Geneanet > Gramps importing woes

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Geneanet > Gramps importing woes

Super0072
Greetings all,

Seems I have to be here to find the great minds :)
 
Due to mobility, I work at my tree with Geneanet. There I have >1000 persons in my tree

I use the 4.2.1 version of Gramps is used, and the online version of geneanet with their own export function.

At home I want to use Gramps, especially for the reporting. So I export my tree in Geneanet, and try to import it.

    from gedcom (ASCII and UTF8): around 580 errors, mainly pointing to a tag that discribes witnesses at baptisms/mariages/... (the ASSO tag, should be part of GEDCOM Standard Draft 5.5.1). If I could pass the import without error, then I can start to analyse data loss or mutilation, but it seems some things I mention below at the geneweb-import return.

    from geneweb: when I import this, my data gets mutilated. All the location are called (unknown), and events that took place in different places are put together in such an unknown place. A marriage date was suddenly a baptism date, a few blank persons were made with a year as name. Probably because Geneanet updated it's geneweb standard.

I tried to install Geneweb itself and export files from the geneweb 7-version and earlier, to geneweb or gedcom, but no joy.

Example of piece of gedcom by geneanet:


@I57@ INDI
1 NAME Maria Elisabetha
1 SEX F
1 BAPM
2 DATE 01 MAR 1731
2 PLAC G
2 ASSO @I426@
3 TYPE INDI
3 RELA witness
2 ASSO @I427@
3 TYPE INDI
3 RELA witness
1 DEAT
2 DATE 12 MAY 1799
2 PLAC G
1 FAMC @F33@

Gramps seems to error on this part: 3 TYPE INDI 3 RELA witness

Gedcom header:

0 HEAD
1 SOUR GeneWeb
2 VERS 7.00 - exp
2 NAME gwb2ged
2 CORP INRIA
3 ADDR http://www.geneweb.org 
2 DATA x.gwb
1 DATE 22 DEC 2015
2 TIME 15:57:00
1 FILE base.ged.tmp
1 GEDC
2 VERS 5.5
2 FORM LINEAGE-LINKED
1 CHAR ASCII

So, I know my importing woes are mainly due to Geneanet, but isn't it possible to let Gramps import that Gedcom standard draft without errors or data loss? I'd like to avoid entering +1000 persons by hand

Greetings
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Re: Geneanet > Gramps importing woes

enno
Hello Davy,

> Due to mobility, I work at my tree with Geneanet. There I have >1000 persons
> in my tree
>
> I use the 4.2.1 version of Gramps is used, and the online version of
> geneanet with their own export function.
>
> At home I want to use Gramps, especially for the reporting. So I export my
> tree in Geneanet, and try to import it.
>
>      *from gedcom* (ASCII and UTF8): around 580 errors, mainly pointing to a
> tag that discribes witnesses at baptisms/mariages/... (the ASSO tag, should
> be part of GEDCOM Standard Draft 5.5.1). If I could pass the import without
> error, then I can start to analyse data loss or mutilation, but it seems
> some things I mention below at the geneweb-import return.
Although the ASSO tag is defined in GEDCOM 5.5.1, it can not be used to
attach witnesses to an event like GeneWeb does. In GEDCOM 5.5.1, the
ASSO tag can only be used one level below the INDI tag, so that you can
create associations between persons, not between persons and events.

I know that this sounds weird, because the way the tag is used in
GeneWeb is much more powerful. This is the way it is in GEDCOM though,
so even if Gramps would be modified to understand the import side, we
can not legally export it and still claim that we support GEDCOM 5.5(.1).

regards,

Enno


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Re: Geneanet > Gramps importing woes

Super0072

Thanks for the info, Enno. I partially understand it.

Am I right to assume I will have to edit the gedcom somehow so that it follows the Gedcom standard?

If so, what changes should be done? Rename the tag? Give it another trailing number?

Only loosing the data in the ASSO tag would be a sad but acceptable strategy.

I am new to mailing lists and typing on my phone so if I breached etiquette, my apologies.

Greetings,
Dave

Op 13 jan. 2016 22:20 schreef "enno [via GRAMPS]" <[hidden email]>:
Hello Davy,

> Due to mobility, I work at my tree with Geneanet. There I have >1000 persons
> in my tree
>
> I use the 4.2.1 version of Gramps is used, and the online version of
> geneanet with their own export function.
>
> At home I want to use Gramps, especially for the reporting. So I export my
> tree in Geneanet, and try to import it.
>
>      *from gedcom* (ASCII and UTF8): around 580 errors, mainly pointing to a
> tag that discribes witnesses at baptisms/mariages/... (the ASSO tag, should
> be part of GEDCOM Standard Draft 5.5.1). If I could pass the import without
> error, then I can start to analyse data loss or mutilation, but it seems
> some things I mention below at the geneweb-import return.
Although the ASSO tag is defined in GEDCOM 5.5.1, it can not be used to
attach witnesses to an event like GeneWeb does. In GEDCOM 5.5.1, the
ASSO tag can only be used one level below the INDI tag, so that you can
create associations between persons, not between persons and events.

I know that this sounds weird, because the way the tag is used in
GeneWeb is much more powerful. This is the way it is in GEDCOM though,
so even if Gramps would be modified to understand the import side, we
can not legally export it and still claim that we support GEDCOM 5.5(.1).

regards,

Enno


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Re: Geneanet > Gramps importing woes

enno
Hello Dave,
> Am I right to assume I will have to edit the gedcom somehow so that it
> follows the Gedcom standard?
>
> If so, what changes should be done? Rename the tag? Give it another
> trailing number?
>
> Only loosing the data in the ASSO tag would be a sad but acceptable
> strategy.
>
You don't need to rename, but it must have another leading number, so
that it sits under the person level. That means that you must translate

2 ASSO @I426@
3 TYPE INDI
3 RELA witness

to

1 ASSO @I426@
2 RELA getuige

I use the Dutch word in the RELA line, assuming that you are in
Flanders. Gramps does not translate the text, so you should use the word
that you want to see on screen.

On the long term, you may be better off if we can add better support for
the GeneWeb format, but I don't know many people that are interested in
that.

regards,

Enno


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Re: Geneanet > Gramps importing woes

manzi.sam
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Re: Geneanet > Gramps importing woes

Super0072

Thanks both of you. For now I am goung to test the manual changing. After some sleep that is :)

I will be reading that feature request

Op 13 jan. 2016 23:23 schreef "manzi.sam [via GRAMPS]" <[hidden email]>:
Enough that a number of feature request have been opened:

3094: Support "up to date" GeneWeb specification (.gw) on import and export
https://gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=3094

On 14 January 2016 at 09:15, Enno Borgsteede <[hidden email]> wrote:

On the long term, you may be better off if we can add better support for
the GeneWeb format, but I don't know many people that are interested in
that.



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Re: Geneanet > Gramps importing woes

jerome
In reply to this post by Super0072
Note, it seems that 'Gedcom extension' addon[1] has been designed for matching such customization. The first extension was designed for geneanet!

[1] https://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=GEDCOM_Extensions


--------------------------------------------
En date de : Mer 13.1.16, Super0072 <[hidden email]> a écrit :

 Objet: Re: [Gramps-users] Geneanet > Gramps importing woes
 À: [hidden email]
 Date: Mercredi 13 janvier 2016, 22h18
 
 Thanks for
 the info, Enno. I partially understand it.
 Am I right to assume I will have to edit the
 gedcom somehow so that it follows the Gedcom standard?
 If so, what changes should be done? Rename the
 tag? Give it another trailing number?
 Only loosing the data in the ASSO tag would be
 a sad but acceptable strategy.
 I am new to mailing lists and typing on my
 phone so if I breached etiquette, my apologies.
 Greetings,
 
 Dave
 Op 13 jan. 2016 22:20
 schreef "enno [via GRAMPS]" <[hidden email]>:
 
 
  Hello Davy,
 
 > Due to mobility, I work at my tree with
 Geneanet. There I have >1000 persons
 
 > in my tree
 
 >
 
 > I use the 4.2.1 version of Gramps is
 used, and the online version of
 
 > geneanet with their own export
 function.
 
 >
 
 > At home I want to use Gramps,
 especially for the reporting. So I export my
 
 > tree in Geneanet, and try to import
 it.
 
 >
 
 >      *from gedcom* (ASCII and
 UTF8): around 580 errors, mainly pointing to a
 
 > tag that discribes witnesses at
 baptisms/mariages/... (the ASSO tag, should
 
 > be part of GEDCOM Standard Draft
 5.5.1). If I could pass the import without
 
 > error, then I can start to analyse
 data loss or mutilation, but it seems
 
 > some things I mention below at the
 geneweb-import return.
 Although the ASSO tag is defined in GEDCOM 5.5.1, it
 can not be used to
 attach witnesses to an event like GeneWeb does. In
 GEDCOM 5.5.1, the
 
 ASSO tag can only be used one level below
 the INDI tag, so that you can
 
 create associations between persons, not
 between persons and events.
 
 
 I know that this sounds
 weird, because the way the tag is used in
 
 GeneWeb is much more powerful. This is the
 way it is in GEDCOM though,
 
 so even if Gramps would be modified to
 understand the import side, we
 
 can not legally export it and still claim
 that we support GEDCOM 5.5(.1).
 
 
 regards,
 
 
 Enno
 
 
 
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Re: Geneanet > Gramps importing woes

jerome
In reply to this post by Super0072
For info, gwplus (GeneWeb 7) was (and is still) not available when we released gramps 4.2.0.
So, a basic gwplus support[2]  should be available by removing two lines on code!

Still TODO:

* check name handling, self.ikeys(), self.current_family, self.current_event, etc ...
* how to handle custom event types from .gw file (no definition)
* need a proper way for comparing events AND EvenRef role (eg, witness)

Also, I do not understand where geneanet is going[3].

[2] https://gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=8548
[3] https://github.com/geneanet/geneweb/releases


--------------------------------------------
En date de : Mer 13.1.16, Super0072 <[hidden email]> a écrit :

 Objet: Re: [Gramps-users] Geneanet > Gramps importing woes
 À: [hidden email]
 Date: Mercredi 13 janvier 2016, 23h10
 
 Thanks both
 of you. For now I am goung to test the manual changing.
 After some sleep that is :)
 I will be reading that feature request
 Op 13 jan. 2016 23:23
 schreef "manzi.sam [via GRAMPS]" <[hidden email]>:
 
 
  Enough that a number of feature request have
 been opened:
 
 3094: Support
 "up to date" GeneWeb specification (.gw) on import
 and export
 https://gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=3094
 
 On 14
 January 2016 at 09:15, Enno Borgsteede <[hidden
 email]> wrote:
 
 
 On the long term, you may be better off if we can add better
 support for
 
 the GeneWeb format, but I don't know many people that
 are interested in
 
 that.
 
 
 
 
 
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 your message will be added to the discussion below:
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 click here.
 
  NAML
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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 Geneanet > Gramps importing woes
 
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 - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
 
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Re: Geneanet > Gramps importing woes

enno
In reply to this post by jerome
Hi Jerome,
> Note, it seems that 'Gedcom extension' addon[1] has been designed for matching such customization. The first extension was designed for geneanet!
>
> [1] https://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=GEDCOM_Extensions
Nice, I didn't know that.

Concerning the warning, that this is one-way, I wonder whether we would
need a separate importer or not. Users who are new to Gramps assume that
the standard importer can handle their GEDCOM, and that is already true
in the sense that we already have some special code for specific
programs in the standard importer. Should we continue doing that?

For export, it makes sense to have a plug-in, because then the user
should be aware of the type of export, i.e. pure GEDCOM, or not. On
import, that is mostly not the case.

regards,

Enno


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Re: Geneanet > Gramps importing woes

Eric Doutreleau
Hi Jerome Enno

I m currently working on improving this extension to cope with witness
for events other than marriage.
for testing it can be found
http://www.doutreleau.fr/GedcomExtensions.zip

you can see an exemple of result after importation here

http://gw.geneanet.org/grocanar?lang=fr&p=pierre+modeste&n=doutreleau


Le 14/01/2016 14:43, Enno Borgsteede a écrit :

> Hi Jerome,
>> Note, it seems that 'Gedcom extension' addon[1] has been designed for matching such customization. The first extension was designed for geneanet!
>>
>> [1] https://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=GEDCOM_Extensions
> Nice, I didn't know that.
>
> Concerning the warning, that this is one-way, I wonder whether we would
> need a separate importer or not. Users who are new to Gramps assume that
> the standard importer can handle their GEDCOM, and that is already true
> in the sense that we already have some special code for specific
> programs in the standard importer. Should we continue doing that?
>
> For export, it makes sense to have a plug-in, because then the user
> should be aware of the type of export, i.e. pure GEDCOM, or not. On
> import, that is mostly not the case.
>
> regards,
>
> Enno
>
>
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> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users



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Re: Geneanet > Gramps importing woes

enno
In reply to this post by jerome
Hello Jerome,
> Also, I do not understand where geneanet is going[3].
>
> [2] https://gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=8548
> [3] https://github.com/geneanet/geneweb/releases
Neither do I. There are a couple of things that I really like about the
site, things that make them way better and friendlier than the far too
commercial My Heritage, but in some respects they are quite backwards too.

One of those aspects is source handling. As far as I can see, they still
think of sources as a single line, which works nice if you think no
further than a formatted citation text, but is no match for sources on
most other sites, like Ancestry and FamilySearch, and the two layers in
GEDCOM like we have in Gramps.

For this reason, even if we allow import of persons associated with
events, and add Eric's code to the GED2 exporter, sending data back and
forth between Geneanet and Gramps is not a reasonable option for me. I
only use Geneanet for publishing now.

regards,

Enno




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Re: Geneanet > Gramps importing woes

Alain AUPEIX
Le 16/01/2016 16:57, Enno Borgsteede a écrit :
sending data back and 
forth between Geneanet and Gramps is not a reasonable option for me. I 
only use Geneanet for publishing now.
I also always do like that, just use geneanet for publishing, but it's also necessary to clean the export, else geneanet, if not loosing datas, put them as notes. Which is particulary bad (for locations for exemple) ...

A+
--

Alain Aupeix
http://jujuland.pagesperso-orange.fr/
http://pissobi-lacassagne.pagesperso-orange.fr/

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Re: Geneanet > Gramps importing woes

Tim Lyons
Administrator
In reply to this post by jerome
jerome wrote
Note, it seems that 'Gedcom extension' addon[1] has been designed for matching such customization. The first extension was designed for geneanet!

[1] https://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=GEDCOM_Extensions

Unfortunately, when Doug refactored GEDCOM export so as to support extension addons, he did not do a similar refactoring for import.

Doug, is there any chance you could do the refactoring for imports as well?

If the refactoring were done, then writing an extension for the geneanet use of ASSO should be a relatively simple thing to do.

Note that:
(1) simply renumbering the ASSO tag will allow import, but I think it will not make the necessary connections in the Gramps data.

(2) To trigger the use of the extension for importing Geneanet files, it would be necessary to change the extension for the Geneanet file from ged to something else - say gen for example. I don't think this would be too much of an imposition though.

(3) Gramps currently detects the GEDCOM variant by examining the relevant tag in the GEDCOM file (I think this is the 1 SOUR tag in the header). This does currently do some special processing for some inputs, but it is probably better for the future to use the extension technique instead, even though this would involve changing the file extension.

Regards,
Tim.