set/Remove Attribute tool. This tool only works on
People records. You can globally set/remove an Attribute or do the
same based upon filters.

Dave

On Mon, Jul 29, 2019 at 5:52 PM Richard Caldwell <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Got it now
> ________________________________
> From: Patrice Legoux <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Monday, July 29, 2019 2:06:40 PM
> To: Paul Culley <[hidden email]>; [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] GEDCOM Export - REFN Tag
>
> Before using Gramps, 3 years ago, I was on PAF and I had defined some personal references stored into the PAF "Custom ID" field. Now in Gramps, after the Gedcom export/import, they remain stored into an attribute REFN field. When I exported gedcoms REFN fields are still there.
>
> Le lun. 29 juil. 2019 à 18:35, Paul Culley <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>>
>> It is possible to export a REFN tag attached to an individual or family.  To do so, you have to have a 'REFN' Attribute attached to the person or family.
>>
>> Go to your person in the People view, Edit the person and go to the Attributes tab at the lower part of the editor.
>> Add a new Attribute.
>> Since REFN is not a standard attribute, you have to type it into the 'Attribute' line and ignore the ding sound as you do so.  Once you do this for one person, it becomes available as a 'Custom' attribute for future work.
>> Then add the name 'Schmidt' as the value.
>>
>> This will be tedious for a lot of people, but does get the job done.
>>
>> P.S. since this is a decidedly non-standard usage of the REFN tag, I am not inclined to add the functionality to Gramps to export this way.  If you are so inclined, it is possible to use the addon functionality to write your own addon to Gramps which could do this for you, exporting the Gramps 'Group as' function (part of the name editor, intended for grouping similar name spellings under a single name) as a REFN tag.
>>
>> Paul C.
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 29, 2019 at 10:12 AM Oliver Lehmann <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Paul,
>>>
>>> the documentstion of the german online heritage project http://ofb.genealogy.net/ suggests to export in this tag the normalized form of the persons family name.
>>>
>>> So if the churchbooks has for example the following 3 persons:
>>>
>>> - Hans Schmidt
>>> - Walter Schmied
>>> - Peter Schmitt
>>>
>>> They are all three recorded with their name as recorded in the churchbook, but REFN would contain Schmidt for all three of them.
>>>
>>> This does not really match the description of REFN but this is at least what the project supports and expects when normalized names are used.
>>>
>>> Maybe I could record this information somewhere else in gramps so it gets exported as a single level tag below the person and i just replace the exported tag then manually with REFN?
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Oliver
>>>
>>> Von meinem Huawei-Mobiltelefon gesendet
>>>
>>> -------- Originalnachricht --------
>>> Betreff: Re: [Gramps-users] GEDCOM Export - REFN Tag
>>> Von: Paul Culley
>>> An: [hidden email]
>>> Cc: gramps-users
>>>
>>> The REFN tag is not often supported in other software and it has even suggested that it be deprecated for further use.
>>>
>>> From the GEDCOM spec:
>>>>
>>>> REFN {REFERENCE}:=
>>>> A description or number used to identify an item for filing, storage, or other reference purposes.
>>>
>>>
>>> What exactly do you expect to be exported with this tag?  We could fill it with random data but that doesn't seem useful...
>>>
>>> Paul C.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 28, 2019 at 3:34 AM Oliver Lehmann <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> is there a possibility to fill in a Reference information
>>>> to a Person so it gets exported as REFN Tag in Gedcom?
>>>> I need this tag in GEDCOM and wonder how I can get it
>>>> written by Gramps. Is this Tag supported for export?
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> Oliver
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Gramps-users mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
>>>> https://gramps-project.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
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