Quantcast

GEPS 006: New Locality field added to the database

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
52 messages Options
123
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

GEPS 006: New Locality field added to the database

Nick Hall-6
Devs,

As part of "GEPS 006: Better Place handling" I have added a new Locality
field to Location between Street and City.

http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=GEPS_006:_Better_Place_handling#Good_definition_of_place_and_address.2Fresidence_event_in_Gramps

You will need to either upgrade a database from version 3.2 or import
from XML.

An extra column has been added to the Place Views, so please also delete
the corresponding .ini files.

So far I have only added the extra field to the interface for Places.  
The field is also present in the Address and Researcher objects.  Should
I add it to the user interface for these?  It would seem to be a good idea.

Let me know if you have any problems.

Regards,


Nick.




------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest
Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in  U.S. and Canada
$10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing
Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store
http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev
_______________________________________________
Gramps-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: GEPS 006: New Locality field added to the database

lcc .
I was reading some discussion concerning Gramps and genealogy software
on the internet the other day and was impressed to find that,
according to those writing, some of the place fields are lost on
Gramps' export to GEDCOM. It'd be quite nice to fix this.

Regards,
--lcc

On 10/27/10, Nick Hall <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Devs,
>
> As part of "GEPS 006: Better Place handling" I have added a new Locality
> field to Location between Street and City.
>
> http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=GEPS_006:_Better_Place_handling#Good_definition_of_place_and_address.2Fresidence_event_in_Gramps
>
> You will need to either upgrade a database from version 3.2 or import
> from XML.
>
> An extra column has been added to the Place Views, so please also delete
> the corresponding .ini files.
>
> So far I have only added the extra field to the interface for Places.
> The field is also present in the Address and Researcher objects.  Should
> I add it to the user interface for these?  It would seem to be a good idea.
>
> Let me know if you have any problems.
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Nick.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest
> Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in  U.S. and Canada
> $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing
> Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest
Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in  U.S. and Canada
$10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing
Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store
http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev
_______________________________________________
Gramps-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: GEPS 006: New Locality field added to the database

Gerald Britton-2
I think the problem may be that the GEDCOM standard does not support
the fields in question.  On the other hand, it should be possible to
create notes on export corresponding to those fields.

On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 3:19 PM, lcc . <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I was reading some discussion concerning Gramps and genealogy software
> on the internet the other day and was impressed to find that,
> according to those writing, some of the place fields are lost on
> Gramps' export to GEDCOM. It'd be quite nice to fix this.
>
> Regards,
> --lcc
>
> On 10/27/10, Nick Hall <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Devs,
>>
>> As part of "GEPS 006: Better Place handling" I have added a new Locality
>> field to Location between Street and City.
>>
>> http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=GEPS_006:_Better_Place_handling#Good_definition_of_place_and_address.2Fresidence_event_in_Gramps
>>
>> You will need to either upgrade a database from version 3.2 or import
>> from XML.
>>
>> An extra column has been added to the Place Views, so please also delete
>> the corresponding .ini files.
>>
>> So far I have only added the extra field to the interface for Places.
>> The field is also present in the Address and Researcher objects.  Should
>> I add it to the user interface for these?  It would seem to be a good idea.
>>
>> Let me know if you have any problems.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>> Nick.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest
>> Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in  U.S. and Canada
>> $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing
>> Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gramps-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
>>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest
> Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in  U.S. and Canada
> $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing
> Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
>



--
Gerald Britton

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest
Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in  U.S. and Canada
$10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing
Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store
http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev
_______________________________________________
Gramps-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: GEPS 006: New Locality field added to the database

lcc .
The fields are somewhat like a hierarchical abstraction if I'm not
mistaken, couldn't then the missing GEDCOM fields be inserted on the
closest field separated by commas? A single Gramps or GEDCOM field
could be used for all fields. As nice as these abstractions are, users
are not obliged to comply. A single field suffices for the full
semantic place value which is being lost. On the other end there could
even be parsing and reconstruction.

--lcc
On 10/27/10, Gerald Britton <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I think the problem may be that the GEDCOM standard does not support
> the fields in question.  On the other hand, it should be possible to
> create notes on export corresponding to those fields.
>
> On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 3:19 PM, lcc . <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I was reading some discussion concerning Gramps and genealogy software
>> on the internet the other day and was impressed to find that,
>> according to those writing, some of the place fields are lost on
>> Gramps' export to GEDCOM. It'd be quite nice to fix this.
>>
>> Regards,
>> --lcc
>>
>> On 10/27/10, Nick Hall <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Devs,
>>>
>>> As part of "GEPS 006: Better Place handling" I have added a new Locality
>>> field to Location between Street and City.
>>>
>>> http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=GEPS_006:_Better_Place_handling#Good_definition_of_place_and_address.2Fresidence_event_in_Gramps
>>>
>>> You will need to either upgrade a database from version 3.2 or import
>>> from XML.
>>>
>>> An extra column has been added to the Place Views, so please also delete
>>> the corresponding .ini files.
>>>
>>> So far I have only added the extra field to the interface for Places.
>>> The field is also present in the Address and Researcher objects.  Should
>>> I add it to the user interface for these?  It would seem to be a good
>>> idea.
>>>
>>> Let me know if you have any problems.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>>
>>> Nick.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America
>>> contest
>>> Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in  U.S. and
>>> Canada
>>> $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in
>>> marketing
>>> Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store
>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Gramps-devel mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
>>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America
>> contest
>> Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in  U.S. and Canada
>> $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in
>> marketing
>> Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gramps-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Gerald Britton
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest
Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in  U.S. and Canada
$10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing
Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store
http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev
_______________________________________________
Gramps-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: GEPS 006: New Locality field added to the database

Benny Malengier
In reply to this post by Nick Hall-6


2010/10/27 Nick Hall <[hidden email]>
Devs,

As part of "GEPS 006: Better Place handling" I have added a new Locality
field to Location between Street and City.

http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=GEPS_006:_Better_Place_handling#Good_definition_of_place_and_address.2Fresidence_event_in_Gramps

You will need to either upgrade a database from version 3.2 or import
from XML.

An extra column has been added to the Place Views, so please also delete
the corresponding .ini files.

So far I have only added the extra field to the interface for Places.
The field is also present in the Address and Researcher objects.  Should
I add it to the user interface for these?  It would seem to be a good idea.

Address is for the thing you see on a label of a letter, not  for a place. So _not_ adding it there would be ok.
In GEDCOM the structure is shared though, so if we add, that does not hurt either.
I would not add it, but I do not use address :-)

Benny

Let me know if you have any problems.

Regards,


Nick.




------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest
Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in  U.S. and Canada
$10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing
Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store
http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev
_______________________________________________
Gramps-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest
Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in  U.S. and Canada
$10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing
Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store
http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev
_______________________________________________
Gramps-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: GEPS 006: New Locality field added to the database

Benny Malengier
In reply to this post by lcc .


2010/10/27 lcc . <[hidden email]>
The fields are somewhat like a hierarchical abstraction if I'm not
mistaken, couldn't then the missing GEDCOM fields be inserted on the
closest field separated by commas? A single Gramps or GEDCOM field
could be used for all fields. As nice as these abstractions are, users
are not obliged to comply. A single field suffices for the full
semantic place value which is being lost. On the other end there could
even be parsing and reconstruction.

GEDCOM uses a multiline tag. It is like a label of of a letter in one field.
So, Gramps should concatenate the fields GEDCOM does not contain, and output them like that.
On read, this can feed back into the description field.
The tool to extract place data can then parse the description field put things in corresponding subfields. The place completion tool eg contains a regex parsing of the this field.

Benny

--lcc
On 10/27/10, Gerald Britton <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I think the problem may be that the GEDCOM standard does not support
> the fields in question.  On the other hand, it should be possible to
> create notes on export corresponding to those fields.
>
> On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 3:19 PM, lcc . <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I was reading some discussion concerning Gramps and genealogy software
>> on the internet the other day and was impressed to find that,
>> according to those writing, some of the place fields are lost on
>> Gramps' export to GEDCOM. It'd be quite nice to fix this.
>>
>> Regards,
>> --lcc
>>
>> On 10/27/10, Nick Hall <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Devs,
>>>
>>> As part of "GEPS 006: Better Place handling" I have added a new Locality
>>> field to Location between Street and City.
>>>
>>> http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=GEPS_006:_Better_Place_handling#Good_definition_of_place_and_address.2Fresidence_event_in_Gramps
>>>
>>> You will need to either upgrade a database from version 3.2 or import
>>> from XML.
>>>
>>> An extra column has been added to the Place Views, so please also delete
>>> the corresponding .ini files.
>>>
>>> So far I have only added the extra field to the interface for Places.
>>> The field is also present in the Address and Researcher objects.  Should
>>> I add it to the user interface for these?  It would seem to be a good
>>> idea.
>>>
>>> Let me know if you have any problems.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>>
>>> Nick.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America
>>> contest
>>> Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in  U.S. and
>>> Canada
>>> $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in
>>> marketing
>>> Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store
>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Gramps-devel mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
>>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America
>> contest
>> Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in  U.S. and Canada
>> $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in
>> marketing
>> Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gramps-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Gerald Britton
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest
Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in  U.S. and Canada
$10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing
Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store
http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev
_______________________________________________
Gramps-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest
Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in  U.S. and Canada
$10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing
Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store
http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev
_______________________________________________
Gramps-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: GEPS 006: New Locality field added to the database

Nick Hall-6
In reply to this post by Benny Malengier
Benny,

We actually do use the optional address structure within an event to
export the place hierarchy.  In the place structure we only record the
place title.

The address format has the following tags to store address lines:

ADR1 = Address line 1 (Street)
ADR2 = Address line 2 (Locality)
CITY = City
STAE = State
POST = Postal Code (Zip Code)
CTRY = Country

The missing definition is for County.  (I don't think American's
normally use it when writing an address)

So I could include Locality in the Address and Researcher structures
quite easily.

The problem is that we lose County in the export of Places.  There are
two possible solutions:

1. Use the PLAC.FORM structure instead of ADDR.  This structures places
as comma separated lists of jurisdictional entities.  The problem is
that according to the GEDCOM standard: "This usage is not common and,
therefore, not encouraged. It should only be used when a system has
over-structured its place-names."  Perhaps this is why we don't use it.

2. Use the GEDCOM 5.5EL (extended locations) standard.  This seems to be
a standard mainly used by German software.

http://wiki-en.genealogy.net/Gedcom_5.5EL#Names_of_a_Person

There is also a feature request:

http://bugs.gramps-project.org/view.php?id=688

I don't fully understand this standard for extended locations.  Do you
think that it might be useful?  How do most of our users use GEDCOM?    
5.5EL also has a section for extended name support.

I think that I should add Locality to Address and Researcher.  What are
you thoughts about the place hierarchy?

Regards,


Nick.


Benny Malengier wrote:

>
>
> 2010/10/27 Nick Hall <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>
>     Devs,
>
>     As part of "GEPS 006: Better Place handling" I have added a new
>     Locality
>     field to Location between Street and City.
>
>     http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=GEPS_006:_Better_Place_handling#Good_definition_of_place_and_address.2Fresidence_event_in_Gramps
>
>     You will need to either upgrade a database from version 3.2 or import
>     from XML.
>
>     An extra column has been added to the Place Views, so please also
>     delete
>     the corresponding .ini files.
>
>     So far I have only added the extra field to the interface for Places.
>     The field is also present in the Address and Researcher objects.
>      Should
>     I add it to the user interface for these?  It would seem to be a
>     good idea.
>
>
> Address is for the thing you see on a label of a letter, not  for a
> place. So _not_ adding it there would be ok.
> In GEDCOM the structure is shared though, so if we add, that does not
> hurt either.
> I would not add it, but I do not use address :-)
>
> Benny
>
>
>     Let me know if you have any problems.
>
>     Regards,
>
>
>     Nick.
>
>
>
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North
>     America contest
>     Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in  U.S.
>     and Canada
>     $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in
>     marketing
>     Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi
>     Store
>     http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev
>     _______________________________________________
>     Gramps-devel mailing list
>     [hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>
>     https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
>
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest
Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in  U.S. and Canada
$10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing
Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store
http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev
_______________________________________________
Gramps-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: GEPS 006: New Locality field added to the database

jerome
In reply to this post by lcc .
On export or import into an other program ?

Because, I also answered on a french forum about location.
Gramps exports location fields linked to the place name/title.

But most genealogical programs do not support these fields there. It is like having address on a place name/title. Same possible issue with coordinates.

Strict Gedcom 5.5 support will mean to ignore these data related to place name/title. Gramps aims to help user to properly export all its data, even if not imported by others programs...


Jérôme

--- En date de : Mer 27.10.10, lcc . <[hidden email]> a écrit :

> De: lcc . <[hidden email]>
> Objet: Re: [Gramps-devel] GEPS 006: New Locality field added to the database
> À: "Nick Hall" <[hidden email]>
> Cc: "Gramps developers" <[hidden email]>
> Date: Mercredi 27 octobre 2010, 21h19
> I was reading some discussion
> concerning Gramps and genealogy software
> on the internet the other day and was impressed to find
> that,
> according to those writing, some of the place fields are
> lost on
> Gramps' export to GEDCOM. It'd be quite nice to fix this.
>
> Regards,
> --lcc
>
> On 10/27/10, Nick Hall <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > Devs,
> >
> > As part of "GEPS 006: Better Place handling" I have
> added a new Locality
> > field to Location between Street and City.
> >
> > http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=GEPS_006:_Better_Place_handling#Good_definition_of_place_and_address.2Fresidence_event_in_Gramps
> >
> > You will need to either upgrade a database from
> version 3.2 or import
> > from XML.
> >
> > An extra column has been added to the Place Views, so
> please also delete
> > the corresponding .ini files.
> >
> > So far I have only added the extra field to the
> interface for Places.
> > The field is also present in the Address and
> Researcher objects.  Should
> > I add it to the user interface for these?  It
> would seem to be a good idea.
> >
> > Let me know if you have any problems.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >
> > Nick.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All
> Innovators-North America contest
> > Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for
> consumers in  U.S. and Canada
> > $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices,
> nearly $6M in marketing
> > Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and
> Publish to Ovi Store
> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev
> > _______________________________________________
> > Gramps-devel mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
> >
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All
> Innovators-North America contest
> Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers
> in  U.S. and Canada
> $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly
> $6M in marketing
> Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish
> to Ovi Store
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
>


     

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest
Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in  U.S. and Canada
$10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing
Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store
http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev
_______________________________________________
Gramps-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: GEPS 006: New Locality field added to the database

Benny Malengier
In reply to this post by Nick Hall-6


2010/10/28 Nick Hall <[hidden email]>
Benny,

We actually do use the optional address structure within an event to export the place hierarchy.  In the place structure we only record the place title.

The address format has the following tags to store address lines:

ADR1 = Address line 1 (Street)
ADR2 = Address line 2 (Locality)
CITY = City
STAE = State
POST = Postal Code (Zip Code)
CTRY = Country

It is more genereal. See http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~pmcbride/gedcom/55gcch2.htm#ADDRESS_STRUCTURE

So it is
n  ADDR <ADDRESS_LINE>  {0:1}
+1 CONT <ADDRESS_LINE> {0:M}
+1 ADR1 <ADDRESS_LINE1> {0:1}
+1 ADR2 <ADDRESS_LINE2> {0:1}
 
Special here is that CONT has {0:M}, so although there is ADR1 and ADR2, we can extend ADDR with extra CONT to also include county.
So
ADDR street
  CONT locality
  CONT county
  ADR1 street
  ADR2 locality

For a place, we have
PLAC Place_name
  MAP
     LATI latitude
     LONG longitude
ADDR street
   CONT locality
   CONT county
   ADR1 street
   ADR2 locality
   ...


The missing definition is for County.  (I don't think American's normally use it when writing an address)

So I could include Locality in the Address and Researcher structures quite easily.

The problem is that we lose County in the export of Places.  There are two possible solutions:

1. Use the PLAC.FORM structure instead of ADDR.  This structures places as comma separated lists of jurisdictional entities.  The problem is that according to the GEDCOM standard: "This usage is not common and, therefore, not encouraged. It should only be used when a system has over-structured its place-names."  Perhaps this is why we don't use it.

Better not
 

2. Use the GEDCOM 5.5EL (extended locations) standard.  This seems to be a standard mainly used by German software.

http://wiki-en.genealogy.net/Gedcom_5.5EL#Names_of_a_Person


We have no control over these variants and there is no 'standards body' approving these changes. It is best to write out normal defined gedcom, and if somebody wants to write a Gedcom 5.5EL exporter, or an option to select that, they can go ahead. 
I think it is more interesting to make sure we can import 5.5EL.


There is also a feature request:

http://bugs.gramps-project.org/view.php?id=688

I don't fully understand this standard for extended locations.  Do you think that it might be useful?  How do most of our users use GEDCOM?    5.5EL also has a section for extended name support.

They use a linked list of places. You see _LOC contains a _LOC, which can contain a ....
So they can build our place treeview in a linked list fashion in the data.
Obviously not a very robust approach, but very versatile. See:
HIERARCHICAL_RELATIONSHIP

Describes the type of a relation of a location to the hierarchically next higher area unit. This can be the affiliation of communities to a conglomerat or the affiliation of the catholic community to a diocese. Here, for example, you can store the fact, that this location was founded by the Huguenots.


To support it, we would need to have a field in the place structure like: parent place: ...., so that a place can link to a place.
Via the backreferences we can then build up  the treeview, instead of doing it implicitly like we do now (without connections).

The approach they take is somewhat broken as a place can only have one parent place. However, we are storing places over time. So the consequence of their scheme is that you need to recreate a place for every time period, also not user friendly.
You could solve that by creating place groups.
Contemporary Placename  --> alternate locations = name at different times.
Next, each place can have a parent place to indicate the hierarchy at that time.

Eg, you make an event married 1758, and add a place. You see:
Contemporary placename: ....
Placename date 1758: ...

All very complicated. Do we need it for genealogy?


I think that I should add Locality to Address and Researcher.  What are you thoughts about the place hierarchy?

I rather see a source hierarchy first :-).
Doing it implicitly as we do now is not a bad approach. It avoids to much data input on working with places.

Benny
 

Regards,


Nick.


Benny Malengier wrote:


2010/10/27 Nick Hall <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>


   Devs,

   As part of "GEPS 006: Better Place handling" I have added a new
   Locality
   field to Location between Street and City.

   http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=GEPS_006:_Better_Place_handling#Good_definition_of_place_and_address.2Fresidence_event_in_Gramps

   You will need to either upgrade a database from version 3.2 or import
   from XML.

   An extra column has been added to the Place Views, so please also
   delete
   the corresponding .ini files.

   So far I have only added the extra field to the interface for Places.
   The field is also present in the Address and Researcher objects.
    Should
   I add it to the user interface for these?  It would seem to be a
   good idea.


Address is for the thing you see on a label of a letter, not  for a place. So _not_ adding it there would be ok.
In GEDCOM the structure is shared though, so if we add, that does not hurt either.
I would not add it, but I do not use address :-)

Benny


   Let me know if you have any problems.

   Regards,


   Nick.




   ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North
   America contest
   Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in  U.S.
   and Canada
   $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in
   marketing
   Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi
   Store
   http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev
   _______________________________________________
   Gramps-devel mailing list
   [hidden email]
   <mailto:[hidden email]>


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest
Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in  U.S. and Canada
$10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing
Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store
http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev
_______________________________________________
Gramps-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: GEPS 006: New Locality field added to the database

jerome
In reply to this post by Nick Hall-6
I had made a feature request for storing address fields into a new PlaceRef Editor : http://www.gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=1560

Am trying to understand what I have written ... I do not remember why I made this one, but according generation date, I suppose this has been fixed with last releases!

Anyway, the primary request seems to be an alternative to location storage into Place Object. As Place is the only one primary object without References Editor (only Event <-> Place), why not trying to store data into a new reference ?


Jérôme

--- En date de : Jeu 28.10.10, Benny Malengier <[hidden email]> a écrit :

De: Benny Malengier <[hidden email]>
Objet: Re: [Gramps-devel] GEPS 006: New Locality field added to the database
À: "Nick Hall" <[hidden email]>
Cc: "Gramps developers" <[hidden email]>
Date: Jeudi 28 octobre 2010, 10h04



2010/10/28 Nick Hall <[hidden email]>

Benny,



We actually do use the optional address structure within an event to export the place hierarchy.  In the place structure we only record the place title.



The address format has the following tags to store address lines:



ADR1 = Address line 1 (Street)

ADR2 = Address line 2 (Locality)

CITY = City

STAE = State

POST = Postal Code (Zip Code)

CTRY = Country

It is more genereal. See http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~pmcbride/gedcom/55gcch2.htm#ADDRESS_STRUCTURE 


So it is
n  ADDR <ADDRESS_LINE>  {0:1}
    +1 CONT <ADDRESS_LINE>  {0:M}

    +1 ADR1 <ADDRESS_LINE1>  {0:1}
    +1 ADR2 <ADDRESS_LINE2>  {0:1}

 
Special here is that CONT has {0:M}, so although there is ADR1 and ADR2, we can extend ADDR with extra CONT to also include county.
So
ADDR street
  CONT locality
  CONT county
  ADR1 street

  ADR2 locality

For a place, we have
PLAC Place_name
  MAP
     LATI latitude
     LONG longitude
ADDR street
   CONT locality
   CONT county
   ADR1 street
   ADR2 locality
   ...





The missing definition is for County.  (I don't think American's normally use it when writing an address)



So I could include Locality in the Address and Researcher structures quite easily.



The problem is that we lose County in the export of Places.  There are two possible solutions:



1. Use the PLAC.FORM structure instead of ADDR.  This structures places as comma separated lists of jurisdictional entities.  The problem is that according to the GEDCOM standard: "This usage is not common and, therefore, not encouraged. It should only be used when a system has over-structured its place-names."  Perhaps this is why we don't use it.


Better not
 



2. Use the GEDCOM 5.5EL (extended locations) standard.  This seems to be a standard mainly used by German software.



http://wiki-en.genealogy.net/Gedcom_5.5EL#Names_of_a_Person



We have no control over these variants and there is no 'standards body' approving these changes. It is best to write out normal defined gedcom, and if somebody wants to write a Gedcom 5.5EL exporter, or an option to select that, they can go ahead. 

I think it is more interesting to make sure we can import 5.5EL.



There is also a feature request:



http://bugs.gramps-project.org/view.php?id=688



I don't fully understand this standard for extended locations.  Do you think that it might be useful?  How do most of our users use GEDCOM?    5.5EL also has a section for extended name support.


They use a linked list of places. You see _LOC contains a _LOC, which can contain a ....
So they can build our place treeview in a linked list fashion in the data.
Obviously not a very robust approach, but very versatile. See:

HIERARCHICAL_RELATIONSHIP


Describes the type of a relation of a location to the hierarchically
next higher area unit. This can be the affiliation of communities to a
conglomerat or

the affiliation of the catholic community to a diocese. Here, for
example, you can store the fact, that this location was founded by the
Huguenots.
To support it, we would need to have a field in the place structure like: parent place: ...., so that a place can link to a place.
Via the backreferences we can then build up  the treeview, instead of doing it implicitly like we do now (without connections).


The approach they take is somewhat broken as a place can only have one parent place. However, we are storing places over time. So the consequence of their scheme is that you need to recreate a place for every time period, also not user friendly.

You could solve that by creating place groups.
Contemporary Placename  --> alternate locations = name at different times.
Next, each place can have a parent place to indicate the hierarchy at that time.


Eg, you make an event married 1758, and add a place. You see:
Contemporary placename: ....
Placename date 1758: ...

All very complicated. Do we need it for genealogy?





I think that I should add Locality to Address and Researcher.  What are you thoughts about the place hierarchy?

I rather see a source hierarchy first :-).
Doing it implicitly as we do now is not a bad approach. It avoids to much data input on working with places.


Benny
 



Regards,





Nick.





Benny Malengier wrote:






2010/10/27 Nick Hall <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>




    Devs,



    As part of "GEPS 006: Better Place handling" I have added a new

    Locality

    field to Location between Street and City.



    http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=GEPS_006:_Better_Place_handling#Good_definition_of_place_and_address.2Fresidence_event_in_Gramps




    You will need to either upgrade a database from version 3.2 or import

    from XML.



    An extra column has been added to the Place Views, so please also

    delete

    the corresponding .ini files.



    So far I have only added the extra field to the interface for Places.

    The field is also present in the Address and Researcher objects.

     Should

    I add it to the user interface for these?  It would seem to be a

    good idea.





Address is for the thing you see on a label of a letter, not  for a place. So _not_ adding it there would be ok.

In GEDCOM the structure is shared though, so if we add, that does not hurt either.

I would not add it, but I do not use address :-)



Benny





    Let me know if you have any problems.



    Regards,





    Nick.









    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North

    America contest

    Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in  U.S.

    and Canada

    $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in

    marketing

    Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi

    Store

    http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev

    _______________________________________________

    Gramps-devel mailing list

    [hidden email]

    <mailto:[hidden email]>

    https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel









-----La pièce jointe associée suit-----

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest
Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in  U.S. and Canada
$10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing
Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store
http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev
-----La pièce jointe associée suit-----

_______________________________________________
Gramps-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel




     

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest
Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in  U.S. and Canada
$10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing
Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store
http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev
_______________________________________________
Gramps-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: GEPS 006: New Locality field added to the database

Benny Malengier


2010/10/28 jerome <[hidden email]>
I had made a feature request for storing address fields into a new PlaceRef Editor : http://www.gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=1560

Am trying to understand what I have written ... I do not remember why I made this one, but according generation date, I suppose this has been fixed with last releases!

Anyway, the primary request seems to be an alternative to location storage into Place Object. As Place is the only one primary object without References Editor (only Event <-> Place), why not trying to store data into a new reference ?

Jerome,

This is a very bad idea. There is no reference information, so we should also not store it. The event was at that place. Point.

Benny


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest
Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in  U.S. and Canada
$10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing
Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store
http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev
_______________________________________________
Gramps-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: GEPS 006: New Locality field added to the database

jerome
In reply to this post by Nick Hall-6
> This is a very bad idea.
> There is no reference information, so we should also not store it.

Yes, complete feature is bad.
But there is an exemple with source and repository. There is only one place for repository reference, it is on sources.

Now, rather than adding a locality field, this one (and maybe street field) might be added as a new reference between event and place. Address fields will match them, so old address could be stored into a new Place_location_Ref (with Person object).


Jérôme


--- En date de : Jeu 28.10.10, Benny Malengier <[hidden email]> a écrit :

De: Benny Malengier <[hidden email]>
Objet: Re: [Gramps-devel] GEPS 006: New Locality field added to the database
À: "jerome" <[hidden email]>
Cc: "Nick Hall" <[hidden email]>, "Gramps developers" <[hidden email]>
Date: Jeudi 28 octobre 2010, 11h20



2010/10/28 jerome <[hidden email]>

I had made a feature request for storing address fields into a new PlaceRef Editor : http://www.gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=1560




Am trying to understand what I have written ... I do not remember why I made this one, but according generation date, I suppose this has been fixed with last releases!



Anyway, the primary request seems to be an alternative to location storage into Place Object. As Place is the only one primary object without References Editor (only Event <-> Place), why not trying to store data into a new reference ?


Jerome,

This is a very bad idea. There is no reference information, so we should also not store it. The event was at that place. Point.

Benny





     

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest
Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in  U.S. and Canada
$10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing
Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store
http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev
_______________________________________________
Gramps-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: GEPS 006: New Locality field added to the database

Benny Malengier


2010/10/28 jerome <[hidden email]>
> This is a very bad idea.
> There is no reference information, so we should also not store it.

Yes, complete feature is bad.
But there is an exemple with source and repository. There is only one place for repository reference, it is on sources.

Reporef holds where the source is in the repo.
Placeref should hold what? Where the event is in the place?? 

Now, rather than adding a locality field, this one (and maybe street field) might be added as a new reference between event and place. Address fields will match them, so old address could be stored into a new Place_location_Ref (with Person object).

We cannot fix a broken thing by breaking more stuff.
locality and street are part of the place. Like that you only have to enter them _once_, and not for every event there.

Benny


Jérôme


--- En date de : Jeu 28.10.10, Benny Malengier <[hidden email]> a écrit :

De: Benny Malengier <[hidden email]>
Objet: Re: [Gramps-devel] GEPS 006: New Locality field added to the database
À: "jerome" <[hidden email]>
Cc: "Nick Hall" <[hidden email]>, "Gramps developers" <[hidden email]>
Date: Jeudi 28 octobre 2010, 11h20



2010/10/28 jerome <[hidden email]>

I had made a feature request for storing address fields into a new PlaceRef Editor : http://www.gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=1560




Am trying to understand what I have written ... I do not remember why I made this one, but according generation date, I suppose this has been fixed with last releases!



Anyway, the primary request seems to be an alternative to location storage into Place Object. As Place is the only one primary object without References Editor (only Event <-> Place), why not trying to store data into a new reference ?


Jerome,

This is a very bad idea. There is no reference information, so we should also not store it. The event was at that place. Point.

Benny








------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest
Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in  U.S. and Canada
$10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing
Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store
http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev
_______________________________________________
Gramps-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: GEPS 006: New Locality field added to the database

lcc .
In reply to this post by jerome
It is quite simple Jerome. I don't much care if the other program
supports it or not, as long as the information is present in the
exported GEDCOM file. That's the best we can do.

You people can't be adding abstraction layers and then ignoring that
information is being lost on export. That's just wrong.

--lcc
On 10/28/10, jerome <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On export or import into an other program ?
>
> Because, I also answered on a french forum about location.
> Gramps exports location fields linked to the place name/title.
>
> But most genealogical programs do not support these fields there. It is like
> having address on a place name/title. Same possible issue with coordinates.
>
> Strict Gedcom 5.5 support will mean to ignore these data related to place
> name/title. Gramps aims to help user to properly export all its data, even
> if not imported by others programs...
>
>
> Jérôme
>
> --- En date de : Mer 27.10.10, lcc . <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>
>> De: lcc . <[hidden email]>
>> Objet: Re: [Gramps-devel] GEPS 006: New Locality field added to the
>> database
>> À: "Nick Hall" <[hidden email]>
>> Cc: "Gramps developers" <[hidden email]>
>> Date: Mercredi 27 octobre 2010, 21h19
>> I was reading some discussion
>> concerning Gramps and genealogy software
>> on the internet the other day and was impressed to find
>> that,
>> according to those writing, some of the place fields are
>> lost on
>> Gramps' export to GEDCOM. It'd be quite nice to fix this.
>>
>> Regards,
>> --lcc
>>
>> On 10/27/10, Nick Hall <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>> > Devs,
>> >
>> > As part of "GEPS 006: Better Place handling" I have
>> added a new Locality
>> > field to Location between Street and City.
>> >
>> > http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=GEPS_006:_Better_Place_handling#Good_definition_of_place_and_address.2Fresidence_event_in_Gramps
>> >
>> > You will need to either upgrade a database from
>> version 3.2 or import
>> > from XML.
>> >
>> > An extra column has been added to the Place Views, so
>> please also delete
>> > the corresponding .ini files.
>> >
>> > So far I have only added the extra field to the
>> interface for Places.
>> > The field is also present in the Address and
>> Researcher objects.  Should
>> > I add it to the user interface for these?  It
>> would seem to be a good idea.
>> >
>> > Let me know if you have any problems.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> >
>> > Nick.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All
>> Innovators-North America contest
>> > Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for
>> consumers in  U.S. and Canada
>> > $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices,
>> nearly $6M in marketing
>> > Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and
>> Publish to Ovi Store
>> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Gramps-devel mailing list
>> > [hidden email]
>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
>> >
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All
>> Innovators-North America contest
>> Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers
>> in  U.S. and Canada
>> $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly
>> $6M in marketing
>> Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish
>> to Ovi Store
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gramps-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
>>
>
>
>
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest
Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in  U.S. and Canada
$10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing
Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store
http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev
_______________________________________________
Gramps-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: GEPS 006: New Locality field added to the database

jerome
In reply to this post by Nick Hall-6
> You people can't be adding abstraction layers and then
> ignoring that
> information is being lost on export. That's just wrong.

I do not understand !

> according to those writing, some of the place
> fields are lost on Gramps' export to GEDCOM.
> It'd be quite nice to fix this.

What should be fixed ?
If Gramps properly exports Place title field, _everything_ about place is exported (according Gedcom 5.5 file format). Current Exporter extends support because there was request for that and/or it was user data. Should location's fields and coordinates be ignored ?

What is ignored on export ?
How do you get data ? (import Gedcom, then export Gedcom)
Do you follow the Gedcom 5.5 spec ?

Maybe I missed your post with the sample of data not properly exported ?


Jérôme

--- En date de : Jeu 28.10.10, lcc . <[hidden email]> a écrit :

> De: lcc . <[hidden email]>
> Objet: Re: [Gramps-devel] GEPS 006: New Locality field added to the database
> À: "jerome" <[hidden email]>
> Cc: "Nick Hall" <[hidden email]>, "Gramps developers" <[hidden email]>
> Date: Jeudi 28 octobre 2010, 14h07
> It is quite simple Jerome. I don't
> much care if the other program
> supports it or not, as long as the information is present
> in the
> exported GEDCOM file. That's the best we can do.
>
> You people can't be adding abstraction layers and then
> ignoring that
> information is being lost on export. That's just wrong.
>
> --lcc
> On 10/28/10, jerome <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > On export or import into an other program ?
> >
> > Because, I also answered on a french forum about
> location.
> > Gramps exports location fields linked to the place
> name/title.
> >
> > But most genealogical programs do not support these
> fields there. It is like
> > having address on a place name/title. Same possible
> issue with coordinates.
> >
> > Strict Gedcom 5.5 support will mean to ignore these
> data related to place
> > name/title. Gramps aims to help user to properly
> export all its data, even
> > if not imported by others programs...
> >
> >
> > Jérôme
> >
> > --- En date de : Mer 27.10.10, lcc . <[hidden email]>
> a écrit :
> >
> >> De: lcc . <[hidden email]>
> >> Objet: Re: [Gramps-devel] GEPS 006: New Locality
> field added to the
> >> database
> >> À: "Nick Hall" <[hidden email]>
> >> Cc: "Gramps developers" <[hidden email]>
> >> Date: Mercredi 27 octobre 2010, 21h19
> >> I was reading some discussion
> >> concerning Gramps and genealogy software
> >> on the internet the other day and was impressed to
> find
> >> that,
> >> according to those writing, some of the place
> fields are
> >> lost on
> >> Gramps' export to GEDCOM. It'd be quite nice to
> fix this.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> --lcc
> >>
> >> On 10/27/10, Nick Hall <[hidden email]>
> >> wrote:
> >> > Devs,
> >> >
> >> > As part of "GEPS 006: Better Place handling"
> I have
> >> added a new Locality
> >> > field to Location between Street and City.
> >> >
> >> > http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=GEPS_006:_Better_Place_handling#Good_definition_of_place_and_address.2Fresidence_event_in_Gramps
> >> >
> >> > You will need to either upgrade a database
> from
> >> version 3.2 or import
> >> > from XML.
> >> >
> >> > An extra column has been added to the Place
> Views, so
> >> please also delete
> >> > the corresponding .ini files.
> >> >
> >> > So far I have only added the extra field to
> the
> >> interface for Places.
> >> > The field is also present in the Address and
> >> Researcher objects.  Should
> >> > I add it to the user interface for
> these?  It
> >> would seem to be a good idea.
> >> >
> >> > Let me know if you have any problems.
> >> >
> >> > Regards,
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Nick.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling
> All
> >> Innovators-North America contest
> >> > Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8
> for
> >> consumers in  U.S. and Canada
> >> > $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500
> devices,
> >> nearly $6M in marketing
> >> > Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or
> Java and
> >> Publish to Ovi Store
> >> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev
> >> >
> _______________________________________________
> >> > Gramps-devel mailing list
> >> > [hidden email]
> >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All
> >> Innovators-North America contest
> >> Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for
> consumers
> >> in  U.S. and Canada
> >> $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500
> devices, nearly
> >> $6M in marketing
> >> Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java
> and Publish
> >> to Ovi Store
> >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Gramps-devel mailing list
> >> [hidden email]
> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>


     

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest
Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in  U.S. and Canada
$10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing
Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store
http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev
_______________________________________________
Gramps-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: GEPS 006: New Locality field added to the database

lcc .
Here, read this. My understanding is that people are entering place
information in the fields you are providing to them, instead of in a
single field. Then some of these fields are disappearing on export. We
wouldn't want that, eh? Enlighten me if that's not the case.

http://groups.google.com/group/soc.genealogy.methods/browse_thread/thread/ca1bdaef2ffc5bcb/3260844315e3952b

On 10/28/10, jerome <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> You people can't be adding abstraction layers and then
>> ignoring that
>> information is being lost on export. That's just wrong.
>
> I do not understand !
>
>> according to those writing, some of the place
>> fields are lost on Gramps' export to GEDCOM.
>> It'd be quite nice to fix this.
>
> What should be fixed ?
> If Gramps properly exports Place title field, _everything_ about place is
> exported (according Gedcom 5.5 file format). Current Exporter extends
> support because there was request for that and/or it was user data. Should
> location's fields and coordinates be ignored ?
>
> What is ignored on export ?
> How do you get data ? (import Gedcom, then export Gedcom)
> Do you follow the Gedcom 5.5 spec ?
>
> Maybe I missed your post with the sample of data not properly exported ?
>
>
> Jérôme
>
> --- En date de : Jeu 28.10.10, lcc . <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>
>> De: lcc . <[hidden email]>
>> Objet: Re: [Gramps-devel] GEPS 006: New Locality field added to the
>> database
>> À: "jerome" <[hidden email]>
>> Cc: "Nick Hall" <[hidden email]>, "Gramps developers"
>> <[hidden email]>
>> Date: Jeudi 28 octobre 2010, 14h07
>> It is quite simple Jerome. I don't
>> much care if the other program
>> supports it or not, as long as the information is present
>> in the
>> exported GEDCOM file. That's the best we can do.
>>
>> You people can't be adding abstraction layers and then
>> ignoring that
>> information is being lost on export. That's just wrong.
>>
>> --lcc
>> On 10/28/10, jerome <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>> > On export or import into an other program ?
>> >
>> > Because, I also answered on a french forum about
>> location.
>> > Gramps exports location fields linked to the place
>> name/title.
>> >
>> > But most genealogical programs do not support these
>> fields there. It is like
>> > having address on a place name/title. Same possible
>> issue with coordinates.
>> >
>> > Strict Gedcom 5.5 support will mean to ignore these
>> data related to place
>> > name/title. Gramps aims to help user to properly
>> export all its data, even
>> > if not imported by others programs...
>> >
>> >
>> > Jérôme
>> >
>> > --- En date de : Mer 27.10.10, lcc . <[hidden email]>
>> a écrit :
>> >
>> >> De: lcc . <[hidden email]>
>> >> Objet: Re: [Gramps-devel] GEPS 006: New Locality
>> field added to the
>> >> database
>> >> À: "Nick Hall" <[hidden email]>
>> >> Cc: "Gramps developers" <[hidden email]>
>> >> Date: Mercredi 27 octobre 2010, 21h19
>> >> I was reading some discussion
>> >> concerning Gramps and genealogy software
>> >> on the internet the other day and was impressed to
>> find
>> >> that,
>> >> according to those writing, some of the place
>> fields are
>> >> lost on
>> >> Gramps' export to GEDCOM. It'd be quite nice to
>> fix this.
>> >>
>> >> Regards,
>> >> --lcc
>> >>
>> >> On 10/27/10, Nick Hall <[hidden email]>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > Devs,
>> >> >
>> >> > As part of "GEPS 006: Better Place handling"
>> I have
>> >> added a new Locality
>> >> > field to Location between Street and City.
>> >> >
>> >> > http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=GEPS_006:_Better_Place_handling#Good_definition_of_place_and_address.2Fresidence_event_in_Gramps
>> >> >
>> >> > You will need to either upgrade a database
>> from
>> >> version 3.2 or import
>> >> > from XML.
>> >> >
>> >> > An extra column has been added to the Place
>> Views, so
>> >> please also delete
>> >> > the corresponding .ini files.
>> >> >
>> >> > So far I have only added the extra field to
>> the
>> >> interface for Places.
>> >> > The field is also present in the Address and
>> >> Researcher objects.  Should
>> >> > I add it to the user interface for
>> these?  It
>> >> would seem to be a good idea.
>> >> >
>> >> > Let me know if you have any problems.
>> >> >
>> >> > Regards,
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Nick.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> > Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling
>> All
>> >> Innovators-North America contest
>> >> > Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8
>> for
>> >> consumers in  U.S. and Canada
>> >> > $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500
>> devices,
>> >> nearly $6M in marketing
>> >> > Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or
>> Java and
>> >> Publish to Ovi Store
>> >> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev
>> >> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> >> > Gramps-devel mailing list
>> >> > [hidden email]
>> >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All
>> >> Innovators-North America contest
>> >> Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for
>> consumers
>> >> in  U.S. and Canada
>> >> $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500
>> devices, nearly
>> >> $6M in marketing
>> >> Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java
>> and Publish
>> >> to Ovi Store
>> >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Gramps-devel mailing list
>> >> [hidden email]
>> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest
Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in  U.S. and Canada
$10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing
Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store
http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev
_______________________________________________
Gramps-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: GEPS 006: New Locality field added to the database

Benny Malengier


2010/10/28 lcc . <[hidden email]>
Here, read this. My understanding is that people are entering place
information in the fields you are providing to them, instead of in a
single field. Then some of these fields are disappearing on export. We
wouldn't want that, eh? Enlighten me if that's not the case.

http://groups.google.com/group/soc.genealogy.methods/browse_thread/thread/ca1bdaef2ffc5bcb/3260844315e3952b

As they say there:
"It omits the county (WRY) and church parish (Kirkburton).  And by no
stretch of the imagination ca Hepworth be described as a city."

As this has been brought to our attention, and as GEDCOM allows ADDR to contain this, we can fix it. Parish is a problem however, GEDCOM has not support for it as far as I can tell.

Also, they don't like that Hepworth is a city, however, Gramps holds only a city field, so users must use Gramps correctly and add that to the Place Name field only if they don't want it in the CITY field of Gedcom.

So, we can fix these except Parish, which is a Gramps only feature. Other genea programs then extend Gedcom with new tags, eg _PRSH. Gramps has always opted not to extend gedcom with tags nobody else can read.

Benny

On 10/28/10, jerome <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> You people can't be adding abstraction layers and then
>> ignoring that
>> information is being lost on export. That's just wrong.
>
> I do not understand !
>
>> according to those writing, some of the place
>> fields are lost on Gramps' export to GEDCOM.
>> It'd be quite nice to fix this.
>
> What should be fixed ?
> If Gramps properly exports Place title field, _everything_ about place is
> exported (according Gedcom 5.5 file format). Current Exporter extends
> support because there was request for that and/or it was user data. Should
> location's fields and coordinates be ignored ?
>
> What is ignored on export ?
> How do you get data ? (import Gedcom, then export Gedcom)
> Do you follow the Gedcom 5.5 spec ?
>
> Maybe I missed your post with the sample of data not properly exported ?
>
>
> Jérôme
>
> --- En date de : Jeu 28.10.10, lcc . <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>
>> De: lcc . <[hidden email]>
>> Objet: Re: [Gramps-devel] GEPS 006: New Locality field added to the
>> database
>> À: "jerome" <[hidden email]>
>> Cc: "Nick Hall" <[hidden email]>, "Gramps developers"
>> <[hidden email]>
>> Date: Jeudi 28 octobre 2010, 14h07
>> It is quite simple Jerome. I don't
>> much care if the other program
>> supports it or not, as long as the information is present
>> in the
>> exported GEDCOM file. That's the best we can do.
>>
>> You people can't be adding abstraction layers and then
>> ignoring that
>> information is being lost on export. That's just wrong.
>>
>> --lcc
>> On 10/28/10, jerome <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>> > On export or import into an other program ?
>> >
>> > Because, I also answered on a french forum about
>> location.
>> > Gramps exports location fields linked to the place
>> name/title.
>> >
>> > But most genealogical programs do not support these
>> fields there. It is like
>> > having address on a place name/title. Same possible
>> issue with coordinates.
>> >
>> > Strict Gedcom 5.5 support will mean to ignore these
>> data related to place
>> > name/title. Gramps aims to help user to properly
>> export all its data, even
>> > if not imported by others programs...
>> >
>> >
>> > Jérôme
>> >
>> > --- En date de : Mer 27.10.10, lcc . <[hidden email]>
>> a écrit :
>> >
>> >> De: lcc . <[hidden email]>
>> >> Objet: Re: [Gramps-devel] GEPS 006: New Locality
>> field added to the
>> >> database
>> >> À: "Nick Hall" <[hidden email]>
>> >> Cc: "Gramps developers" <[hidden email]>
>> >> Date: Mercredi 27 octobre 2010, 21h19
>> >> I was reading some discussion
>> >> concerning Gramps and genealogy software
>> >> on the internet the other day and was impressed to
>> find
>> >> that,
>> >> according to those writing, some of the place
>> fields are
>> >> lost on
>> >> Gramps' export to GEDCOM. It'd be quite nice to
>> fix this.
>> >>
>> >> Regards,
>> >> --lcc
>> >>
>> >> On 10/27/10, Nick Hall <[hidden email]>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > Devs,
>> >> >
>> >> > As part of "GEPS 006: Better Place handling"
>> I have
>> >> added a new Locality
>> >> > field to Location between Street and City.
>> >> >
>> >> > http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=GEPS_006:_Better_Place_handling#Good_definition_of_place_and_address.2Fresidence_event_in_Gramps
>> >> >
>> >> > You will need to either upgrade a database
>> from
>> >> version 3.2 or import
>> >> > from XML.
>> >> >
>> >> > An extra column has been added to the Place
>> Views, so
>> >> please also delete
>> >> > the corresponding .ini files.
>> >> >
>> >> > So far I have only added the extra field to
>> the
>> >> interface for Places.
>> >> > The field is also present in the Address and
>> >> Researcher objects.  Should
>> >> > I add it to the user interface for
>> these?  It
>> >> would seem to be a good idea.
>> >> >
>> >> > Let me know if you have any problems.
>> >> >
>> >> > Regards,
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Nick.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> > Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling
>> All
>> >> Innovators-North America contest
>> >> > Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8
>> for
>> >> consumers in  U.S. and Canada
>> >> > $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500
>> devices,
>> >> nearly $6M in marketing
>> >> > Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or
>> Java and
>> >> Publish to Ovi Store
>> >> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev
>> >> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> >> > Gramps-devel mailing list
>> >> > [hidden email]
>> >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All
>> >> Innovators-North America contest
>> >> Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for
>> consumers
>> >> in  U.S. and Canada
>> >> $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500
>> devices, nearly
>> >> $6M in marketing
>> >> Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java
>> and Publish
>> >> to Ovi Store
>> >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Gramps-devel mailing list
>> >> [hidden email]
>> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest
Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in  U.S. and Canada
$10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing
Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store
http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev
_______________________________________________
Gramps-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest
Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in  U.S. and Canada
$10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing
Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store
http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev
_______________________________________________
Gramps-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: GEPS 006: New Locality field added to the database

Benny Malengier


2010/10/28 Benny Malengier <[hidden email]>


2010/10/28 lcc . <[hidden email]>

Here, read this. My understanding is that people are entering place
information in the fields you are providing to them, instead of in a
single field. Then some of these fields are disappearing on export. We
wouldn't want that, eh? Enlighten me if that's not the case.

http://groups.google.com/group/soc.genealogy.methods/browse_thread/thread/ca1bdaef2ffc5bcb/3260844315e3952b

As they say there:
"It omits the county (WRY) and church parish (Kirkburton).  And by no
stretch of the imagination ca Hepworth be described as a city."

As this has been brought to our attention, and as GEDCOM allows ADDR to contain this, we can fix it. Parish is a problem however, GEDCOM has not support for it as far as I can tell.

Also, they don't like that Hepworth is a city, however, Gramps holds only a city field, so users must use Gramps correctly and add that to the Place Name field only if they don't want it in the CITY field of Gedcom.

So, we can fix these except Parish, which is a Gramps only feature. Other genea programs then extend Gedcom with new tags, eg _PRSH. Gramps has always opted not to extend gedcom with tags nobody else can read.

Anyway, reading that thread, I would go for use of or PLAC FORM after all in Gramps. The example being:

1 FORM specific, city, locality, county, country 

Then using that to read in comma seperated values on the PLAC line.
We can leave the country, city, ... tags for safety to support programs that do not read FORM.

Benny


Benny

On 10/28/10, jerome <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> You people can't be adding abstraction layers and then
>> ignoring that
>> information is being lost on export. That's just wrong.
>
> I do not understand !
>
>> according to those writing, some of the place
>> fields are lost on Gramps' export to GEDCOM.
>> It'd be quite nice to fix this.
>
> What should be fixed ?
> If Gramps properly exports Place title field, _everything_ about place is
> exported (according Gedcom 5.5 file format). Current Exporter extends
> support because there was request for that and/or it was user data. Should
> location's fields and coordinates be ignored ?
>
> What is ignored on export ?
> How do you get data ? (import Gedcom, then export Gedcom)
> Do you follow the Gedcom 5.5 spec ?
>
> Maybe I missed your post with the sample of data not properly exported ?
>
>
> Jérôme
>
> --- En date de : Jeu 28.10.10, lcc . <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>
>> De: lcc . <[hidden email]>
>> Objet: Re: [Gramps-devel] GEPS 006: New Locality field added to the
>> database
>> À: "jerome" <[hidden email]>
>> Cc: "Nick Hall" <[hidden email]>, "Gramps developers"
>> <[hidden email]>
>> Date: Jeudi 28 octobre 2010, 14h07
>> It is quite simple Jerome. I don't
>> much care if the other program
>> supports it or not, as long as the information is present
>> in the
>> exported GEDCOM file. That's the best we can do.
>>
>> You people can't be adding abstraction layers and then
>> ignoring that
>> information is being lost on export. That's just wrong.
>>
>> --lcc
>> On 10/28/10, jerome <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>> > On export or import into an other program ?
>> >
>> > Because, I also answered on a french forum about
>> location.
>> > Gramps exports location fields linked to the place
>> name/title.
>> >
>> > But most genealogical programs do not support these
>> fields there. It is like
>> > having address on a place name/title. Same possible
>> issue with coordinates.
>> >
>> > Strict Gedcom 5.5 support will mean to ignore these
>> data related to place
>> > name/title. Gramps aims to help user to properly
>> export all its data, even
>> > if not imported by others programs...
>> >
>> >
>> > Jérôme
>> >
>> > --- En date de : Mer 27.10.10, lcc . <[hidden email]>
>> a écrit :
>> >
>> >> De: lcc . <[hidden email]>
>> >> Objet: Re: [Gramps-devel] GEPS 006: New Locality
>> field added to the
>> >> database
>> >> À: "Nick Hall" <[hidden email]>
>> >> Cc: "Gramps developers" <[hidden email]>
>> >> Date: Mercredi 27 octobre 2010, 21h19
>> >> I was reading some discussion
>> >> concerning Gramps and genealogy software
>> >> on the internet the other day and was impressed to
>> find
>> >> that,
>> >> according to those writing, some of the place
>> fields are
>> >> lost on
>> >> Gramps' export to GEDCOM. It'd be quite nice to
>> fix this.
>> >>
>> >> Regards,
>> >> --lcc
>> >>
>> >> On 10/27/10, Nick Hall <[hidden email]>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > Devs,
>> >> >
>> >> > As part of "GEPS 006: Better Place handling"
>> I have
>> >> added a new Locality
>> >> > field to Location between Street and City.
>> >> >
>> >> > http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=GEPS_006:_Better_Place_handling#Good_definition_of_place_and_address.2Fresidence_event_in_Gramps
>> >> >
>> >> > You will need to either upgrade a database
>> from
>> >> version 3.2 or import
>> >> > from XML.
>> >> >
>> >> > An extra column has been added to the Place
>> Views, so
>> >> please also delete
>> >> > the corresponding .ini files.
>> >> >
>> >> > So far I have only added the extra field to
>> the
>> >> interface for Places.
>> >> > The field is also present in the Address and
>> >> Researcher objects.  Should
>> >> > I add it to the user interface for
>> these?  It
>> >> would seem to be a good idea.
>> >> >
>> >> > Let me know if you have any problems.
>> >> >
>> >> > Regards,
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Nick.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> > Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling
>> All
>> >> Innovators-North America contest
>> >> > Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8
>> for
>> >> consumers in  U.S. and Canada
>> >> > $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500
>> devices,
>> >> nearly $6M in marketing
>> >> > Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or
>> Java and
>> >> Publish to Ovi Store
>> >> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev
>> >> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> >> > Gramps-devel mailing list
>> >> > [hidden email]
>> >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All
>> >> Innovators-North America contest
>> >> Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for
>> consumers
>> >> in  U.S. and Canada
>> >> $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500
>> devices, nearly
>> >> $6M in marketing
>> >> Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java
>> and Publish
>> >> to Ovi Store
>> >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Gramps-devel mailing list
>> >> [hidden email]
>> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest
Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in  U.S. and Canada
$10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing
Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store
http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev
_______________________________________________
Gramps-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest
Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in  U.S. and Canada
$10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing
Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store
http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev
_______________________________________________
Gramps-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: GEPS 006: New Locality field added to the database

Benny Malengier
In reply to this post by lcc .


2010/10/28 lcc . <[hidden email]>
Here, read this. My understanding is that people are entering place
information in the fields you are providing to them, instead of in a
single field. Then some of these fields are disappearing on export. We
wouldn't want that, eh? Enlighten me if that's not the case.

http://groups.google.com/group/soc.genealogy.methods/browse_thread/thread/ca1bdaef2ffc5bcb/3260844315e3952b

I must say these people can write a huge amount of text for little use.
Perhaps you can mention that just raising the problem to Gramps allows for easy fixes.
It's not like we are hard to get hold of.

Benny


On 10/28/10, jerome <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> You people can't be adding abstraction layers and then
>> ignoring that
>> information is being lost on export. That's just wrong.
>
> I do not understand !
>
>> according to those writing, some of the place
>> fields are lost on Gramps' export to GEDCOM.
>> It'd be quite nice to fix this.
>
> What should be fixed ?
> If Gramps properly exports Place title field, _everything_ about place is
> exported (according Gedcom 5.5 file format). Current Exporter extends
> support because there was request for that and/or it was user data. Should
> location's fields and coordinates be ignored ?
>
> What is ignored on export ?
> How do you get data ? (import Gedcom, then export Gedcom)
> Do you follow the Gedcom 5.5 spec ?
>
> Maybe I missed your post with the sample of data not properly exported ?
>
>
> Jérôme
>
> --- En date de : Jeu 28.10.10, lcc . <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>
>> De: lcc . <[hidden email]>
>> Objet: Re: [Gramps-devel] GEPS 006: New Locality field added to the
>> database
>> À: "jerome" <[hidden email]>
>> Cc: "Nick Hall" <[hidden email]>, "Gramps developers"
>> <[hidden email]>
>> Date: Jeudi 28 octobre 2010, 14h07
>> It is quite simple Jerome. I don't
>> much care if the other program
>> supports it or not, as long as the information is present
>> in the
>> exported GEDCOM file. That's the best we can do.
>>
>> You people can't be adding abstraction layers and then
>> ignoring that
>> information is being lost on export. That's just wrong.
>>
>> --lcc
>> On 10/28/10, jerome <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>> > On export or import into an other program ?
>> >
>> > Because, I also answered on a french forum about
>> location.
>> > Gramps exports location fields linked to the place
>> name/title.
>> >
>> > But most genealogical programs do not support these
>> fields there. It is like
>> > having address on a place name/title. Same possible
>> issue with coordinates.
>> >
>> > Strict Gedcom 5.5 support will mean to ignore these
>> data related to place
>> > name/title. Gramps aims to help user to properly
>> export all its data, even
>> > if not imported by others programs...
>> >
>> >
>> > Jérôme
>> >
>> > --- En date de : Mer 27.10.10, lcc . <[hidden email]>
>> a écrit :
>> >
>> >> De: lcc . <[hidden email]>
>> >> Objet: Re: [Gramps-devel] GEPS 006: New Locality
>> field added to the
>> >> database
>> >> À: "Nick Hall" <[hidden email]>
>> >> Cc: "Gramps developers" <[hidden email]>
>> >> Date: Mercredi 27 octobre 2010, 21h19
>> >> I was reading some discussion
>> >> concerning Gramps and genealogy software
>> >> on the internet the other day and was impressed to
>> find
>> >> that,
>> >> according to those writing, some of the place
>> fields are
>> >> lost on
>> >> Gramps' export to GEDCOM. It'd be quite nice to
>> fix this.
>> >>
>> >> Regards,
>> >> --lcc
>> >>
>> >> On 10/27/10, Nick Hall <[hidden email]>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > Devs,
>> >> >
>> >> > As part of "GEPS 006: Better Place handling"
>> I have
>> >> added a new Locality
>> >> > field to Location between Street and City.
>> >> >
>> >> > http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=GEPS_006:_Better_Place_handling#Good_definition_of_place_and_address.2Fresidence_event_in_Gramps
>> >> >
>> >> > You will need to either upgrade a database
>> from
>> >> version 3.2 or import
>> >> > from XML.
>> >> >
>> >> > An extra column has been added to the Place
>> Views, so
>> >> please also delete
>> >> > the corresponding .ini files.
>> >> >
>> >> > So far I have only added the extra field to
>> the
>> >> interface for Places.
>> >> > The field is also present in the Address and
>> >> Researcher objects.  Should
>> >> > I add it to the user interface for
>> these?  It
>> >> would seem to be a good idea.
>> >> >
>> >> > Let me know if you have any problems.
>> >> >
>> >> > Regards,
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Nick.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> > Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling
>> All
>> >> Innovators-North America contest
>> >> > Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8
>> for
>> >> consumers in  U.S. and Canada
>> >> > $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500
>> devices,
>> >> nearly $6M in marketing
>> >> > Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or
>> Java and
>> >> Publish to Ovi Store
>> >> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev
>> >> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> >> > Gramps-devel mailing list
>> >> > [hidden email]
>> >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All
>> >> Innovators-North America contest
>> >> Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for
>> consumers
>> >> in  U.S. and Canada
>> >> $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500
>> devices, nearly
>> >> $6M in marketing
>> >> Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java
>> and Publish
>> >> to Ovi Store
>> >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Gramps-devel mailing list
>> >> [hidden email]
>> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest
Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in  U.S. and Canada
$10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing
Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store
http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev
_______________________________________________
Gramps-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest
Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in  U.S. and Canada
$10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing
Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store
http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev
_______________________________________________
Gramps-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: GEPS 006: New Locality field added to the database

lcc .
Indeed Benny, those people are not very interested in Gramps
themselves. Still, their writings can only be seen as beneficial to
us, who are. And this is indeed a development procedure problem. I
don't much miss the new fields. To me it'd be better to have a single
field and a solid export. So if you're (in this case, Nick)
implementing these abstractions, it is your duty to make sure they're
not failing to export. This is thus a huge bug in my opinion and it
made Gramps look bad. But nothing is perfect.

About your design comments, I think it'd be nice if we could use both
methods at once, PLAC.FORM and the specific tags, if that won't cause
trouble, which is something to check.

--lcc

On 10/28/10, Benny Malengier <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 2010/10/28 lcc . <[hidden email]>
>
>> Here, read this. My understanding is that people are entering place
>> information in the fields you are providing to them, instead of in a
>> single field. Then some of these fields are disappearing on export. We
>> wouldn't want that, eh? Enlighten me if that's not the case.
>>
>>
>> http://groups.google.com/group/soc.genealogy.methods/browse_thread/thread/ca1bdaef2ffc5bcb/3260844315e3952b
>>
>
> I must say these people can write a huge amount of text for little use.
> Perhaps you can mention that just raising the problem to Gramps allows for
> easy fixes.
> It's not like we are hard to get hold of.
>
> Benny
>
>
>> On 10/28/10, jerome <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >> You people can't be adding abstraction layers and then
>> >> ignoring that
>> >> information is being lost on export. That's just wrong.
>> >
>> > I do not understand !
>> >
>> >> according to those writing, some of the place
>> >> fields are lost on Gramps' export to GEDCOM.
>> >> It'd be quite nice to fix this.
>> >
>> > What should be fixed ?
>> > If Gramps properly exports Place title field, _everything_ about place
>> > is
>> > exported (according Gedcom 5.5 file format). Current Exporter extends
>> > support because there was request for that and/or it was user data.
>> Should
>> > location's fields and coordinates be ignored ?
>> >
>> > What is ignored on export ?
>> > How do you get data ? (import Gedcom, then export Gedcom)
>> > Do you follow the Gedcom 5.5 spec ?
>> >
>> > Maybe I missed your post with the sample of data not properly exported ?
>> >
>> >
>> > Jérôme
>> >
>> > --- En date de : Jeu 28.10.10, lcc . <[hidden email]> a écrit
>> :
>> >
>> >> De: lcc . <[hidden email]>
>> >> Objet: Re: [Gramps-devel] GEPS 006: New Locality field added to the
>> >> database
>> >> À: "jerome" <[hidden email]>
>> >> Cc: "Nick Hall" <[hidden email]>, "Gramps developers"
>> >> <[hidden email]>
>> >> Date: Jeudi 28 octobre 2010, 14h07
>> >> It is quite simple Jerome. I don't
>> >> much care if the other program
>> >> supports it or not, as long as the information is present
>> >> in the
>> >> exported GEDCOM file. That's the best we can do.
>> >>
>> >> You people can't be adding abstraction layers and then
>> >> ignoring that
>> >> information is being lost on export. That's just wrong.
>> >>
>> >> --lcc
>> >> On 10/28/10, jerome <[hidden email]>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > On export or import into an other program ?
>> >> >
>> >> > Because, I also answered on a french forum about
>> >> location.
>> >> > Gramps exports location fields linked to the place
>> >> name/title.
>> >> >
>> >> > But most genealogical programs do not support these
>> >> fields there. It is like
>> >> > having address on a place name/title. Same possible
>> >> issue with coordinates.
>> >> >
>> >> > Strict Gedcom 5.5 support will mean to ignore these
>> >> data related to place
>> >> > name/title. Gramps aims to help user to properly
>> >> export all its data, even
>> >> > if not imported by others programs...
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Jérôme
>> >> >
>> >> > --- En date de : Mer 27.10.10, lcc . <[hidden email]>
>> >> a écrit :
>> >> >
>> >> >> De: lcc . <[hidden email]>
>> >> >> Objet: Re: [Gramps-devel] GEPS 006: New Locality
>> >> field added to the
>> >> >> database
>> >> >> À: "Nick Hall" <[hidden email]>
>> >> >> Cc: "Gramps developers" <[hidden email]>
>> >> >> Date: Mercredi 27 octobre 2010, 21h19
>> >> >> I was reading some discussion
>> >> >> concerning Gramps and genealogy software
>> >> >> on the internet the other day and was impressed to
>> >> find
>> >> >> that,
>> >> >> according to those writing, some of the place
>> >> fields are
>> >> >> lost on
>> >> >> Gramps' export to GEDCOM. It'd be quite nice to
>> >> fix this.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Regards,
>> >> >> --lcc
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On 10/27/10, Nick Hall <[hidden email]>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> > Devs,
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > As part of "GEPS 006: Better Place handling"
>> >> I have
>> >> >> added a new Locality
>> >> >> > field to Location between Street and City.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=GEPS_006:_Better_Place_handling#Good_definition_of_place_and_address.2Fresidence_event_in_Gramps
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > You will need to either upgrade a database
>> >> from
>> >> >> version 3.2 or import
>> >> >> > from XML.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > An extra column has been added to the Place
>> >> Views, so
>> >> >> please also delete
>> >> >> > the corresponding .ini files.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > So far I have only added the extra field to
>> >> the
>> >> >> interface for Places.
>> >> >> > The field is also present in the Address and
>> >> >> Researcher objects.  Should
>> >> >> > I add it to the user interface for
>> >> these?  It
>> >> >> would seem to be a good idea.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Let me know if you have any problems.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Regards,
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Nick.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >> > Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling
>> >> All
>> >> >> Innovators-North America contest
>> >> >> > Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8
>> >> for
>> >> >> consumers in  U.S. and Canada
>> >> >> > $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500
>> >> devices,
>> >> >> nearly $6M in marketing
>> >> >> > Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or
>> >> Java and
>> >> >> Publish to Ovi Store
>> >> >> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev
>> >> >> >
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> > Gramps-devel mailing list
>> >> >> > [hidden email]
>> >> >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >> Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All
>> >> >> Innovators-North America contest
>> >> >> Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for
>> >> consumers
>> >> >> in  U.S. and Canada
>> >> >> $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500
>> >> devices, nearly
>> >> >> $6M in marketing
>> >> >> Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java
>> >> and Publish
>> >> >> to Ovi Store
>> >> >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> Gramps-devel mailing list
>> >> >> [hidden email]
>> >> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America
>> contest
>> Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in  U.S. and Canada
>> $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in
>> marketing
>> Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gramps-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
>>
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest
Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in  U.S. and Canada
$10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing
Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store
http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev
_______________________________________________
Gramps-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
123
Loading...