Implementing persona support in Gramps

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Implementing persona support in Gramps

Nick Hall
Devs,


I have started a GEPS for this:

GEPS 040: Persona Support
https://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=GEPS_040:_Persona_Support

It contains an email where I was trying to explain the concepts and my
thoughts.  (I apologise for the ASCII diagrams - they need improving)

I was hoping that GEPS 033: Abstract Database API would help with the
implementation.
https://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=GEPS_033:_Abstract_Database_API

If you are interested in this, please feel free to help.


Regards,


Nick.


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Re: Implementing persona support in Gramps

Emmanuel Briot
> GEPS 040: Persona Support
> https://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=GEPS_040:_Persona_Support
>
> It contains an email where I was trying to explain the concepts and my
> thoughts.  (I apologise for the ASCII diagrams - they need improving)


Nick,

I am very interested in seeing gramps adopt the concept of personas.
I am surprised that you haven't mentioned the GenTech data model
(http://www.ngsgenealogy.org/cs/GenTech_Projects) which is really all
about personas and assertions, and is a very thorough description of
all the concepts involved.

They haven't solved everything, and as far as I know there are no
end-user-usable product that use exactly this model with no
change. I have myself started a web-based prototype
(see in particular http://briot.github.io/geneapro/gentech.html where I
describe the pros of the gentech data model, and in particular how
I would propose to handle families -- the last question in the GEPS).

Also, this is really only the model. They (rightly so) make no proposal
as to how it should be implemented in practice (I have used a SQL database,
and optimized the queries as much as I knew), or more important for us
maybe what a GUI might look like.

I agree with you when you indicate that personas are not expected to change
all that much, once created from a source.

regards
Emmanuel


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Re: Implementing persona support in Gramps

ACProctor
In my opinion, Emmanuel, GenTech incorporated its version of personae in a
way that was limited and not conducive to the evolution of that data model's
scope.

I have undertaken much research and coding on this subject, and my own
views -- where personae are not just generalised to include other subject
entities (such as places, groups, & animals), but are incorporated into a
framework for general source assimilation and analysis -- may be read here:
http://parallax-viewpoint.blogspot.com/2015/12/our-days-of-future-passed-part-iii.html.
An older introduction to personae (updated after release of STEMMA V4) may
be found here:
http://parallax-viewpoint.blogspot.com/2013/09/genealogical-persona-non-grata.html.

    Tony Proctor

----- Original Message -----
From: "Emmanuel Briot" <[hidden email]>
To: "Nick Hall" <[hidden email]>
Cc: "Gramps Development List" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, January 22, 2016 9:27 AM
Subject: Re: [Gramps-devel] Implementing persona support in Gramps


>> GEPS 040: Persona Support
>> https://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=GEPS_040:_Persona_Support
>>
>> It contains an email where I was trying to explain the concepts and my
>> thoughts.  (I apologise for the ASCII diagrams - they need improving)
>
>
> Nick,
>
> I am very interested in seeing gramps adopt the concept of personas.
> I am surprised that you haven't mentioned the GenTech data model
> (http://www.ngsgenealogy.org/cs/GenTech_Projects) which is really all
> about personas and assertions, and is a very thorough description of
> all the concepts involved.
>
> They haven't solved everything, and as far as I know there are no
> end-user-usable product that use exactly this model with no
> change. I have myself started a web-based prototype
> (see in particular http://briot.github.io/geneapro/gentech.html where I
> describe the pros of the gentech data model, and in particular how
> I would propose to handle families -- the last question in the GEPS).
>
> Also, this is really only the model. They (rightly so) make no proposal
> as to how it should be implemented in practice (I have used a SQL
> database,
> and optimized the queries as much as I knew), or more important for us
> maybe what a GUI might look like.
>
> I agree with you when you indicate that personas are not expected to
> change
> all that much, once created from a source.
>
> regards
> Emmanuel
>
>
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel 


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Re: Implementing persona support in Gramps

Nick Hall
In reply to this post by Nick Hall
Thanks for your replies.

At the moment, the Forms gramplet enters information directly into the
conclusion layer in a single step process.  I would like to keep the
conclusion layer unchanged, and create a new evidence layer.

How should we enter source information?  For structured sources, we can
use a modified Forms editor.  I have also been working on an editor for
unstructured sources.  Any ideas are welcome.

How should source information be represented in the evidence layer? I
suggest we use a similar, but simplified version of the conclusion layer
objects.

Finally, how should the evidence layer be linked to the conclusion
layer?  What form should the proof arguments take?


Nick.


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Re: Implementing persona support in Gramps

Tim Lyons
Administrator
In reply to this post by Nick Hall
Nick,

I really like the census gramplet [1] because it simplifies data input, and results in clean data when output, for example in GEDCOM or the narrative web report.

I would be very concerned if the proposed persona support made data input or resultant data output more complicated.

I have a great deal of sympathy with the commenter who said that it took 10 to 30 editor windows to input some data. Sometimes it feels like there is just too much data to input to get decent records.

In a way, it feels as though Gramps is moving towards being a professional genealogy product and away from a tool that ordinary users can use. The whole concept of person and persona seems like something that will put Gramps beyond ordinary users.

I could imagine that with birth, marriage and death certificates, and a couple of census records, I could end up with five different birth events, all of which appear on the GEDCOM or web output. If you separate persona events from conclusion events, then I end up with six events. Trying to explain and understand this maze of events will be very complicated (something for professional genealogists only). Even if you say you will only show some events in some situations, the current object editors will still access all the events, and changing or fixing some mistake will be very complicated. I know that even with just the census gramplet, I have sometimes managed to get the data into a mess [2], and have great difficulty in understanding what data has been stored - and I [supposedly] understand the underlying Gramps data structures.

Regards,
Tim.



[1] I have been using the census gramplet for some time - not really started using the forms extension yet, hence I am referring to the census one.

[2] I think an example is where I have started to input some of the census data, and clicked OK or save before inputting most of it. I can just ignore the spurious extra data and start again (as Aunt Martha would), but Some other search or filter will
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Re: Implementing persona support in Gramps

Nick Hall
On 24/01/16 21:50, Tim Lyons wrote:

> I really like the census gramplet [1] because it simplifies data input, and
> results in clean data when output, for example in GEDCOM or the narrative
> web report.
>
> I would be very concerned if the proposed persona support made data input or
> resultant data output more complicated.
>
> I have a great deal of sympathy with the commenter who said that it took 10
> to 30 editor windows to input some data. Sometimes it feels like there is
> just too much data to input to get decent records.
>
> In a way, it feels as though Gramps is moving towards being a professional
> genealogy product and away from a tool that ordinary users can use. The
> whole concept of person and persona seems like something that will put
> Gramps beyond ordinary users.

Yes.  Designing a good intuitive user interface would be a challenge.  
We must always keep Aunt Martha in mind.

I think that I'm getting side-tracked here.  You have reminded me that
my time is probably better spent writing plugins that make things easier
for ordinary users.

Thank you for your feedback.


Nick.


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Re: Implementing persona support in Gramps

Benny Malengier


2016-01-25 0:53 GMT+01:00 Nick Hall <[hidden email]>:
On 24/01/16 21:50, Tim Lyons wrote:
> I really like the census gramplet [1] because it simplifies data input, and
> results in clean data when output, for example in GEDCOM or the narrative
> web report.
>
> I would be very concerned if the proposed persona support made data input or
> resultant data output more complicated.
>
> I have a great deal of sympathy with the commenter who said that it took 10
> to 30 editor windows to input some data. Sometimes it feels like there is
> just too much data to input to get decent records.
>
> In a way, it feels as though Gramps is moving towards being a professional
> genealogy product and away from a tool that ordinary users can use. The
> whole concept of person and persona seems like something that will put
> Gramps beyond ordinary users.

Yes.  Designing a good intuitive user interface would be a challenge.
We must always keep Aunt Martha in mind.

I think that I'm getting side-tracked here.  You have reminded me that
my time is probably better spent writing plugins that make things easier
for ordinary users.

What I sometimes think is that a git like diff view would already help a lot, without doing actual persona's.
In this case, you would store diffs on xml after eg each change or more general after each source ref addition/change. Then, when wondering about 'why does this person have name A from source a and not name B from source b, you could request in some way a history of the name. You would see when you added source a, if you renamed the person ever, how you changed data on adding source B ...
It is not as good as persona's, but would go a long way in better tracking how you reacted to addition of new sources, a before/after source present view, and an changes due to source overview (the user would have to link the source to all changes done though).
Is it really also needed to document why you do changes in persona's, could it not suffice to see the source, see how you reacted on it, and then you can draw your own conclusions again if you feel this is correct, or not.

Benny

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Re: Implementing persona support in Gramps

DS Blank
On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 4:49 AM, Benny Malengier <[hidden email]> wrote:


2016-01-25 0:53 GMT+01:00 Nick Hall <[hidden email]>:
On 24/01/16 21:50, Tim Lyons wrote:
> I really like the census gramplet [1] because it simplifies data input, and
> results in clean data when output, for example in GEDCOM or the narrative
> web report.
>
> I would be very concerned if the proposed persona support made data input or
> resultant data output more complicated.
>
> I have a great deal of sympathy with the commenter who said that it took 10
> to 30 editor windows to input some data. Sometimes it feels like there is
> just too much data to input to get decent records.
>
> In a way, it feels as though Gramps is moving towards being a professional
> genealogy product and away from a tool that ordinary users can use. The
> whole concept of person and persona seems like something that will put
> Gramps beyond ordinary users.

Yes.  Designing a good intuitive user interface would be a challenge.
We must always keep Aunt Martha in mind.

I think that I'm getting side-tracked here.  You have reminded me that
my time is probably better spent writing plugins that make things easier
for ordinary users.

What I sometimes think is that a git like diff view would already help a lot, without doing actual persona's.
In this case, you would store diffs on xml after eg each change or more general after each source ref addition/change. Then, when wondering about 'why does this person have name A from source a and not name B from source b, you could request in some way a history of the name. You would see when you added source a, if you renamed the person ever, how you changed data on adding source B ...
It is not as good as persona's, but would go a long way in better tracking how you reacted to addition of new sources, a before/after source present view, and an changes due to source overview (the user would have to link the source to all changes done though).
Is it really also needed to document why you do changes in persona's, could it not suffice to see the source, see how you reacted on it, and then you can draw your own conclusions again if you feel this is correct, or not.

I agree that functionality to help see the differences between items (and whole databases) can be very helpful in understanding our data in terms of evidence (see the Database Differences Report for example... needs human-useful refinements). I'm not sure it can take the place of persona, but in any event it would be useful. Working towards that end (using JSON rather than XML).

One extension I had in the first version of the webapp was that every change had to have a "commit message" (like in revision control systems). When viewing the object, the history of commit messages was available to see what and why something changed while it has been in Gramps. I think that would make a great option in core Gramps.

-Doug
 

Benny

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Re: Implementing persona support in Gramps

Nick Hall
In reply to this post by Benny Malengier
On 25/01/16 09:49, Benny Malengier wrote:

> What I sometimes think is that a git like diff view would already help
> a lot, without doing actual persona's.
> In this case, you would store diffs on xml after eg each change or
> more general after each source ref addition/change. Then, when
> wondering about 'why does this person have name A from source a and
> not name B from source b, you could request in some way a history of
> the name. You would see when you added source a, if you renamed the
> person ever, how you changed data on adding source B ...
> It is not as good as persona's, but would go a long way in better
> tracking how you reacted to addition of new sources, a before/after
> source present view, and an changes due to source overview (the user
> would have to link the source to all changes done though).
> Is it really also needed to document why you do changes in persona's,
> could it not suffice to see the source, see how you reacted on it, and
> then you can draw your own conclusions again if you feel this is
> correct, or not.
>

Anyone who uses the Census or Form gramplet is already creating
personae.  They are stored as attributes with the same citation in event
reference objects.  It is already easy to see how a name is recorded in
each source.

Our data model has a couple of restrictions that make further
enhancements to the functionality difficult:

1. Attributes are only able to store text.

At the moment I can only store the place of birth and age as text. I
would like to convert the age to a date and store a link with the
place.  This would open up possibilities.

2. Marriage events are attached to families instead of people.

I assume we do this because GEDCOM does.  It isn't intuitive.  What
people in the family are participants in a family event?  For a marriage
is is obvious, but what about a residence event.

There is GEPS for a change:

GEPS 035: Attach family events to individuals
https://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=GEPS_035:_Attach_family_events_to_individuals

I work around the issue in Forms by appending the word "Bride" to
attributes of the bride, and "Groom" to attributes of the groom. It's
messy, but it works.

3. The order of the participants in an event is not stored.

To save the participant order, I add an extra "hidden" attribute.
Unfortunately, the best I can do is set it to "private" which isn't ideal.

Perhaps we could make any attributes with a leading underscore hidden?



Nick.



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Re: Implementing persona support in Gramps

Tom Hughes
On 25/01/16 15:39, Nick Hall wrote:

> 2. Marriage events are attached to families instead of people.
>
> I assume we do this because GEDCOM does.  It isn't intuitive.  What
> people in the family are participants in a family event?  For a marriage
> is is obvious, but what about a residence event.

Surely marriage events are attached exactly where you choose to attach them?

I routinely attach them to the family with a role of Family and to the
participants with roles of Bride and Groom, and indeed to witnesses
where they are relatives, with a role of Witness.

Tom

--
Tom Hughes ([hidden email])
http://compton.nu/

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Re: Implementing persona support in Gramps

Nick Hall
On 25/01/16 15:57, Tom Hughes wrote:

>> 2. Marriage events are attached to families instead of people.
>>
>> I assume we do this because GEDCOM does.  It isn't intuitive. What
>> people in the family are participants in a family event?  For a marriage
>> is is obvious, but what about a residence event.
>
> Surely marriage events are attached exactly where you choose to attach
> them?
>
> I routinely attach them to the family with a role of Family and to the
> participants with roles of Bride and Groom, and indeed to witnesses
> where they are relatives, with a role of Witness.

If you use the Forms gramplet, it will attach a marriage event to a
family for the bride and groom, and people for the father of the bride
and groom, witnesses and clergy.

Reports will generally look for a marriage event attached to a family.

I didn't consider attaching the personae to the bride and groom as
people in addition to the family.  This may well provide an acceptable
solution.


Nick.


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Re: Implementing persona support in Gramps

Tim Lyons
Administrator
In reply to this post by Nick Hall
Nick Hall wrote
Yes.  Designing a good intuitive user interface would be a challenge.  
We must always keep Aunt Martha in mind.

I think that I'm getting side-tracked here.  You have reminded me that
my time is probably better spent writing plugins that make things easier
for ordinary users.

Thank you for your feedback.
Excellent!!! Thanks very much, I would appreciate that!

Can I recommend watching:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ON0A1dsQOV0
It is quite long but worth persevering with. It is a good example of some of the difficulties of our current user interface (having to open a new editor window for every change etc.). I do understand that their solution of changing the underlying UI platform is probably not possible for us (too much effort and too complicated), but nevertheless, perhaps there are some pointers here.



Also, AIUI, object locking in Gramps to prevent conflicting edits is done just by the existence of the editor windows. I understand that this restricts the possibility of making editors that edit more than one object at a time (e.g. allowing a person and the main events in his life to be edited at the same time). I wonder whether it might be helpful (or feasible) to introduce locking as a separate concept?


Regards,
Tim.
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Re: Implementing persona support in Gramps

Tim Lyons
Administrator
In reply to this post by Nick Hall
As far as marriage events are concerned, I have only used an early prototype of the forms gramplet, so the current version may not be the same, but the comments will probably still apply. (This also happens to be with Gramps 3.4.8).


Nick Hall wrote
Our data model has a couple of restrictions that make further
enhancements to the functionality difficult:

1. Attributes are only able to store text.

At the moment I can only store the place of birth and age as text. I
would like to convert the age to a date and store a link with the
place.  This would open up possibilities.
Why is this necessary? The gramplet has date and place input, so these can be used to store the date and place of birth. I don't think converting an age for a census input to a date is particularly helpful.

Nick Hall wrote
2. Marriage events are attached to families instead of people.

I assume we do this because GEDCOM does.  It isn't intuitive.  What
people in the family are participants in a family event?  For a marriage
is is obvious, but what about a residence event.

There is GEPS for a change:

GEPS 035: Attach family events to individuals
https://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=GEPS_035:_Attach_family_events_to_individuals

I work around the issue in Forms by appending the word "Bride" to
attributes of the bride, and "Groom" to attributes of the groom. It's
messy, but it works.
The gramplet that I have tried seems to end up with storing marriage events against both the family and the individual Bride and Groom. (This may be an error, or may be because I have done it wrong).

This is really confusing, especially when I look at the Family editor. I see the Marriage against Family, Father and Mother. I'm not sure what is recorded where or even if these are actually the same or different events. This is even more complicated, because if I double click on the Father or Mother Marriage event, it brings up the person editor, not the event editor, so I have to double click again to get the event to see what the actual gramps-id is. (I'm not sure whether the GEPS is saying that the event is actually stored against both Family and Bride+Groom, but is only shown against the Family. If that is the case, then I am not in favour of hiding things like that in the GUI, hidden things have a nasty way of popping up in unexpected places!)

It's similarly confusing if I look at the References in the Marriage event.

I'm not sure what the advantage of attaching the marriage event to people would be. As you say, the expectation from GEDCOM is that it is attached to the family, and when you import or export to GEDCOM, that is where it will be (and where some users of other programs would expect it to be). Also, changing it would mean that for existing databases, there would be a mixture of structures.

Nick Hall wrote
3. The order of the participants in an event is not stored.

To save the participant order, I add an extra "hidden" attribute.
Unfortunately, the best I can do is set it to "private" which isn't ideal.

Perhaps we could make any attributes with a leading underscore hidden?

I think this would be an excellent idea. I seem to recall that I had another 'internal' attribute (which I can't remember the details of) that I wanted to hide in this way, so it would be useful generally.

regards,
Tim.
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Re: Implementing persona support in Gramps

Nick Hall
In reply to this post by Tim Lyons
On 25/01/16 16:30, Tim Lyons wrote:
> Can I recommend watching:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ON0A1dsQOV0
> It is quite long but worth persevering with. It is a good example of some of
> the difficulties of our current user interface (having to open a new editor
> window for every change etc.). I do understand that their solution of
> changing the underlying UI platform is probably not possible for us (too
> much effort and too complicated), but nevertheless, perhaps there are some
> pointers here.

I have watched this.  Is there something about the interface you
particularly like?

Converting Gramps from Gtk to Qt would require a huge amount of effort.


Nick.


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Re: Implementing persona support in Gramps

Nick Hall
In reply to this post by Tim Lyons
On 25/01/16 17:44, Tim Lyons wrote:
>> 1. Attributes are only able to store text.
>> >
>> >At the moment I can only store the place of birth and age as text. I
>> >would like to convert the age to a date and store a link with the
>> >place.  This would open up possibilities.
> Why is this necessary? The gramplet has date and place input, so these can
> be used to store the date and place of birth. I don't think converting an
> age for a census input to a date is particularly helpful.
>

It depends what you want to use them for.

I like to check the consistency of all the date and place of birth
information for a person.  This can be done by visually comparing the
text, as I do at the moment.  However, if I had a real date of birth and
the place text linked to a place object, this could be done with a
tool.  The date of birth can usually be obtained from the date, but it
is not always a text representation of an integer.

I suppose it isn't necessary, but it would enable extra functionality
that be useful to me.


Nick.


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Re: Implementing persona support in Gramps

Nick Hall
In reply to this post by Tim Lyons
On 25/01/16 17:44, Tim Lyons wrote:
>> I work around the issue in Forms by appending the word "Bride" to
>> >attributes of the bride, and "Groom" to attributes of the groom. It's
>> >messy, but it works.
> The gramplet that I have tried seems to end up with storing marriage events
> against both the family and the individual Bride and Groom. (This may be an
> error, or may be because I have done it wrong).
>

I haven't written a definition to do this yet.

The bride and groom are stored in a family.  Their fathers, witnesses
and clergy are stored as people.

The Form stores personae in the event reference attributes of people.  
Family sections have a messy work-around using "Bride" and "Groom"
prefixes.  This only really works for marriage events.

Ideally, I would like to see the concept of a Family split into a Group
and Relationship.


Nick.


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Re: Implementing persona support in Gramps

Nick Hall
In reply to this post by Tim Lyons
On 25/01/16 17:44, Tim Lyons wrote:
>> 3. The order of the participants in an event is not stored.
>> >
>> >To save the participant order, I add an extra "hidden" attribute.
>> >Unfortunately, the best I can do is set it to "private" which isn't ideal.
>> >
>> >Perhaps we could make any attributes with a leading underscore hidden?
> I think this would be an excellent idea. I seem to recall that I had another
> 'internal' attribute (which I can't remember the details of) that I wanted
> to hide in this way, so it would be useful generally.

This is a very simple change to make.


Nick.


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Re: Implementing persona support in Gramps

Benny Malengier
In reply to this post by Nick Hall


2016-01-25 16:39 GMT+01:00 Nick Hall <[hidden email]>:

ith the same citation in event reference objects.  It is already easy to see how a name is recorded in each source.

Our data model has a couple of restrictions that make further enhancements to the functionality difficult:

1. Attributes are only able to store text.

At the moment I can only store the place of birth and age as text. I would like to convert the age to a date and store a link with the place.  This would open up possibilities.


I tried to get a GEP off the ground for subtype (one marriage event, with subtypes for types of marriages in different parts) several years ago. A lot of work to do that though ...
Perhaps we should work out a design again that allows us to do more, and is compatible with GEDCOM.
Eg, not only a Text field, but also a Data field based on an XML schema of a type-subtype? Then data fields can be generated in the same way as for Filters.

I would use . for hidden, and eg storing type and subtype as type.subtype to Gedcom. Then .type fits as hidden by lack of a root ;-)
To work out.

Benny



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Re: Implementing persona support in Gramps

Nick Hall
On 26/01/16 09:04, Benny Malengier wrote:
1. Attributes are only able to store text.

At the moment I can only store the place of birth and age as text. I would like to convert the age to a date and store a link with the place.  This would open up possibilities.


I tried to get a GEP off the ground for subtype (one marriage event, with subtypes for types of marriages in different parts) several years ago. A lot of work to do that though ...
Perhaps we should work out a design again that allows us to do more, and is compatible with GEDCOM.
Eg, not only a Text field, but also a Data field based on an XML schema of a type-subtype? Then data fields can be generated in the same way as for Filters.


How do we record source information?

The first step is transcription. We can identify information about people, events and the relationships between people in sources.  This can be stored in attributes of event reference and event objects.  I have been doing this since I first wrote the census addons in 2009, and it works quite well.  The Forms gramplet is really just a structured transcription editor.

The next step is interpretation.  From an age we can calculate a date range.  Given the text description of a place we can link to a place object.  We could also classify an event sub-type or occupation.  However, attributes only let us store text.  We really need the ability to store both the transcribed text and the interpretation.

What is the solution?

Take for example a residence in a baptism record.  The baptism event is the main event, and the residence is stored as text in the event reference objects of the mother and father.  There are a couple of options:

1. Create a residence event.
2. Create an additional hidden attribute to record the place handle.

Option 1 may lead to a large number of residence events, and option 2 will be visible in some reports.

Also consider the age and birth place attributes in a census record.  Do we really want to create multiple birth events?

My main priority is to create a tool that is useful and easy to use, but it would also be nice to integrate this neatly into Gramps.


Nick.


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Re: Implementing persona support in Gramps

Tim Lyons
Administrator
In reply to this post by Nick Hall
Nick Hall wrote
On 25/01/16 16:30, Tim Lyons wrote:
> Can I recommend watching:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ON0A1dsQOV0
> It is quite long but worth persevering with. It is a good example of some of
> the difficulties of our current user interface (having to open a new editor
> window for every change etc.). I do understand that their solution of
> changing the underlying UI platform is probably not possible for us (too
> much effort and too complicated), but nevertheless, perhaps there are some
> pointers here.

I have watched this.  Is there something about the interface you
particularly like?

Converting Gramps from Gtk to Qt would require a huge amount of effort.
Nick,

What I particularly like about the interface is the ability to edit information directly on the main display without having to open up a new editor for every change.

The first place I would like this is in the main category displays. For example, it should be possible to edit the main person names and birth and death dates in the main People category displays.

Secondly, it would be nice to have a single display that shows the main information about a person, and allows that information to be edited. For example, it could show events, children etc, and then it should be possible to edit and add without having to go into a separate editor. I have done a VERY quick and dirty Photoshop mock-up of what something like this might look like in:

https://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=GEPS_034:_Improve_usability#Reduce_the_number_of_editors

I envisage the data entry being something a bot like the Data Entry Gramplet, where you can simple enter the birth dates and names.

The main point is that for very simple users, it should be possible to enter the main information more simply. More 'professional' users would of course need to full power of the Gramps editors to define everything.

(I suspect that the main internal change needed is to implement a different object edit lock).

Regards,
Tim.
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