How to organize persons with two "birth dates"?

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How to organize persons with two "birth dates"?

Renato Panda
Hi everyone,

I'm using Gramps 3.4.7 under Win7 and so far without problems. Still, I've found one or two awkward situations where some relatives have two distinct dates of birth. Is there a way to save both? What is the common setup in these situations?

A brief example, I've get a living relative who was born in December, but was only registered officially in April of the following year. He celebrates his birthday in the first date but any official documents have the second one - the one i'm using in gramps.

This is not that rare for older people of isolated places and was wondering how other gramps users tackle the situation.

Cheers,
Renato

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Re: How to organize persons with two "birth dates"?

ACProctor
The date that a birth was registered is largely irrelevant, except insomuch as it comes after the event and can be used to put limits on the birth date if unknown. Ignoring the registration date, though, are you saying, Renato, that the eventual birth registration includes a birth date that was later than his real birth date? Was that to avoid prosecution for not completing it earlier?
 
    Tony Proctor
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2014 2:32 PM
Subject: [Gramps-users] How to organize persons with two "birth dates"?

Hi everyone,

I'm using Gramps 3.4.7 under Win7 and so far without problems. Still, I've found one or two awkward situations where some relatives have two distinct dates of birth. Is there a way to save both? What is the common setup in these situations?

A brief example, I've get a living relative who was born in December, but was only registered officially in April of the following year. He celebrates his birthday in the first date but any official documents have the second one - the one i'm using in gramps.

This is not that rare for older people of isolated places and was wondering how other gramps users tackle the situation.

Cheers,
Renato


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Re: How to organize persons with two "birth dates"?

enno
In reply to this post by Renato Panda
Hi Renato,
> I'm using Gramps 3.4.7 under Win7 and so far without problems. Still,
> I've found one or two awkward situations where some relatives have two
> distinct dates of birth. Is there a way to save both? What is the
> common setup in these situations?
>
> A brief example, I've get a living relative who was born in December,
> but was only registered officially in April of the following year. He
> celebrates his birthday in the first date but any official documents
> have the second one - the one i'm using in gramps.
If you want, you can simply add another birth event in Gramps, and use
the description field to mark one as the real one, and the other as
'official'. I do similar things to distinguish between civil marriages,
and marriages in church.

There may be one disadvantage with this, and that is that many other
programs and sites are not very happy with such duplicate events, and
only import or display one. If that applies to you, it may help to add a
note to the person himself, to make sure that the information comes
through anyway.

regards,

Enno


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Re: How to organize persons with two "birth dates"?

Isaac Bennetch
In reply to this post by Renato Panda
Hi,

On 4/1/14 9:32 AM, Renato Panda wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> I'm using Gramps 3.4.7 under Win7 and so far without problems. Still,
> I've found one or two awkward situations where some relatives have two
> distinct dates of birth. Is there a way to save both? What is the common
> setup in these situations?
>
> A brief example, I've get a living relative who was born in December,
> but was only registered officially in April of the following year. He
> celebrates his birthday in the first date but any official documents
> have the second one - the one i'm using in gramps.
>
> This is not that rare for older people of isolated places and was
> wondering how other gramps users tackle the situation.

I just put it in twice (as in, two different Birth events), with proper
citations and a note explaining further if I have any additional
information. I haven't yet come across a situation where this causes
major problems (things like age calculations won't say "59 or 48 years
old", but I consider that a minor inconvenience). I haven't paid
attention to what happens when I run reports and of course now I can't
find any of those people to check, but as far as entering data and
routine work in the program, I haven't had a bit of trouble with this
method.

Whether this is the officially sanctioned action (or what happens in
GEDCOM exports), I can't say, but it's worked fine for me.

Not sure if this helps at all, but good luck
~isaac

> Cheers,
> Renato


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Re: How to organize persons with two "birth dates"?

Renato Panda
In reply to this post by ACProctor
Hi Tony,

Exactly that, and I'm not even talking about really old people here. I have a few cases of this right around 1950 and 1960.

As far as I know, people have a one month period to register the newborn child without paying an additional fee or having some type of prosecution. Some relatives, living in isolated areas, were registered with an "official birthday" that was false, in order to avoid this. Parents would say the child was born in the same day or a week before. That's why there seems to be a lot more births around market days and other events 8-)

So, if I have a relative which, according to his parents, was born at December 20th, but officially only at March 15th, registered a week later, how should I organize it?

I agree that the real date should be the one in use, however I'm currently using his official one since that's is more useful when requestion documents. After all, that's the date present in his ID card/docs.

Any easy way to cope with this, saving both?

Cheers


On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 2:43 PM, Tony Proctor <[hidden email]> wrote:
The date that a birth was registered is largely irrelevant, except insomuch as it comes after the event and can be used to put limits on the birth date if unknown. Ignoring the registration date, though, are you saying, Renato, that the eventual birth registration includes a birth date that was later than his real birth date? Was that to avoid prosecution for not completing it earlier?
 
    Tony Proctor
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2014 2:32 PM
Subject: [Gramps-users] How to organize persons with two "birth dates"?

Hi everyone,

I'm using Gramps 3.4.7 under Win7 and so far without problems. Still, I've found one or two awkward situations where some relatives have two distinct dates of birth. Is there a way to save both? What is the common setup in these situations?

A brief example, I've get a living relative who was born in December, but was only registered officially in April of the following year. He celebrates his birthday in the first date but any official documents have the second one - the one i'm using in gramps.

This is not that rare for older people of isolated places and was wondering how other gramps users tackle the situation.

Cheers,
Renato


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Re: How to organize persons with two "birth dates"?

ACProctor
The Queen of England has a real birthday and an official one  :-)
 
I would use a different event type for the fake date-of-birth. Do you have any sources that support the real birth date? If so then you'd have sources that supported each of the two events, and they could be attached as appropriate. After all, that was the real-life situation (i.e. 2 distinct events).
 
    Tony Proctor
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2014 2:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] How to organize persons with two "birth dates"?

Hi Tony,

Exactly that, and I'm not even talking about really old people here. I have a few cases of this right around 1950 and 1960.

As far as I know, people have a one month period to register the newborn child without paying an additional fee or having some type of prosecution. Some relatives, living in isolated areas, were registered with an "official birthday" that was false, in order to avoid this. Parents would say the child was born in the same day or a week before. That's why there seems to be a lot more births around market days and other events 8-)

So, if I have a relative which, according to his parents, was born at December 20th, but officially only at March 15th, registered a week later, how should I organize it?

I agree that the real date should be the one in use, however I'm currently using his official one since that's is more useful when requestion documents. After all, that's the date present in his ID card/docs.

Any easy way to cope with this, saving both?

Cheers


On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 2:43 PM, Tony Proctor <[hidden email]> wrote:
The date that a birth was registered is largely irrelevant, except insomuch as it comes after the event and can be used to put limits on the birth date if unknown. Ignoring the registration date, though, are you saying, Renato, that the eventual birth registration includes a birth date that was later than his real birth date? Was that to avoid prosecution for not completing it earlier?
 
    Tony Proctor
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2014 2:32 PM
Subject: [Gramps-users] How to organize persons with two "birth dates"?

Hi everyone,

I'm using Gramps 3.4.7 under Win7 and so far without problems. Still, I've found one or two awkward situations where some relatives have two distinct dates of birth. Is there a way to save both? What is the common setup in these situations?

A brief example, I've get a living relative who was born in December, but was only registered officially in April of the following year. He celebrates his birthday in the first date but any official documents have the second one - the one i'm using in gramps.

This is not that rare for older people of isolated places and was wondering how other gramps users tackle the situation.

Cheers,
Renato


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Re: How to organize persons with two "birth dates"?

Renato Panda
Thanks all for the feedback.

I guess I will go with one of the following two options:
a) two birth events with different dates
b) a birth event for the real date and another custom named "registration?" even for the official date.

Are there any pros and cons I should consider? Like GEDCOM export and other issues. I'm tending to the second idea.


Most if not all my written sources in these cases point out the second date, since it is the official. I suppose that, for some cases, the first date might be available in the baptism records, since parents would baptise their child as soon as possible. However I don't possess any of these yet - and it seems they also lived far from the nearest church so they might also have the official date.

For older records there is no such problem, I only have Church records and no living person to confirm that the dates I have are not the real ones anyway :-)

Cheers!


On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 3:12 PM, Tony Proctor <[hidden email]> wrote:
The Queen of England has a real birthday and an official one  :-)
 
I would use a different event type for the fake date-of-birth. Do you have any sources that support the real birth date? If so then you'd have sources that supported each of the two events, and they could be attached as appropriate. After all, that was the real-life situation (i.e. 2 distinct events).
 
    Tony Proctor
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2014 2:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] How to organize persons with two "birth dates"?

Hi Tony,

Exactly that, and I'm not even talking about really old people here. I have a few cases of this right around 1950 and 1960.

As far as I know, people have a one month period to register the newborn child without paying an additional fee or having some type of prosecution. Some relatives, living in isolated areas, were registered with an "official birthday" that was false, in order to avoid this. Parents would say the child was born in the same day or a week before. That's why there seems to be a lot more births around market days and other events 8-)

So, if I have a relative which, according to his parents, was born at December 20th, but officially only at March 15th, registered a week later, how should I organize it?

I agree that the real date should be the one in use, however I'm currently using his official one since that's is more useful when requestion documents. After all, that's the date present in his ID card/docs.

Any easy way to cope with this, saving both?

Cheers


On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 2:43 PM, Tony Proctor <[hidden email]> wrote:
The date that a birth was registered is largely irrelevant, except insomuch as it comes after the event and can be used to put limits on the birth date if unknown. Ignoring the registration date, though, are you saying, Renato, that the eventual birth registration includes a birth date that was later than his real birth date? Was that to avoid prosecution for not completing it earlier?
 
    Tony Proctor
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2014 2:32 PM
Subject: [Gramps-users] How to organize persons with two "birth dates"?

Hi everyone,

I'm using Gramps 3.4.7 under Win7 and so far without problems. Still, I've found one or two awkward situations where some relatives have two distinct dates of birth. Is there a way to save both? What is the common setup in these situations?

A brief example, I've get a living relative who was born in December, but was only registered officially in April of the following year. He celebrates his birthday in the first date but any official documents have the second one - the one i'm using in gramps.

This is not that rare for older people of isolated places and was wondering how other gramps users tackle the situation.

Cheers,
Renato


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Re: How to organize persons with two "birth dates"?

enno
Hello Renato,
> Thanks all for the feedback.
>
> I guess I will go with one of the following two options:
> a) two birth events with different dates
> b) a birth event for the real date and another custom named
> "registration?" even for the official date.
>
> Are there any pros and cons I should consider? Like GEDCOM export and
> other issues. I'm tending to the second idea.
I prefer A, because custom events don't export nice, and inside Gramps,
you can immediately see the description that you can add to distinguish
between the two. I think that the description shows in reports too, if
they are important to you. I also cannot find an existing event type for
anything registration like.

As noted before, duplicate births may be a problem elsewhere too, so ...
it's still up to you. :-)

cheers,

Enno


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Re: How to organize persons with two "birth dates"?

ACProctor
In reply to this post by Renato Panda
In actual fact, there are 3 events Renato:
 
a) real birth
b) fake birth
c) registration of birth
 
Even though the (fake-)birth and the registration are close, they're not the same event, and the registration could appear in the next quarter, or even the next year, without being far removed from it. A classic example of a far removed registration is that of a death when there was an inquest. I have an example here where the registration event was near a full year after the actual death occurred.
 
    Tony Proctor
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2014 3:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] How to organize persons with two "birth dates"?

Thanks all for the feedback.

I guess I will go with one of the following two options:
a) two birth events with different dates
b) a birth event for the real date and another custom named "registration?" even for the official date.

Are there any pros and cons I should consider? Like GEDCOM export and other issues. I'm tending to the second idea.


Most if not all my written sources in these cases point out the second date, since it is the official. I suppose that, for some cases, the first date might be available in the baptism records, since parents would baptise their child as soon as possible. However I don't possess any of these yet - and it seems they also lived far from the nearest church so they might also have the official date.

For older records there is no such problem, I only have Church records and no living person to confirm that the dates I have are not the real ones anyway :-)

Cheers!


On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 3:12 PM, Tony Proctor <[hidden email]> wrote:
The Queen of England has a real birthday and an official one  :-)
 
I would use a different event type for the fake date-of-birth. Do you have any sources that support the real birth date? If so then you'd have sources that supported each of the two events, and they could be attached as appropriate. After all, that was the real-life situation (i.e. 2 distinct events).
 
    Tony Proctor
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2014 2:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] How to organize persons with two "birth dates"?

Hi Tony,

Exactly that, and I'm not even talking about really old people here. I have a few cases of this right around 1950 and 1960.

As far as I know, people have a one month period to register the newborn child without paying an additional fee or having some type of prosecution. Some relatives, living in isolated areas, were registered with an "official birthday" that was false, in order to avoid this. Parents would say the child was born in the same day or a week before. That's why there seems to be a lot more births around market days and other events 8-)

So, if I have a relative which, according to his parents, was born at December 20th, but officially only at March 15th, registered a week later, how should I organize it?

I agree that the real date should be the one in use, however I'm currently using his official one since that's is more useful when requestion documents. After all, that's the date present in his ID card/docs.

Any easy way to cope with this, saving both?

Cheers


On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 2:43 PM, Tony Proctor <[hidden email]> wrote:
The date that a birth was registered is largely irrelevant, except insomuch as it comes after the event and can be used to put limits on the birth date if unknown. Ignoring the registration date, though, are you saying, Renato, that the eventual birth registration includes a birth date that was later than his real birth date? Was that to avoid prosecution for not completing it earlier?
 
    Tony Proctor
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2014 2:32 PM
Subject: [Gramps-users] How to organize persons with two "birth dates"?

Hi everyone,

I'm using Gramps 3.4.7 under Win7 and so far without problems. Still, I've found one or two awkward situations where some relatives have two distinct dates of birth. Is there a way to save both? What is the common setup in these situations?

A brief example, I've get a living relative who was born in December, but was only registered officially in April of the following year. He celebrates his birthday in the first date but any official documents have the second one - the one i'm using in gramps.

This is not that rare for older people of isolated places and was wondering how other gramps users tackle the situation.

Cheers,
Renato


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Re: How to organize persons with two "birth dates"?

Michael Skiba
In reply to this post by Renato Panda
Hi there,

I see that it might be a little bit awkward when the relatives are still
living. But I would treat the official record as the main birth event (since
that's what you'll get in all the official documents). And merely attache a
note to the person/event stating that his real birthday was earlier.

That way you can avoid problems with duplicate events when you export your
data to another software.

--
Kind Regards,
Michael

Am Dienstag, 1. April 2014, 14:32:41 schrieb Renato Panda:

> Hi everyone,
>
> I'm using Gramps 3.4.7 under Win7 and so far without problems. Still, I've
> found one or two awkward situations where some relatives have two distinct
> dates of birth. Is there a way to save both? What is the common setup in
> these situations?
>
> A brief example, I've get a living relative who was born in December, but
> was only registered officially in April of the following year. He
> celebrates his birthday in the first date but any official documents have
> the second one - the one i'm using in gramps.
>
> This is not that rare for older people of isolated places and was wondering
> how other gramps users tackle the situation.
>
> Cheers,
> Renato
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Re: How to organize persons with two "birth dates"?

Renato Panda
In reply to this post by ACProctor
Indeed, seeing it that way, I have 3 distinct events for people after 1911 in my trees.

So, if the better solution is to avoid custom events and use two birth events, what kind of event do you recommend for "registration", Tony?

In practice, for older (pre 1911) persons, I've been adding birth and baptism events (state registration became mandatory only in 1911, before that we only have church records). Between 1911 and 1960 I might end up with 2 birth events, plus one about registration and other about baptism - even thought that for now I only know the real birthday for 3 or 4 living persons which happen to know that, since there are no written reports to support it. I actually know a case of a person which was registered and officially born almost one year later than the real date. He was able to prove that in order to retire earlier / at the correct date :-)

Cheers


On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 9:03 AM, Tony Proctor <[hidden email]> wrote:
In actual fact, there are 3 events Renato:
 
a) real birth
b) fake birth
c) registration of birth
 
Even though the (fake-)birth and the registration are close, they're not the same event, and the registration could appear in the next quarter, or even the next year, without being far removed from it. A classic example of a far removed registration is that of a death when there was an inquest. I have an example here where the registration event was near a full year after the actual death occurred.
 
    Tony Proctor
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2014 3:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] How to organize persons with two "birth dates"?

Thanks all for the feedback.

I guess I will go with one of the following two options:
a) two birth events with different dates
b) a birth event for the real date and another custom named "registration?" even for the official date.

Are there any pros and cons I should consider? Like GEDCOM export and other issues. I'm tending to the second idea.


Most if not all my written sources in these cases point out the second date, since it is the official. I suppose that, for some cases, the first date might be available in the baptism records, since parents would baptise their child as soon as possible. However I don't possess any of these yet - and it seems they also lived far from the nearest church so they might also have the official date.

For older records there is no such problem, I only have Church records and no living person to confirm that the dates I have are not the real ones anyway :-)

Cheers!


On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 3:12 PM, Tony Proctor <[hidden email]> wrote:
The Queen of England has a real birthday and an official one  :-)
 
I would use a different event type for the fake date-of-birth. Do you have any sources that support the real birth date? If so then you'd have sources that supported each of the two events, and they could be attached as appropriate. After all, that was the real-life situation (i.e. 2 distinct events).
 
    Tony Proctor
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2014 2:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] How to organize persons with two "birth dates"?

Hi Tony,

Exactly that, and I'm not even talking about really old people here. I have a few cases of this right around 1950 and 1960.

As far as I know, people have a one month period to register the newborn child without paying an additional fee or having some type of prosecution. Some relatives, living in isolated areas, were registered with an "official birthday" that was false, in order to avoid this. Parents would say the child was born in the same day or a week before. That's why there seems to be a lot more births around market days and other events 8-)

So, if I have a relative which, according to his parents, was born at December 20th, but officially only at March 15th, registered a week later, how should I organize it?

I agree that the real date should be the one in use, however I'm currently using his official one since that's is more useful when requestion documents. After all, that's the date present in his ID card/docs.

Any easy way to cope with this, saving both?

Cheers


On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 2:43 PM, Tony Proctor <[hidden email]> wrote:
The date that a birth was registered is largely irrelevant, except insomuch as it comes after the event and can be used to put limits on the birth date if unknown. Ignoring the registration date, though, are you saying, Renato, that the eventual birth registration includes a birth date that was later than his real birth date? Was that to avoid prosecution for not completing it earlier?
 
    Tony Proctor
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2014 2:32 PM
Subject: [Gramps-users] How to organize persons with two "birth dates"?

Hi everyone,

I'm using Gramps 3.4.7 under Win7 and so far without problems. Still, I've found one or two awkward situations where some relatives have two distinct dates of birth. Is there a way to save both? What is the common setup in these situations?

A brief example, I've get a living relative who was born in December, but was only registered officially in April of the following year. He celebrates his birthday in the first date but any official documents have the second one - the one i'm using in gramps.

This is not that rare for older people of isolated places and was wondering how other gramps users tackle the situation.

Cheers,
Renato


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Re: How to organize persons with two "birth dates"?

ACProctor
Ah, you've got me there Renato. This is a Gramps thread so I have to defer to someone like Enno who knows more about what Gramps can and can't do. In an ideal world, there would be event-types for such a registration, and a workable way of adding custom event-types for the fake birth. This is all something I'm working on but independently of Gramps.
 
    Tony Proctor
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2014 11:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] How to organize persons with two "birth dates"?

Indeed, seeing it that way, I have 3 distinct events for people after 1911 in my trees.

So, if the better solution is to avoid custom events and use two birth events, what kind of event do you recommend for "registration", Tony?

In practice, for older (pre 1911) persons, I've been adding birth and baptism events (state registration became mandatory only in 1911, before that we only have church records). Between 1911 and 1960 I might end up with 2 birth events, plus one about registration and other about baptism - even thought that for now I only know the real birthday for 3 or 4 living persons which happen to know that, since there are no written reports to support it. I actually know a case of a person which was registered and officially born almost one year later than the real date. He was able to prove that in order to retire earlier / at the correct date :-)

Cheers


On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 9:03 AM, Tony Proctor <[hidden email]> wrote:
In actual fact, there are 3 events Renato:
 
a) real birth
b) fake birth
c) registration of birth
 
Even though the (fake-)birth and the registration are close, they're not the same event, and the registration could appear in the next quarter, or even the next year, without being far removed from it. A classic example of a far removed registration is that of a death when there was an inquest. I have an example here where the registration event was near a full year after the actual death occurred.
 
    Tony Proctor
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2014 3:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] How to organize persons with two "birth dates"?

Thanks all for the feedback.

I guess I will go with one of the following two options:
a) two birth events with different dates
b) a birth event for the real date and another custom named "registration?" even for the official date.

Are there any pros and cons I should consider? Like GEDCOM export and other issues. I'm tending to the second idea.


Most if not all my written sources in these cases point out the second date, since it is the official. I suppose that, for some cases, the first date might be available in the baptism records, since parents would baptise their child as soon as possible. However I don't possess any of these yet - and it seems they also lived far from the nearest church so they might also have the official date.

For older records there is no such problem, I only have Church records and no living person to confirm that the dates I have are not the real ones anyway :-)

Cheers!


On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 3:12 PM, Tony Proctor <[hidden email]> wrote:
The Queen of England has a real birthday and an official one  :-)
 
I would use a different event type for the fake date-of-birth. Do you have any sources that support the real birth date? If so then you'd have sources that supported each of the two events, and they could be attached as appropriate. After all, that was the real-life situation (i.e. 2 distinct events).
 
    Tony Proctor
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2014 2:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] How to organize persons with two "birth dates"?

Hi Tony,

Exactly that, and I'm not even talking about really old people here. I have a few cases of this right around 1950 and 1960.

As far as I know, people have a one month period to register the newborn child without paying an additional fee or having some type of prosecution. Some relatives, living in isolated areas, were registered with an "official birthday" that was false, in order to avoid this. Parents would say the child was born in the same day or a week before. That's why there seems to be a lot more births around market days and other events 8-)

So, if I have a relative which, according to his parents, was born at December 20th, but officially only at March 15th, registered a week later, how should I organize it?

I agree that the real date should be the one in use, however I'm currently using his official one since that's is more useful when requestion documents. After all, that's the date present in his ID card/docs.

Any easy way to cope with this, saving both?

Cheers


On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 2:43 PM, Tony Proctor <[hidden email]> wrote:
The date that a birth was registered is largely irrelevant, except insomuch as it comes after the event and can be used to put limits on the birth date if unknown. Ignoring the registration date, though, are you saying, Renato, that the eventual birth registration includes a birth date that was later than his real birth date? Was that to avoid prosecution for not completing it earlier?
 
    Tony Proctor
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2014 2:32 PM
Subject: [Gramps-users] How to organize persons with two "birth dates"?

Hi everyone,

I'm using Gramps 3.4.7 under Win7 and so far without problems. Still, I've found one or two awkward situations where some relatives have two distinct dates of birth. Is there a way to save both? What is the common setup in these situations?

A brief example, I've get a living relative who was born in December, but was only registered officially in April of the following year. He celebrates his birthday in the first date but any official documents have the second one - the one i'm using in gramps.

This is not that rare for older people of isolated places and was wondering how other gramps users tackle the situation.

Cheers,
Renato


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Re: How to organize persons with two "birth dates"?

Brad Rogers
In reply to this post by Renato Panda
On Wed, 2 Apr 2014 11:42:05 +0100
Renato Panda <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello Renato,

>So, if the better solution is to avoid custom events and use two birth
>events, what kind of event do you recommend for "registration", Tony?

I use the citation for that.  There are spaces for date, ID and Vol/Page.

I let Gramps assign the ID, the entry in Volume/Page depends on what the
source is;  GRO reference for BMD certs acquired from them, or the Page
and Entry number for details from a Parish Register, for example.

Finally, the date I enter is the date of registration, taken from the
certificate, or whatever.  In the event of a birth or death, it's likely
to be a different date from the date of the event.  If the event is
baptism, marriage, burial, etc. the registration date is likely to be
the same as the date of the event.

For this use case, I'd /still/ only list the one event (Birth), but use
the _actual_ date as the DoB with the registration's DoB recorded as a
note and the date of registration in the Citation's date field.

So, I don't use a separate Event for registration of BMD, etc.  In many
ways it can be considered an event in its own right but, in reality,
it's just an official verification of an event that's already occurred.

--
 Regards  _
         / )           "The blindingly obvious is
        / _)rad        never immediately apparent"
You suck my blood like a leech
Death On Two Legs - Queen

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Re: How to organize persons with two "birth dates"?

enno
In reply to this post by ACProctor
Tony, Renato,
Ah, you've got me there Renato. This is a Gramps thread so I have to defer to someone like Enno who knows more about what Gramps can and can't do. In an ideal world, there would be event-types for such a registration, and a workable way of adding custom event-types for the fake birth. This is all something I'm working on but independently of Gramps.
In the Gramps/GEDCOM world the answer is easy. The registration is the creation of a birth record, and if you store that right, the registration date is the citation date.
 
cheers,
 
Enno
 

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Re: How to organize persons with two "birth dates"?

paul womack
In reply to this post by Renato Panda
Renato Panda wrote:
> Indeed, seeing it that way, I have 3 distinct events for people after 1911 in my trees.
>
> So, if the better solution is to avoid custom events and use two birth events, what kind of event do you recommend for "registration", Tony?
>
> In practice, for older (pre 1911) persons, I've been adding birth and baptism events (state registration became mandatory only in 1911, before that we only have church records). Between 1911 and 1960 I might end up with 2 birth events, plus one about registration and other about baptism - even thought that for now I only know the real birthday for 3 or 4 living persons which happen to know that, since there are no written reports to support it. I actually know a case of a person which was
> registered and officially born almost one year later than the real date. He was able to prove that in order to retire earlier / at the correct date :-)

I would have no particular qualms about custom events - GEDCOM supports them, after all,
via the "Event" event (!!!) which has a sub-tag of "Type" (whereas for most events
the "Type" is implcit in the event name).

In your case, I would use a Baptism event for baptisms - in particular the
Gramps GUI will use this as a substitute for date of birth if no Birth event is present,
which is useful.

I would use a single Birth event, corresponding as closely as possible to
the date of birth (biologically speaking). The other things you mention
("official" birth and registration of birth), I would record
as generic (or custom, same thing) events.

   BugBear

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