Generation identifier

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Generation identifier

KimFella
Is there a field/attribute that I can apply to each person that identifies
what generation that person is? Relative to the 'home' person (see my
previous post of a few minutes ago).

So I decide that Agnes Emma (Butler) Leacock is generation one (the first to
settle in Canada). Her husband, Walter Peter Leacock would also be
generation one. My grandmother would then be of generation two, along with
her many brothers and sisters. (Her husband would probably be of generation
three in a separate (Burrowes) line.) My mother would be of generation
three, and me generation four ...etc, etc, etc on down to my great
grandchildren being of generation seven.

I would like to display AEB Leacock as
"Leacock, Agnes Emma (Butler)
(1)
"/<---upshift that last bit/.
        {Harrumph! that was all supposed to be one line. Making the (1) a
header 6 DID make it smaller, but it also put it on its own line. Just think
of it as
         *"Leacock, Agnes Emma (Butler)(1)"* with the (1) small and
upshifted.}

Initially, having to manually key that in would be fine. Possibly having the
program assign the generation id automatically would be fine.  I could
probably use Tags for this, although right now my tags editor just brings up
a blank list with no option to actually add to it.

And related to this, is there a convention on how to display the generations
going upstream through the ancestors? Would AEB Leacock's parents be
generation '-1' and her grandparents be '-2'?. I only have 2 ancestor
generations for Walter, but for Agnes I have 3 in her Butler line and 2 in
her mother's (Linton) line.



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Re: Generation identifier

Dave Scheipers
I am always hesitant to set generational identifiers in a person's
record. Any identifier is only relevant from one starting person (and
their siblings).

Many of the reports will automatically set the generations based upon
who you set the report for. The Ahnentafel and other ancestor reports
will count generations going out from the base person. Descendant
reports will count generations coming forward. All automatically. You
can experiment with the reports. I suggest printing to PDF or
OpenDocument text so you are not wasting paper or ink.

With those caveats, you could use the person's Attribute to put the
generation information. If the pre-set attribute types are not to your
liking, you can create your own.  You can also use the Set Attribute
tool to batch set an attribute. You can use filters to select
individuals that get the Generation level based upon a filter
selecting parents of people with the attribute for the previous
generation. Once all the parents in line have been set, you can set
the missed siblings using filters coming back down through the
generations.

And if after doing all that you want to delete that attribute, you can
use the same Set Attribute to delete. Setting the Attribute name with
no value deletes all instances of the attribute regardless of the
value of the attribute.

HTH Dave

On Sat, May 4, 2019 at 11:28 AM KimFella <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Is there a field/attribute that I can apply to each person that identifies
> what generation that person is? Relative to the 'home' person (see my
> previous post of a few minutes ago).
>
> So I decide that Agnes Emma (Butler) Leacock is generation one (the first to
> settle in Canada). Her husband, Walter Peter Leacock would also be
> generation one. My grandmother would then be of generation two, along with
> her many brothers and sisters. (Her husband would probably be of generation
> three in a separate (Burrowes) line.) My mother would be of generation
> three, and me generation four ...etc, etc, etc on down to my great
> grandchildren being of generation seven.
>
> I would like to display AEB Leacock as
> "Leacock, Agnes Emma (Butler)
> (1)
> "/<---upshift that last bit/.
>         {Harrumph! that was all supposed to be one line. Making the (1) a
> header 6 DID make it smaller, but it also put it on its own line. Just think
> of it as
>          *"Leacock, Agnes Emma (Butler)(1)"* with the (1) small and
> upshifted.}
>
> Initially, having to manually key that in would be fine. Possibly having the
> program assign the generation id automatically would be fine.  I could
> probably use Tags for this, although right now my tags editor just brings up
> a blank list with no option to actually add to it.
>
> And related to this, is there a convention on how to display the generations
> going upstream through the ancestors? Would AEB Leacock's parents be
> generation '-1' and her grandparents be '-2'?. I only have 2 ancestor
> generations for Walter, but for Agnes I have 3 in her Butler line and 2 in
> her mother's (Linton) line.
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://gramps.1791082.n4.nabble.com/GRAMPS-User-f1807095.html
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
> https://gramps-project.org


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Re: Generation identifier

StoltHD
In reply to this post by KimFella

You could use the "Attributes" to add a "Generation" field...

If using tags, you need to create the tags in the tag manager first, then add them to the entities where you want them, at least that's the only way I have been able to use tags...

maybe someone have another way to add tags directly to an entity...


lør. 4. mai 2019 kl. 17:28 skrev KimFella <[hidden email]>:
Is there a field/attribute that I can apply to each person that identifies
what generation that person is? Relative to the 'home' person (see my
previous post of a few minutes ago).

So I decide that Agnes Emma (Butler) Leacock is generation one (the first to
settle in Canada). Her husband, Walter Peter Leacock would also be
generation one. My grandmother would then be of generation two, along with
her many brothers and sisters. (Her husband would probably be of generation
three in a separate (Burrowes) line.) My mother would be of generation
three, and me generation four ...etc, etc, etc on down to my great
grandchildren being of generation seven.

I would like to display AEB Leacock as
"Leacock, Agnes Emma (Butler)
(1)
"/<---upshift that last bit/.
        {Harrumph! that was all supposed to be one line. Making the (1) a
header 6 DID make it smaller, but it also put it on its own line. Just think
of it as
         *"Leacock, Agnes Emma (Butler)(1)"* with the (1) small and
upshifted.}

Initially, having to manually key that in would be fine. Possibly having the
program assign the generation id automatically would be fine.  I could
probably use Tags for this, although right now my tags editor just brings up
a blank list with no option to actually add to it.

And related to this, is there a convention on how to display the generations
going upstream through the ancestors? Would AEB Leacock's parents be
generation '-1' and her grandparents be '-2'?. I only have 2 ancestor
generations for Walter, but for Agnes I have 3 in her Butler line and 2 in
her mother's (Linton) line.



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Re: Generation identifier

GRAMPS - User mailing list
In reply to this post by KimFella
Definitely do NOT add the generational offset as an attribute manually.  Let Gramps manage this for you.

Deep Connections and many of the reports will automatically display the generational offset.

But the main reason not hard-code the offset is that the final project is rarely delivered with the conceptual perspective.  For instance, doing 1 book for your children (based on you & your spouse) has an audience of only you and your direct descendants. But, if you generate 4 books, each one on focused on the grand-parents with their sibs; you reel in all the aunts, uncles, cousins & their blended families. Chances are that you'll get a lot more feedback.

Likewise, perspective is often shifted to a historically more-interesting progenitor. So the generations might be more reasonably counted from immigration, military serves or achieving prominence. This also makes an impressive generational offset seem historic rather than merely out-of-date.

-Brian

On Sat, May 4, 2019 at 10:29, KimFella
Is there a field/attribute that I can apply to each person that identifies
what generation that person is? Relative to the 'home' person (see my
previous post of a few minutes ago).

So I decide that Agnes Emma (Butler) Leacock is generation one (the first to
settle in Canada). Her husband, Walter Peter Leacock would also be
generation one. My grandmother would then be of generation two, along with
her many brothers and sisters. (Her husband would probably be of generation
three in a separate (Burrowes) line.) My mother would be of generation
three, and me generation four ...etc, etc, etc on down to my great
grandchildren being of generation seven.

I would like to display AEB Leacock as
"Leacock, Agnes Emma (Butler)
(1)
"/<---upshift that last bit/.
        {Harrumph! that was all supposed to be one line. Making the (1) a
header 6 DID make it smaller, but it also put it on its own line. Just think
of it as
        *"Leacock, Agnes Emma (Butler)(1)"* with the (1) small and
upshifted.}

Initially, having to manually key that in would be fine. Possibly having the
program assign the generation id automatically would be fine.  I could
probably use Tags for this, although right now my tags editor just brings up
a blank list with no option to actually add to it.

And related to this, is there a convention on how to display the generations
going upstream through the ancestors? Would AEB Leacock's parents be
generation '-1' and her grandparents be '-2'?. I only have 2 ancestor
generations for Walter, but for Agnes I have 3 in her Butler line and 2 in
her mother's (Linton) line.
--



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Re: Generation identifier

StoltHD
Brian,

It should not be any problem using a custom Attribute field to manually add a "Generation TAG", nothing in Gramps use custom attributes, and if I don't remember wrong, you have to manually add it to reports to display/write them in the report... So it will be of no problems what so ever to use custom attributes to help remember the generations from a given person as long as you remember from who you started, and actually you can have multiple "Generations fields pair" one for each branch of a persons family... i.e. one person can be a generation 3 in the mothers branch from a given person, but generation 4 or 5 in the fathers branch from another given person living in the same era..

It will of course be a lot to organize and keep control over, but it shouldn't affect the way Gramps works in any way that I can see, it will be the same as adding an Attribute of a persons height, their hair color or the eye color they have... its just "some information" in a data pair...

j

lør. 4. mai 2019 kl. 19:03 skrev Emyoulation--- via Gramps-users <[hidden email]>:
Definitely do NOT add the generational offset as an attribute manually.  Let Gramps manage this for you.

Deep Connections and many of the reports will automatically display the generational offset.

But the main reason not hard-code the offset is that the final project is rarely delivered with the conceptual perspective.  For instance, doing 1 book for your children (based on you & your spouse) has an audience of only you and your direct descendants. But, if you generate 4 books, each one on focused on the grand-parents with their sibs; you reel in all the aunts, uncles, cousins & their blended families. Chances are that you'll get a lot more feedback.

Likewise, perspective is often shifted to a historically more-interesting progenitor. So the generations might be more reasonably counted from immigration, military serves or achieving prominence. This also makes an impressive generational offset seem historic rather than merely out-of-date.

-Brian

On Sat, May 4, 2019 at 10:29, KimFella
Is there a field/attribute that I can apply to each person that identifies
what generation that person is? Relative to the 'home' person (see my
previous post of a few minutes ago).

So I decide that Agnes Emma (Butler) Leacock is generation one (the first to
settle in Canada). Her husband, Walter Peter Leacock would also be
generation one. My grandmother would then be of generation two, along with
her many brothers and sisters. (Her husband would probably be of generation
three in a separate (Burrowes) line.) My mother would be of generation
three, and me generation four ...etc, etc, etc on down to my great
grandchildren being of generation seven.

I would like to display AEB Leacock as
"Leacock, Agnes Emma (Butler)
(1)
"/<---upshift that last bit/.
        {Harrumph! that was all supposed to be one line. Making the (1) a
header 6 DID make it smaller, but it also put it on its own line. Just think
of it as
        *"Leacock, Agnes Emma (Butler)(1)"* with the (1) small and
upshifted.}

Initially, having to manually key that in would be fine. Possibly having the
program assign the generation id automatically would be fine.  I could
probably use Tags for this, although right now my tags editor just brings up
a blank list with no option to actually add to it.

And related to this, is there a convention on how to display the generations
going upstream through the ancestors? Would AEB Leacock's parents be
generation '-1' and her grandparents be '-2'?. I only have 2 ancestor
generations for Walter, but for Agnes I have 3 in her Butler line and 2 in
her mother's (Linton) line.
--

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Re: Generation identifier

Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI

Of course there may be the obvious complication of an ancestor being in several branches of your tree, at different generational distances;

Personnally I have an individual who is both my 22nd and 24th great grand father...
 
Cheers,
 
Ron.
--
                  There never was a good war or a bad peace.
                                              -- B. Franklin
                                   
                   -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org --
 


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Re: Generation identifier

Harvey Nimmo
...and one of your 38th great-grandfathers (or so) is most likely
Charlemagne, like mine.....

Cheers
Harvey


On Sat, 2019-05-04 at 16:56 -0400, Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI wrote:

> Of course there may be the obvious complication of an ancestor being
> in several branches of your tree, at different generational
> distances;
>
> Personnally I have an individual who is both my 22nd and 24th great
> grand father...
>  
> Cheers,
>  
> Ron.


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Re: Generation identifier

GRAMPS - User mailing list
In reply to this post by StoltHD
One major difference is that attributes like hair & eye color don't change and height can be tied to a date. The generations and relationships attribute need a point of origin to have any meaning. 

It makes NO sense to manually calculate & enter such an attribute. It is too prone to human error and omission. 

If you're going to have to write a custom report to give meaning to an explicitly stored generational data anyway, you might as well have it calculate and insert that info.

-Brian

On Sat, May 4, 2019 at 15:39, StoltHD
Brian, 

It should not be any problem using a custom Attribute field to manually add a "Generation TAG", nothing in Gramps use custom attributes, and if I don't remember wrong, you have to manually add it to reports to display/write them in the report... So it will be of no problems what so ever to use custom attributes to help remember the generations from a given person as long as you remember from who you started, and actually you can have multiple "Generations fields pair" one for each branch of a persons family... i.e. one person can be a generation 3 in the mothers branch from a given person, but generation 4 or 5 in the fathers branch from another given person living in the same era..

It will of course be a lot to organize and keep control over, but it shouldn't affect the way Gramps works in any way that I can see, it will be the same as adding an Attribute of a persons height, their hair color or the eye color they have... its just "some information" in a data pair...

j


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Re: Generation identifier

victorengel
In reply to this post by Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI
I've been working on a genealogy-related app, and one of its features shows a list of all ancestors, with a graphical display where you can see at a glance what the relationship is. I need only go to my 3rd-great grandparents generation before there are people in multiple branches. If I look as far as my 6th-great grandparents' generation, there is someone who is in 4 different branches. But I have to go to 6th/7th-great grandparents' generation before I see someone who is in more than one generation. I've not found anyone in 3 different generations or in two generations separated by more than one generation. However, there are multiple people with several ways to get to each of two different generations. Fun.

I don't know about 20+ generations back. My current setting goes back only 10 generations.

Victor

On Sat, May 4, 2019 at 3:56 PM Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI <[hidden email]> wrote:

Of course there may be the obvious complication of an ancestor being in several branches of your tree, at different generational distances;

Personnally I have an individual who is both my 22nd and 24th great grand father...

Cheers,

Ron.
--
                  There never was a good war or a bad peace.
                                              -- B. Franklin

                   -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org --



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Re: Generation identifier

victorengel
In reply to this post by GRAMPS - User mailing list
Hair color certainly changes. Eye color can change due to injury, but that is rare.

On Sat, May 4, 2019 at 5:19 PM Emyoulation--- via Gramps-users <[hidden email]> wrote:
One major difference is that attributes like hair & eye color don't change and height can be tied to a date. The generations and relationships attribute need a point of origin to have any meaning. 

It makes NO sense to manually calculate & enter such an attribute. It is too prone to human error and omission. 

If you're going to have to write a custom report to give meaning to an explicitly stored generational data anyway, you might as well have it calculate and insert that info.

-Brian

On Sat, May 4, 2019 at 15:39, StoltHD
Brian, 

It should not be any problem using a custom Attribute field to manually add a "Generation TAG", nothing in Gramps use custom attributes, and if I don't remember wrong, you have to manually add it to reports to display/write them in the report... So it will be of no problems what so ever to use custom attributes to help remember the generations from a given person as long as you remember from who you started, and actually you can have multiple "Generations fields pair" one for each branch of a persons family... i.e. one person can be a generation 3 in the mothers branch from a given person, but generation 4 or 5 in the fathers branch from another given person living in the same era..

It will of course be a lot to organize and keep control over, but it shouldn't affect the way Gramps works in any way that I can see, it will be the same as adding an Attribute of a persons height, their hair color or the eye color they have... its just "some information" in a data pair...

j
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Re: Generation identifier

GRAMPS - User mailing list
Good point. I suppose I should say that they remain internally consistent to their attached person so long as there is a date attribute too.

-Brian

On Sat, May 4, 2019 at 17:24, Victor Engel
Hair color certainly changes. Eye color can change due to injury, but that is rare.

On Sat, May 4, 2019 at 5:19 PM Emyoulation--- via Gramps-users <[hidden email]> wrote:
One major difference is that attributes like hair & eye color don't change and height can be tied to a date. The generations and relationships attribute need a point of origin to have any meaning. 

It makes NO sense to manually calculate & enter such an attribute. It is too prone to human error and omission. 

If you're going to have to write a custom report to give meaning to an explicitly stored generational data anyway, you might as well have it calculate and insert that info.

-Brian

On Sat, May 4, 2019 at 15:39, StoltHD
Brian, 

It should not be any problem using a custom Attribute field to manually add a "Generation TAG", nothing in Gramps use custom attributes, and if I don't remember wrong, you have to manually add it to reports to display/write them in the report... So it will be of no problems what so ever to use custom attributes to help remember the generations from a given person as long as you remember from who you started, and actually you can have multiple "Generations fields pair" one for each branch of a persons family... i.e. one person can be a generation 3 in the mothers branch from a given person, but generation 4 or 5 in the fathers branch from another given person living in the same era..

It will of course be a lot to organize and keep control over, but it shouldn't affect the way Gramps works in any way that I can see, it will be the same as adding an Attribute of a persons height, their hair color or the eye color they have... its just "some information" in a data pair...

j
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Re: Generation identifier

KimFella
In reply to this post by GRAMPS - User mailing list
[sidebar: is it the preference on this forum to reply above the quote or
below? Me, I prefer above.]

Thank you. This looks like the better way to do it, except that I'd like it
to show up in the 'People' view and Pedigree chart. (And by the way is there
a descendant chart? Not the fan design. I find that hard to read.)

I finally found how to add Tags . . . and quickly realized that was NOT the
way to get what I want. (Also that a tag is the text name of that tag, not
something I can add a value to ... i.e. create a tag called "Generation" and
that is all it is. You don't get an opportunity to add a value like '1' or
'2' to it. Yup not the way to go.


> Likewise, perspective is often shifted to a historically more-interesting
> progenitor.

more-interesting? As in: "was dishonourably discharged for striking an
officer and was disowned by his father", or "a famous Canadian author" or
even "was an English-born confidence man, real estate speculator and
political figure"?  At least all three of these people are not in my
'direct' line. (One great uncle and two great great uncles.)


GRAMPS - User mailing list wrote

> Definitely do NOT add the generational offset as an attribute manually. 
> Let Gramps manage this for you.
> Deep Connections and many of the reports will automatically display the
> generational offset.
> But the main reason not hard-code the offset is that the final project is
> rarely delivered with the conceptual perspective.  For instance, doing 1
> book for your children (based on you & your spouse) has an audience of
> only you and your direct descendants. But, if you generate 4 books, each
> one on focused on the grand-parents with their sibs; you reel in all the
> aunts, uncles, cousins & their blended families. Chances are that you'll
> get a lot more feedback.
> Likewise, perspective is often shifted to a historically more-interesting
> progenitor. So the generations might be more reasonably counted from
> immigration, military serves or achieving prominence. This also makes an
> impressive generational offset seem historic rather than merely
> out-of-date.
>
> -Brian
>  
>   On Sat, May 4, 2019 at 10:29, KimFella&lt;

> michael@

> &gt; wrote:   Is there a field/attribute that I can apply to each person
> that identifies
> what generation that person is? Relative to the 'home' person (see my
> previous post of a few minutes ago).
>
> So I decide that Agnes Emma (Butler) Leacock is generation one (the first
> to
> settle in Canada). Her husband, Walter Peter Leacock would also be
> generation one. My grandmother would then be of generation two, along with
> her many brothers and sisters. (Her husband would probably be of
> generation
> three in a separate (Burrowes) line.) My mother would be of generation
> three, and me generation four ...etc, etc, etc on down to my great
> grandchildren being of generation seven.
>
> I would like to display AEB Leacock as
> "Leacock, Agnes Emma (Butler)
> (1)
> "/<---upshift that last bit/.
>         {Harrumph! that was all supposed to be one line. Making the (1) a
> header 6 DID make it smaller, but it also put it on its own line. Just
> think
> of it as
>         *"Leacock, Agnes Emma (Butler)(1)"* with the (1) small and
> upshifted.}
>
> Initially, having to manually key that in would be fine. Possibly having
> the
> program assign the generation id automatically would be fine.  I could
> probably use Tags for this, although right now my tags editor just brings
> up
> a blank list with no option to actually add to it.
>
> And related to this, is there a convention on how to display the
> generations
> going upstream through the ancestors? Would AEB Leacock's parents be
> generation '-1' and her grandparents be '-2'?. I only have 2 ancestor
> generations for Walter, but for Agnes I have 3 in her Butler line and 2 in
> her mother's (Linton) line.--
> Sent from: http://gramps.1791082.n4.nabble.com/GRAMPS-User-f1807095.html
>
>  
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-users mailing list

> Gramps-users@.sourceforge

> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
> https://gramps-project.org





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Re: Generation identifier

victorengel
In reply to this post by GRAMPS - User mailing list
Ah, I see your point: it doesn't change depending on how you look at the record in the database like a generation does.

On Sat, May 4, 2019 at 5:27 PM [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:
Good point. I suppose I should say that they remain internally consistent to their attached person so long as there is a date attribute too.

-Brian

On Sat, May 4, 2019 at 17:24, Victor Engel
Hair color certainly changes. Eye color can change due to injury, but that is rare.

On Sat, May 4, 2019 at 5:19 PM Emyoulation--- via Gramps-users <[hidden email]> wrote:
One major difference is that attributes like hair & eye color don't change and height can be tied to a date. The generations and relationships attribute need a point of origin to have any meaning. 

It makes NO sense to manually calculate & enter such an attribute. It is too prone to human error and omission. 

If you're going to have to write a custom report to give meaning to an explicitly stored generational data anyway, you might as well have it calculate and insert that info.

-Brian

On Sat, May 4, 2019 at 15:39, StoltHD
Brian, 

It should not be any problem using a custom Attribute field to manually add a "Generation TAG", nothing in Gramps use custom attributes, and if I don't remember wrong, you have to manually add it to reports to display/write them in the report... So it will be of no problems what so ever to use custom attributes to help remember the generations from a given person as long as you remember from who you started, and actually you can have multiple "Generations fields pair" one for each branch of a persons family... i.e. one person can be a generation 3 in the mothers branch from a given person, but generation 4 or 5 in the fathers branch from another given person living in the same era..

It will of course be a lot to organize and keep control over, but it shouldn't affect the way Gramps works in any way that I can see, it will be the same as adding an Attribute of a persons height, their hair color or the eye color they have... its just "some information" in a data pair...

j
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Re: Generation identifier

Ron Johnson
And hair color certainly doesn't change when you split or merge two trees...


On 5/4/19 6:18 PM, Victor Engel wrote:
Ah, I see your point: it doesn't change depending on how you look at the record in the database like a generation does.

On Sat, May 4, 2019 at 5:27 PM [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:
Good point. I suppose I should say that they remain internally consistent to their attached person so long as there is a date attribute too.

-Brian

On Sat, May 4, 2019 at 17:24, Victor Engel
Hair color certainly changes. Eye color can change due to injury, but that is rare.

On Sat, May 4, 2019 at 5:19 PM Emyoulation--- via Gramps-users <[hidden email]> wrote:
One major difference is that attributes like hair & eye color don't change and height can be tied to a date. The generations and relationships attribute need a point of origin to have any meaning. 

It makes NO sense to manually calculate & enter such an attribute. It is too prone to human error and omission. 

If you're going to have to write a custom report to give meaning to an explicitly stored generational data anyway, you might as well have it calculate and insert that info.

-Brian

On Sat, May 4, 2019 at 15:39, StoltHD
Brian, 

It should not be any problem using a custom Attribute field to manually add a "Generation TAG", nothing in Gramps use custom attributes, and if I don't remember wrong, you have to manually add it to reports to display/write them in the report... So it will be of no problems what so ever to use custom attributes to help remember the generations from a given person as long as you remember from who you started, and actually you can have multiple "Generations fields pair" one for each branch of a persons family... i.e. one person can be a generation 3 in the mothers branch from a given person, but generation 4 or 5 in the fathers branch from another given person living in the same era..

It will of course be a lot to organize and keep control over, but it shouldn't affect the way Gramps works in any way that I can see, it will be the same as adding an Attribute of a persons height, their hair color or the eye color they have... its just "some information" in a data pair...

j

--
Angular momentum makes the world go 'round.


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Re: Generation identifier

StoltHD
I think you all need to read what was asked for in the original post...

Its not a problem to add a generation 1,2, 3, 4, x in an attribute field as long as its for internal personal use, its totally manual and will not interfere with any Gramps functions, you need to have manueal control of it, and it will not bring any meaning to anyone but yourself... but its a way of controlling a given set of entities for a given workflow in a given setting...

Its just like setting a Nick Name, or a sort by name, or a TAG, except, you need to hold control of it by yourself and anything and everything about it is manual...

I do this all the time with other temporary information, like if i'm working with a given crew and passenger on a ship, and want to set some temporary value that don't fit in any other field in Gramps... It doesn't harm anything, and if you forget it, and sent the record to someone else, it doesn't have any meaning, but it do NOT harm the data in any way.

søn. 5. mai 2019 kl. 02:23 skrev Ron Johnson <[hidden email]>:
And hair color certainly doesn't change when you split or merge two trees...


On 5/4/19 6:18 PM, Victor Engel wrote:
Ah, I see your point: it doesn't change depending on how you look at the record in the database like a generation does.

On Sat, May 4, 2019 at 5:27 PM [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:
Good point. I suppose I should say that they remain internally consistent to their attached person so long as there is a date attribute too.

-Brian

On Sat, May 4, 2019 at 17:24, Victor Engel
Hair color certainly changes. Eye color can change due to injury, but that is rare.

On Sat, May 4, 2019 at 5:19 PM Emyoulation--- via Gramps-users <[hidden email]> wrote:
One major difference is that attributes like hair & eye color don't change and height can be tied to a date. The generations and relationships attribute need a point of origin to have any meaning. 

It makes NO sense to manually calculate & enter such an attribute. It is too prone to human error and omission. 

If you're going to have to write a custom report to give meaning to an explicitly stored generational data anyway, you might as well have it calculate and insert that info.

-Brian

On Sat, May 4, 2019 at 15:39, StoltHD
Brian, 

It should not be any problem using a custom Attribute field to manually add a "Generation TAG", nothing in Gramps use custom attributes, and if I don't remember wrong, you have to manually add it to reports to display/write them in the report... So it will be of no problems what so ever to use custom attributes to help remember the generations from a given person as long as you remember from who you started, and actually you can have multiple "Generations fields pair" one for each branch of a persons family... i.e. one person can be a generation 3 in the mothers branch from a given person, but generation 4 or 5 in the fathers branch from another given person living in the same era..

It will of course be a lot to organize and keep control over, but it shouldn't affect the way Gramps works in any way that I can see, it will be the same as adding an Attribute of a persons height, their hair color or the eye color they have... its just "some information" in a data pair...

j

--
Angular momentum makes the world go 'round.
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Re: Generation identifier

GRAMPS - User mailing list
You are reading a totally different meaning into the responses than what was written. We do not say that the concept is not safe nor possible, merely that it is too breakable compared to other approaches.

The custom attributes and values are entirely capable of safely storing such things.

However, this particular example is counter to the whole concept of database design. Storimg data that can be simply calculated from known data should be a last resort. If the calculation is processing intensive, it sometimes make sense to store batch processed values. (That why re-indexing is a standard maintenance activity.) 

It is counterproductive to create a new field to manually store redundant information. Manual data entry is labor intensive, prone to human error and omission. This creates potential for a data harmonization problem. 

It is simply more efficient to achieve the stated goal with a different approach. A solid alternative might still be to store this generation offset as a custom attribute... but write a tools which calculates that data rather than manually keying in the values. 

(Such a tool would also force a decision of what to do with multiple degrees of consanguinity with different generational offsets.) 

-Brian

On Tue, May 7, 2019 at 13:03, StoltHD
I think you all need to read what was asked for in the original post...
Its not a problem to add a generation 1,2, 3, 4, x in an attribute field as long as its for internal personal use, its totally manual and will not interfere with any Gramps functions, you need to have manueal control of it, and it will not bring any meaning to anyone but yourself... but its a way of controlling a given set of entities for a given workflow in a given setting...
Its just like setting a Nick Name, or a sort by name, or a TAG, except, you need to hold control of it by yourself and anything and everything about it is manual...
I do this all the time with other temporary information, like if i'm working with a given crew and passenger on a ship, and want to set some temporary value that don't fit in any other field in Gramps... It doesn't harm anything, and if you forget it, and sent the record to someone else, it doesn't have any meaning, but it do NOT harm the data in any way.
søn. 5. mai 2019 kl. 02:23 skrev Ron Johnson <[hidden email]>:


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Re: Generation identifier

StoltHD
The point is that if you use a custom attribute field, you can both use that and the Gramps feature of relations, the manual entries will only count for the one family you have entered it for, while you can change your home person and generate new relation calculations with Gramps feature as you please...

The one doesn't limit the other...

Remember that a few of us actually do a lot more in Gramps than lineage-linked research, and because of that often need multiple ways of finding entities in the database (read: entities = people, places, events w.m.)

Just as a digression, I am building a Norwegian farm database with more than 80000 farm names, and the total of dependencies between different places are extensive, with both geographical, political and religious hierarchies...

I also register complete Census sheets connected to the places by different time spans, and ships lists with both crew and passenger, and not all people are connected, only way to control this is by making workarounds until 5.1 are released, hopefully some of this workaround can be changed then...

Yes, it is some extra manual work, but it is NOT neither counterproductive nor redundant to store information this way all the time the different attributes are used for different things/way to find data and relations between two or more entities (see over)...

it is easier to make a filter or search that find a custom attribute, that it is to change home person avery time you want to find a relation between two persons that do not change their positions to each other regarding generations or releation in the database...

i.e. it can be easier to  search for "john's 15x grandfather" in a custom attribute, than switch home person from "Gerda" to "John" and then run the Relationship Generator, just to go back and set Gerda as home person again and and rerun the relationship generator...

There are a lot more about Gramps and genealogy research than lineage-linked research and a relation database...

Actually, the bast way to register genealogy and historical events and research is with a graph database or a noSQL approach, where you can add any and all relations as you like...
----
From time to time, you actually need need to add a relationship between person X and Y, where X is R1 to Y and uncle to B, its not possible in Gramps without using custom attributes or create a Event and add people with custom Roles to that Event...

So when you actually have a "not out of the box" solution for a problem, use it and tell others, as long as the software don't support everything and anything, you need to find ways of doing things that's not straight forward...

Sometimes its needed to forget about "database design", and "best practice", the most important thing is to find a way to register information in a way that makes it easy to find it back and to have the information you need accessible without to much extra work...

Sorry for bad english, not my native language...

tir. 7. mai 2019 kl. 20:50 skrev [hidden email] <[hidden email]>:
You are reading a totally different meaning into the responses than what was written. We do not say that the concept is not safe nor possible, merely that it is too breakable compared to other approaches.

The custom attributes and values are entirely capable of safely storing such things.

However, this particular example is counter to the whole concept of database design. Storimg data that can be simply calculated from known data should be a last resort. If the calculation is processing intensive, it sometimes make sense to store batch processed values. (That why re-indexing is a standard maintenance activity.) 

It is counterproductive to create a new field to manually store redundant information. Manual data entry is labor intensive, prone to human error and omission. This creates potential for a data harmonization problem. 

It is simply more efficient to achieve the stated goal with a different approach. A solid alternative might still be to store this generation offset as a custom attribute... but write a tools which calculates that data rather than manually keying in the values. 

(Such a tool would also force a decision of what to do with multiple degrees of consanguinity with different generational offsets.) 

-Brian

On Tue, May 7, 2019 at 13:03, StoltHD
I think you all need to read what was asked for in the original post...
Its not a problem to add a generation 1,2, 3, 4, x in an attribute field as long as its for internal personal use, its totally manual and will not interfere with any Gramps functions, you need to have manueal control of it, and it will not bring any meaning to anyone but yourself... but its a way of controlling a given set of entities for a given workflow in a given setting...
Its just like setting a Nick Name, or a sort by name, or a TAG, except, you need to hold control of it by yourself and anything and everything about it is manual...
I do this all the time with other temporary information, like if i'm working with a given crew and passenger on a ship, and want to set some temporary value that don't fit in any other field in Gramps... It doesn't harm anything, and if you forget it, and sent the record to someone else, it doesn't have any meaning, but it do NOT harm the data in any way.
søn. 5. mai 2019 kl. 02:23 skrev Ron Johnson <[hidden email]>:


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