Quantcast

GUI changes

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
24 messages Options
12
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

GUI changes

Benny Malengier
I did some GUI changes in trunk after trying Gramps on a smaller monitor with text in the toolbar.

1. Shorter texts for views. So instead of Person View, now Persons, ...
2. Category Ancestry now is named 'Graphs', so as to be more correct it is not only ancestry
3. In a toolbar, the most used should be at the front, as the back might not fit on the screen. So I changed the order, and reduced the number of seperators
 a) fam tree manager
 b) navigation (back forward home)
 separator
 c) basic edit (like add delete person)
 d) tag
 e) clipboard
 separator
 f) Config view
 g) switch views
separator
 h) reports and tools dialog

This order corresponds to the order in the menu, so is more consistent in my opinion
4. Configure View... -> Configure... (it is in the View menu)

Try it before shooting it down :-)

Benny
 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
_______________________________________________
Gramps-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: GUI changes

Martin Steer-2
On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 10:16:00AM +0200, Benny Malengier wrote:
>I did some GUI changes in trunk after trying Gramps on a smaller monitor with
>text in the toolbar.
>
>1. Shorter texts for views. So instead of Person View, now Persons, ...

Not shooting, just remarking that 'People' is more natural English than
'Persons'.

M.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
_______________________________________________
Gramps-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: GUI changes

Nick Hall-6
In reply to this post by Benny Malengier
Benny,

I like these changes.  We need to think more about smaller screen sizes.

1. I started to do this by removing the word "gramplet" from the title of gramplets.  I think we should go even further and remove the word "report" from reports, and "graph" from graphs, "tool" from tools etc...

2. "Ancestry" was not right, but I don't think that "Graph" is either for this category.

3. I have never liked the idea of having icons to switch view in the toolbar.  I said so at the time, but obviously nobody else agreed with me.

Nick.


On 18/09/12 09:16, Benny Malengier wrote:
I did some GUI changes in trunk after trying Gramps on a smaller monitor with text in the toolbar.

1. Shorter texts for views. So instead of Person View, now Persons, ...
2. Category Ancestry now is named 'Graphs', so as to be more correct it is not only ancestry
3. In a toolbar, the most used should be at the front, as the back might not fit on the screen. So I changed the order, and reduced the number of seperators
 a) fam tree manager
 b) navigation (back forward home)
 separator
 c) basic edit (like add delete person)
 d) tag
 e) clipboard
 separator
 f) Config view
 g) switch views
separator
 h) reports and tools dialog

This order corresponds to the order in the menu, so is more consistent in my opinion
4. Configure View... -> Configure... (it is in the View menu)

Try it before shooting it down :-)

Benny
 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/


_______________________________________________
Gramps-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
_______________________________________________
Gramps-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: GUI changes

Benny Malengier
In reply to this post by Martin Steer-2


2012/9/18 Martin Steer <[hidden email]>
On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 10:16:00AM +0200, Benny Malengier wrote:
>I did some GUI changes in trunk after trying Gramps on a smaller monitor with
>text in the toolbar.
>
>1. Shorter texts for views. So instead of Person View, now Persons, ...

Not shooting, just remarking that 'People' is more natural English than
'Persons'.

Hmm, I would need to know if you are English before agreeing on this. I was thinking, one person, two persons, ... . Don't mind changing it to People and People Tree for the view.

B.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
_______________________________________________
Gramps-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: GUI changes

Benny Malengier
In reply to this post by Nick Hall-6


2012/9/18 Nick Hall <[hidden email]>
Benny,

I like these changes.  We need to think more about smaller screen sizes.

1. I started to do this by removing the word "gramplet" from the title of gramplets.  I think we should go even further and remove the word "report" from reports, and "graph" from graphs, "tool" from tools etc...

Yes. We only have to be careful that people in their communication still use terms we as developers understand. So it is important that tooltips and such still contain the full wording. For a window title header, it can also reduce confusion during communication to have the longer working.

2. "Ancestry" was not right, but I don't think that "Graph" is either for this category.

Yes, but I can't think about a better name. Pedigree, Fan, timeline, ... all are under this category. Anybody better suggestions? It should be something new users want to check out, which is why I chose Graphs. A user will want to click this.

3. I have never liked the idea of having icons to switch view in the toolbar.  I said so at the time, but obviously nobody else agreed with me.

It is clear the icons don't really scale. The problem is discoverability of the views. How can we guarantee this? Some options:

1. a notebook with tabs.
Pro: very visual, user should notice it.
Contra: we loose again a large amount of vertical pixels. I really dislike this. Interface becomes overly cluttered.

2. expanding category sidebar (so category and view are visible in the category sidebar)
Pro: very visual, user should notice it
Contra: bottom of the sidebar will become invisible. A type of jojo effect in the sidebar on clicking around is not very nice.

3. dropdown selection in the toolbar
Pro: less space needed. Toolbar does not scroll off the window
Contra: user will probably look over it, needs to see documentation to discover the other views.

4. icon per view in the toolbar (current way)
Pro: not extremely visible, but more so than 3. The icons of the views can attract the user to try it out.
Contra: something more easy to discover would be better, toolbar does not scale well as views are added.

Other possibilities?

Benny


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
_______________________________________________
Gramps-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: GUI changes

John Ralls-2
In reply to this post by Benny Malengier

On Sep 18, 2012, at 6:10 AM, Benny Malengier <[hidden email]> wrote:



2012/9/18 Martin Steer <[hidden email]>
On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 10:16:00AM +0200, Benny Malengier wrote:
>I did some GUI changes in trunk after trying Gramps on a smaller monitor with
>text in the toolbar.
>
>1. Shorter texts for views. So instead of Person View, now Persons, ...

Not shooting, just remarking that 'People' is more natural English than
'Persons'.

Hmm, I would need to know if you are English before agreeing on this. I was thinking, one person, two persons, ... . Don't mind changing it to People and People Tree for the view.

Based on his email address, he's Australian, and so probably a native English speaker. I'm American, a native English speaker, and I agree that "people" is a better plural of "person": "Persons" has a rather legalistic connotation. Neither is an ideal description of the view ("Person List" would be closer) but I can't off the top of my head think of a better one-word description than "People".

Regards,
John Ralls
 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
_______________________________________________
Gramps-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: GUI changes

Benny Malengier


2012/9/18 John Ralls <[hidden email]>

On Sep 18, 2012, at 6:10 AM, Benny Malengier <[hidden email]> wrote:



2012/9/18 Martin Steer <[hidden email]>
On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 10:16:00AM +0200, Benny Malengier wrote:
>I did some GUI changes in trunk after trying Gramps on a smaller monitor with
>text in the toolbar.
>
>1. Shorter texts for views. So instead of Person View, now Persons, ...

Not shooting, just remarking that 'People' is more natural English than
'Persons'.

Hmm, I would need to know if you are English before agreeing on this. I was thinking, one person, two persons, ... . Don't mind changing it to People and People Tree for the view.

Based on his email address, he's Australian, and so probably a native English speaker.

Looking at the "Australian Gold" beer commercials on the BBC, one might disagree :-)
I'll change it to People.
 
I'm American, a native English speaker, and I agree that "people" is a better plural of "person": "Persons" has a rather legalistic connotation. Neither is an ideal description of the view ("Person List" would be closer) but I can't off the top of my head think of a better one-word description than "People".

Regards,
John Ralls
 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
_______________________________________________
Gramps-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: GUI changes

Martin Steer-2
In reply to this post by Benny Malengier
On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 03:10:59PM +0200, Benny Malengier wrote:

>
>
>2012/9/18 Martin Steer <[hidden email]>
>
>    On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 10:16:00AM +0200, Benny Malengier wrote:
>    >I did some GUI changes in trunk after trying Gramps on a smaller monitor
>    with
>    >text in the toolbar.
>    >
>    >1. Shorter texts for views. So instead of Person View, now Persons, ...
>
>    Not shooting, just remarking that 'People' is more natural English than
>    'Persons'.
>
>
>Hmm, I would need to know if you are English before agreeing on this. I was
>thinking, one person, two persons, ... . Don't mind changing it to People and
>People Tree for the view.

I'm a native-speaker of English, but Australian.

The regular plural in the English I learned is never 'persons':

--> one person, two people, three people

--> How many people in your family?

--> They've caught the wrong people.

--> I gave it to the people at the door.

--> The American People will steadfastly...

'Persons' does have a life in a certain kind of police-speak:

--> Several persons were apprehended in the vicinity of the playground.

And I see that my dictionaries, rather perversely, use 'persons' when
defining 'people'.

I've been speaking English a long time, and have never needed 'persons',
except perhaps when naming a database table, and then reluctantly.

I'm not sure about 'People Tree'. 'Person Tree'?

M.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
_______________________________________________
Gramps-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: GUI changes

Tim Lyons
Administrator
In reply to this post by Benny Malengier
Benny Malengier wrote
2012/9/18 Martin Steer <[hidden email]>
> Not shooting, just remarking that 'People' is more natural English than
> 'Persons'.
>

Hmm, I would need to know if you are English before agreeing on this. I was
thinking, one person, two persons, ... . Don't mind changing it to People
and People Tree for the view.
Well, as the great C E M Joad [Wikipedia] would have said, it all depends what you mean by English.

When I use the word English, I mean English. The OED only allows one meaning in this sense "Of or relating to the West Germanic language spoken in England and also used in many varieties throughout the world (see sense B. 2a); (of words, idioms, grammar, etc.) belonging to the English language; (of literary compositions, speeches, etc.) written or spoken in the English language.".

When they use English Americans mean American English (and they use the US term British English for English). Judging by the email address Martin is probably natively Australian English. I'm not sure how different that is from English.

Anyway, I agree that Persons is not natural, and People is better. I think the English would be one person, two people, however unreasonable that might seem.

According to the OED: "An individual human being; a man, woman, or child. In ordinary usage, the unmarked plural is expressed by the word people; persons emphasizes the plurality and individuality of the referent (see people n. 2a)."

I'm not sure what is meant by "plurality and individuality", but they give the example later on of "Bible (A.V.) Luke xv. 7   Ninety and nine just persons.".

I'll get me coat. [Google videos or Urban Dictionary].

Pedants-R-us.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: GUI changes

Martin Steer-2
In reply to this post by Benny Malengier
On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 04:17:24PM +0200, Benny Malengier wrote:

>
>
>2012/9/18 John Ralls <[hidden email]>
>
>    Based on his email address, he's Australian, and so probably a native
>    English speaker.
>
>
>Looking at the "Australian Gold" beer commercials on the BBC, one might
>disagree :-)

Probably some pommy advertising agency. Probably a pommy beer, too.

M.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
_______________________________________________
Gramps-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: GUI changes

Benny Malengier
In reply to this post by Tim Lyons


2012/9/18 Tim Lyons <[hidden email]>
Benny Malengier wrote
> 2012/9/18 Martin Steer &lt;

> martinsteer@.net

> &gt;
>> Not shooting, just remarking that 'People' is more natural English than
>> 'Persons'.
>>
>
> Hmm, I would need to know if you are English before agreeing on this. I
> was
> thinking, one person, two persons, ... . Don't mind changing it to People
> and People Tree for the view.

Well, as the great C E M Joad [Wikipedia] would have said, it all depends
what you mean by English.

When I use the word English, I mean English. The OED only allows one meaning
in this sense "Of or relating to the West Germanic language spoken in
England and also used in many varieties throughout the world (see sense B.
2a); (of words, idioms, grammar, etc.) belonging to the English language;
(of literary compositions, speeches, etc.) written or spoken in the English
language.".

When they use English Americans mean American English (and they use the US
term British English for English). Judging by the email address Martin is
probably natively Australian English. I'm not sure how different that is
from English.

Anyway, I agree that Persons is not natural, and People is better. I think
the English would be one person, two people, however unreasonable that might
seem.

According to the OED: "An individual human being; a man, woman, or child. In
ordinary usage, the unmarked plural is expressed by the word people; persons
emphasizes the plurality and individuality of the referent (see people n.
2a)."

I'm not sure what is meant by "plurality and individuality", but they give
the example later on of "Bible (A.V.) Luke xv. 7   Ninety and nine just
persons.".

It means two persons is correct (it is marked), but not persons. And the individuality indicates it are distinct people (and not the referent included).
Nice definition, thanks for looking it up. I will use People, and for the treeview 'Grouped People'

Benny

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
_______________________________________________
Gramps-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: GUI changes

Tim Lyons
Administrator
In reply to this post by Benny Malengier
Seriously though, I agree with John that 'People' is not completely ideal.

I agree that one should choose the best words, irrespective of other usages, but out of interest: Family tree maker use people, and person when displaying one of them. Roots Magic uses People. PAF uses Individual when editing one of them, and also Individual when displaying a list of them, which seems wrong.

If you go with People, then the edit page has to be called Edit Person, which seems odd. (Both because Edit Person seems to be too formal, and because it is so obviously different from the plural People).

One possibility would be Individuals and Edit Individual.

As for Graph, I suggest Chart or Charts. Graph suggests points and lines, which is OK-ish for Graph view, but not right for the other views.

In general, I don't think that "something new users want to check out" or "users should notice it" are good criteria for a user interface. That approach leads to Sales Demo interfaces where the main point is that it looks good for the salesman (in the computer shop) to demonstrate the product, without regard to actual ongoing use (e.g. the latest versions of MS Word).

As for the different views in a Category, I suggest tabs along the top. If you don't want to loose the vertical space, then do we really need the other icons along the top? Family Trees is only used very very occasionally to change the tree (say at most once a session). Back, Forward, home and clipboard are quite useful, but not really all that essential there. If you want to look like Word etc., why are copy paste, cut, undo redo there (this is NOT an argument that they should be there). Reports and Tools just seem unnecessary there.

So, I would get rid of the toolbar (at least turn it off by default) and use the space for tabs. I wonder whether the selection of items on the toolbar needs to be re-thought anyway.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: GUI changes

Martin Steer-2
In reply to this post by Tim Lyons
On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 07:43:49AM -0700, Tim Lyons wrote:
>
>When they use English Americans mean American English (and they use the US
>term British English for English). Judging by the email address Martin is
>probably natively Australian English. I'm not sure how different that is
>from English.

Better.

>According to the OED: "An individual human being; a man, woman, or child. In
>ordinary usage, the unmarked plural is expressed by the word people; persons
>emphasizes the plurality and individuality of the referent (see people n.
>2a)."
>
>I'm not sure what is meant by "plurality and individuality", but they give
>the example later on of "Bible (A.V.) Luke xv. 7   Ninety and nine just
>persons.".

'Persons' is then some number of people, considered severally, whereas
'people' is some number of people, considered collectively. The former
fits with the police-speak 'several persons of a suspicious character',
so perhaps this fine distinction has been preserved amongst the legal
fraternity.

M.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
_______________________________________________
Gramps-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: GUI changes

Benny Malengier
In reply to this post by Tim Lyons


2012/9/18 Tim Lyons <[hidden email]>
Seriously though, I agree with John that 'People' is not completely ideal.

I agree that one should choose the best words, irrespective of other usages,
but out of interest: Family tree maker use people, and person when
displaying one of them. Roots Magic uses People. PAF uses Individual when
editing one of them, and also Individual when displaying a list of them,
which seems wrong.

If you go with People, then the edit page has to be called Edit Person,
which seems odd. (Both because Edit Person seems to be too formal, and
because it is so obviously different from the plural People).

One possibility would be Individuals and Edit Individual.

As for Graph, I suggest Chart or Charts. Graph suggests points and lines,
which is OK-ish for Graph view, but not right for the other views.

In general, I don't think that "something new users want to check out" or
"users should notice it" are good criteria for a user interface. That
approach leads to Sales Demo interfaces where the main point is that it
looks good for the salesman (in the computer shop) to demonstrate the
product, without regard to actual ongoing use (e.g. the latest versions of
MS Word).

As for the different views in a Category, I suggest tabs along the top. If
you don't want to loose the vertical space, then do we really need the other
icons along the top? Family Trees is only used very very occasionally to
change the tree (say at most once a session). Back, Forward, home and
clipboard are quite useful, but not really all that essential there. If you
want to look like Word etc., why are copy paste, cut, undo redo there (this
is NOT an argument that they should be there). Reports and Tools just seem
unnecessary there.

So, I would get rid of the toolbar (at least turn it off by default) and use
the space for tabs. I wonder whether the selection of items on the toolbar
needs to be re-thought anyway.

Common users use the mouse, so the toolbar off by default is not ok to me. You are free to switch it of in the View menu, so hiding it by default seems too much. I personally use back/forward a lot. Normally I add things in the relationship view,  then adding partner buttons in toolbar needed,...

Making sure features can be discovered in a user interface without throwing things in the face of the user and without cluttering things too much is the most difficult thing in design.
Obviously, as we all use Gramps, we want it as usefull as possible for our own use scenario.

Showing the tabs should be an easy hack as we now just hide them, question is to do that with an option (I would say yes, as I think I personally will not like it :-) , and what if option what the best default is.

The position of the tabs can be set easily:
http://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/3.3/GtkNotebook.html#gtk-notebook-set-tab-pos
Somebody should provide a patch to see how it looks.

Benny





--
View this message in context: http://gramps.1791082.n4.nabble.com/GUI-changes-tp4656529p4656559.html
Sent from the GRAMPS - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
_______________________________________________
Gramps-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
_______________________________________________
Gramps-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: GUI changes

Tim Lyons
Administrator
In reply to this post by Benny Malengier
Benny Malengier wrote
2012/9/18 Tim Lyons <[hidden email]>
> According to the OED: "An individual human being; a man, woman, or child.
> In
> ordinary usage, the unmarked plural is expressed by the word people;
> persons
> emphasizes the plurality and individuality of the referent (see people n.
> 2a)."
>
> I'm not sure what is meant by "plurality and individuality", but they give
> the example later on of "Bible (A.V.) Luke xv. 7   Ninety and nine just
> persons.".
>

It means two persons is correct (it is marked), but not persons. And the
individuality indicates it are distinct people (and not the referent
included).
I couldn't say
* I saw two persons walking down the street.
(Asterisk is a standard convention to mean this is not an English sentence)

In fact, the more I think about it the harder it is to think of modern usages where persons would be correct - about the only examples are legal courtroom settings, for example:
Your Honor, these four persons are innocent.

Although I would agree with:
"In American English, people is preferred over persons except in quotations, or in stock phrases like Missing Persons, third persons, etc.

Through usage people has come to have a more natural sound than persons which is why it is preferred. At one time a distinction was made that people is general and persons specific, for example: "Thousands of people attended the football game." "The committee was formed of five persons." Now that distinction, like many in the English language, is seen as pedantic."[1]

[1] http://forum.thefreedictionary.com/postst17854_six-people-vs--six-persons.aspx
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: GUI changes

Nick Hall-6
In reply to this post by Benny Malengier
On 18/09/12 17:14, Benny Malengier wrote:
> Showing the tabs should be an easy hack as we now just hide them,
> question is to do that with an option (I would say yes, as I think I
> personally will not like it :-) , and what if option what the best
> default is.

The notebook in the view manager only contains loaded views.  There is
now a single notebook and not a nested arrangement of categories and
views.  It would be possible to display the tabs, but this would show
all loaded views and not allow the user to open a new view.

One possibility would be to use tabs to allow the user to re-arrange and
close views.  I never got around to exploring this fully.

Nick.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
_______________________________________________
Gramps-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: GUI changes

Tim Lyons
Administrator
In reply to this post by Benny Malengier
Benny Malengier wrote
Common users use the mouse, so the toolbar off by default is not ok to me.
You are free to switch it of in the View menu, so hiding it by default
seems too much. I personally use back/forward a lot. Normally I add things
in the relationship view,  then adding partner buttons in toolbar needed,...
Yes, I had only been looking at the Ancestry category, where there are no buttons like Add, Edit, Remove.

I suppose the difficulty is that the buttons in the toolbar are doing quite different things: the left hand set mainly repeat top level menu items, and these seemed the most redundant to me. The middle set are shortcuts for editing the currently selected item, while the right hand set are to select views.

If you want to improve the interface then you probably have to consider radical changes, rather than rejecting things that do not preserve the way you do things now.

I suggest changing the category names in the category sidebar to dropdown menus with the views in them. This reflects that the views are actually sub-divisions of the categories. It would mean that you could see which view was selected in any particular category before clicking on it, and if that was not the view you wanted, you could click on the drop down indicator and select the one you wanted. So the category would appear as 'People' or 'People tree', 'Places' or 'Places tree', 'Pedigree chart' or Graph chart' or 'Fan chart'.

So each category would be something like the 'Family Trees' button on the main toolbar. Clicking on the current name ('People tree') would switch to that category with that view. Clicking on the down diamond would bring up a drop down menu to select the view you wanted.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: GUI changes

Benny Malengier


2012/9/18 Tim Lyons <[hidden email]>
Benny Malengier wrote
> Common users use the mouse, so the toolbar off by default is not ok to me.
> You are free to switch it of in the View menu, so hiding it by default
> seems too much. I personally use back/forward a lot. Normally I add things
> in the relationship view,  then adding partner buttons in toolbar
> needed,...

Yes, I had only been looking at the Ancestry category, where there are no
buttons like Add, Edit, Remove.

I suppose the difficulty is that the buttons in the toolbar are doing quite
different things: the left hand set mainly repeat top level menu items, and
these seemed the most redundant to me. The middle set are shortcuts for
editing the currently selected item, while the right hand set are to select
views.

If you want to improve the interface then you probably have to consider
radical changes, rather than rejecting things that do not preserve the way
you do things now.

I suggest changing the category names in the category sidebar to dropdown
menus with the views in them. This reflects that the views are actually
sub-divisions of the categories. It would mean that you could see which view
was selected in any particular category before clicking on it, and if that
was not the view you wanted, you could click on the drop down indicator and
select the one you wanted. So the category would appear as 'People' or
'People tree', 'Places' or 'Places tree', 'Pedigree chart' or Graph chart'
or 'Fan chart'.

So each category would be something like the 'Family Trees' button on the
main toolbar. Clicking on the current name ('People tree') would switch to
that category with that view. Clicking on the down diamond would bring up a
drop down menu to select the view you wanted.

The category view is a plugin, so we can do this, without throwing away the old one.
It would be interesting to implement this. We can then have the category view have a setting that is used by the viewmanager to show the view switching in the toolbar or not.

Benny


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
_______________________________________________
Gramps-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: GUI changes

Nick Hall-6
In reply to this post by Tim Lyons
On 18/09/12 22:40, Tim Lyons wrote:
> If you want to improve the interface then you probably have to consider
> radical changes, rather than rejecting things that do not preserve the way
> you do things now.

There have been discussions about re-designing the Gramps interface.

1644: need to brainstorm alternatives to the current sidebar/navbar

http://www.gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=1644

3630: Make Clipboard and Editors working into SidebarView

http://www.gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=3630

This may have been before you started to contribute.  Do you have any ideas?


>
> I suggest changing the category names in the category sidebar to dropdown
> menus with the views in them. This reflects that the views are actually
> sub-divisions of the categories. It would mean that you could see which view
> was selected in any particular category before clicking on it, and if that
> was not the view you wanted, you could click on the drop down indicator and
> select the one you wanted. So the category would appear as 'People' or
> 'People tree', 'Places' or 'Places tree', 'Pedigree chart' or Graph chart'
> or 'Fan chart'.
>
> So each category would be something like the 'Family Trees' button on the
> main toolbar. Clicking on the current name ('People tree') would switch to
> that category with that view. Clicking on the down diamond would bring up a
> drop down menu to select the view you wanted.
>
>
>

You can actually write your own sidebar plugins.  I created a couple of
examples, but the idea never took off.

Let me know if you are interested and I'll point you in the right direction.

There are probably some enhancements that need to be made.  At the
moment I think that all sidebar plugins are active at the same time, so
you may have to remove the category sidebar plugin to remove the toolbar
view buttons.

Nick.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
_______________________________________________
Gramps-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: GUI changes

Nick Hall-6
In reply to this post by Benny Malengier
I agree.  Lineage is good.

The category contains views that describe the relationships between
people and families.

Relationships would also be quite good.  In fact, the Relationship View
fits well within this category.

Perhaps the Geography Views should reside within the Places category.  
They are just a graphical way of looking at Places.  I would also like
to see the Geography Views use globe type icons instead of the current
icons which are not very good.

Nick.


On 20/09/12 14:22, jerome wrote:

>       > 2. "Ancestry" was not right, but I don't think that "Graph" is
>        either for this category.
>
>
> It has been translated (3.4.x) by something like 'lineage' into french!!!
> By looking at lines (up and down), I thought that it sounded more accessible... True, spouses are not a part of "filiation" lineages and 'graph' is more accurate for this, but I agree that "Ancestry" was too restrictive.
>
>
> --- En date de : Mar 18.9.12, Nick Hall <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>
> De: Nick Hall <[hidden email]>
> Objet: Re: [Gramps-devel] GUI changes
> À: [hidden email]
> Date: Mardi 18 septembre 2012, 14h57
>
>
>    
>
>      
>    
>    
>      Benny,
>
>        
>
>        I like these changes.  We need to think more about smaller screen
>        sizes.
>
>        
>
>        1. I started to do this by removing the word "gramplet" from the
>        title of gramplets.  I think we should go even further and remove
>        the word "report" from reports, and "graph" from graphs, "tool"
>        from tools etc...
>
>        
>
>        2. "Ancestry" was not right, but I don't think that "Graph" is
>        either for this category.
>
>        
>
>        3. I have never liked the idea of having icons to switch view in
>        the toolbar.  I said so at the time, but obviously nobody else
>        agreed with me.
>
>        
>
>        Nick.
>
>        
>
>        
>
>        On 18/09/12 09:16, Benny Malengier wrote:
>
>      
>      I did some GUI changes in trunk after trying Gramps on
>        a smaller monitor with text in the toolbar.
>
>        
>
>        1. Shorter texts for views. So instead of Person View, now
>        Persons, ...
>
>        2. Category Ancestry now is named 'Graphs', so as to be more
>        correct it is not only ancestry
>
>        3. In a toolbar, the most used should be at the front, as the back
>        might not fit on the screen. So I changed the order, and reduced
>        the number of seperators
>
>         a) fam tree manager
>
>         b) navigation (back forward home)
>
>         separator
>
>         c) basic edit (like add delete person)
>
>         d) tag
>
>         e) clipboard
>
>         separator
>
>         f) Config view
>
>         g) switch views
>
>        separator
>
>         h) reports and tools dialog
>
>        
>
>        This order corresponds to the order in the menu, so is more
>        consistent in my opinion
>
>        4. Configure View... -> Configure... (it is in the View menu)
>
>        
>
>        Try it before shooting it down :-)
>
>        
>
>        Benny
>
>        
>
>        
>
>        
>        
>
>        ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>        
>
>        
>        
>
>        _______________________________________________
> Gramps-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
>
>      
>      
>
>    
>
>
> -----La pièce jointe associée suit-----
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> -----La pièce jointe associée suit-----
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
>
>
>


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Everyone hates slow websites. So do we.
Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics
Download AppDynamics Lite for free today:
http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;258768047;13503038;j?
http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html
_______________________________________________
Gramps-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
12
Loading...