I thought deleting people was easy...

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I thought deleting people was easy...

TJMcK
I've been using Gramps for years now, and suddenly I'm wondering if I know how to properly delete people.  The reason I ask is that I'm getting all these blank lines in the "people" view.

What I've been doing is just selecting (highlight) the line(s) that I want to delete and click on the "remove" X icon.  But, does this process delete-remove all the events associated with a person?  Is this why I'm getting the blank lines?  Please don't tell me that I have to delete all the events and relationships associated with that person before I can "remove" a person...
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Re: I thought deleting people was easy...

Brad Rogers
On Mon, 7 Apr 2014 22:27:47 -0700 (PDT)
TJMcK <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello TJMcK,

I'm not sure why you're seeing blank lines in the People view.  Are they
truly blank, or are there IDs or other details showing?  What happens
when you click on one of those blank lines?

>What I've been doing is just selecting (highlight) the line(s) that I
>want to delete and click on the "remove" X icon.  But, does this process

Here it's a - (minus) sign, but yes, that deletes the person and only
the person.

>delete-remove all the events associated with a person?  Is this why I'm

No, events have to be deleted separately.  Gramps has a tool that will
do that for you.  Go to Tools menu, Family Tree Repair -> Remove unused
objects and run that.

FYI, Gramps doesn't automatically delete ell events etc. associated with
a person because if any of them are shared events the people remaining
will have their copy of the event removed too.  I suppose that remove
unused objects /could/ be run during the delete person process (if the
programming were changed) but it would slow the process considerably.
Also, the principle of "do least damage" comes into play here.

--
 Regards  _
         / )           "The blindingly obvious is
        / _)rad        never immediately apparent"
That's what I call you
Heaven Sent - INXS

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Re: I thought deleting people was easy...

jerome
In reply to this post by TJMcK
Tim,

What do you mean by blank lines?
Events or People?

The design is like that, to remove a person, will only delete a person!

Into some translations, there is two different verbs when we remove a record or when remove a link to a record. eg, into Editors, we often remove a relation/reference to an other record, we do not remove this record from the database.

Do you really want to remove a person and related records with one action?
If so, what about relationships (family, association, witness, etc ...)?
What happen if you link an existing event to a person, then remove this person because it was not the right one (homonym, etc...)? You can store an event without knowing the person or family. Fact may exist outside of known people!

Note, there is also a tool (Remove unused records), which should make the expected actions at a glance with more control than a global related records deletion.


Jérôme



Le mar. 8 avril 2014 at 7:27, TJMcK <[hidden email]> a écrit :
I've been using Gramps for years now, and suddenly I'm wondering if I know how to properly delete people. The reason I ask is that I'm getting all these blank lines in the "people" view. What I've been doing is just selecting (highlight) the line(s) that I want to delete and click on the "remove" X icon. But, does this process delete-remove all the events associated with a person? Is this why I'm getting the blank lines? Please don't tell me that I have to delete all the events and relationships associated with that person before I can "remove" a person... -- View this message in context: http://gramps.1791082.n4.nabble.com/I-thought-deleting-people-was-easy-tp4665464.html Sent from the GRAMPS - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Put Bad Developers to Shame Dominate Development with Jenkins Continuous Integration Continuously Automate Build, Test & Deployment Start a new project now. Try Jenkins in the cloud. http://p.sf.net/sfu/13600_Cloudbees _______________________________________________ Gramps-users mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users

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Re: I thought deleting people was easy...

paul womack
Jerome wrote:
 > Fact may exist outside of known people!

As a concrete example, my DB includes a "Military"
event, the sinking of HMS Hogue, 25/9/1914

It simply forms part of a timeline.

   BugBear

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Re: I thought deleting people was easy...

jerome
In reply to this post by jerome
OK, maybe it is related to last revisions (today/yesterday) on git...

You are running '3.4.8-git', right?

There is regressions according to some commits on git repository!
eg, one issue around:

    File "gramps/gen/db/write.py", line 1144, in __remove_reference
    self.reference_map.delete(key, txn=txn)
DBNotFoundError: (-30987, 'DB_NOTFOUND: No matching key/data pair found')

is back on last revisions ... :(

This might explain that you see blank lines (or a crash) via gramps-git!


Le mar. 8 avril 2014 at 10:08, Jerome <[hidden email]> a écrit :
Tim,

What do you mean by blank lines?
Events or People?

The design is like that, to remove a person, will only delete a person!

Into some translations, there is two different verbs when we remove a record or when remove a link to a record. eg, into Editors, we often remove a relation/reference to an other record, we do not remove this record from the database.

Do you really want to remove a person and related records with one action?
If so, what about relationships (family, association, witness, etc ...)?
What happen if you link an existing event to a person, then remove this person because it was not the right one (homonym, etc...)? You can store an event without knowing the person or family. Fact may exist outside of known people!

Note, there is also a tool (Remove unused records), which should make the expected actions at a glance with more control than a global related records deletion.


Jérôme



Le mar. 8 avril 2014 at 7:27, TJMcK <[hidden email]> a écrit :
I've been using Gramps for years now, and suddenly I'm wondering if I know how to properly delete people. The reason I ask is that I'm getting all these blank lines in the "people" view. What I've been doing is just selecting (highlight) the line(s) that I want to delete and click on the "remove" X icon. But, does this process delete-remove all the events associated with a person? Is this why I'm getting the blank lines? Please don't tell me that I have to delete all the events and relationships associated with that person before I can "remove" a person... -- View this message in context: http://gramps.1791082.n4.nabble.com/I-thought-deleting-people-was-easy-tp4665464.html Sent from the GRAMPS - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Put Bad Developers to Shame Dominate Development with Jenkins Continuous Integration Continuously Automate Build, Test & Deployment Start a new project now. Try Jenkins in the cloud. http://p.sf.net/sfu/13600_Cloudbees _______________________________________________ Gramps-users mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users

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Re: I thought deleting people was easy...

paul womack
In reply to this post by jerome
Jerome wrote:

> Note, there is also a tool (Remove unused records), which should make the expected actions at a glance with more control than a global related records deletion.

This doesn't remove citations (I think the tool was written pre-citation, and simply needs a slight extension)

  BugBear


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Re: I thought deleting people was easy...

jerome
True.
This type of records is not supported yet.

https://gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=7560

Not certain, it is "trivial" to develop it! Need some tests.
Anyway, this is missing and maybe should be supported.

Le mar. 8 avril 2014 at 10:16, paul womack <[hidden email]> a écrit :
Jerome wrote:
Note, there is also a tool (Remove unused records), which should make the expected actions at a glance with more control than a global related records deletion.
This doesn't remove citations (I think the tool was written pre-citation, and simply needs a slight extension) BugBear

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Re: I thought deleting people was easy...

jerome
In reply to this post by jerome
Sorry, the DBNotFoundError is specific to gramps 4.0.x (git)!

As said on your bug reports[1][2], to run:

- Rebuild Reference Maps
- Rebuild Secondary Indices

after your DB "check and repair", might be useful for such a "visual" issue (GUI and data).






Le mar. 8 avril 2014 at 10:16, Jerome <[hidden email]> a écrit :
OK, maybe it is related to last revisions (today/yesterday) on git...

You are running '3.4.8-git', right?

There is regressions according to some commits on git repository!
eg, one issue around:

    File "gramps/gen/db/write.py", line 1144, in __remove_reference
    self.reference_map.delete(key, txn=txn)
DBNotFoundError: (-30987, 'DB_NOTFOUND: No matching key/data pair found')

is back on last revisions ... :(

This might explain that you see blank lines (or a crash) via gramps-git!
-- View this message in context: http://gramps.1791082.n4.nabble.com/I-thought-deleting-people-was-easy-tp4665464.html Sent from the GRAMPS - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Put Bad Developers to Shame Dominate Development with Jenkins Continuous Integration Continuously Automate Build, Test & Deployment Start a new project now. Try Jenkins in the cloud. http://p.sf.net/sfu/13600_Cloudbees _______________________________________________ Gramps-users mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users

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Re: I thought deleting people was easy...

TJMcK
Thanks all for your quick responses.

I had ID#s hidden in the view, so that's why my rows were completely blank.  And you are right in that the events are deleted with the person, and the citations-references, and attributes are NOT deleted.  I will try and run the tool to see if this will help my situation -- as the hundred of blank lines are a bit of an annoyance (because of my large dbase). (I realize that I could create a filter, but filters slow down table rebuilds by about 2x -- so instead of 20 sec rebuild its a 45 sec view-table rebuild, not acceptable in my opinion.)
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Re: I thought deleting people was easy...

TJMcK
Let me give you an actual example of what I'm dealing with...

I have hundreds?? of people with the name "living" or "unknown".  In most cases I find such names to be problematic. (Ideally I would have deleted or edited these names before they were imported into Gramps.  The whole situation is complicated within gramps when I merge two people with children named "living" - the end result may be 12 "living' children.  Is this because there were multiple merges, or maybe it was that one of the merged people showed 11 "living" and the other merged person had one "living" (which may or may not be a duplicate).  Conclusion, my "living" individuals are a mess and I prefer to delete them (if they have no valuable events or notes).

So I chose to delete (or remove) them -- thinking they are gone and that I won't have to deal with them any longer, and that it will decrease the size of my database - ultimately making gramps run faster. :)  BUT, this is currently not true.  As all these deleted people become people with no names (and references, id#s, attributes, etc)!  And even worse many of the blank people are duplicated (and there is no way of knowing).

Do you see my predicament? How do you suggest I deal with this problem?
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Re: I thought deleting people was easy...

enno
> Do you see my predicament? How do you suggest I deal with this problem?

Well, first, you can tell what version of Gramps you use. I deleted loads of
people in my version, and never saw a problem like you report here.


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Re: I thought deleting people was easy...

TJMcK
Sorry, should tweak my profile...  I'm using v.3.4.7.