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Gramps 4.0.0 beta1?

jerome
Hi,


Should we think on an alpha5 (or beta1?) for the next week (2013-02-28)?
Maybe with the first unstable bundle for Windows OS?

There is some changes since alpha4 (end of january):
http://sourceforge.net/p/gramps/code/21381/log/

I made a new installation and I used last revision (21381).
Except maybe some files and folders for testing code and maybe no more used files (what does configure.glade? what about Web App ?), I do not get major issues.

I have problems with my config since 2 weeks: Gtk apps still using PyGtk libs and bindings do not work anymore! eg, Gramps 3.4.2 ...

Looking at 3.4.3 roadmap[1], I wonder how and when to get 3.4.3 release?


[1] http://www.gramps-project.org/bugs/roadmap_page.php?version_id=35


regards,
Jérôme

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Re: Gramps 4.0.0 beta1?

Paul Franklin-5
On 2/22/13, jerome <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
> Should we think on an alpha5 (or beta1?) for the next week (2013-02-28)?

If I were to vote, I'd choose alpha5.  I see lots of bugs in the tracker still.

> Maybe with the first unstable bundle for Windows OS?

Great idea -- if Helge and Josip have made enough progress.

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Re: Gramps 4.0.0 beta1?

Benny Malengier
In reply to this post by jerome
Yes, good idea.
Do a beta 1.
No more new festures, only bug fixes.
People might think that beta means stable, and I do think Gramps no longer will eat your data. As Paul says, still crashes, but no new features should land, so beta is a good denomination.

Benny


2013/2/22 jerome <[hidden email]>
Hi,


Should we think on an alpha5 (or beta1?) for the next week (2013-02-28)?
Maybe with the first unstable bundle for Windows OS?

There is some changes since alpha4 (end of january):
http://sourceforge.net/p/gramps/code/21381/log/

I made a new installation and I used last revision (21381).
Except maybe some files and folders for testing code and maybe no more used files (what does configure.glade? what about Web App ?), I do not get major issues.

I have problems with my config since 2 weeks: Gtk apps still using PyGtk libs and bindings do not work anymore! eg, Gramps 3.4.2 ...

Looking at 3.4.3 roadmap[1], I wonder how and when to get 3.4.3 release?


[1] http://www.gramps-project.org/bugs/roadmap_page.php?version_id=35


regards,
Jérôme

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Re: Gramps 4.0.0 beta1?

pat49
>I do think Gramps no longer will eat your data.

Really, you may be right but bug 6449[1] makes gives me concern and I still can not work it out what happened!

-Pat

[1]http://www.gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=6449

---- On Sat, 23 Feb 2013 05:52:53 +1100 Benny Malengier <[hidden email]> wrote ----

Yes, good idea.
Do a beta 1.
No more new festures, only bug fixes.
People might think that beta means stable, and I do think Gramps no longer will eat your data. As Paul says, still crashes, but no new features should land, so beta is a good denomination.

Benny


2013/2/22 jerome <[hidden email]>
Hi,


Should we think on an alpha5 (or beta1?) for the next week (2013-02-28)?
Maybe with the first unstable bundle for Windows OS?

There is some changes since alpha4 (end of january):
http://sourceforge.net/p/gramps/code/21381/log/

I made a new installation and I used last revision (21381).
Except maybe some files and folders for testing code and maybe no more used files (what does configure.glade? what about Web App ?), I do not get major issues.

I have problems with my config since 2 weeks: Gtk apps still using PyGtk libs and bindings do not work anymore! eg, Gramps 3.4.2 ...

Looking at 3.4.3 roadmap[1], I wonder how and when to get 3.4.3 release?


[1] http://www.gramps-project.org/bugs/roadmap_page.php?version_id=35


regards,
Jérôme

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Re: Gramps 4.0.0 beta1?

John Ralls-2
In reply to this post by Benny Malengier

On Feb 22, 2013, at 10:52 AM, Benny Malengier <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Yes, good idea.
> Do a beta 1.
> No more new festures, only bug fixes.
> People might think that beta means stable, and I do think Gramps no longer will eat your data. As Paul says, still crashes, but no new features should land, so beta is a good denomination.
>

Should I backport the locale changes to gramps40 before we release beta1?

Regards
John Ralls



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Re: Gramps 4.0.0 beta1?

Benny Malengier



2013/2/23 John Ralls <[hidden email]>

On Feb 22, 2013, at 10:52 AM, Benny Malengier <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Yes, good idea.
> Do a beta 1.
> No more new festures, only bug fixes.
> People might think that beta means stable, and I do think Gramps no longer will eat your data. As Paul says, still crashes, but no new features should land, so beta is a good denomination.
>

Should I backport the locale changes to gramps40 before we release beta1?

I did not follow the work in trunk. Can you briefly explain what advantage it would bring to gramps40?

Benny

Regards
John Ralls




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Re: Gramps 4.0.0 beta1?

John Ralls-2

On Feb 23, 2013, at 8:46 AM, Benny Malengier <[hidden email]> wrote:




2013/2/23 John Ralls <[hidden email]>

On Feb 22, 2013, at 10:52 AM, Benny Malengier <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Yes, good idea.
> Do a beta 1.
> No more new festures, only bug fixes.
> People might think that beta means stable, and I do think Gramps no longer will eat your data. As Paul says, still crashes, but no new features should land, so beta is a good denomination.
>

Should I backport the locale changes to gramps40 before we release beta1?

I did not follow the work in trunk. Can you briefly explain what advantage it would bring to gramps40?


The advantages are largely for developers: Instead of 4 modules affecting translation, there are only 2, and one of them, libtranslate.py, will be  consolidated in the next time I have some cycles to do so, leaving only GrampsLocale. By providing a global locale object, there is no longer any need to call the python locale module from elsewhere in Gramps code. That abstraction facilitates the conversion to ICU, which provides better sorting especially under MSWin, and more importantly allows multiple localization objects so that when one runs a report in a language other than the UI locale, the l10n can change as well as the translation. For an example, if in Gramps40 I run a report in French, the dates will still be formatted in the US MM/DD/YYYY, which would look pretty odd to most French speakers. The consolidation of libtranslate.py will fix that.

There are a few translation bugs that are fixed along the way. One that comes to mind is the selection of the translated addons list, which in Gramps40 can be confused by certain combinations of environment variables.

The intended advantage for users was to provide a preference item for language, since setting environment variables seems to be a constant source of confusion. I haven't been able yet to figure out how the preference system works -- due in large part to lack of time to study it -- so it doesn't look like that will get done in time for beta1, which is feature freeze if I understand correctly.

Regards,
John Ralls



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Re: Gramps 4.0.0 beta1?

Benny Malengier



2013/2/23 John Ralls <[hidden email]>

On Feb 23, 2013, at 8:46 AM, Benny Malengier <[hidden email]> wrote:




2013/2/23 John Ralls <[hidden email]>

On Feb 22, 2013, at 10:52 AM, Benny Malengier <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Yes, good idea.
> Do a beta 1.
> No more new festures, only bug fixes.
> People might think that beta means stable, and I do think Gramps no longer will eat your data. As Paul says, still crashes, but no new features should land, so beta is a good denomination.
>

Should I backport the locale changes to gramps40 before we release beta1?

I did not follow the work in trunk. Can you briefly explain what advantage it would bring to gramps40?


The advantages are largely for developers: Instead of 4 modules affecting translation, there are only 2, and one of them, libtranslate.py, will be  consolidated in the next time I have some cycles to do so, leaving only GrampsLocale. By providing a global locale object, there is no longer any need to call the python locale module from elsewhere in Gramps code. That abstraction facilitates the conversion to ICU, which provides better sorting especially under MSWin, and more importantly allows multiple localization objects so that when one runs a report in a language other than the UI locale, the l10n can change as well as the translation. For an example, if in Gramps40 I run a report in French, the dates will still be formatted in the US MM/DD/YYYY, which would look pretty odd to most French speakers. The consolidation of libtranslate.py will fix that.

There are a few translation bugs that are fixed along the way. One that comes to mind is the selection of the translated addons list, which in Gramps40 can be confused by certain combinations of environment variables.

The intended advantage for users was to provide a preference item for language, since setting environment variables seems to be a constant source of confusion. I haven't been able yet to figure out how the preference system works -- due in large part to lack of time to study it -- so it doesn't look like that will get done in time for beta1, which is feature freeze if I understand correctly.

Regards,
John Ralls




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Re: Gramps 4.0.0 beta1?

Benny Malengier



2013/2/23 Benny Malengier <[hidden email]>



2013/2/23 John Ralls <[hidden email]>

On Feb 23, 2013, at 8:46 AM, Benny Malengier <[hidden email]> wrote:




2013/2/23 John Ralls <[hidden email]>

On Feb 22, 2013, at 10:52 AM, Benny Malengier <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Yes, good idea.
> Do a beta 1.
> No more new festures, only bug fixes.
> People might think that beta means stable, and I do think Gramps no longer will eat your data. As Paul says, still crashes, but no new features should land, so beta is a good denomination.
>

Should I backport the locale changes to gramps40 before we release beta1?

I did not follow the work in trunk. Can you briefly explain what advantage it would bring to gramps40?


The advantages are largely for developers: Instead of 4 modules affecting translation, there are only 2, and one of them, libtranslate.py, will be  consolidated in the next time I have some cycles to do so, leaving only GrampsLocale. By providing a global locale object, there is no longer any need to call the python locale module from elsewhere in Gramps code. That abstraction facilitates the conversion to ICU, which provides better sorting especially under MSWin, and more importantly allows multiple localization objects so that when one runs a report in a language other than the UI locale, the l10n can change as well as the translation. For an example, if in Gramps40 I run a report in French, the dates will still be formatted in the US MM/DD/YYYY, which would look pretty odd to most French speakers. The consolidation of libtranslate.py will fix that.

There are a few translation bugs that are fixed along the way. One that comes to mind is the selection of the translated addons list, which in Gramps40 can be confused by certain combinations of environment variables.

The intended advantage for users was to provide a preference item for language, since setting environment variables seems to be a constant source of confusion. I haven't been able yet to figure out how the preference system works -- due in large part to lack of time to study it -- so it doesn't look like that will get done in time for beta1, which is feature freeze if I understand correctly.

Ok, backport the changes on locale to gramps40.
The preference changes would be for trunk.

We are not too strict in freezing features, if it are things limited to a plugin or single view. But when a change is not contained, or in the core, it is indeed time for  feature freeze. It's time to land with gramps40, I hope to have time in March to clean up the roadmap in such a way we can do a release.

Benny
 

Regards,
John Ralls





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Re: Gramps 4.0.0 beta1?

Paul Franklin-5
On 2/23/13, Benny Malengier <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Ok, backport the changes on locale to gramps40.

I strongly applaud this decision.

It will facilitate doing a recursive diff between trunk and gramps40,
when the time comes, to catch bug fixes which have only been put
into one and not the other, for whatever reason.

Thanks.

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Re: Gramps 4.0.0 beta1?

John Ralls-2

On Feb 23, 2013, at 10:23 AM, Paul Franklin <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 2/23/13, Benny Malengier <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Ok, backport the changes on locale to gramps40.
>
> I strongly applaud this decision.
>
> It will facilitate doing a recursive diff between trunk and gramps40,
> when the time comes, to catch bug fixes which have only been put
> into one and not the other, for whatever reason.


Benny,

Apropos that, is there anything in trunk that you *don't* want in Gramps40? It's only a little more work to rebase the whole trunk onto Gramps40 compared to cherry picking just my locale changes.

Regards,
John Ralls
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Re: Gramps 4.0.0 beta1?

Benny Malengier



2013/2/23 John Ralls <[hidden email]>

On Feb 23, 2013, at 10:23 AM, Paul Franklin <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 2/23/13, Benny Malengier <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Ok, backport the changes on locale to gramps40.
>
> I strongly applaud this decision.
>
> It will facilitate doing a recursive diff between trunk and gramps40,
> when the time comes, to catch bug fixes which have only been put
> into one and not the other, for whatever reason.


Benny,

Apropos that, is there anything in trunk that you *don't* want in Gramps40? It's only a little more work to rebase the whole trunk onto Gramps40 compared to cherry picking just my locale changes.

There is a database change that I know of, so this is not possible. Gramps 40 needs to be database interchangeable with 3.4, to allow people to go back, even if they did not have a backup. Gramps 4.0 is a big change.

I assume if people have been doing changes in trunk, but not in gramps40, they had good reasons, so best to stick with your own stuff.

Benny

Regards,
John Ralls
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Re: Gramps 4.0.0 beta1?

Paul Franklin-5
On 2/23/13, Benny Malengier <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I assume if people have been doing changes in trunk, but not in gramps40,
> they had good reasons, so best to stick with your own stuff.

I haven't looked recently but the last time I did there were changes in
gramps40 which were not (yet?) in trunk.

I have also seen what (to me) looked like normal bug fixes, which
were only done in trunk and not in gramps40.

I have also seen (some time in the past) changes which were done in
gramps34 and in trunk, but not in gramps40.

All of which is why I suggest eventually doing a recursive diff,
preferably by somebody who can evaluate what the differences are.

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Re: Gramps 4.0.0 beta1?

John Ralls-2
In reply to this post by Benny Malengier

On Feb 23, 2013, at 12:37 PM, Benny Malengier <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
>
> 2013/2/23 John Ralls <[hidden email]>
>
> On Feb 23, 2013, at 10:23 AM, Paul Franklin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 2/23/13, Benny Malengier <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Ok, backport the changes on locale to gramps40.
>>
>> I strongly applaud this decision.
>>
>> It will facilitate doing a recursive diff between trunk and gramps40,
>> when the time comes, to catch bug fixes which have only been put
>> into one and not the other, for whatever reason.
>
>
> Benny,
>
> Apropos that, is there anything in trunk that you *don't* want in Gramps40? It's only a little more work to rebase the whole trunk onto Gramps40 compared to cherry picking just my locale changes.
>
> There is a database change that I know of, so this is not possible. Gramps 40 needs to be database interchangeable with 3.4, to allow people to go back, even if they did not have a backup. Gramps 4.0 is a big change.
>
> I assume if people have been doing changes in trunk, but not in gramps40, they had good reasons, so best to stick with your own stuff.
>

Right. I'd forgotten about the DB change.

Regards,
John Ralls



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Re: Gramps 4.0.0 beta1?

Benny Malengier
In reply to this post by Paul Franklin-5



2013/2/23 Paul Franklin <[hidden email]>
On 2/23/13, Benny Malengier <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I assume if people have been doing changes in trunk, but not in gramps40,
> they had good reasons, so best to stick with your own stuff.

I haven't looked recently but the last time I did there were changes in
gramps40 which were not (yet?) in trunk.

I have also seen what (to me) looked like normal bug fixes, which
were only done in trunk and not in gramps40.

I have also seen (some time in the past) changes which were done in
gramps34 and in trunk, but not in gramps40.

All of which is why I suggest eventually doing a recursive diff,
preferably by somebody who can evaluate what the differences are.

This is a good idea, but might be more work than you would expect. And easy to overlook the real problems.
However unfortunate this is, all releases have been  plagued by this. Without mandatory review, I don't know how it can be avoided. It's a matter of correct workflows of individual developers.

Benny


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Re: Gramps 4.0.0 beta1?

Espen Berg-2
Hi,
should det bug report for
http://www.gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=6459 be in the roadmap
for any of the target versions (e.g. 3.4.3)? Fixing this bug will most
likely speed up the import og FrampsXML files as there became a whole
lot of (duplicated) citations even for relatively small databases when
the citations were introduced as they appear today. All these
citations really slows down the import of GrampsXML (I think).

What do you think? I really like the citation concept and admire the
great work you all do!


Cheers
Espen


2013/2/23 Benny Malengier <[hidden email]>:

>
>
>
> 2013/2/23 Paul Franklin <[hidden email]>
>>
>> On 2/23/13, Benny Malengier <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> > I assume if people have been doing changes in trunk, but not in
>> > gramps40,
>> > they had good reasons, so best to stick with your own stuff.
>>
>> I haven't looked recently but the last time I did there were changes in
>> gramps40 which were not (yet?) in trunk.
>>
>> I have also seen what (to me) looked like normal bug fixes, which
>> were only done in trunk and not in gramps40.
>>
>> I have also seen (some time in the past) changes which were done in
>> gramps34 and in trunk, but not in gramps40.
>>
>> All of which is why I suggest eventually doing a recursive diff,
>> preferably by somebody who can evaluate what the differences are.
>
>
> This is a good idea, but might be more work than you would expect. And easy
> to overlook the real problems.
> However unfortunate this is, all releases have been  plagued by this.
> Without mandatory review, I don't know how it can be avoided. It's a matter
> of correct workflows of individual developers.
>
> Benny
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
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>

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Re: Gramps 4.0.0 beta1?

Benny Malengier
Espen,

This is not a new error, and documented on the wiki. Fixing it will not increase the speed. Increase the limit on locks just make it run longer. Allowing more locks is connected to the amount of RAM/disk_space I believe, so just increasing it for everyone might not be the best option for everyone.

I agree it would be much better if we could avoid it, but think a redesign of the import is needed, where we allow the database in an unsafe state. Something like 'fast unsafe import'. If backup is taken first, that would be safe. It is matter of closing transactions more to the database, so that the locks can be released.

Did you find where you can increase the number of locks?

Benny


2013/2/24 Espen Berg <[hidden email]>
Hi,
should det bug report for
http://www.gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=6459 be in the roadmap
for any of the target versions (e.g. 3.4.3)? Fixing this bug will most
likely speed up the import og FrampsXML files as there became a whole
lot of (duplicated) citations even for relatively small databases when
the citations were introduced as they appear today. All these
citations really slows down the import of GrampsXML (I think).

What do you think? I really like the citation concept and admire the
great work you all do!


Cheers
Espen


2013/2/23 Benny Malengier <[hidden email]>:
>
>
>
> 2013/2/23 Paul Franklin <[hidden email]>
>>
>> On 2/23/13, Benny Malengier <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> > I assume if people have been doing changes in trunk, but not in
>> > gramps40,
>> > they had good reasons, so best to stick with your own stuff.
>>
>> I haven't looked recently but the last time I did there were changes in
>> gramps40 which were not (yet?) in trunk.
>>
>> I have also seen what (to me) looked like normal bug fixes, which
>> were only done in trunk and not in gramps40.
>>
>> I have also seen (some time in the past) changes which were done in
>> gramps34 and in trunk, but not in gramps40.
>>
>> All of which is why I suggest eventually doing a recursive diff,
>> preferably by somebody who can evaluate what the differences are.
>
>
> This is a good idea, but might be more work than you would expect. And easy
> to overlook the real problems.
> However unfortunate this is, all releases have been  plagued by this.
> Without mandatory review, I don't know how it can be avoided. It's a matter
> of correct workflows of individual developers.
>
> Benny
>
>
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Re: Gramps 4.0.0 beta1?

jerome
In reply to this post by John Ralls-2
> For an example, if in Gramps40 I run a report in French, the dates will
> still be formatted in the US MM/DD/YYYY,

This should not be the case on Detailed reports (DDR, DAR) and the other
textual individual report calling libtranslate?

http://www.gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=Coding_for_translation#Textual_reports

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Re: Gramps 4.0.0 beta1?

jerome
Do you mean Date format set?
  To be able to get a date format set on any localized date handlers?

Does it mean that we do not need anymore to run a new gramps session
after changing date format? ('Display' item into 'Preferences' dialog).


Le 24/02/2013 10:29, Jérôme a écrit :

>> For an example, if in Gramps40 I run a report in French, the dates will
>> still be formatted in the US MM/DD/YYYY,
>
> This should not be the case on Detailed reports (DDR, DAR) and the other
> textual individual report calling libtranslate?
>
> http://www.gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=Coding_for_translation#Textual_reports
>
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Re: Gramps 4.0.0 beta1?

John Ralls-2
In reply to this post by jerome

On Feb 24, 2013, at 1:29 AM, Jérôme <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> For an example, if in Gramps40 I run a report in French, the dates will
>> still be formatted in the US MM/DD/YYYY,
>
> This should not be the case on Detailed reports (DDR, DAR) and the other textual individual report calling libtranslate?
>
> http://www.gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=Coding_for_translation#Textual_reports

You're right, date was a poor example because of our special date handlers. A better example would be that three-and-a-half will display as 3.5 instead of 3,5.

Regards,
John Ralls


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