[Gramps-users] Linux Genealogy Live CD

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[Gramps-users] Linux Genealogy Live CD

Alex Roitman
Hello,

We are preparing the Linux Genealogy Live CD. The purpose
of this CD is to give people a chance to see the state of
genealogy software on Linux. Granted, this will not include
things like self-maintained SQL databases, only user-space
programs designed for Aunt Martha. The Live CD allows people
without installed Linux to see what is available on Linux.
We all have friends and relatives who can benefit from this,
I believe.

The CD is based on Ubuntu (preview of Breezy Badger release,
expected this October) and features easy installation where
things Just Work (tm).

Now, so far we have included GRAMPS, GeneWeb, and LifeLines
on this CD. Java apps cannot be installed because Ubuntu does
not provide any JRE, due to legal licensing reasons. This
excludes GenJ and other java applications. PhpGedView is still
not available in deb due to licensing reasons. Even though we
could install it from source, we don't want to enter into
distributing legally uncertain package.

Is there any other applications that could/should be installed
on this CD to give a fair preview of genealogical software for
Linux? Preference will be given to user-space tools, as opposed
to things where new kernel modules have to be compiled or new
device drivers installed :-) After all, the Live CD is for the
Linux newbies.

Another question to this extent is about the distribution
of this CD when it is ready. The CD image is around 700MB.
We cannot afford offering it for download from gramps-project
web site, because it will quickly eat up our monthly badnwidth.
Hence we are looking into other ways to distribute it.
There are a couple of parties (myself included) that may try
selling physical CDs. If there are people on this list
interested in selling such CDs to the public, please let
us know so that we can coordinate. If there are people or
projects willing to provide downloads (free or for a fee)
for the 700MB beast and have the ability to do so, please
let us know as well. As the whole thing is Free Software,
nobody prevents any person from selling or giving away
(or both :-) this contents.

Finally, we're looking forward to any feedback on this CD.
If anybody is interested in looking at it and voicing an
opinion (the more detailed, the better), we would be very
grateful and happy to try arranging it. The best thing would
be to have an FTP server that I could upload the iso to.
If this does not work then we can think something up, on a
case by case basis.

If somebody wants to do a similar thing, this is the site
with pretty good instructions:
   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveCDCustomizationHowTo


We're striving to make this Live CD as good and useful as
possible. Please feel free to help us if you feel like it.
Any feedback is appreciated.

Thanks,
Alex

--
Alexander Roitman   http://www.gramps-project.org

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Re: [Gramps-users] Linux Genealogy Live CD

Brian Matherly-4
Alex,

Might Bittorrent be a possible distribution technology?

~Brian

--- Alex Roitman <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> We are preparing the Linux Genealogy Live CD. The purpose
> of this CD is to give people a chance to see the state of
> genealogy software on Linux. Granted, this will not include
> things like self-maintained SQL databases, only user-space
> programs designed for Aunt Martha. The Live CD allows people
> without installed Linux to see what is available on Linux.
> We all have friends and relatives who can benefit from this,
> I believe.
>
> The CD is based on Ubuntu (preview of Breezy Badger release,
> expected this October) and features easy installation where
> things Just Work (tm).
>
> Now, so far we have included GRAMPS, GeneWeb, and LifeLines
> on this CD. Java apps cannot be installed because Ubuntu does
> not provide any JRE, due to legal licensing reasons. This
> excludes GenJ and other java applications. PhpGedView is still
> not available in deb due to licensing reasons. Even though we
> could install it from source, we don't want to enter into
> distributing legally uncertain package.
>
> Is there any other applications that could/should be installed
> on this CD to give a fair preview of genealogical software for
> Linux? Preference will be given to user-space tools, as opposed
> to things where new kernel modules have to be compiled or new
> device drivers installed :-) After all, the Live CD is for the
> Linux newbies.
>
> Another question to this extent is about the distribution
> of this CD when it is ready. The CD image is around 700MB.
> We cannot afford offering it for download from gramps-project
> web site, because it will quickly eat up our monthly badnwidth.
> Hence we are looking into other ways to distribute it.
> There are a couple of parties (myself included) that may try
> selling physical CDs. If there are people on this list
> interested in selling such CDs to the public, please let
> us know so that we can coordinate. If there are people or
> projects willing to provide downloads (free or for a fee)
> for the 700MB beast and have the ability to do so, please
> let us know as well. As the whole thing is Free Software,
> nobody prevents any person from selling or giving away
> (or both :-) this contents.
>
> Finally, we're looking forward to any feedback on this CD.
> If anybody is interested in looking at it and voicing an
> opinion (the more detailed, the better), we would be very
> grateful and happy to try arranging it. The best thing would
> be to have an FTP server that I could upload the iso to.
> If this does not work then we can think something up, on a
> case by case basis.
>
> If somebody wants to do a similar thing, this is the site
> with pretty good instructions:
>    https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveCDCustomizationHowTo
>
>
> We're striving to make this Live CD as good and useful as
> possible. Please feel free to help us if you feel like it.
> Any feedback is appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Alex
>
> --
> Alexander Roitman   http://www.gramps-project.org
>



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Re: [Gramps-users] Linux Genealogy Live CD

Alex Roitman
Brian,

On Mon, 2005-10-03 at 13:00 -0700, Brian Matherly wrote:
> Might Bittorrent be a possible distribution technology?

Yes, we will probably be able to use torrent as well.
However, this still is not going to cover a lot of people
who know nothing about the torrent and who prefer to
download the image or purchase the actual CD.

We will try coordinating torrent track when the final
image is ready. If you want to get the work in progress
using torrent, please let me know.

Alex

--
Alexander Roitman   http://www.gramps-project.org

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[Gramps-users] Re: Linux Genealogy Live CD

John Stoffel
In reply to this post by Alex Roitman
>>>>> "Alex" == Alex Roitman <[hidden email]> writes:

Alex> We are preparing the Linux Genealogy Live CD. The purpose
Alex> of this CD is to give people a chance to see the state of
Alex> genealogy software on Linux.

Nice idea.  

Alex> Another question to this extent is about the distribution
Alex> of this CD when it is ready. The CD image is around 700MB.

Ouch!  Why so large?  Can we delete any and all packages on there
which aren't needed for the Genealogy aspect of things?  Strip it down
to the basics as much as possible.  

John


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Re: Linux Genealogy Live CD

Alex Roitman
On Tue, 2005-10-04 at 11:07 -0400, John Stoffel wrote:
> Alex> Another question to this extent is about the distribution
> Alex> of this CD when it is ready. The CD image is around 700MB.
>
> Ouch!  Why so large?  Can we delete any and all packages on there
> which aren't needed for the Genealogy aspect of things?  Strip it down
> to the basics as much as possible.  

The largest package is OpenOffice.org and it makes sense to have it.
The users will definitely find it handy.

Although, whether it is 700MB or 350MB, it probably makes little
difference in the overall method of the distribution. If we could
go down a factor of magnitude then it would be worth considering,
but this would leave the LiveCD in a state usable only to Linux
pro-s, not to Aunt Martha types fresh from Windows.

We do like having a nice desktop and a bunch of nice applications
to have on this CD.

Alex

--
Alexander Roitman   http://www.gramps-project.org

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Re: [Gramps-users] Re: Linux Genealogy Live CD

Don Allingham
In reply to this post by John Stoffel
The idea here is that we are promoting genealogy under Linux, not
individual programs. If we produce such a stripped down version that
Linux looks bad, we are not encouraging anyone to take Linux seriously.

The Live CD includes GNOME, OpenOffice, FireFox, the genealogy programs,
and the utilities necessary to run a basic Linux session. Enough so that
a Windows user can see what is available, and enough to give a favorable
impression.

If we go for absolute minimal size, we will give your average Aunt
Martha a minimal (and negative) impression.

Don

John Stoffel wrote:

>>>>>>"Alex" == Alex Roitman <[hidden email]> writes:
>
>
> Alex> We are preparing the Linux Genealogy Live CD. The purpose
> Alex> of this CD is to give people a chance to see the state of
> Alex> genealogy software on Linux.
>
> Nice idea.  
>
> Alex> Another question to this extent is about the distribution
> Alex> of this CD when it is ready. The CD image is around 700MB.
>
> Ouch!  Why so large?  Can we delete any and all packages on there
> which aren't needed for the Genealogy aspect of things?  Strip it down
> to the basics as much as possible.  
>
> John
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by:
> Power Architecture Resource Center: Free content, downloads, discussions,
> and more. http://solutions.newsforge.com/ibmarch.tmpl
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
>



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Re: Linux Genealogy Live CD

Robert Chéramy
In reply to this post by Alex Roitman
Alex Roitman wrote:
> Although, whether it is 700MB or 350MB, it probably makes little
> difference in the overall method of the distribution. If we could
> go down a factor of magnitude then it would be worth considering,
> but this would leave the LiveCD in a state usable only to Linux
> pro-s, not to Aunt Martha types fresh from Windows.

A factor 2 makes a big difference to me.
- For the hosting: I don't need too much hard disk space and save half
of the bandwidth.
- For the downloading: I get the software twice faster, I save my
bandwidth (I know lot of people who have only 1GByte allowed traffic per
month), and the risk that my download is interrupted is divided by 2.

I'm currently looking if I can host a mirror for the CD, and it would be
much easier for me if I knew the (zipped) CD image is only 350Mo big...

> We do like having a nice desktop and a bunch of nice applications
> to have on this CD.

That's a good point ;-)

Cheers,

tibob


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Re: Linux Genealogy Live CD

Alex Roitman
Robert,

On Tue, 2005-10-04 at 19:10 +0200, Robert Chéramy wrote:
> A factor 2 makes a big difference to me.
> - For the hosting: I don't need too much hard disk space and save half
> of the bandwidth.
> - For the downloading: I get the software twice faster, I save my
> bandwidth (I know lot of people who have only 1GByte allowed traffic per
> month), and the risk that my download is interrupted is divided by 2.

I agree that factor of 2 makes a difference, but it does not make
difference in the distribution methods. In other words, even 350MB
file is impractical to download over the dialup connection.

On the other hand, whoever is able to download 350MB file
will probably be able to do 700MB file for twice the time.
Disconnects are easily cured by e.g. ncftp which can resume
downloading from where it was interrupted.

By the same token, whoever can host 350MB file should be able
to provide hosting for 700MB, possibly for half the number
of downloads.

In any case, 350MB does not completely solve the distribution
problem. It would cripple the Live CD though.

> I'm currently looking if I can host a mirror for the CD, and it would be
> much easier for me if I knew the (zipped) CD image is only 350Mo big...

I hear you, but it will probably be close to 700MB, see below. BTW,
this is already compressed image, so zipping or gzipping would not
help much.

> > We do like having a nice desktop and a bunch of nice applications
> > to have on this CD.
>
> That's a good point ;-)

Attached is the gzipped list of installed packages with the size
in kilobytes. This is going to be compressed for the LiveCD, so
the overall 1.5GB system fits into about 650MB image. What would
be good candidates for removal? What I can think of will only
insignificantly reduce the size. The biggest packages are too
sweet to lose :-)

Alex

--
Alexander Roitman   http://www.gramps-project.org

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