How to remove a duplicate item in a menu list?

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How to remove a duplicate item in a menu list?

Alain Pastor
Hello everybody,

I’m using Gramps 4.2.8 running on an iMac with macOS X 10.12.6 (Sierra)
(French system).
In the dialog window for editing places, there is a popup menu allowing
the user to choose an item from a list of place types. Now, I would like
to get rid of a duplicate item in that list. Namely "Ville" appears
twice (this should translate to City or Town in English, I guess). I
probably entered that item via the keyboard at some time, thinking
Gramps could figure out that it was already existing in the list.

Does somebody know how I can remove the duplicate entry?

Thanks in advance.

Alain Pastor


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Re: How to remove a duplicate item in a menu list?

Brad Rogers
On Thu, 21 Jun 2018 19:50:07 +0200
Alain Pastor <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello Alain,

>Does somebody know how I can remove the duplicate entry?

Export db to a gramps XML backup, close and restart Gramps, create new
database, import XML file, delete old database, rename new database.

It sucks, I know, but it's the only way.

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Re: How to remove a duplicate item in a menu list?

Brad Rogers
In reply to this post by Alain Pastor
On Thu, 21 Jun 2018 19:50:07 +0200
Alain Pastor <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello Alain,

>Does somebody know how I can remove the duplicate entry?

Ooops! Fired off previous reply too quickly;

I should have mentioned that you have to make sure that everything is
using the _same_ Ville entry before exporting.

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Re: How to remove a duplicate item in a menu list?

Dave Scheipers
In reply to this post by Alain Pastor
Hi Alain

Step one is to make sure that no place record is using that place type.

Step two is to do a .gramps (xml) backup of the complete database.

Step three is to create a new empty database and import the backup.
The Place type should be removed.

This also works for other custom items that get added, Events,
Participant roles, etc. Once you get the new database up and running,
do not forget to delete the old database.

HTH, Dave

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 1:50 PM, Alain Pastor <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello everybody,
>
> I’m using Gramps 4.2.8 running on an iMac with macOS X 10.12.6 (Sierra)
> (French system).
> In the dialog window for editing places, there is a popup menu allowing the
> user to choose an item from a list of place types. Now, I would like to get
> rid of a duplicate item in that list. Namely "Ville" appears twice (this
> should translate to City or Town in English, I guess). I probably entered
> that item via the keyboard at some time, thinking Gramps could figure out
> that it was already existing in the list.
>
> Does somebody know how I can remove the duplicate entry?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Alain Pastor
>
>
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> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Re: How to remove a duplicate item in a menu list?

enno
In reply to this post by Alain Pastor
Hello Alain,

> I’m using Gramps 4.2.8 running on an iMac with macOS X 10.12.6
> (Sierra) (French system).
> In the dialog window for editing places, there is a popup menu
> allowing the user to choose an item from a list of place types. Now, I
> would like to get rid of a duplicate item in that list. Namely "Ville"
> appears twice (this should translate to City or Town in English, I
> guess). I probably entered that item via the keyboard at some time,
> thinking Gramps could figure out that it was already existing in the
> list.
>
> Does somebody know how I can remove the duplicate entry?
You can't. I have the same problem in the Dutch version, where Dorp
appears twice, and this is because there are more built-in place types
in the new Gramps than my language can handle. We have Dorp (Village)
and Stad (City), and all other built-in types, like Town, lead to
duplicates, or funny constructs like 'Dorp of Stad'. I have similar
problems with States and Provinces.

I think that we need a system that is more flexible, so that I can see
the types that I need, and those types don't just depend on my language,
but also on the locations of our relatives. With that, I mean that
although most live(d) in The Netherlands, I do need to record place
types for other countries too sometimes, so that I can use State for US
relatives, Province for Dutch and Canadian, Land for German, Departement
for French, and Dutch under French rule, etc. etc.

Without these, Gramps 4.2 is too confusing for me.

Regards,

Enno


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Re: How to remove a duplicate item in a menu list?

Alain Pastor
In reply to this post by Dave Scheipers
Many thanks to Brad, Dave and Enno for your prompt reply.

Indeed, the fix is not that much cool. Anyway the database can be fixed
and that’s good to know. Since I can live with that little glitch, I’ll
surely proceed like you have said once I am finished with the few
sources I’m dealing with at the moment.

Cheers,

Alain Pastor

Le 21/06/2018 à 20:20, Dave Scheipers a écrit :

> Hi Alain
>
> Step one is to make sure that no place record is using that place type.
>
> Step two is to do a .gramps (xml) backup of the complete database.
>
> Step three is to create a new empty database and import the backup.
> The Place type should be removed.
>
> This also works for other custom items that get added, Events,
> Participant roles, etc. Once you get the new database up and running,
> do not forget to delete the old database.
>
> HTH, Dave
>
> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 1:50 PM, Alain Pastor <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hello everybody,
>>
>> I’m using Gramps 4.2.8 running on an iMac with macOS X 10.12.6 (Sierra)
>> (French system).
>> In the dialog window for editing places, there is a popup menu allowing the
>> user to choose an item from a list of place types. Now, I would like to get
>> rid of a duplicate item in that list. Namely "Ville" appears twice (this
>> should translate to City or Town in English, I guess). I probably entered
>> that item via the keyboard at some time, thinking Gramps could figure out
>> that it was already existing in the list.
>>
>> Does somebody know how I can remove the duplicate entry?
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>> Alain Pastor
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Re: How to remove a duplicate item in a menu list?

enno
In reply to this post by Brad Rogers
Op 21-06-18 om 20:09 schreef Brad Rogers:

> On Thu, 21 Jun 2018 19:50:07 +0200
> Alain Pastor <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hello Alain,
>
>> Does somebody know how I can remove the duplicate entry?
> Export db to a gramps XML backup, close and restart Gramps, create new
> database, import XML file, delete old database, rename new database.
>
> It sucks, I know, but it's the only way.
And I bet that it won't work. It's a language problem that most English
users don't see, because they're not aware of how Gramps is translated.

Gramps' built-in place types include City, Town, and Village, and for
those 3 different words, my language has only 2 translations, so in my
Gramps 4.2.8, the word Dorp appears twice. And this is even so when I
try to create a place in a new empty database.

Importing files into a new database can help to forget custom types that
were remembered in the context of a particular tree, but Ville is most
probably not a custom type, so I bet that it will re-appear in the new
database anyway, just like Dorp does here.

This is one of the reasons why I stick with Gramps 3.4. And as a
developer, I really think that we must take care of this, and
acknowledge that users have a right to see a clear UI, which in this
case means that we must always present distinct types, and titles, to
avoid confusion.

Cheers,

Enno


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Re: How to remove a duplicate item in a menu list?

Brad Rogers
On Fri, 22 Jun 2018 21:04:05 +0200
Enno Borgsteede <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello Enno,

>Gramps' built-in place types include City, Town, and Village, and for
>those 3 different words, my language has only 2 translations, so in my
>Gramps 4.2.8, the word Dorp appears twice. And this is even so when I
>try to create a place in a new empty database.

Agreed; no amount of exporting and importing would work under such
circumstances.

As you say, not being aware of the double Dorp in your tongue, or
possibly double Ville in Alain's language may have led to bad advice.

>Importing files into a new database can help to forget custom types
>that were remembered in the context of a particular tree, but Ville is
>most probably not a custom type, so I bet that it will re-appear in the

Alain said he probably typed it in.  However, if he *didn't* type it in
and there are two standard Types of that name, well, see above.   :-(

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Re: How to remove a duplicate item in a menu list?

Alain Pastor
Le 22/06/2018 à 23:41, Brad Rogers a écrit :

> On Fri, 22 Jun 2018 21:04:05 +0200
> Enno Borgsteede <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hello Enno,
>
>> Gramps' built-in place types include City, Town, and Village, and for
>> those 3 different words, my language has only 2 translations, so in my
>> Gramps 4.2.8, the word Dorp appears twice. And this is even so when I
>> try to create a place in a new empty database.
> Agreed; no amount of exporting and importing would work under such
> circumstances.
>
> As you say, not being aware of the double Dorp in your tongue, or
> possibly double Ville in Alain's language may have led to bad advice.
>
>> Importing files into a new database can help to forget custom types
>> that were remembered in the context of a particular tree, but Ville is
>> most probably not a custom type, so I bet that it will re-appear in the
> Alain said he probably typed it in.  However, if he *didn't* type it in
> and there are two standard Types of that name, well, see above.   :-(
>
Hi,

Clearly I do believe that’s me who entered the superfluous item. Of
course, there is a similar problem in the French version as what Enno
has described, but I think the translator has cleverly done his/her job
as to avoid duplicates, thus possible confusion.

For instance, there are the following 2 items on my localized Gramps:
“Province” and “Province (Région)”, (while there is already an item
called “Région”). Not only those two items don’t make sense to describe
a French place, but also they sound a bit redundant. Actually we’re
using “Ville”, “Département” and “Région”. For example, I live in La
Rochelle, Charente-Maritime, Nouvelle Aquitaine, France (*).

So, your fix might have a chance to work.

Cheers,

Alain

(*) For the curious, note that the French regions have changed since
2016 and before this date my ’Région” was Poitou-Charentes instead of
Nouvelle Aquitaine.


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Re: How to remove a duplicate item in a menu list?

enno

Bonjour Alain,

Clearly I do believe that’s me who entered the superfluous item. Of course, there is a similar problem in the French version as what Enno has described, but I think the translator has cleverly done his/her job as to avoid duplicates, thus possible confusion.
I hope so, but as the English say, The proof of the pudding is in the eating, so you'll only know the answer if you test it, and that's easy. If you create a new empty tree, and try to add a place to that, you can immediately see whether the duplicate Ville is still there.

I must add that I don't know exactly where these custom types are stored, but if they are outside your database, and not in code either, they might be in some INI file.

For instance, there are the following 2 items on my localized Gramps: “Province” and “Province (Région)”, (while there is already an item called “Région”). Not only those two items don’t make sense to describe a French place, but also they sound a bit redundant. Actually we’re using “Ville”, “Département” and “Région”. For example, I live in La Rochelle, Charente-Maritime, Nouvelle Aquitaine, France (*).
And I have an ancestor from Montignac-le-Coq, for which GeoNames lists the following hierarchy:
Montignac-le-Coq ca. 110 m
P PPL populated place

When I read this, there is one level more than you list for your home, because you don't list the arrondissement. Is there a specific reason why you don't list that?

Regards,

Enno


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Re: How to remove a duplicate item in a menu list?

Brad Rogers
On Sat, 23 Jun 2018 12:48:25 +0200
Enno Borgsteede <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello Enno,

>stored, but if they are outside your database, and not in code either,

I don't think they are outside db.  That's why the only way to be rid of
custom Types is to stop using the one(s) you wish to be rid of and
export the db and import to a new db.

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Re: How to remove a duplicate item in a menu list?

Alain Pastor
In reply to this post by enno
Le 23/06/2018 à 12:48, Enno Borgsteede a écrit :

Bonjour Alain,

Clearly I do believe that’s me who entered the superfluous item. Of course, there is a similar problem in the French version as what Enno has described, but I think the translator has cleverly done his/her job as to avoid duplicates, thus possible confusion.
I hope so, but as the English say, The proof of the pudding is in the eating, so you'll only know the answer if you test it, and that's easy. If you create a new empty tree, and try to add a place to that, you can immediately see whether the duplicate Ville is still there.

Hi Enno,

I did it, and the duplicate is gone in the new database, subsequently the export/import should be OK to remove the unneeded item, I guess.

I must add that I don't know exactly where these custom types are stored, but if they are outside your database, and not in code either, they might be in some INI file.

For instance, there are the following 2 items on my localized Gramps: “Province” and “Province (Région)”, (while there is already an item called “Région”). Not only those two items don’t make sense to describe a French place, but also they sound a bit redundant. Actually we’re using “Ville”, “Département” and “Région”. For example, I live in La Rochelle, Charente-Maritime, Nouvelle Aquitaine, France (*).
And I have an ancestor from Montignac-le-Coq, for which GeoNames lists the following hierarchy:
Montignac-le-Coq ca. 110 m
P PPL populated place

Cool!
When I read this, there is one level more than you list for your home, because you don't list the arrondissement. Is there a specific reason why you don't list that?
Well, “arrondissements” are mainly used to determine specific subdivisions in big towns, for instance Paris has 20 “arrondissements”, Lyon has 9 and Marseille 13, all of them are represented with numbers.

“Départements” are also divided in “arrondissements”, but, in real life, they’re more than seldom used in this form. I had to search the web to discover that the “arrondissement” of La Rochelle is… La Rochelle. Go figure! Anyway, your hierarchy is more correct than mine for that matter.

Thank you for pointing this out to my attention. I’ll probably add in the future a new hierarchical level in my database, but I’ll reserve that for the big towns only, I think.

Best regards,

Alain

Regards,

Enno



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Re: How to remove a duplicate item in a menu list?

enno
Bonjour Alain,

> I did it, and the duplicate is gone in the new database, subsequently
> the export/import should be OK to remove the unneeded item, I guess.
I hope so, but like Brad or Dave wrote, this will probably only work if
there is no place using your custom Ville place type. And if it's a real
duplicate, spelled Ville, it may be quite hard to find out. It can be
done by inspecting the Gramps XML, but I don't know easy that is, for you.

> Well, “arrondissements” are mainly used to determine specific
> subdivisions in big towns, for instance Paris has 20
> “arrondissements”, Lyon has 9 and Marseille 13, all of them are
> represented with numbers.
>
> “Départements” are also divided in “arrondissements”, but, in real
> life, they’re more than seldom used in this form. I had to search the
> web to discover that the “arrondissement” of La Rochelle is… La
> Rochelle. Go figure! Anyway, your hierarchy is more correct than mine
> for that matter.
>
> Thank you for pointing this out to my attention. I’ll probably add in
> the future a new hierarchical level in my database, but I’ll reserve
> that for the big towns only, I think.
Same here. In my country we had "arrondissements" during French rule, so
I have some records, where the French word is actually used, because the
"arrondissement" is where the civil records were made, meaning that all
civil marriages that I have in my tree were performed at that level, and
not in the villages where my ancestors lived. Similarly, all births and
deaths were recorded by the civil registry in the central office of the
"arrondissement", or "gemeente" in Dutch, which the term that we still
use for municipality.

Anyway, I hope that things work well for you, and if you need help
interpreting that XML, please let us know.

Regards,

Enno


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Re: How to remove a duplicate item in a menu list?

Alain Pastor
Le 24/06/2018 à 20:58, Enno Borgsteede a écrit :
> Bonjour Alain,
>
>> I did it, and the duplicate is gone in the new database, subsequently
>> the export/import should be OK to remove the unneeded item, I guess.
> I hope so, but like Brad or Dave wrote, this will probably only work
> if there is no place using your custom Ville place type. And if it's a
> real duplicate, spelled Ville, it may be quite hard to find out. It
> can be done by inspecting the Gramps XML, but I don't know easy that
> is, for you.
Enno,

Thanks to the hint you have suggested, I could make sure that this is a
real duplicate. Note that I did some cleansing before posting my
original question: of course a few places were linked to the duplicate
type, however, filtering the Place view by type made it easy to find out
which places were tied to it since Gramps thankfully could distinguish
between the two identical types. Then, it was very simple to link those
few places to the correct type. Et voilà !

>
>> Well, “arrondissements” are mainly used to determine specific
>> subdivisions in big towns, for instance Paris has 20
>> “arrondissements”, Lyon has 9 and Marseille 13, all of them are
>> represented with numbers.
>>
>> “Départements” are also divided in “arrondissements”, but, in real
>> life, they’re more than seldom used in this form. I had to search the
>> web to discover that the “arrondissement” of La Rochelle is… La
>> Rochelle. Go figure! Anyway, your hierarchy is more correct than mine
>> for that matter.
>>
>> Thank you for pointing this out to my attention. I’ll probably add in
>> the future a new hierarchical level in my database, but I’ll reserve
>> that for the big towns only, I think.
> Same here. In my country we had "arrondissements" during French rule,
> so I have some records, where the French word is actually used,
> because the "arrondissement" is where the civil records were made,
> meaning that all civil marriages that I have in my tree were performed
> at that level, and not in the villages where my ancestors lived.
> Similarly, all births and deaths were recorded by the civil registry
> in the central office of the "arrondissement", or "gemeente" in Dutch,
> which the term that we still use for municipality.
>
> Anyway, I hope that things work well for you, and if you need help
> interpreting that XML, please let us know.
Maybe at some time, but not in a near future, I might have some
questions about XML, ’cos my intent is to produce a pdf report starting
from an XML export of my entire database (which counts at the moment
more than 60,300 records and is still growing). It is likely that I’ll
try to use FutureBASIC to parse the XML file and massage the data. I
really mean try because I’m just an amateur and I stopped programming
about 15 years ago and, of course, I’ve forgotten almost everything by now.

Once again, many thanks for your help, I appreciate it a lot.

Best regards,

Alain

>
> Regards,
>
> Enno
>
>
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Re: How to remove a duplicate item in a menu list?

John Paton
Just a passing thought that I should probably have allowed to pass
rather than posting this e_mail.

Should Place types be translated anyway? Obviously the UI etc needs to
reflect the working language of the individual user but if I discover
that a distant relative lived in eg Paris should I use the place type
'City' because I live in the UK and speak English or should I use
'Ville' because Paris is in France. I suppose it is a matter of choice
in that I can add 'Ville' and 'arrondissement' etc as custom types if I
am feeling pedantic enough.

If Place types were NOT translated but were, instead, all included in
all language versions of Gramps then in any language version I could
simply use the drop down list and select 'Ville' instead of 'City'. This
would avoid the duplicates problem that Enno mentions regarding eg
'Dorp' and everyone would have the facility to use the correct
terminology if they wished.

Would this make the 'Place types' file (wherever or whatever it is) too
cumbersome, too big or too difficult to maintain? Would  it be useful?
Am I about to be the object of the ire of the developers :)

John

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Re: How to remove a duplicate item in a menu list?

paul womack
John Paton wrote:
> Just a passing thought that I should probably have allowed to pass rather than posting this e_mail.
>
> Should Place types be translated anyway? Obviously the UI etc needs to reflect the working language of the individual user but if I discover that a distant relative lived in eg Paris should I use the place type 'City' because I live in the UK and speak English or should I use 'Ville' because Paris is in France. I suppose it is a matter of choice in that I can add 'Ville' and 'arrondissement' etc as custom types if I am feeling pedantic enough.
>
> If Place types were NOT translated but were, instead, all included in all language versions of Gramps then in any language version I could simply use the drop down list and select 'Ville' instead of 'City'. This would avoid the duplicates problem that Enno mentions regarding eg 'Dorp' and everyone would have the facility to use the correct terminology if they wished.
>
> Would this make the 'Place types' file (wherever or whatever it is) too cumbersome, too big or too difficult to maintain? Would  it be useful? Am I about to be the object of the ire of the developers :)

The semantics of place type need to reflect the structure of the country being modelled.

The language (syntax) of the place type should (probably) reflect that of the user.

For a user working in their own country, this distinction is not apparent.

Should a French user with English relatives use "Hundred" or "Cent"?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundred_%28county_division%29

  BugBear

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Re: How to remove a duplicate item in a menu list?

NdK
Il 25/06/2018 14:33, paul womack ha scritto:

> The semantics of place type need to reflect the structure of the country
> being modelled.
And it can change with time... Just to add complexity :(

BYtE,
 Diego


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Re: How to remove a duplicate item in a menu list?

Ron Johnson
In reply to this post by Alain Pastor
On 06/25/2018 06:26 AM, John Paton wrote:
Just a passing thought that I should probably have allowed to pass rather than posting this e_mail.

Should Place types be translated anyway?

Yes.

Obviously the UI etc needs to reflect the working language of the individual user but if I discover that a distant relative lived in eg Paris should I use the place type 'City' because I live in the UK and speak English or should I use 'Ville' because Paris is in France.

I shouldn't have to remember the translation of every obscure political subdivision in every language.

I suppose it is a matter of choice in that I can add 'Ville' and 'arrondissement' etc as custom types if I am feeling pedantic enough.

Correct.  I added arrondissement because it's useful,


If Place types were NOT translated but were, instead, all included in all language versions of Gramps then in any language version I could simply use the drop down list and select 'Ville' instead of 'City'. This would avoid the duplicates problem that Enno mentions regarding eg 'Dorp' and everyone would have the facility to use the correct terminology if they wished.

Would this make the 'Place types' file (wherever or whatever it is) too cumbersome, too big or too difficult to maintain? Would  it be useful? Am I about to be the object of the ire of the developers :)

There are a lot of translations.  Listing all the translations of all the standard places definitely would be unworkable and unuseable.


--
Angular momentum makes the world go 'round.

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