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How to show adoption in a family tree

RayArdia
My birth name was Godfrey Clutterbuck and I have a tree of Clutterbucks going back to the mid-16th century. I also have a separate tree for my adopted family, (adopted some 3 months after birthdate 13 Nov 1937), adopted name Raymond Allinson.
Whilst I have no problems researching these two separate trees I have always felt that I would like to link them, after all I appear in both trees, albeit under different names. I'm 75 now and although my children and grandchildren currently show little curiosity about their ancestry this may very well change as they get older - as it did for me - I was 40 before I searched for my original birth details! It would be nice to make any research easier by having only one tree!
Can anyone throw any light on this little problem; I'm sure I can't be the only adoptee who has ever asked the question.
Ray
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Re: How to show adoption in a family tree

DS Blank
On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 8:26 AM, RayArdia <[hidden email]> wrote:
My birth name was Godfrey Clutterbuck and I have a tree of Clutterbucks going
back to the mid-16th century. I also have a separate tree for my adopted
family, (adopted some 3 months after birthdate 13 Nov 1937), adopted name
Raymond Allinson.
Whilst I have no problems researching these two separate trees I have always
felt that I would like to link them, after all I appear in both trees,
albeit under different names. I'm 75 now and although my children and
grandchildren currently show little curiosity about their ancestry this may
very well change as they get older - as it did for me - I was 40 before I
searched for my original birth details! It would be nice to make any
research easier by having only one tree!
Can anyone throw any light on this little problem; I'm sure I can't be the
only adoptee who has ever asked the question.
Ray


There are probably a number of ways to handle this in Gramps, but I think I would handle this with two main points:

1) Give the Person two names. One of the default Name Types is "Birth Name". For an additional name, you can also make up your own Name Type, such as "Adopted Name" or use "Also Known As". You can change back and forth between which of these two names as the "Primary" name, which is the name used in reports and displays.

2) You can add any Person to multiple Families. The relationship of a child to each of the "parents" can be set to "Birth" for one family, and "Adopted" in the other.

You can split the two trees into two different databases, or keep all together, and divide by using filters. If you use two files, you'll have to make edits of the items that are in both trees.

There is a bit more help here:


Hope that helps,

-Doug
 


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Re: How to show adoption in a family tree

RayArdia
Dear Doug,
Many thanks for your post. I have added the 'adoption event' to my entry in my  Allinson tree but it hasn't changed the lines on chart to dashed or dotted, so I'm sure I haven't done things correctly!
Re:-'For an additional name, you can also make up your own Name Type, such as "Adopted Name" ' , There isn't an option to mark a name as and Adopted Name so far as I can see and I can't see how to make up my own. Can you explain please?
Re:-'You can split the two trees into two different databases, or keep all together, and divide by using filters. If you use two files, you'll have to make edits of the items that are in both trees.' The two Gedcom files are separate files at present and I would like them to be one, joined 'at the hip' so to speak by the entry for me, but I can't fathom out the mechanics of how to do this.
Sorry to be so dim, but would appreciate a little more help.
Regards,
Ray
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Re: How to show adoption in a family tree

J. Allen Crider-2
I think one way to do at least part of what you want is to go through
the family editor for the adoptive parents.  (I'm assuming here that the
adopted person is already in the database in the birth family.)  Go to
the Relationships view for one of the parents and click on the Edit
Family icon (just above the spouse).  On the Children tab, click on the
Add Existing Person icon which will open a dialog to select an existing
person from the database.  After selecting the adopted person, you will
get another dialog for selecting the relationships to the parents.
Select Adopted for each parent on that dialog.  The person should now
appear to have two sets of parents in the Relationships view.

Allen Crider

On 01/13/2013 04:27 PM, RayArdia wrote:

> Dear Doug,
> Many thanks for your post. I have added the 'adoption event' to my entry in
> my  Allinson tree but it hasn't changed the lines on chart to dashed or
> dotted, so I'm sure I haven't done things correctly!
> Re:-'For an additional name, you can also make up your own Name Type, such
> as "Adopted Name" ' , There isn't an option to mark a name as and Adopted
> Name so far as I can see and I can't see how to make up my own. Can you
> explain please?
> Re:-'You can split the two trees into two different databases, or keep all
> together, and divide by using filters. If you use two files, you'll have to
> make edits of the items that are in both trees.' The two Gedcom files are
> separate files at present and I would like them to be one, joined 'at the
> hip' so to speak by the entry for me, but I can't fathom out the mechanics
> of how to do this.
> Sorry to be so dim, but would appreciate a little more help.
> Regards,
> Ray
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://gramps.1791082.n4.nabble.com/How-to-show-adoption-in-a-family-tree-tp4658072p4658114.html
> Sent from the GRAMPS - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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Re: How to show adoption in a family tree

DS Blank
In reply to this post by RayArdia
On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 5:27 PM, RayArdia <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dear Doug,
Many thanks for your post. I have added the 'adoption event' to my entry in
my  Allinson tree but it hasn't changed the lines on chart to dashed or
dotted, so I'm sure I haven't done things correctly!

You may have done things "correctly" but you may have to be more specific about which report you are running, what you expect to see, and what actually happens. As far as I know about most reports, they work on families, not on events, so I'm not sure you'll see any effect with just an Adoption Event.

Re:-'For an additional name, you can also make up your own Name Type, such
as "Adopted Name" ' , There isn't an option to mark a name as and Adopted
Name so far as I can see and I can't see how to make up my own. Can you
explain please?

Just type your own "custom" type into the box. There is an down arrow there to select some known types, but you can just enter your own there too. This is called a "combo box" because you can either select one from a list, or enter your own.
 
Re:-'You can split the two trees into two different databases, or keep all
together, and divide by using filters. If you use two files, you'll have to
make edits of the items that are in both trees.' The two Gedcom files are
separate files at present and I would like them to be one, joined 'at the
hip' so to speak by the entry for me, but I can't fathom out the mechanics
of how to do this.

It is very easy: 

1. create a new family tree in Gramps
2. Import one GEDCOM
3. Import the other GEDCOM

This works best if the overlap is minimal (say, just one person). After the two imports, you can merge any duplicate people.

 
Sorry to be so dim, but would appreciate a little more help.
Regards,
Ray

No problem! There are many people here you are always willing to lend a hand. Also, Gramps is powerful enough that reading the manual is a useful thing to do:


-Doug
 




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Re: How to show adoption in a family tree

RayArdia
On 01/14/2013 02:05 AM, Doug Blank wrote:
> No problem! There are many people here you are always willing to lend a hand. Also, Gramps is powerful enough that reading the manual is a useful thing to do:

Thank you, I'll try to follow your instructions and let you know how I get on - BTW I appreciated your polite pointer above - you were kind enough not to say RTFM!!!
-Ray
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Re: How to show adoption in a family tree

enno
Hi Ray,

In addition to what you can read in the manual, here's a couple of hints:

1. If your current trees are in Gramps already, do not export to GEDCOM
for merging. You are likely to loose information that can't be exported
to GEDCOM then. If you create backups as .gpkg or .gramps, you can
import those into a new tree.

2. In the manual, you can read that merging people never discards
information. That is a very nice feature that protects you when there
are small differences between records, and you don't know which piece of
information is best, but alternate names and dates are also kept when
they are exactly the same. This means that after merging persons you may
see duplicate births etc. with matching dates and places. You have to
delete those duplicates yourself.

Hope this helps.

Enno


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Re: How to show adoption in a family tree

RayArdia
In reply to this post by DS Blank
Hi Doug,
Have got the two Gedcoms loaded as one Family Tree but I can't understand what you mean by "After the two imports, you can merge any duplicate people."
The only duplicates are the two 'mes', Godfrey Clutterbuck, at present  incorrectly shown as child of Ethel Marjorie Clutterbuck and William Clutterbuck whereas in fact the father is unknown, but definitely not William C. How do change this please?

Raymond Allinson is shown but isn't linked to his adopted mother and father. Person record now shows him as adopted. How do I make that link, and then what steps do I have to take to effect the merge?

Finally, a more general question about Ancestry view. Why is only one child in a family ever shown, is there a way to display all the children in a family at the same time? I can't find anything in the manual.
Best wishes,
Ray
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Re: How to show adoption in a family tree

DS Blank
On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 2:09 PM, RayArdia <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Doug,
> Have got the two Gedcoms loaded as one Family Tree but I can't understand
> what you mean by "After the two imports, you can merge any duplicate
> people."
> The only duplicates are the two 'mes', Godfrey Clutterbuck, at present *
> incorrectly *shown as child of Ethel Marjorie Clutterbuck and William
> Clutterbuck whereas in fact the father is unknown, but definitely not
> William C. How do change this please?
>
> Raymond Allinson is shown but isn't linked to his adopted mother and father.
> Person record now shows him as adopted. How do I make that link, and then
> what steps do I have to take to effect the merge?

To merge two people, select both in the People View (click on one,
control+click on the other). Then click the "Merge" button in the
toolbar.

I don't know why you are seeing incorrect data.

> Finally, a more general question about Ancestry view. Why is only one child
> in a family ever shown, is there a way to display all the children in a
> family at the same time? I can't find anything in the manual.

The Ancestry View in Gramps 3.4 only shows the direct ancestors of a
particular person. Use the Relationship View to see all of the
children. Or open a Gramplet in the Side or Bottom bar and add the
"Person Children" gramplet. That will show the children of the
currently active person.

Hope that helps,

-Doug

> Best wishes,
> Ray
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://gramps.1791082.n4.nabble.com/How-to-show-adoption-in-a-family-tree-tp4658072p4658135.html
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>
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Re: How to show adoption in a family tree

RayArdia
In reply to this post by enno
On 01/14/2013 05:56 PM, Enno Borgsteede wrote:

> Hi Ray,
>
> In addition to what you can read in the manual, here's a couple of hints:
>
> 1. If your current trees are in Gramps already, do not export to GEDCOM
> for merging. You are likely to loose information that can't be exported
> to GEDCOM then. If you create backups as .gpkg or .gramps, you can
> import those into a new tree.
>
> 2. In the manual, you can read that merging people never discards
> information. That is a very nice feature that protects you when there
> are small differences between records, and you don't know which piece of
> information is best, but alternate names and dates are also kept when
> they are exactly the same. This means that after merging persons you may
> see duplicate births etc. with matching dates and places. You have to
> delete those duplicates yourself.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Enno
>
>
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Many thanks EnnoI appreciate your help. Please see my latest post to
Doug for more detail.

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Re: How to show adoption in a family tree

RayArdia
In reply to this post by DS Blank
Hi Doug, I'm still struggling!
I followed your 'To merge two people, select both in the People View (click on one,
control+click on the other). Then click the "Merge" button in the
toolbar.'
(As I had done before) the result is that in Ancestry view Raymond Allinson (sic)  appears as a legitimate child of William and Ethel Clutterbuck (which is wrong because he was illegitimate, father unknown, and should be shown as Godfrey his given name at birth). The 'tile' for Godfrey C doesn't show in the tree at all,nor in the index list in Person. (If I undo the 'merge ' he reappears.)
When I do the Merge there is a choice between making Raymond or Godfrey the 'source info' person, choosing R gives the above result, choosing G causes an error and invites me to submit a bug report.

Re:- 'The Ancestry View in Gramps 3.4 only shows the direct ancestors of a
particular person. Use the Relationship View to see all of the
children. Or open a Gramplet in the Side or Bottom bar and add the
"Person Children" gramplet. That will show the children of the
currently active person. '
OK, I understand, so my Ancestry View is performing as designed even tough I would prefer it to give me a 'picture' of a whole family. I can see the family in Relationships and I THINK I follow the logic of why some names are in bold, blue, italics or just grey. No doubt these permutations are incredibly useful to clever people like yourself but I must confess to being more than a little confused. BTW adding the Person Children gramplet didn't appear to do anything at all.

If it's true that we lose brain cells at an increasing rate as we age then I guess my three or four (dozen?) that remain are struggling to cope. Maybe there is a simpler program that would do what I need to do but in a more ancient-duffer-friendly way?

My thanks once more to you and to the others who have replied, for the help so far, it is very much appreciated.
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Re: How to show adoption in a family tree

DS Blank
On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 7:17 AM, RayArdia <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Doug, I'm still struggling!
> I followed your 'To merge two people, select both in the People View (click
> on one,
> control+click on the other). Then click the "Merge" button in the
> toolbar.'
> (As I had done before) the result is that in Ancestry view Raymond Allinson
> (sic)  appears as a legitimate child of William and Ethel Clutterbuck (which
> is wrong because he was illegitimate, father unknown, and should be shown as
> Godfrey his given name at birth). The 'tile' for Godfrey C doesn't show in
> the tree at all,nor in the index list in Person. (If I undo the 'merge ' he
> reappears.)

When you merge two people, everything from both people is now on one
person item. So, (I believe) all of the the names are now attached to
a single entity.

The Person View only shows each person once, by their Primary Name. So
it makes sense that when you merge two people, one of the names will
be removed from the Person View, as that name is no longer a Primary
Name.

You can edit the new merged person to adjust the Primary name to be
the one that you want. But that person will be known by that name
throughout Gramps. Perhaps you don't want that. Perhaps what you
really want is to treat this one person as different people, so that
the names will appear differently in the two families.

> When I do the Merge there is a choice between making Raymond or Godfrey the
> 'source info' person, choosing R gives the above result, choosing G causes
> an error and invites me to submit a bug report.

Please do file a bug report! Otherwise, what ever is wrong won't get fixed.

> Re:- 'The Ancestry View in Gramps 3.4 only shows the direct ancestors of a
> particular person. Use the Relationship View to see all of the
> children. Or open a Gramplet in the Side or Bottom bar and add the
> "Person Children" gramplet. That will show the children of the
> currently active person. '
> OK, I understand, so my Ancestry View is performing as designed even tough I
> would prefer it to give me a 'picture' of a whole family.

Well, that would be perhaps messy, as you know, as siblings might have
different parents.

> I can see the
> family in Relationships and I THINK I follow the logic of why some names are
> in bold, blue, italics or just grey. No doubt these permutations are
> incredibly useful to clever people like yourself but I must confess to being
> more than a little confused.

They do mean something, but it is arbitrary and no one would know what
they meant without the manual:

http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=Gramps_3.4_Wiki_Manual_-_Main_Window#Relationships_Category

Briefly: "The name of the Active Person is in bold style. Other names
are shown either with or without bold and italic emphasis depending on
whether certain relationships exist for the named person. For a person
listed as a parent or spouse of the Active Person, the name is
emphasized if that person has a parent family. For a person listed as
a sibling or child of the Active Person, the name is emphasized if
that person has children."

So, if there are more relationships known (children or parents) for a
person, it is emphasized.

> BTW adding the Person Children gramplet didn't
> appear to do anything at all.

It shows the active person's children. The Active Person is the person
at the top of the Relationship View, and the "root of the tree" person
in the Ancestry View. If the Active Person doesn't have any Children,
then it won't show anyone.

>
> If it's true that we lose brain cells at an increasing rate as we age then I
> guess my three or four (dozen?) that remain are struggling to cope. Maybe
> there is a simpler program that would do what I need to do but in a more
> ancient-duffer-friendly way?
>
> My thanks once more to you and to the others who have replied, for the help
> so far, it is very much appreciated.

Gramps is powerful and sophisticated, no doubt about it. But for many,
it is worth getting used to for the long run. Your mileage may vary :)

-Doug

>
>
>
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Re: How to show adoption in a family tree

Craig Treleaven
In reply to this post by RayArdia
At 4:17 AM -0800 1/15/13, RayArdia wrote:

>Hi Doug, I'm still struggling!
>I followed your 'To merge two people, select both in the People View (click
>on one,
>control+click on the other). Then click the "Merge" button in the
>toolbar.'
>(As I had done before) the result is that in Ancestry view Raymond Allinson
>(sic)  appears as a legitimate child of William and Ethel Clutterbuck (which
>is wrong because he was illegitimate, father unknown, and should be shown as
>Godfrey his given name at birth). The 'tile' for Godfrey C doesn't show in
>the tree at all,nor in the index list in Person. (If I undo the 'merge ' he
>reappears.)
>When I do the Merge there is a choice between making Raymond or Godfrey the
>'source info' person, choosing R gives the above result, choosing G causes
>an error and invites me to submit a bug report.
>
>Re:- 'The Ancestry View in Gramps 3.4 only shows the direct ancestors of a
>particular person. Use the Relationship View to see all of the
>children. Or open a Gramplet in the Side or Bottom bar and add the
>"Person Children" gramplet. That will show the children of the
>currently active person. '
>OK, I understand, so my Ancestry View is performing as designed even tough I
>would prefer it to give me a 'picture' of a whole family. I can see the
>family in Relationships and I THINK I follow the logic of why some names are
>in bold, blue, italics or just grey. No doubt these permutations are
>incredibly useful to clever people like yourself but I must confess to being
>more than a little confused. BTW adding the Person Children gramplet didn't
>appear to do anything at all.
>
>If it's true that we lose brain cells at an increasing rate as we age then I
>guess my three or four (dozen?) that remain are struggling to cope. Maybe
>there is a simpler program that would do what I need to do but in a more
>ancient-duffer-friendly way?
>
>My thanks once more to you and to the others who have replied, for the help
>so far, it is very much appreciated.

Hi:

I'd suggest you create a family tree just for testing:  from the menu
bar, select Family Trees>Manage Family Trees... and click New.  Give
it whatever name you like--I use "Junk Test" so it is crystal clear
to me!

In your new, empty tree, create the four parents:  two birth and two
adoptive.  Again, I wouldn't use real names..something like "Birth
Dad", "Birth Mom", "Adoptive father" and "Adoptive Mom".  Start with
the birth parents and add a child to their family in the normal way.
(Maybe name it "Child".)  Your family tree now has 5 people in it.
Now, start with the adoptive parents in the Families view.  To add
the adopted child, click the icon with the pointing finger; NOT the
regular Plus icon.  Select the child from the list.  When you click
OK, you'll be presented with a dialog titled "Child Reference
Editor".  Here, you specify the relationship with each of the parents
is "Adopted".

Now regardless of which parent you choose, the Relationships window
will show Child as a child of each of the parents.  The Ancestory
window shows the birth parents.  If you run the "Complete Individual
Report...", it will show the birth parents and an extra section
called "Alternate Parents", with "relationship:  adopted".  The
"Detailed Descendant Report" for the adoptive parents will also list
Child.

(Notice that there are several other relationship options available.
I think this is how you handle the illegitimate child issue.)

Note that we haven't recorded the date of the adoption, the agency
involved, etc.  If you want to record those details, select the child
and add an Event
"Adopted", where you can add as many or as few details as you wish.
I then like to 'share' this event with the adoptive mother and
father.  Again, this is done by using the icon with the pointing
finger rather than the Plus icon.

Looking at it now, I realize 'Families' can have events as well as
the adoptive parents as individuals.  I'm not sure if it is better
for the adoptive family to share the event or for each of the
adopting parents.  You may want to play with your test family tree
and decide for yourself.

When you are done playing, use the Family Trees icon in the toolbar
to navigate back to your main family tree.

HTH

Craig



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Re: How to show adoption in a family tree

RayArdia
In reply to this post by DS Blank
Re:-'When you merge two people, everything from both people is now on one
person item. So, (I believe) all of the the names are now attached to
a single entity.

The Person View only shows each person once, by their Primary Name. So
it makes sense that when you merge two people, one of the names will
be removed from the Person View, as that name is no longer a Primary
Name. '

Got that, so to correct things I need to:-
a. Change the Primary Name in the record that exists and,
b. Create a new person for the other Primary Name and,
c. Undo the merge - is this possible after closing Gramps and doing a backup?

Am I correct in thinking that the 'Merge? action did nothing towards my real aim which was (for the purpose of making things transparent, and clear for subsequent generations of my family) to have all the people who are "related" by the accidental appearance in the world of Godfrey/Raymond on "one sheet of paper" with a clear indication of where the link between two family groups occurred?

Re:- Perhaps you don't want that. Perhaps what you
really want is to treat this one person as different people, so that
the names will appear differently in the two families.

I  want to show that Godfery was illegitimate, father unknown, mother Ethel Clutterbuck and that there exists a 'link' between him and Raymond, adopted son of Mark and Mary Allinson. Perhaps the only way of doing this in Gramps is by inserting Notes on both G and Rs' records?

Am I on the right lines, please?
Ray

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Re: How to show adoption in a family tree

RayArdia
In reply to this post by Craig Treleaven
Hi Craig,
Thanks for your post. Have followed you as far as "Start with
the birth parents and add a child to their family in the normal way."
but I must have gone wrong somewhere because, although I have the five
persons in the family tree, (see Screenshot 1) they are just that - 5
separate persons with no link between the birth parents and their child.
I tried giving a marriage 'event' to both the Clut father and mother,
but although the event shows on each of their records there's no
apparent link.
When I click on Clut,Father in Relationships I get Screenshot 2 which
shows the father as a sibling of can you help pleaseClut,Child! What am
I doing  wrong; can you help me please?
Ray

Screenshot 1 (103K) Download Attachment
Screenshot 2 (102K) Download Attachment
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Re: How to show adoption in a family tree

Craig Treleaven
At 11:32 AM -0800 1/15/13, RayArdia wrote:

>Hi Craig,
>Thanks for your post. Have followed you as far as "Start with
>the birth parents and add a child to their family in the normal way."
>but I must have gone wrong somewhere because, although I have the five
>persons in the family tree, (see Screenshot 1) they are just that - 5
>separate persons with no link between the birth parents and their child.
>I tried giving a marriage 'event' to both the Clut father and mother,
>but although the event shows on each of their records there's no
>apparent link.
>When I click on Clut,Father in Relationships I get Screenshot 2 which
>shows the father as a sibling of can you help pleaseClut,Child! What am
>I doing  wrong; can you help me please?

Ok, it seems you are unfamiliar with some pretty basic stuff in
Gramps.  You seem to know how to create a person but not a family.
I'll try to detail the most basic steps but I think you should spent
some time reading the manual and practising in your Experimental tree.

In your Experimental tree:

1(a) Create "Birth Dad":  in the People view, click the Plus icon.
Give him the name "Birth Dad" in the resulting dialog and choose Male
sex.  Click OK to finish.

1(b) Click on "Dad, Birth" in the People view.  Click to change to
the Relationships screen.  You should see "Dad, Birth" but no
parents, siblings, spouse, etc.  Now click the Partner icon from the
toolbar.  In the resulting dialog, you'll see "Dad, Birth" as the
father but the mother is blank.  Click the Plus icon for the mother.
In the resulting dialog, fill in "Birth Mom" as the name and click
OK.  This will take you back to the New Family dialog.  The
Relationship Type will be Unknown at this point.  Change that to
Married. Click the Events tab so it says "Family Events - 0".  Now
click the Plus icon in that section and it should default to a
Marriage event.  Normally you would fill in the date and place but
just click OK for now.

2 Repeat the steps in 1(a) and (b) to create "Adoptive Pa" and "Adoptive Ma".

3 Switch to the Families view.  Double-click on the "Dad,
Birth"/"Mom, Birth" row to bring up the Family dialog.  The Children
tab should be active, by default.  Click the Plus icon to add a child
to the family.  Enter the given name "Child"; by default the child
gets the father's last name which is "Dad" in this case.  When you
click OK, a dialog will pop up asking you to specify the child's
relationship to it's father and mother.  By default, it is "Birth"
which is what we want in this case, so click OK.  This will bring us
back to the Family dialog.  Click OK to signal that we're done
editing this family.

4) Still in the Families view, double-click on the "Pa,
Adoptive"/"Ma, Adoptive" row to edit that family.  Here is where we
click the icon with the pointing finger (not the Plus icon) so that
we can 'share' an existing person with this family.  In the resulting
list, click the drop-down for "Dad" to show the list of people with
the "Dad" surname".  Click on "Dad, Child" and then click OK.  This
is were we change the "Birth" relationship to "Adopted" for both
mother and father.  When you've done that, click OK to take you back
to the Family dialog which will now show the child and the adopted
status.

Now you can check the reports and screens and you should be able to
see the birth and adoptive relationships.  The manual has more
details, including screen shots at:

http://www.gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=Gramps_3.4_Wiki_Manual_-_Entering_and_editing_data:_brief#To_specify_a_relationship

HTH

Craig

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Re: How to show adoption in a family tree

RayArdia
Hi Craig, just a quick "thank you"!
Have now found the
entry in the wiki manual. Just didn't see it before and was trying to find sections of the manual which I thought would be relevant - clearly the wrong way to go about it. I'll now sit down and read (as in RTFM!) and then follow your excellent step-by-step instructions.
Regards,
Ray


On 01/15/2013 11:16 PM, Craig Treleaven [via GRAMPS] wrote:
At 11:32 AM -0800 1/15/13, RayArdia wrote:

>Hi Craig,
>Thanks for your post. Have followed you as far as "Start with
>the birth parents and add a child to their family in the normal way."
>but I must have gone wrong somewhere because, although I have the five
>persons in the family tree, (see Screenshot 1) they are just that - 5
>separate persons with no link between the birth parents and their child.
>I tried giving a marriage 'event' to both the Clut father and mother,
>but although the event shows on each of their records there's no
>apparent link.
>When I click on Clut,Father in Relationships I get Screenshot 2 which
>shows the father as a sibling of can you help pleaseClut,Child! What am
>I doing  wrong; can you help me please?

Ok, it seems you are unfamiliar with some pretty basic stuff in
Gramps.  You seem to know how to create a person but not a family.
I'll try to detail the most basic steps but I think you should spent
some time reading the manual and practising in your Experimental tree.

In your Experimental tree:

1(a) Create "Birth Dad":  in the People view, click the Plus icon.
Give him the name "Birth Dad" in the resulting dialog and choose Male
sex.  Click OK to finish.

1(b) Click on "Dad, Birth" in the People view.  Click to change to
the Relationships screen.  You should see "Dad, Birth" but no
parents, siblings, spouse, etc.  Now click the Partner icon from the
toolbar.  In the resulting dialog, you'll see "Dad, Birth" as the
father but the mother is blank.  Click the Plus icon for the mother.
In the resulting dialog, fill in "Birth Mom" as the name and click
OK.  This will take you back to the New Family dialog.  The
Relationship Type will be Unknown at this point.  Change that to
Married. Click the Events tab so it says "Family Events - 0".  Now
click the Plus icon in that section and it should default to a
Marriage event.  Normally you would fill in the date and place but
just click OK for now.

2 Repeat the steps in 1(a) and (b) to create "Adoptive Pa" and "Adoptive Ma".

3 Switch to the Families view.  Double-click on the "Dad,
Birth"/"Mom, Birth" row to bring up the Family dialog.  The Children
tab should be active, by default.  Click the Plus icon to add a child
to the family.  Enter the given name "Child"; by default the child
gets the father's last name which is "Dad" in this case.  When you
click OK, a dialog will pop up asking you to specify the child's
relationship to it's father and mother.  By default, it is "Birth"
which is what we want in this case, so click OK.  This will bring us
back to the Family dialog.  Click OK to signal that we're done
editing this family.

4) Still in the Families view, double-click on the "Pa,
Adoptive"/"Ma, Adoptive" row to edit that family.  Here is where we
click the icon with the pointing finger (not the Plus icon) so that
we can 'share' an existing person with this family.  In the resulting
list, click the drop-down for "Dad" to show the list of people with
the "Dad" surname".  Click on "Dad, Child" and then click OK.  This
is were we change the "Birth" relationship to "Adopted" for both
mother and father.  When you've done that, click OK to take you back
to the Family dialog which will now show the child and the adopted
status.

Now you can check the reports and screens and you should be able to
see the birth and adoptive relationships.  The manual has more
details, including screen shots at:

http://www.gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=Gramps_3.4_Wiki_Manual_-_Entering_and_editing_data:_brief#To_specify_a_relationship

HTH

Craig

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Re: How to show adoption in a family tree

RayArdia
In reply to this post by Craig Treleaven
Dear Craig,
Results so far.
Persons created as in (Screenshot)SS1. Each Person Record is show in SS2-6

3 Switch to the Families view.  Double-click on the "Dad,
Birth"/"Mom, Birth" row to bring up the Family dialog.  The Children
tab should be active, by default.  Click the Plus icon to add a child
to the family.  Enter the given name "Child"; by default the child
gets the father's last name which is "Dad" in this case.  When you
click OK, a dialog will pop up asking you to specify the child's
relationship to it's father and mother.  By default, it is "Birth"
which is what we want in this case, so click OK.  This will bring us
back to the Family dialog.  Click OK to signal that we're done
editing this family.
So far, so good....
4) Still in the Families view, double-click on the "Pa,
Adoptive"/"Ma, Adoptive" row to edit that family.
Didn't get this at first but after 'the penny dropped', it went OK after I realised that I was looking for a pointing finger in the Edit Family screen.
 Here is where we
click the icon with the pointing finger (not the Plus icon) so that
we can 'share' an existing person with this family.  In the resulting
list, click the drop-down for "Dad" to show the list of people with
When I realised that the little arrowhead was the triger for the drop-don menu, all was well...
the "Dad" surname".  Click on "Dad, Child" and then click OK.  This
is were we change the "Birth" relationship to "Adopted" for both
mother and father.  When you've done that, click OK to take you back
to the Family dialog which will now show the child and the adopted
status.
Don't know how I messed things up from here on in but the resulting Ancestry display shows Dad and Mum Birth as (legitimate) parents of Adoptive, Child.
I  want to show that Child, Birth was illegitimate, father unknown, mother Mum,Birth and that there exists a 'link' between him and Child Adoptive, adopted son of Ma & Pa Adoptive. Perhaps the only way of doing this in Gramps is by inserting Notes on the records?

I have tried to decipher  it all by reading the manual, but sadly that only leaves me even more confused. I would be most grateful if you could spare the time to give me a little more help - sorry to be a pain!
Regards, Ray

Screenshot 1 Persons created.png (104K) Download Attachment
Screenshot 2. Birth Mum .png (88K) Download Attachment
Screenshot 3. Birth Dad.png (88K) Download Attachment
Screenshot 4. Adoptive Pa.png (92K) Download Attachment
Screenshot 5 Adoptive Ma.png (93K) Download Attachment
Screenshot 6 Adoptive Child.png (84K) Download Attachment
Screenshot Ancestry view.png (82K) Download Attachment
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Re: How to show adoption in a family tree

DS Blank
On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 8:08 AM, RayArdia <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dear Craig,
Results so far.
Persons created as in (Screenshot)SS1. Each Person Record is show in SS2-6


3 Switch to the Families view.  Double-click on the "Dad,
Birth"/"Mom, Birth" row to bring up the Family dialog.  The Children
tab should be active, by default.  Click the Plus icon to add a child
to the family.  Enter the given name "Child"; by default the child
gets the father's last name which is "Dad" in this case.  When you
click OK, a dialog will pop up asking you to specify the child's
relationship to it's father and mother.  By default, it is "Birth"
which is what we want in this case, so click OK.  This will bring us
back to the Family dialog.  Click OK to signal that we're done
editing this family.
So far, so good....

4) Still in the Families view, double-click on the "Pa,
Adoptive"/"Ma, Adoptive" row to edit that family.
Didn't get this at first but after 'the penny dropped', it went OK after I realised that I was looking for a pointing finger in the Edit Family screen.

 Here is where we
click the icon with the pointing finger (not the Plus icon) so that
we can 'share' an existing person with this family.  In the resulting
list, click the drop-down for "Dad" to show the list of people with
When I realised that the little arrowhead was the triger for the drop-don menu, all was well...

the "Dad" surname".  Click on "Dad, Child" and then click OK.  This
is were we change the "Birth" relationship to "Adopted" for both
mother and father.  When you've done that, click OK to take you back
to the Family dialog which will now show the child and the adopted
status.
Don't know how I messed things up from here on in but the resulting Ancestry display shows Dad and Mum Birth as (legitimate) parents of Adoptive, Child.
I  want to show that Child, Birth was illegitimate, father unknown, mother Mum,Birth and that there exists a 'link' between him and Child Adoptive, adopted son of Ma & Pa Adoptive. Perhaps the only way of doing this in Gramps is by inserting Notes on the records?


Perhaps one other bit of information you need: The families that a person is a child in is a list, and the first one is the preferred one for displaying things like Ancestry.

So, if you are looking at a child, and you want to see a different set of parents than the one showing in the Ancestry view, you need to change the order of the families. You can do that in the Relationship View via the Toolbar button (dots with down arrow).

-Doug
 


I have tried to decipher  it all by reading the manual, but sadly that only leaves me even more confused. I would be most grateful if you could spare the time to give me a little more help - sorry to be a pain!
Regards, Ray

Screenshot 1 Persons created.png (104K) Download Attachment
Screenshot 2. Birth Mum .png (88K) Download Attachment
Screenshot 3. Birth Dad.png (88K) Download Attachment
Screenshot 4. Adoptive Pa.png (92K) Download Attachment
Screenshot 5 Adoptive Ma.png (93K) Download Attachment
Screenshot 6 Adoptive Child.png (84K) Download Attachment
Screenshot Ancestry view.png (82K) Download Attachment


View this message in context: Re: How to show adoption in a family tree
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Re: How to show adoption in a family tree

RayArdia
Perhaps one other bit of information you need: The families that a person is a child in is a list, and the first one is the preferred one for displaying things like Ancestry.

So, if you are looking at a child, and you want to see a different set of parents than the one showing in the Ancestry view, you need to change the order of the families. You can do that in the Relationship View via the Toolbar button (dots with down arrow).

-Doug
Thank you Doug, that clears up one little problem but I'm still left with my Child being shown as Child, Adoptive of both sets of parents, see screenshot.

-Ray
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