GRAMPS Places usage question - links

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GRAMPS Places usage question - links

John Bissett
Nick:

Thanks for your reply.

On: 2017-06-22 4:49 PM you wrote:

| Put the date ranges on the links rather than the place names.
|
| Nick.

I could not find an object or a field called "link".  I looked in the
GRAMPS documentation Wiki and in  People, Places and Geography in GRAMPS .
Can you guide me to where the "link" and "link date" are found?

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Re: GRAMPS Places usage question - links

Dave Scheipers
Hi John,

In the Place Record, There is an "Enclosed By" tab (This is the links Nick was suggesting. So a smaller place, the city, is "Enclosed by" a larger location, the county. And the county will be "Enclosed By" the next entity up; the state or province. And the state or province will be enclosed by the next larger location..

The smaller location can be enclosed by more than one larger entity and which "path" the generated place name takes will be determined by the dates you set for the enclosed by location. I always sort the "Enclosed By" list starting with the most recent which typically will have an "after <date." And the others going back in tame using "from <date. to <date>. This helps so a time period is not overlooked.

The use of the alternative names tab with attached dates is so you can have that place reflect its changed name through time. A city may at one time had one name, but has since changed its name. So the generated place name will reflect these changes along with which county or state it was a part of throughout its history.

The place name generator will go down the lists and will select the first valid option based upon the date of the event. If there is no valid option for the date of the event of the place name, the question mark (?) will be displayed. If there is no valid option in the enclosed by list, the generated place name will stop where it is.

I hope this helps, Dave


On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 1:30 PM, John Bissett <[hidden email]> wrote:
Nick:

Thanks for your reply.

On: 2017-06-22 4:49 PM you wrote:

| Put the date ranges on the links rather than the place names.
|
| Nick.

I could not find an object or a field called "link".  I looked in the GRAMPS documentation Wiki and in  People, Places and Geography in GRAMPS .
Can you guide me to where the "link" and "link date" are found?

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Re: GRAMPS Places usage question - links

Nick Hall
On 24/06/17 03:39, John Bissett wrote:
>
> Even though dates were configured for the counties using the place
> name editor there are no dates showing on the "Enclosed by" list. Is
> there a "Link date" that I should be configuring? If so, how do I
> configure it?
>
Edit the links in the "Enclosed By" tab, either by double-clicking on
them, or by selecting them and then clicking the "edit" (paper and
pencil) button.

Put the date ranges in the links rather than the place names.

Nick.



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Re: GRAMPS Places usage question - links

Phylis Sophical
Most interesting. I was wondering how to deal with town name changes.
A bit picky, but a question on how to record dates, example
Chatham, NB incorporated 1896 / Changed to 'Mirimachi, NB' in 1995
inserting date for Chatham, do I use 'date range' and insert 1896-1995 (or 1994?)
For Mirimachi, do I just use "Regular', put in 1995 with no end date?
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Re: GRAMPS Places usage question - links

Dave Scheipers
Hi Phylis

In the Place Name editor put the place as 'Mirimachi with the date after 1994. This puts the starting date as 1 Jan 1995 unless you have the specific date. Then I would put after <date> minus one day. Any time you use after to select the time frame, it will actually exclude the date you use. Something to keep in mind.

If you do not add the modifier to the date entry and only put 1995, only event dates in 1995 would be valid. Any date after 1995 would cause the Place Name generator to insert a question mark (?) in its place not knowing what to do.

In the Alternate Places list add Chatham  with the dates from 1896 to1995. Think about that lower date. The 1896 is when it received an official recognition. But what was it called before 1896 when maybe people lived there but the place had no official recognition. So do not be afraid to put an even earlier date. Or it could have been known by a third earlier name. This can also be added using the same rules.

You also need to think about what will be placed in the place field for an event with no date. You often know where someone is buried but not the actual date. One way to enter it is "after the death date" Personally I do not like this, But there are other life events you know occurred, just not when to put a date on it. The Place Name Generator will treat it as the earliest date possible. Or think of it as 1 January  year 1. For this reason, I will add the current place name again to the bottom of the list with no dates attached; in effect becoming the default valid option. The alternative is to use the date "before 1995" in the Chatham entry. But an event with no date would select "Chatham" as the valid entry which you may not want as the displayed name.

I hope this helped or at least gave you more to think about, Dave



On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 12:48 PM, Phylis Sophical <[hidden email]> wrote:
Most interesting. I was wondering how to deal with town name changes.
A bit picky, but a question on how to record dates, example
Chatham, NB incorporated 1896 / Changed to 'Mirimachi, NB' in 1995
inserting date for Chatham, do I use 'date range' and insert 1896-1995 (or
1994?)
For Mirimachi, do I just use "Regular', put in 1995 with no end date?




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Re: GRAMPS Places usage question - links

Phylis Sophical
Are you saying that I should not make a separate 'Places' entry for Chatham? Just have it as an 'Alternate Name' under Miramichi?
I've experimented with entering Miramichi, when in fact the place should be Chatham because the date is pre name change, but it only comes up as Miramichi, it doesn't change to Chatham because the Miramichi name didn't exist in 1934.
I think I'm missing a point here.

Info so far:
Chatham  http://tinyurl.com/y9cbld5o
Founded 1800 (called The Spruce Tree)
incorporated, Mar 20, 1896
(In the 'Date', I've put 'from 1800 to Jan 11, 1995)

Miramichi http://tinyurl.com/ycwaeg29
Created Jan 11, 1995
(In the 'Date', I've put 'after Jan 10, 1995'
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Re: GRAMPS Places usage question - links

Dave Scheipers
Hi Phylis,

First, the change of Name only happens with the Enable Automatic Place Title Generation checked in the Preference/Places tab. With that enabled, you select the Miramichi and Chatham should show once the event is set when you finish editing the record.

But reading the two links you found, Miramichi as it exists today is not a new name change for Chatham. Chatham was annexed along with other communities into a single larger city, Miramichi .

So for Chatham, according to its website, 
Place Name = Chatham with the date "after 1842" (unless you have specific dates)
and Alternative Names 
Miramichi  with the date  "from 1825 to 1843"
The Spruce Tree  with the date "from 1820 to 1825"

I would also add as the last entry Chatham again with no dates set as the default name for those events with no dates. With the list I suggest, an event with no date would show ? without having this default option. 

The new question is does Chatham exist today as a Neighborhood within the new Miramichi and still referred to as such or did it just disappear?

With Miramichi  as the new city incorporating the smaller neighborhood former cities, I would have Miramichi as its own record enclosed by the county record Northumberland. I would then edit the Chatham record (and all the other annexed communities) and in their Enclosed By tab I would have this new Miramichi  city record with the date field 'after Jan 10, 1995'. As a second entry I would have the Northumberland county record with no dates. So when you select Chatham with a dat before 1995 it would show Chatham, Nothumberland.... After 1995 Chatham, Miramichi, Northumberland....

So the only decision you would need to make is for an after 1995, do you select the neighborhood Chatham or the larger City Miramichi. Most official documents would probably have Miramichi and that is all you would know. But often you could know an event happened in Chatham while it was a part of Miramichi.

There could also be an issue if you have specific addresses and how these may be affected with these date option. I'll help suggest a way to handle these once you get comfortable with what I posted above.

Good luck, Dave


On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 12:08 PM, Phylis Sophical <[hidden email]> wrote:
Are you saying that I should not make a separate 'Places' entry for Chatham?
Just have it as an 'Alternate Name' under Miramichi?
I've experimented with entering Miramichi, when in fact the place should be
Chatham because the date is pre name change, but it only comes up as
Miramichi, it doesn't change to Chatham because the Miramichi name didn't
exist in 1934.
I think I'm missing a point here.

*Info so far:*
Chatham  http://tinyurl.com/y9cbld5o
Founded 1800 (called The Spruce Tree)
incorporated, Mar 20, 1896
(In the 'Date', I've put 'from 1800 to Jan 11, 1995)

Miramichi http://tinyurl.com/ycwaeg29
Created Jan 11, 1995
(In the 'Date', I've put 'after Jan 10, 1995'




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Re: GRAMPS Places usage question - links

Phylis Sophical
I had 'Enable automatic place Title Generation' turned off. Turning it on and entering Miramichi for dates previous to 1995 changed it to Chatham.
However, having 'Enable' on, generates the whole string of 'Enclosed by' in the person's profile as well as in reports.. ie: Town > Parish > County > Province > Country  That's why I turned it off.

Also, what would happen if I put all of the 10 towns that amalgamated into Miramichi, as 'Alternative Names'? Would there not be a date conflict for anything pre 1995?

FYI, all of these little communities are now known as Miramichi and no longer use their original name.

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Re: GRAMPS Places usage question - links

Dave Scheipers
Without the place title generator enabled, it is impossible to have the place name change automatically based upon the event date. You would have to create a static record for each location and manually set what you want displayed. It's a trade off that only you can answer.

Most of my place records are set as static displays. It is only recently that I have figured out how to set up the dynamic display option especially how and what to display for events with no date. It's slow going converting all my place records.

As to the other towns that were amalgamated into Miramichi, they would each have their own record and set up similar to Chatham. After 1995 enclosed under Miramichi and the county record as all other options (if this is in fact true, These places would have their own histories that may differ.)

And I just remembered in the preferences where you enable the place title generator, there are additional options to restrict what is displayed. The default is the full place name. I have not enable these options but you might what to explore  them. This option may tie in to having those location Types being used with no deviation to display correctly.

I hop this has helped clarify the options available.  Dave

On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 11:44 AM, Phylis Sophical <[hidden email]> wrote:
I had 'Enable automatic place Title Generation' turned off. Turning it on and
entering Miramichi for dates previous to 1995 changed it to Chatham.
However, having 'Enable' on, generates the whole string of 'Enclosed by' in
the person's profile as well as in reports.. ie: Town > Parish > County >
Province > Country  That's why I turned it off.

Also, what would happen if I put all of the 10 towns that amalgamated into
Miramichi, as 'Alternative Names'? Would there not be a date conflict for
anything pre 1995?

FYI, all of these little communities are now known as Miramichi and no
longer use their original name.





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Re: GRAMPS Places usage question - links

Phylis Sophical
I have played around with the three options under Preference > Places > Restrict. The results are:
Full place name: generates 'Chatham NB, Chatham Parish, Northumberland Co., New Brunswick, Canada'
-> Hamlet/Village/Town/City: generates 'Chatham NB'
Hamlet/Village/Town/City->: generates 'Chatham NB, Chatham Parish, Northumberland Co., New Brunswick, Canada'

So the first and third seem to be the same result. Note I have included in the 'Name', the abbreviation for the Province / State. This is to make it easier to Search for locations that have the same name, but are in different states / province. example: Bristol, Connecticut & Bristol, Ontario.
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Re: GRAMPS Places usage question - links

Dave Scheipers
Hi Phylis,

Understanding what is happening, the arrow shows what is included by selecting the restrictive options.
Things leading to -> Hamlet/Village/Town/City; ie street addresses, churches and cemeteries would be included.

The arrow going away would exclude the street address, churches and cemeteries but take Hamlet/Village/Town/City to its conclusion.

Of course adding the NB to Chatham is your option. But when you use Find when selecting for a place, the Northumberland Co., New Brunswick, Canada also shows in the title. And something you may not be aware of, when you select for an existing place, the place list currently defaults to automatically expanding. In future versions, the list will be collapsed. Not sure how that may affect your decision to add the NB to Chatham.

The only other observation is the mixing of civil and ecclesiastical entities. Personally, I do not add them. While the region may be predominantly of the dominant, in this case catholic, religion, not everything or person you find will be. Maybe have the parish record be the link for affiliated churches and cemeteries, ie St. Michael's Basilica, Chatham Parish, Northumberland Co., New Brunswick, Canada  while Chatham, Northumberland Co., New Brunswick, Canada  

Just my 2 cents worth. The choice is of course yours. Just want you to think about your options before adding too many records and then deciding to do it another way.

Dave



On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 1:00 PM, Phylis Sophical <[hidden email]> wrote:
I have played around with the three options under Preference > Places >
Restrict. The results are:
*Full place name:* generates 'Chatham NB, Chatham Parish, Northumberland
Co., New Brunswick, Canada'
*-> Hamlet/Village/Town/City*: generates 'Chatham NB'
*Hamlet/Village/Town/City->*: generates 'Chatham NB, Chatham Parish,
Northumberland Co., New Brunswick, Canada'

So the first and third seem to be the same result. Note I have included in
the 'Name', the abbreviation for the Province / State. This is to make it
easier to Search for locations that have the same name, but are in different
states / province. example: Bristol, Connecticut & Bristol, Ontario.




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