Help getting started with gramps?

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Help getting started with gramps?

Dalon Work
All,

I'm just getting started, and I like the look/feel of Gramps compared to the other linux-compatible software (I'm a linux guy, what can I say?), but I'm getting a little lost in how to use Gramps. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I'm a little confused about how to use the Sources in Gramps, specifically with regards to US Census Records. I've got an image of a page of the 1940 Census that I want to put into Gramps.
How do I go about doing that? The 1940 Census is huge. Not only that, I only care about a few lines of the page I have. Unless...I get more information from the 1940 Census for a different person. New page, new image. I can't have two people both reference "the 1940 census", can I? Do I just link multiple images to the generic "1940s Census" Source, and specialize it somehow in the Citation?
What is the best way to transcribe the information I'm interested in? Do I put that in a Note?

Second question: What would be "the Repository" for this? FamilySearch, where I found the information? Or US Government? I'm not really certain.

Thank you for the help and the open-source effort!

Dalon




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Re: Help getting started with gramps?

Philip Weiss
On Sep 22 2019, at 1:13 pm, Dalon Work <[hidden email]> wrote:

I'm a little confused about how to use the Sources in Gramps, specifically with regards to US Census Records. I've got an image of a page of the 1940 Census that I want to put into Gramps.
How do I go about doing that? The 1940 Census is huge. Not only that, I only care about a few lines of the page I have. Unless...I get more information from the 1940 Census for a different person. New page, new image. I can't have two people both reference "the 1940 census", can I? Do I just link multiple images to the generic "1940s Census" Source, and specialize it somehow in the Citation?
What is the best way to transcribe the information I'm interested in? Do I put that in a Note?

Second question: What would be "the Repository" for this? FamilySearch, where I found the information? Or US Government? I'm not really certain.

I have one source as "US, 1940 Census". I then have a citation for each family referenced in that census.  "Wisconsin, Dane County, Madison, district 34-15, sheet 8B, household 126, George Weiss" in the Page field of the citation.  I then attach an image of that page to the citation and draw a box around the particular family.  Another family would have a different citation with the particular information for that other family with a different image. in some cases I have two different families on the same page, so the same image gets attached to different citations.

You could  create a separate source for each page and have only one citation for it, but then you are going to have a lot  of sources for the 1940 census and they won't be tied together even though they are conceptually  connected. 

The repository(s) would be where you have found pages used for that source.  It could be Ancestry.com, FamilySearch/FHL, the Internet Archive, or possibly even the National Archives at College Park if you went and viewed originals.  You can have multiple repositories for each source.  Unfortunately, there's not a built-in way to indicate which particular citations come from which repository.  You can do that through a note, tags, or additional text in the Page field.  Or if you really want, create one source called "US, 1940 Census (Ancestry.com)" only for census images from Ancestry and one called "US, 1940 Census (FamilySearch)" for ones from there.  I did that for a while before I decided it wasn't helping me and so I merged my two 1940 census sources.  Personally, I used the Page field to indicate which repository held the particular image I used. So my Page field in the citation reads something like "Wisconsin, Dane County, Madison, district 34-15, sheet 8B, household 126, George Weiss (https://www.ancestry.com/ : downloaded 21 Sep 2019)".

(This all is just what I do, others will do different things.  Try out a couple ways and see what works for you.)

For censuses especially, I highly recommend using the Form Addon.  It has a lot of Census forms already included which will make creating citations and events for censuses much easier.  It also allows you to add transcriptions of census fields and store those if you like.

Phil.


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Re: Help getting started with gramps?

Dave Scheipers
In reply to this post by Dalon Work
Welcome Dalon

There are as many ways to set up the Repository/Source/Citation as
there are Gramps users.

Firstly, the Repository information does not get added to what is
printed in reports for Source/Citations. The source can be as broad or
as narrow as you like it. Broadly has only a few Source entries.
Narrowly can provide a long list of Source records, some that you will
only use once.

For myself, I have one source for Census records by County/State and
Year. So I have the Source "U.S. 1940 Federal Census". I only take
these records off Ancestry so that is my Repository. The Citation
would be "State, County, Locality, page information Line ##". Since
each person has a line and number, I give each person their own event
and citation. Some users will do a Family ## citation and share the
event for all members of the family. In either case, I create a media
record for the image of the census page and this is added to the
citation's Gallery tab. The image provides the information for the
citation so that is where I put it.  The citation is what is linked
with the Source.

You find another person referenced in the 1940 census, that is a new
citation under the source with its own  "State, County, Locality Page
information Line ##".

Obviously, how much or how little is put in the Source title will
dictate how much or how little needs to be added to the Citation
entry. If it is in the Source title, I do not repeat that information
again in the citation.

There is also a "Form" application addon that can assist with census
and other types of document entry. I do not use it so cannot guide you
in its use. I point it out as something to consider.

Three things to remember as of create you scheme:
1. The information in the Source/Citation should be enough so that you
or someone else can find the same information.
3. There is no "best way". There is only "Your Way". I have :"My Way"
that works for me.
2. Be consistent in how label and name. As a test, if you look at the
Citation Tree, does it display a logical progression of information.

HTH and did not scare you off. There have been other threads on this
issue and can be found at:
https://sourceforge.net/p/gramps/mailman/gramps-users/

Dave

On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 4:14 PM Dalon Work <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> All,
>
> I'm just getting started, and I like the look/feel of Gramps compared to the other linux-compatible software (I'm a linux guy, what can I say?), but I'm getting a little lost in how to use Gramps. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> I'm a little confused about how to use the Sources in Gramps, specifically with regards to US Census Records. I've got an image of a page of the 1940 Census that I want to put into Gramps.
> How do I go about doing that? The 1940 Census is huge. Not only that, I only care about a few lines of the page I have. Unless...I get more information from the 1940 Census for a different person. New page, new image. I can't have two people both reference "the 1940 census", can I? Do I just link multiple images to the generic "1940s Census" Source, and specialize it somehow in the Citation?
> What is the best way to transcribe the information I'm interested in? Do I put that in a Note?
>
> Second question: What would be "the Repository" for this? FamilySearch, where I found the information? Or US Government? I'm not really certain.
>
> Thank you for the help and the open-source effort!
>
> Dalon
>
>
> --
> Gramps-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
> https://gramps-project.org


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Re: Help getting started with gramps?

Ron Johnson
In reply to this post by Dalon Work
On 9/22/19 3:13 PM, Dalon Work wrote:
All,

I'm just getting started, and I like the look/feel of Gramps compared to the other linux-compatible software (I'm a linux guy, what can I say?), but I'm getting a little lost in how to use Gramps. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I'm a little confused about how to use the Sources in Gramps, specifically with regards to US Census Records. I've got an image of a page of the 1940 Census that I want to put into Gramps.
How do I go about doing that? The 1940 Census is huge. Not only that, I only care about a few lines of the page I have. Unless...I get more information from the 1940 Census for a different person. New page, new image. I can't have two people both reference "the 1940 census", can I? Do I just link multiple images to the generic "1940s Census" Source, and specialize it somehow in the Citation?

I like "fat" Sources (those that have *many* Citations under them).  For example:
Source:
    1940 US Federal Census

Citation:
    Atlanta Ward  1, Fulton County, GA / E.D. 016-16 or 160-16 / Sheet 10B
    Atlanta Ward  2, DeKalb County, GA / E.D. 160-281 / Sheet 8B
    Atlanta Ward  5, Fulton County, GA / E.D. 160-201 / Sheet 4B
    Atlanta Ward  6, Fulton County, GA / E.D. 160-268
    Atlanta, Fulton Co, GA / E.D. 160-180 / Sheet 13A / Lines 2-4
    Buffalo Ward 16, Erie County, NY / E.D. 64-344 / Sheet 2B
    Buffalo, Erie Co, NY / E.D. 64-186 / Sheet 1A / Lines 4-7
    Buffalo, Erie Co, NY / E.D. 64-262 / Sheet 5B / Lines 50-51

Others like "thin" Sources (few Citations per source).  For example:
Source:
    1940 US Federal Census - Atlanta, Fulton County, GA Ward 1
Citation:
    E.D. 016-16 or 160-16 / Sheet 10B

Source:
    1940 US Federal Census -
Atlanta, DeKalb County, GA Ward  2
Citation:

    E.D. 160-281 / Sheet 8B


Attach the page images to the citations.


What is the best way to transcribe the information I'm interested in? Do I put that in a Note?

Give us an example of what you're asking about, because typically it goes in Census, Occupation, Birth and Marriage Events (Attributes are useful).

Note 1: Family objects are only for marriage-related events (engagement, wedding, divorce, etc), not stuff that happens to the Family (births, deaths, Residence, etc.)  They go in Person objects.

Note 2: Take advantage of object sharing, which is a huge time saver.  Five people living in one house on the day the Census was taken should be one Event shared by all five people.

Note 3: The clipboard is your friend, but it doesn't work like the standard clipboard.  It's a scratchpad that you must manually open and then drag to and from.

Second question: What would be "the Repository" for this? FamilySearch, where I found the information? Or US Government? I'm not really certain.

The US National Archives.

--
Angular momentum makes the world go 'round.


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Re: Help getting started with gramps?

Ron Johnson
In reply to this post by Dave Scheipers
On 9/22/19 4:02 PM, Dave Scheipers wrote:

> Welcome Dalon
>
> There are as many ways to set up the Repository/Source/Citation as
> there are Gramps users.
>
> Firstly, the Repository information does not get added to what is
> printed in reports for Source/Citations. The source can be as broad or
> as narrow as you like it. Broadly has only a few Source entries.
> Narrowly can provide a long list of Source records, some that you will
> only use once.
>
> For myself, I have one source for Census records by County/State and
> Year. So I have the Source "U.S. 1940 Federal Census". I only take
> these records off Ancestry so that is my Repository. The Citation
> would be "State, County, Locality, page information Line ##". Since
> each person has a line and number, I give each person their own event
> and citation.

Why don't you share the same event among all the people?


--
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Re: Help getting started with gramps?

Dave Scheipers
It was the way that I started and to be consistent, the way I continue.

I use shared events with the one citation if that is the way the
document reads. Many early immigration records to New England are
listed as a family. One event/one citation. Ship manifests in the late
1800's list by line, Each person gets their own event.

As you say, the Clipboard is your friend. Once I create and find all
the components for the head of family and copy them to the clipboard,
it becomes really easy to create the other individual events and
citations.

I do use the ability to share events. But my default inclination is to
give each person their own events. Ax I said, this is My Way of doing
things.

Dave

On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 5:16 PM Ron Johnson <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On 9/22/19 4:02 PM, Dave Scheipers wrote:
> > Welcome Dalon
> >
> > There are as many ways to set up the Repository/Source/Citation as
> > there are Gramps users.
> >
> > Firstly, the Repository information does not get added to what is
> > printed in reports for Source/Citations. The source can be as broad or
> > as narrow as you like it. Broadly has only a few Source entries.
> > Narrowly can provide a long list of Source records, some that you will
> > only use once.
> >
> > For myself, I have one source for Census records by County/State and
> > Year. So I have the Source "U.S. 1940 Federal Census". I only take
> > these records off Ancestry so that is my Repository. The Citation
> > would be "State, County, Locality, page information Line ##". Since
> > each person has a line and number, I give each person their own event
> > and citation.
>
> Why don't you share the same event among all the people?
>
>
> --
> Angular momentum makes the world go 'round.
>
>
> --
> Gramps-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
> https://gramps-project.org


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Re: Help getting started with gramps?

Dalon Work
In reply to this post by Philip Weiss
Phil,

Thank you for your detailed reply. It seems that gramps is not opinionated in how the information is to be structured! I like your approach and will try it first. I understand now that whether the information goes into the source or into the citation is a fuzzy line that doesn't matter all that much, just as long as you pick something and stick with it. I will try that addon soon.

Dalon

On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 4:51 PM Philip Weiss <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Sep 22 2019, at 1:13 pm, Dalon Work <[hidden email]> wrote:

I'm a little confused about how to use the Sources in Gramps, specifically with regards to US Census Records. I've got an image of a page of the 1940 Census that I want to put into Gramps.
How do I go about doing that? The 1940 Census is huge. Not only that, I only care about a few lines of the page I have. Unless...I get more information from the 1940 Census for a different person. New page, new image. I can't have two people both reference "the 1940 census", can I? Do I just link multiple images to the generic "1940s Census" Source, and specialize it somehow in the Citation?
What is the best way to transcribe the information I'm interested in? Do I put that in a Note?

Second question: What would be "the Repository" for this? FamilySearch, where I found the information? Or US Government? I'm not really certain.

I have one source as "US, 1940 Census". I then have a citation for each family referenced in that census.  "Wisconsin, Dane County, Madison, district 34-15, sheet 8B, household 126, George Weiss" in the Page field of the citation.  I then attach an image of that page to the citation and draw a box around the particular family.  Another family would have a different citation with the particular information for that other family with a different image. in some cases I have two different families on the same page, so the same image gets attached to different citations.

You could  create a separate source for each page and have only one citation for it, but then you are going to have a lot  of sources for the 1940 census and they won't be tied together even though they are conceptually  connected. 

The repository(s) would be where you have found pages used for that source.  It could be Ancestry.com, FamilySearch/FHL, the Internet Archive, or possibly even the National Archives at College Park if you went and viewed originals.  You can have multiple repositories for each source.  Unfortunately, there's not a built-in way to indicate which particular citations come from which repository.  You can do that through a note, tags, or additional text in the Page field.  Or if you really want, create one source called "US, 1940 Census (Ancestry.com)" only for census images from Ancestry and one called "US, 1940 Census (FamilySearch)" for ones from there.  I did that for a while before I decided it wasn't helping me and so I merged my two 1940 census sources.  Personally, I used the Page field to indicate which repository held the particular image I used. So my Page field in the citation reads something like "Wisconsin, Dane County, Madison, district 34-15, sheet 8B, household 126, George Weiss (https://www.ancestry.com/ : downloaded 21 Sep 2019)".

(This all is just what I do, others will do different things.  Try out a couple ways and see what works for you.)

For censuses especially, I highly recommend using the Form Addon.  It has a lot of Census forms already included which will make creating citations and events for censuses much easier.  It also allows you to add transcriptions of census fields and store those if you like.

Phil.
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Re: Help getting started with gramps?

Dalon Work
In reply to this post by Dave Scheipers
Dave,

Thank you for the detailed reply! I found your 3 points very useful, and I will peruse  the mailing list first before asking a question. I'm sure I will have more as I continue learning how to do this!

Dalon

On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 5:02 PM Dave Scheipers <[hidden email]> wrote:
Welcome Dalon

There are as many ways to set up the Repository/Source/Citation as
there are Gramps users.

Firstly, the Repository information does not get added to what is
printed in reports for Source/Citations. The source can be as broad or
as narrow as you like it. Broadly has only a few Source entries.
Narrowly can provide a long list of Source records, some that you will
only use once.

For myself, I have one source for Census records by County/State and
Year. So I have the Source "U.S. 1940 Federal Census". I only take
these records off Ancestry so that is my Repository. The Citation
would be "State, County, Locality, page information Line ##". Since
each person has a line and number, I give each person their own event
and citation. Some users will do a Family ## citation and share the
event for all members of the family. In either case, I create a media
record for the image of the census page and this is added to the
citation's Gallery tab. The image provides the information for the
citation so that is where I put it.  The citation is what is linked
with the Source.

You find another person referenced in the 1940 census, that is a new
citation under the source with its own  "State, County, Locality Page
information Line ##".

Obviously, how much or how little is put in the Source title will
dictate how much or how little needs to be added to the Citation
entry. If it is in the Source title, I do not repeat that information
again in the citation.

There is also a "Form" application addon that can assist with census
and other types of document entry. I do not use it so cannot guide you
in its use. I point it out as something to consider.

Three things to remember as of create you scheme:
1. The information in the Source/Citation should be enough so that you
or someone else can find the same information.
3. There is no "best way". There is only "Your Way". I have :"My Way"
that works for me.
2. Be consistent in how label and name. As a test, if you look at the
Citation Tree, does it display a logical progression of information.

HTH and did not scare you off. There have been other threads on this
issue and can be found at:
https://sourceforge.net/p/gramps/mailman/gramps-users/

Dave

On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 4:14 PM Dalon Work <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> All,
>
> I'm just getting started, and I like the look/feel of Gramps compared to the other linux-compatible software (I'm a linux guy, what can I say?), but I'm getting a little lost in how to use Gramps. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> I'm a little confused about how to use the Sources in Gramps, specifically with regards to US Census Records. I've got an image of a page of the 1940 Census that I want to put into Gramps.
> How do I go about doing that? The 1940 Census is huge. Not only that, I only care about a few lines of the page I have. Unless...I get more information from the 1940 Census for a different person. New page, new image. I can't have two people both reference "the 1940 census", can I? Do I just link multiple images to the generic "1940s Census" Source, and specialize it somehow in the Citation?
> What is the best way to transcribe the information I'm interested in? Do I put that in a Note?
>
> Second question: What would be "the Repository" for this? FamilySearch, where I found the information? Or US Government? I'm not really certain.
>
> Thank you for the help and the open-source effort!
>
> Dalon
>
>
> --
> Gramps-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
> https://gramps-project.org


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Re: Help getting started with gramps?

Dalon Work
In reply to this post by Ron Johnson
Ron,

I didn't quite understand your reply to my transcribing question. When I asked if I put the information in a Note, it is because the note is not a structured format. The written information is in a structured format, and I was hoping for a way to mimic that. I assume your reply about Events/Attributes was hinting at a solution to that issue?

Thank you for the tips about the object sharing and the clipboard. I would not have understood the former at first, and I didn't know about the latter.

Thank you!

Dalon



On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 5:05 PM Ron Johnson <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 9/22/19 3:13 PM, Dalon Work wrote:
All,

I'm just getting started, and I like the look/feel of Gramps compared to the other linux-compatible software (I'm a linux guy, what can I say?), but I'm getting a little lost in how to use Gramps. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I'm a little confused about how to use the Sources in Gramps, specifically with regards to US Census Records. I've got an image of a page of the 1940 Census that I want to put into Gramps.
How do I go about doing that? The 1940 Census is huge. Not only that, I only care about a few lines of the page I have. Unless...I get more information from the 1940 Census for a different person. New page, new image. I can't have two people both reference "the 1940 census", can I? Do I just link multiple images to the generic "1940s Census" Source, and specialize it somehow in the Citation?

I like "fat" Sources (those that have *many* Citations under them).  For example:
Source:
    1940 US Federal Census

Citation:
    Atlanta Ward  1, Fulton County, GA / E.D. 016-16 or 160-16 / Sheet 10B
    Atlanta Ward  2, DeKalb County, GA / E.D. 160-281 / Sheet 8B
    Atlanta Ward  5, Fulton County, GA / E.D. 160-201 / Sheet 4B
    Atlanta Ward  6, Fulton County, GA / E.D. 160-268
    Atlanta, Fulton Co, GA / E.D. 160-180 / Sheet 13A / Lines 2-4
    Buffalo Ward 16, Erie County, NY / E.D. 64-344 / Sheet 2B
    Buffalo, Erie Co, NY / E.D. 64-186 / Sheet 1A / Lines 4-7
    Buffalo, Erie Co, NY / E.D. 64-262 / Sheet 5B / Lines 50-51

Others like "thin" Sources (few Citations per source).  For example:
Source:
    1940 US Federal Census - Atlanta, Fulton County, GA Ward 1
Citation:
    E.D. 016-16 or 160-16 / Sheet 10B

Source:
    1940 US Federal Census -
Atlanta, DeKalb County, GA Ward  2
Citation:

    E.D. 160-281 / Sheet 8B


Attach the page images to the citations.


What is the best way to transcribe the information I'm interested in? Do I put that in a Note?

Give us an example of what you're asking about, because typically it goes in Census, Occupation, Birth and Marriage Events (Attributes are useful).

Note 1: Family objects are only for marriage-related events (engagement, wedding, divorce, etc), not stuff that happens to the Family (births, deaths, Residence, etc.)  They go in Person objects.

Note 2: Take advantage of object sharing, which is a huge time saver.  Five people living in one house on the day the Census was taken should be one Event shared by all five people.

Note 3: The clipboard is your friend, but it doesn't work like the standard clipboard.  It's a scratchpad that you must manually open and then drag to and from.

Second question: What would be "the Repository" for this? FamilySearch, where I found the information? Or US Government? I'm not really certain.

The US National Archives.

--
Angular momentum makes the world go 'round.
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https://gramps-project.org


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Re: Help getting started with gramps?

Ron Johnson
In reply to this post by Dalon Work

Even if you pick one way, don't hesitate to change methods midstream.  Many of have done so when we got more experience and changed our minds.

On 9/22/19 8:43 PM, Dalon Work wrote:
Phil,

Thank you for your detailed reply. It seems that gramps is not opinionated in how the information is to be structured! I like your approach and will try it first. I understand now that whether the information goes into the source or into the citation is a fuzzy line that doesn't matter all that much, just as long as you pick something and stick with it. I will try that addon soon.

Dalon

On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 4:51 PM Philip Weiss <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Sep 22 2019, at 1:13 pm, Dalon Work <[hidden email]> wrote:

I'm a little confused about how to use the Sources in Gramps, specifically with regards to US Census Records. I've got an image of a page of the 1940 Census that I want to put into Gramps.
How do I go about doing that? The 1940 Census is huge. Not only that, I only care about a few lines of the page I have. Unless...I get more information from the 1940 Census for a different person. New page, new image. I can't have two people both reference "the 1940 census", can I? Do I just link multiple images to the generic "1940s Census" Source, and specialize it somehow in the Citation?
What is the best way to transcribe the information I'm interested in? Do I put that in a Note?

Second question: What would be "the Repository" for this? FamilySearch, where I found the information? Or US Government? I'm not really certain.

I have one source as "US, 1940 Census". I then have a citation for each family referenced in that census.  "Wisconsin, Dane County, Madison, district 34-15, sheet 8B, household 126, George Weiss" in the Page field of the citation.  I then attach an image of that page to the citation and draw a box around the particular family.  Another family would have a different citation with the particular information for that other family with a different image. in some cases I have two different families on the same page, so the same image gets attached to different citations.

You could  create a separate source for each page and have only one citation for it, but then you are going to have a lot  of sources for the 1940 census and they won't be tied together even though they are conceptually  connected. 

The repository(s) would be where you have found pages used for that source.  It could be Ancestry.com, FamilySearch/FHL, the Internet Archive, or possibly even the National Archives at College Park if you went and viewed originals.  You can have multiple repositories for each source.  Unfortunately, there's not a built-in way to indicate which particular citations come from which repository.  You can do that through a note, tags, or additional text in the Page field.  Or if you really want, create one source called "US, 1940 Census (Ancestry.com)" only for census images from Ancestry and one called "US, 1940 Census (FamilySearch)" for ones from there.  I did that for a while before I decided it wasn't helping me and so I merged my two 1940 census sources.  Personally, I used the Page field to indicate which repository held the particular image I used. So my Page field in the citation reads something like "Wisconsin, Dane County, Madison, district 34-15, sheet 8B, household 126, George Weiss (https://www.ancestry.com/ : downloaded 21 Sep 2019)".

(This all is just what I do, others will do different things.  Try out a couple ways and see what works for you.)

For censuses especially, I highly recommend using the Form Addon.  It has a lot of Census forms already included which will make creating citations and events for censuses much easier.  It also allows you to add transcriptions of census fields and store those if you like.


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Re: Help getting started with gramps?

Philip Weiss
In reply to this post by Dalon Work


On Sep 22 2019, at 6:55 pm, Dalon Work <[hidden email]> wrote:
Ron,

I didn't quite understand your reply to my transcribing question. When I asked if I put the information in a Note, it is because the note is not a structured format. The written information is in a structured format, and I was hoping for a way to mimic that. I assume your reply about Events/Attributes was hinting at a solution to that issue?

Thank you for the tips about the object sharing and the clipboard. I would not have understood the former at first, and I didn't know about the latter.

Thank you!

Dalon


The Forms Addon puts the transcriptions in Event Attributes (items related to the census page as a whole) and on Event Reference Attributes (items related to each specific person in the family). You can also do that manually, but it's a LOT  slower.  The attributes from the Forms Addon can be used in filters with some work.  I don't remember if any reports include them.

Putting the transcriptions as attached notes is way more accessible, but less structured.  Because it's less structured, there's not a lot that can be done with it except view and print and edit.

Phil.


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Re: Help getting started with gramps?

Dave Gilmore
In reply to this post by Dalon Work

Hi Dalon,

First off, welcome to Gramps!

Like the others have mentioned, many people have many ways for doing source citations. The only thing I would add is that you should consider your audience when you do them. Are you planning on giving these reports to a family member? Will they ever see your Gramps database? Will they be able to follow your citation trail back to the original source and understand why you came to the conclusion that you did regarding a specific piece of information? Do you plan on filing paperwork with some sort of group like the DAR/SAR? If you plan to give your info to someone else, the output (i.e. reports you generate) is what is important. So, enter a few records and run some reports to see what it will look like before you commit to a methodology.

One of the go to books for doing citations is Elizabeth Shown Mills' Evidence Explained https://www.amazon.com/Evidence-Explained-History-Artifacts-Cyberspace/dp/0806320400/ It's a bit pricey, so the local library is your friend here if you just want to check it out first.

Dave Gilmore


On 9/22/2019 6:43 PM, Dalon Work wrote:
Phil,

Thank you for your detailed reply. It seems that gramps is not opinionated in how the information is to be structured! I like your approach and will try it first. I understand now that whether the information goes into the source or into the citation is a fuzzy line that doesn't matter all that much, just as long as you pick something and stick with it. I will try that addon soon.

Dalon

On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 4:51 PM Philip Weiss <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Sep 22 2019, at 1:13 pm, Dalon Work <[hidden email]> wrote:

I'm a little confused about how to use the Sources in Gramps, specifically with regards to US Census Records. I've got an image of a page of the 1940 Census that I want to put into Gramps.
How do I go about doing that? The 1940 Census is huge. Not only that, I only care about a few lines of the page I have. Unless...I get more information from the 1940 Census for a different person. New page, new image. I can't have two people both reference "the 1940 census", can I? Do I just link multiple images to the generic "1940s Census" Source, and specialize it somehow in the Citation?
What is the best way to transcribe the information I'm interested in? Do I put that in a Note?

Second question: What would be "the Repository" for this? FamilySearch, where I found the information? Or US Government? I'm not really certain.

I have one source as "US, 1940 Census". I then have a citation for each family referenced in that census.  "Wisconsin, Dane County, Madison, district 34-15, sheet 8B, household 126, George Weiss" in the Page field of the citation.  I then attach an image of that page to the citation and draw a box around the particular family.  Another family would have a different citation with the particular information for that other family with a different image. in some cases I have two different families on the same page, so the same image gets attached to different citations.

You could  create a separate source for each page and have only one citation for it, but then you are going to have a lot  of sources for the 1940 census and they won't be tied together even though they are conceptually  connected. 

The repository(s) would be where you have found pages used for that source.  It could be Ancestry.com, FamilySearch/FHL, the Internet Archive, or possibly even the National Archives at College Park if you went and viewed originals.  You can have multiple repositories for each source.  Unfortunately, there's not a built-in way to indicate which particular citations come from which repository.  You can do that through a note, tags, or additional text in the Page field.  Or if you really want, create one source called "US, 1940 Census (Ancestry.com)" only for census images from Ancestry and one called "US, 1940 Census (FamilySearch)" for ones from there.  I did that for a while before I decided it wasn't helping me and so I merged my two 1940 census sources.  Personally, I used the Page field to indicate which repository held the particular image I used. So my Page field in the citation reads something like "Wisconsin, Dane County, Madison, district 34-15, sheet 8B, household 126, George Weiss (https://www.ancestry.com/ : downloaded 21 Sep 2019)".

(This all is just what I do, others will do different things.  Try out a couple ways and see what works for you.)

For censuses especially, I highly recommend using the Form Addon.  It has a lot of Census forms already included which will make creating citations and events for censuses much easier.  It also allows you to add transcriptions of census fields and store those if you like.

Phil.
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Re: Help getting started with gramps?

GRAMPS - User mailing list
In reply to this post by Dalon Work
Dalon, 

One of the things that bit me when starting to use Gramps was sharing Events with the
the Clipboard. 

Share and share alike? Not really in Gramps.

Gramps automatically guesses an appropriate 'Role' attribute when an Event is created for a Person ('Primary' Role) or Family ('Family' Role).  The guessing works so smoothly that the Role becomes nearly invisible. 

There have been some heated discussions of the Role on this maillist. (As an example, there one back-and-forth over using the term 'Clergy' for a Role when referring to various Religious orders. And others about using Bride/Groom Roles. We eventually agreed/objected to disagree and be happy/grumpy that Gramps lets everyone do things their own way. You can find such threads in archives.) For the moment, the Role is still a somewhat glossed-over-stub in the wiki. Hot button topics may get short shrift in the wiki because the writers get chewed out so often.

What you NEED to realize is that the Role is reset to 'Unknown' when you share an Event using the Clipboard. (I made a serious mess by not being aware of that.) You MUST be very careful to choose a Role EVERY time you Drag'n'Drop an Event.

I was not even aware of the Role until noticing that some Births & Death dates weren't showing up for specific Persons... yet there were birth events listed under those Persons. Looking at the Event from that Category View gives no visibility to Roles of the References. (There REALLY needs to be a Roles column for the References tab in the Event editor. Especially since the Event Editor has different interface when opened from different Categories.) Digging revealed that the Roles are critical for Objects to be interpreted correctly for Reports. And make no mistake, the Views & Editors shown on screen ARE reports... but with some added interactive features for editing or navigation.

I would Share Births for twins & triplets, a frequent occurance in my heritage. (Some would argue that approach since birthing is sequential even for multiples. But I needed a way to track multiple births and make sure they didn't occur in different places. Okay, that MIGHT be possible if born in transit. But those unique statistical outliers are where I use Descriptions & Notes.) Death Events were Shared where several were killed in the same event.. examples are a family struck by a train or the sinking of their ship. Census events were shared for households. And Drag'n'Drop from the Clipboard smoked the Roles for all of these. 

Using the "Share an existing event" button is an alternative way to Share that guesses the Role using the new Event creation rules.  It is right most of the time too. ...but it has the advantage of foreknowledge that it would be adding an Event object and the Relationship level where it would be added. Still, the process of locating the Event is much more involved than simply re-selecting a Role. The Clipboard is still faster & easier.  

Merging adds its own set of ambiguity. 

The Role not even a visible Attribute in the Detailed Selection when Merging Events. Yet one Role will be lost in the process.

On the flip side, Merging Persons has a Secondary Object redundancy impact.

Note: I did not (and still do NOT) like the way I have to drill down to mentally collate the Notes, Sources, etc. for all Secondary Objects (attached Events) of a Person. Often, I could not find the Citation or Note yet that text was eerily familiar... because it was attached somewhere obscure, DEEP in the bowels of secondary objects. I found myself re-transcribing the same texts into Citation & Census Notes... over & over. So I started keeping Sources & Object Notes attached to the Primary Object (the Person) rather than the Secondary Object. (This is a BAD approach. Don't do it!) 

Deleting an Event suddenly had fewer repercussions and was less painful than finding the secondary objects for Merging. I began to delete duplicate Events after a merge.  (Also a BAD idea. However painfully, ambiguitites should be resolved and the resulting identicals should be Merged.)

Shortly after that I realized 'Deleting' objects did not actually delete. It just left floating debris in that Object type table. (Just like when any Events created if you abort creating a new Person. I've had too many Windows open and accidentally fat-fingered the button to close a Relationship in the midst of adding a New spouse. The Events are left in the netherworld because that closure aborts the spouse. Inverting the default Prefence to NOT Warn when canceling helps that particular problem.) So, I decided to start re-cycling rather than deleting.  (I didn't like actually deleting Objects anyway, it leaves a gap in the ID numbering sequence. And I'd admit to being a bit OCD... if those darn letters were in alphabetical order, the way they SHOULD be...) It was just SO painful to drill-down to clean and properly Merge all those redundant elements! But re-cycling in this way is yet another a BAD idea.

(When did the rest of us notice that when Merging Persons, that the Name NOT chosen is demoted and added to the the Alternate names... even if SUPERFICIALLY identical to the preferred Merge Name? Unfortunately that it DUPLICATED the 'Birth' type designation instead of demoting it to an 'Also Known As'. It was fairly visible that merging People often required painfully cleaning duplicate Events. The need to disambiguate Names and other Secondary Objects is far more subtle.)

We're spoiled by: Gramps knowing the standard Roles expected when Events & Persons are created in an existing Relationship; by gender guessing that is statistically aware of given names; and by Preferences that guess the surname as well as default relationship type.The downside is that the less we interact with these critical attributes, the more unfamiliar they become. Some remind us of the attribute by: dialogs that pop up (demanding a valid resolution to 'Unknown' gender or confirmation of 'Birth' parental relationships to a child) or by animatedly highlighting in Red (invalid dates). 

The takeaway is that the Roles inherently become ambiguous when Sharing and Merging Events. So we must manually resolve such ambiguity for Gramps to report them appropriately.

Eventually, Gramps will have a few additional management layers to simplify the Merge & Drag'n'Drop operations to force/highlight resolution (or acknowledgement) of the redundancies & ambiguities as they are created. For now, it means just a few more steps to include in your workflow.

-Brian


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Re: Help getting started with gramps?

Dave Scheipers
Hi Brian

Your post reminded me that PaulC wrote a filter rule to find people
with events with the role "Unknown". I had not transferred it into my
5.0 program files but went back to find it.  Found five people with
the issue.

The filter rule can be found attached to the post at

https://sourceforge.net/p/gramps/mailman/message/35917205/

The rule works in 5.1.1.  I manually altered the __init__ file. The
one Paul included in the post was for 4.2

Dave

On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 10:45 AM Emyoulation--- via Gramps-users
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Dalon,
>
> One of the things that bit me when starting to use Gramps was sharing Events with the
> the Clipboard.
>
> Share and share alike? Not really in Gramps.
>
> Gramps automatically guesses an appropriate 'Role' attribute when an Event is created for a Person ('Primary' Role) or Family ('Family' Role).  The guessing works so smoothly that the Role becomes nearly invisible.
>
> There have been some heated discussions of the Role on this maillist. (As an example, there one back-and-forth over using the term 'Clergy' for a Role when referring to various Religious orders. And others about using Bride/Groom Roles. We eventually agreed/objected to disagree and be happy/grumpy that Gramps lets everyone do things their own way. You can find such threads in archives.) For the moment, the Role is still a somewhat glossed-over-stub in the wiki. Hot button topics may get short shrift in the wiki because the writers get chewed out so often.
>
> What you NEED to realize is that the Role is reset to 'Unknown' when you share an Event using the Clipboard. (I made a serious mess by not being aware of that.) You MUST be very careful to choose a Role EVERY time you Drag'n'Drop an Event.
>
> I was not even aware of the Role until noticing that some Births & Death dates weren't showing up for specific Persons... yet there were birth events listed under those Persons. Looking at the Event from that Category View gives no visibility to Roles of the References. (There REALLY needs to be a Roles column for the References tab in the Event editor. Especially since the Event Editor has different interface when opened from different Categories.) Digging revealed that the Roles are critical for Objects to be interpreted correctly for Reports. And make no mistake, the Views & Editors shown on screen ARE reports... but with some added interactive features for editing or navigation.
>
> I would Share Births for twins & triplets, a frequent occurance in my heritage. (Some would argue that approach since birthing is sequential even for multiples. But I needed a way to track multiple births and make sure they didn't occur in different places. Okay, that MIGHT be possible if born in transit. But those unique statistical outliers are where I use Descriptions & Notes.) Death Events were Shared where several were killed in the same event.. examples are a family struck by a train or the sinking of their ship. Census events were shared for households. And Drag'n'Drop from the Clipboard smoked the Roles for all of these.
>
> Using the "Share an existing event" button is an alternative way to Share that guesses the Role using the new Event creation rules.  It is right most of the time too. ...but it has the advantage of foreknowledge that it would be adding an Event object and the Relationship level where it would be added. Still, the process of locating the Event is much more involved than simply re-selecting a Role. The Clipboard is still faster & easier.
>
> Merging adds its own set of ambiguity.
>
> The Role not even a visible Attribute in the Detailed Selection when Merging Events. Yet one Role will be lost in the process.
>
> On the flip side, Merging Persons has a Secondary Object redundancy impact.
>
> Note: I did not (and still do NOT) like the way I have to drill down to mentally collate the Notes, Sources, etc. for all Secondary Objects (attached Events) of a Person. Often, I could not find the Citation or Note yet that text was eerily familiar... because it was attached somewhere obscure, DEEP in the bowels of secondary objects. I found myself re-transcribing the same texts into Citation & Census Notes... over & over. So I started keeping Sources & Object Notes attached to the Primary Object (the Person) rather than the Secondary Object. (This is a BAD approach. Don't do it!)
>
> Deleting an Event suddenly had fewer repercussions and was less painful than finding the secondary objects for Merging. I began to delete duplicate Events after a merge.  (Also a BAD idea. However painfully, ambiguitites should be resolved and the resulting identicals should be Merged.)
>
> Shortly after that I realized 'Deleting' objects did not actually delete. It just left floating debris in that Object type table. (Just like when any Events created if you abort creating a new Person. I've had too many Windows open and accidentally fat-fingered the button to close a Relationship in the midst of adding a New spouse. The Events are left in the netherworld because that closure aborts the spouse. Inverting the default Prefence to NOT Warn when canceling helps that particular problem.) So, I decided to start re-cycling rather than deleting.  (I didn't like actually deleting Objects anyway, it leaves a gap in the ID numbering sequence. And I'd admit to being a bit OCD... if those darn letters were in alphabetical order, the way they SHOULD be...) It was just SO painful to drill-down to clean and properly Merge all those redundant elements! But re-cycling in this way is yet another a BAD idea.
>
> (When did the rest of us notice that when Merging Persons, that the Name NOT chosen is demoted and added to the the Alternate names... even if SUPERFICIALLY identical to the preferred Merge Name? Unfortunately that it DUPLICATED the 'Birth' type designation instead of demoting it to an 'Also Known As'. It was fairly visible that merging People often required painfully cleaning duplicate Events. The need to disambiguate Names and other Secondary Objects is far more subtle.)
>
> We're spoiled by: Gramps knowing the standard Roles expected when Events & Persons are created in an existing Relationship; by gender guessing that is statistically aware of given names; and by Preferences that guess the surname as well as default relationship type.The downside is that the less we interact with these critical attributes, the more unfamiliar they become. Some remind us of the attribute by: dialogs that pop up (demanding a valid resolution to 'Unknown' gender or confirmation of 'Birth' parental relationships to a child) or by animatedly highlighting in Red (invalid dates).
>
> The takeaway is that the Roles inherently become ambiguous when Sharing and Merging Events. So we must manually resolve such ambiguity for Gramps to report them appropriately.
>
> Eventually, Gramps will have a few additional management layers to simplify the Merge & Drag'n'Drop operations to force/highlight resolution (or acknowledgement) of the redundancies & ambiguities as they are created. For now, it means just a few more steps to include in your workflow.
>
> -Brian
>
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Re: Help getting started with gramps?

Dalon Work
In reply to this post by Dalon Work
Ron,

It is the attributes that I was missing. That is where I can put the structured information that I'm interested in saving. I mistakenly thought the prefilled list of attributes were my only options. Apparently I can add new ones!

Adding events as they are found from the sources makes sense as well.

Dalon

On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 11:23 PM Ron Johnson <[hidden email]> wrote:

Correct about hinting at a solution.

For example, in addition to the Census event, I create Occupation events and possibly Marriage (suddenly, John Smith has a wife Jane Smith and they've been married 8 years; better make a new Person object with Birth event, and a Marriage object with John Smith as husband and Jane as wife, with the Census citation attached to all of them) and Birth events (f nothing else, I might add this citation to the person's Birth event as more evidence of his age.

To the Census event, add Attributes for Property Value, Salary, etc.

On 9/22/19 8:55 PM, Dalon Work wrote:
Ron,

I didn't quite understand your reply to my transcribing question. When I asked if I put the information in a Note, it is because the note is not a structured format. The written information is in a structured format, and I was hoping for a way to mimic that. I assume your reply about Events/Attributes was hinting at a solution to that issue?

Thank you for the tips about the object sharing and the clipboard. I would not have understood the former at first, and I didn't know about the latter.

Thank you!

Dalon



On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 5:05 PM Ron Johnson <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 9/22/19 3:13 PM, Dalon Work wrote:
All,

I'm just getting started, and I like the look/feel of Gramps compared to the other linux-compatible software (I'm a linux guy, what can I say?), but I'm getting a little lost in how to use Gramps. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I'm a little confused about how to use the Sources in Gramps, specifically with regards to US Census Records. I've got an image of a page of the 1940 Census that I want to put into Gramps.
How do I go about doing that? The 1940 Census is huge. Not only that, I only care about a few lines of the page I have. Unless...I get more information from the 1940 Census for a different person. New page, new image. I can't have two people both reference "the 1940 census", can I? Do I just link multiple images to the generic "1940s Census" Source, and specialize it somehow in the Citation?

I like "fat" Sources (those that have *many* Citations under them).  For example:
Source:
    1940 US Federal Census

Citation:
    Atlanta Ward  1, Fulton County, GA / E.D. 016-16 or 160-16 / Sheet 10B
    Atlanta Ward  2, DeKalb County, GA / E.D. 160-281 / Sheet 8B
    Atlanta Ward  5, Fulton County, GA / E.D. 160-201 / Sheet 4B
    Atlanta Ward  6, Fulton County, GA / E.D. 160-268
    Atlanta, Fulton Co, GA / E.D. 160-180 / Sheet 13A / Lines 2-4
    Buffalo Ward 16, Erie County, NY / E.D. 64-344 / Sheet 2B
    Buffalo, Erie Co, NY / E.D. 64-186 / Sheet 1A / Lines 4-7
    Buffalo, Erie Co, NY / E.D. 64-262 / Sheet 5B / Lines 50-51

Others like "thin" Sources (few Citations per source).  For example:
Source:
    1940 US Federal Census - Atlanta, Fulton County, GA Ward 1
Citation:
    E.D. 016-16 or 160-16 / Sheet 10B

Source:
    1940 US Federal Census -
Atlanta, DeKalb County, GA Ward  2
Citation:

    E.D. 160-281 / Sheet 8B


Attach the page images to the citations.


What is the best way to transcribe the information I'm interested in? Do I put that in a Note?

Give us an example of what you're asking about, because typically it goes in Census, Occupation, Birth and Marriage Events (Attributes are useful).

Note 1: Family objects are only for marriage-related events (engagement, wedding, divorce, etc), not stuff that happens to the Family (births, deaths, Residence, etc.)  They go in Person objects.

Note 2: Take advantage of object sharing, which is a huge time saver.  Five people living in one house on the day the Census was taken should be one Event shared by all five people.

Note 3: The clipboard is your friend, but it doesn't work like the standard clipboard.  It's a scratchpad that you must manually open and then drag to and from.

Second question: What would be "the Repository" for this? FamilySearch, where I found the information? Or US Government? I'm not really certain.

The US National Archives.


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Re: Help getting started with gramps?

Elvin Birth
In reply to this post by Dalon Work
I expand the Source/Citation examples a bit by documenting the Gallery Image attached to a Citation. The lower panel of the Media Reference Editor window accepts Shared information where I enter Source of the Image as one of several Internet publishers, e. g., FamilySearch, and the Citation as the URL of the Image. I wish that panel had an Internet tab.

This frees the enclosing Source/Citation windows for documenting the information (as opposed to the Image) as "US (year) Census" or "Vital Records- (state)".

   


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Re: Help getting started with gramps?

Patrice Legoux
In reply to this post by Philip Weiss
The repository(s) would be where you have found pages used for that source.  It could be Ancestry.com, FamilySearch/FHL, the Internet Archive, or possibly even the National Archives at College Park if you went and viewed originals.  You can have multiple repositories for each source.  Unfortunately, there's not a built-in way to indicate which particular citations come from which repository. 

Another way: The title of the citations can reproduce the text used in the repository used in the source to describe the source's reference. It makes a cross reference between citations and repositories they came from. You can see it in this tweet (it's in French but Twitter will translate it for you):


Cheers,

Patrice

Le dim. 22 sept. 2019 à 22:51, Philip Weiss <[hidden email]> a écrit :
On Sep 22 2019, at 1:13 pm, Dalon Work <[hidden email]> wrote:

I'm a little confused about how to use the Sources in Gramps, specifically with regards to US Census Records. I've got an image of a page of the 1940 Census that I want to put into Gramps.
How do I go about doing that? The 1940 Census is huge. Not only that, I only care about a few lines of the page I have. Unless...I get more information from the 1940 Census for a different person. New page, new image. I can't have two people both reference "the 1940 census", can I? Do I just link multiple images to the generic "1940s Census" Source, and specialize it somehow in the Citation?
What is the best way to transcribe the information I'm interested in? Do I put that in a Note?

Second question: What would be "the Repository" for this? FamilySearch, where I found the information? Or US Government? I'm not really certain.

I have one source as "US, 1940 Census". I then have a citation for each family referenced in that census.  "Wisconsin, Dane County, Madison, district 34-15, sheet 8B, household 126, George Weiss" in the Page field of the citation.  I then attach an image of that page to the citation and draw a box around the particular family.  Another family would have a different citation with the particular information for that other family with a different image. in some cases I have two different families on the same page, so the same image gets attached to different citations.

You could  create a separate source for each page and have only one citation for it, but then you are going to have a lot  of sources for the 1940 census and they won't be tied together even though they are conceptually  connected. 

The repository(s) would be where you have found pages used for that source.  It could be Ancestry.com, FamilySearch/FHL, the Internet Archive, or possibly even the National Archives at College Park if you went and viewed originals.  You can have multiple repositories for each source.  Unfortunately, there's not a built-in way to indicate which particular citations come from which repository.  You can do that through a note, tags, or additional text in the Page field.  Or if you really want, create one source called "US, 1940 Census (Ancestry.com)" only for census images from Ancestry and one called "US, 1940 Census (FamilySearch)" for ones from there.  I did that for a while before I decided it wasn't helping me and so I merged my two 1940 census sources.  Personally, I used the Page field to indicate which repository held the particular image I used. So my Page field in the citation reads something like "Wisconsin, Dane County, Madison, district 34-15, sheet 8B, household 126, George Weiss (https://www.ancestry.com/ : downloaded 21 Sep 2019)".

(This all is just what I do, others will do different things.  Try out a couple ways and see what works for you.)

For censuses especially, I highly recommend using the Form Addon.  It has a lot of Census forms already included which will make creating citations and events for censuses much easier.  It also allows you to add transcriptions of census fields and store those if you like.

Phil.
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Gramps-users mailing list
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https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
https://gramps-project.org