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Internet address in Source and Citation

PeterPower
Hi,
internet address and going to www page is in present a function of Archive category but not of Source or Citation. A planned restriction?

Digital Archives of the National Archives of Finland (http://digi.narc.fi/digi/?lang=en_US) contains today 18 400 000 files scanned from original documents.  I have problems to figure out how to record citation in Gramps so that a internet address points to a scanned page in Narc's service :

I take as example a marriage between Abraham Michelsson and Anna Jöransdotter,  date 15 oct 1849, in Akaa parish (go to http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=8737471). To my understanding

* Archive=Akaan seurakunnan arkisto (archive of Akaa parish)
* Source=Vihittyjen luettelot 1833-1885 (a record containing Marriages between 1833-1885)
* Citation=page 60

Where to type in the www address of above mentioned page and how retain it as a hyperlink?

Pekka







 


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Re: Internet address in Source and Citation

Alain AUPEIX
Le 02/03/2014 10:08, [hidden email] a écrit :
Hi,
internet address and going to www page is in present a function of Archive category but not of Source or Citation. A planned restriction?

Digital Archives of the National Archives of Finland (http://digi.narc.fi/digi/?lang=en_US) contains today 18 400 000 files scanned from original documents.  I have problems to figure out how to record citation in Gramps so that a internet address points to a scanned page in Narc's service :

I take as example a marriage between Abraham Michelsson and Anna Jöransdotter,  date 15 oct 1849, in Akaa parish (go to http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=8737471). To my understanding

* Archive=Akaan seurakunnan arkisto (archive of Akaa parish)
* Source=Vihittyjen luettelot 1833-1885 (a record containing Marriages between 1833-1885)
* Citation=page 60

Where to type in the www address of above mentioned page and how retain it as a hyperlink?

Pekka
It seems you refer to acts which are digitally conserved and viewable on line.
I don't use citation, nor source, but for example, all my events (birth, mariage or death) where register are on line, I put the url in the gallery of the event.

In fact, in France, for example, all the departments are free to use the online system they want, and for a few of one, it's not possible to have a direct url for the atc.

A+







 


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Re: Internet address in Source and Citation

PeterPower
In reply to this post by PeterPower
Do you copy the picture of archive page into gallery? It is just something I try to avoid because it makes my database huge. I find a hyperlink to most trustful archives as our Narc is more classy and efficient way. Was it not a banner of French revolution "Unite all archives in the world in Gramps" :-)
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Re: Internet address in Source and Citation

J. Allen Crider-2
In reply to this post by PeterPower
For any category, it is possible to include a link in a Note.  So it
would be possible to add a note to any citation that includes the link.

Allen

On 03/02/2014 03:08 AM, [hidden email] wrote:

> Hi,
> internet address and going to www page is in present a function of Archive category but not of Source or Citation. A planned restriction?
>
> Digital Archives of the National Archives of Finland (http://digi.narc.fi/digi/?lang=en_US) contains today 18 400 000 files scanned from original documents.  I have problems to figure out how to record citation in Gramps so that a internet address points to a scanned page in Narc's service :
>
> I take as example a marriage between Abraham Michelsson and Anna Jöransdotter,  date 15 oct 1849, in Akaa parish (go to http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=8737471). To my understanding
>
> * Archive=Akaan seurakunnan arkisto (archive of Akaa parish)
> * Source=Vihittyjen luettelot 1833-1885 (a record containing Marriages between 1833-1885)
> * Citation=page 60
>
> Where to type in the www address of above mentioned page and how retain it as a hyperlink?
>
> Pekka
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Monitor traffic, SLAs, QoS, Medianet, WAAS etc. with NetFlow Analyzer
> Customize your own dashboards, set traffic alerts and generate reports.
> Network behavioral analysis & security monitoring. All-in-one tool.
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>


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Re: Internet address in Source and Citation

Alain AUPEIX
In reply to this post by PeterPower
Le 02/03/2014 12:51, [hidden email] a écrit :
Do you copy the picture of archive page into gallery? It is just something I try to avoid because it makes my database huge. I find a hyperlink to most trustful archives as our Narc is more classy and efficient way. Was it not a banner of French revolution "Unite all archives in the world in Gramps" :-)
No, I just put the url ...
The French Revolution is far ... and money is money. For informations which I consider as public, and  ... free, some departments ask for money to consult. It's a revolting ... another revolution to do ?

A+

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Re: Internet address in Source and Citation

Robby
In reply to this post by PeterPower
You could use source/notes or citation/notes ?



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Re: Internet address in Source and Citation

Nate Finch
In reply to this post by PeterPower
I always copy images etc off the internet and put copies in gramps.  You can't trust that internet sites won't go away, or, what's even more likely, that the page will move to a different address.  This happens all. the. time.   URLs (hyperlinks) aren't a very stable way to store information.  Maybe it used to be http://somewhere.com/census/1890   and now it's http://somewhere.com/census.php?year=1890  or even more difficult changes.  Never trust URLs.

What I do, is I put in both.  That way I have the link if it still works, and I have the image as a backup (also nice because then you don't have to go to the page to see the image).


On Sun, Mar 2, 2014 at 6:51 AM, <[hidden email]> wrote:
Do you copy the picture of archive page into gallery? It is just something I try to avoid because it makes my database huge. I find a hyperlink to most trustful archives as our Narc is more classy and efficient way. Was it not a banner of French revolution "Unite all archives in the world in Gramps" :-)
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Re: Internet address in Source and Citation

enno
In reply to this post by PeterPower
Hi Pekka,
> internet address and going to www page is in present a function of Archive category but not of Source or Citation. A planned restriction?
I think yes. In GEDCOM a url can be part of an address, and in the
source domain addresses are only available for archives (repositories).
> Where to type in the www address of above mentioned page and how retain it as a hyperlink?
I put them in notes, like most of the others who replied. When you
select the notes Gramplet at the bottom of your views, you can click
urls right away.

cheers,

Enno


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Re: Internet address in Source and Citation

PeterPower
In reply to this post by PeterPower
Thanks a lot,
hyperlink in Source Note and in Citation Note does what I was looking after. Enno's remark about following beloved Gedcom standard was also instructive.

Pekka


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Re: Internet address in Source and Citation

jerome
In reply to this post by Alain AUPEIX
 > In fact, in France, for example, all the departments are free to use
the online system they want, and for a few of one, it's not possible to
have a direct url for the atc.

It tends to be fixed, some are trying to provide a permalink, sometimes
for working in relation with this:
http://classify.oclc.org/classify2/api_docs/index.html
http://classify.oclc.org/classify2/api_docs/classifySample.py

e,g.
http://classify.oclc.org/classify2/ClassifyDemo?search-author-txt="Archives+départementales+des+Vosges"

The massive usage of flash into archives is more bothering me...



Le dim. 2 mars 2014 at 10:43, Alain Aupeix <[hidden email]> a
écrit :

> Le 02/03/2014 10:08, [hidden email] a écrit :
>> Hi,
>> internet address and going to www page is in present a function of
>> Archive category but not of Source or Citation. A planned
>> restriction?
>>
>> Digital Archives of the National Archives of Finland
>> (http://digi.narc.fi/digi/?lang=en_US) contains today 18 400 000
>> files scanned from original documents.  I have problems to figure
>> out how to record citation in Gramps so that a internet address
>> points to a scanned page in Narc's service :
>>
>> I take as example a marriage between Abraham Michelsson and Anna
>> Jöransdotter,  date 15 oct 1849, in Akaa parish (go to
>> http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=8737471). To my understanding
>>
>> * Archive=Akaan seurakunnan arkisto (archive of Akaa parish)
>> * Source=Vihittyjen luettelot 1833-1885 (a record containing
>> Marriages between 1833-1885)
>> * Citation=page 60
>>
>> Where to type in the www address of above mentioned page and how
>> retain it as a hyperlink?
>>
>> Pekka
>>
>  It seems you refer to acts which are digitally conserved and
> viewable on line.
> I don't use citation, nor source, but for example, all my events
> (birth, mariage or death) where register are on line, I put the url
> in the gallery of the event.
>
> In fact, in France, for example, all the departments are free to use
> the online system they want, and for a few of one, it's not possible
> to have a direct url for the atc.
>
> A+
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Flow-based real-time traffic analytics software. Cisco certified
>> tool.
>> Monitor traffic, SLAs, QoS, Medianet, WAAS etc. with NetFlow Analyzer
>> Customize your own dashboards, set traffic alerts and generate
>> reports.
>> Network behavioral analysis & security monitoring. All-in-one tool.
>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=126839071&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gramps-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
>>
>>
>  
>
> --
> Alain Aupeix
> http://jujuland.pagesperso-orange.fr/
> http://pissobi-lacassagne.pagesperso-orange.fr/
> U.buntu 12.04 | G.ramps 3.4.6-1 | H.arbour 3.2.0dev (2014-02-03
> 22:06) | HbIDE (Rev.279) | Five.Linux (r138) | Hw.Gui (2222)
>


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Re: Internet address in Source and Citation

Alain AUPEIX
Le 04/03/2014 11:07, Jerome a écrit :
> In fact, in France, for example, all the departments are free to use the online system they want, and for a few of one, it's not possible to have a direct url for the atc.

It tends to be fixed, some are trying to provide a permalink, sometimes for working in relation with this:
http://classify.oclc.org/classify2/api_docs/index.html
http://classify.oclc.org/classify2/api_docs/classifySample.py

e,g. http://classify.oclc.org/classify2/ClassifyDemo?search-author-txt="Archives+départementales+des+Vosges"

The massive usage of flash into archives is more bothering me...
Me too, but some can easier be used using direct link to images.
For example AD using Pleade (AD24, AD27, and probably some others)
Exemple
http://archives-num.cg24.fr/pleade342/img-viewer/etat-civil/La_Coquille/FRAD02410_5MI12801_001/viewer.html page 1
Right clicking on the image gives the link of the image:
http://archives-num.cg24.fr/pleade342/img-server/__thumbs__/default/etat-civil/La_Coquille/FRAD02410_5MI12801_001/FRAD024_5MI12801_001_0001_2.JPG?r=0
Choosing the original image (better quality), the url is
http://archives-num.cg24.fr/pleade342/img-server/etat-civil/La_Coquille/FRAD02410_5MI12801_001/FRAD024_5MI12801_001_0001_2.JPG

So it's easy then to access directly to an image from Gramps.
I personnaly don't use it exactly as it, I prefer to keep the image, that I put in a media folder, and as note, I just enter a small string giving the register number and the page number (repeated for each different pages, if needed)

So, I don' access to the link directly (no needed, as I have locally the image), but when I export to a ged file, I use a tool I wrote in Harbour to clean the gedfile from the infos not or badly handled by geneanet, and to modify the small info to a complete url. It's easier to read in Gramps, and works correctly in geneanet.

You can see my tree in geneanet, where the registers are located at the bottom of the pages.

Example:
http://gw.geneanet.org/jujuland_w?lang=fr;pz=xxx+souche;nz=aupeix;ocz=0;p=pierre;n=aupeix;oc=1

Unfortunately, all the departments don't use such programs as pleade, and a few need each time to login before being able to view images (Lot). Others wants money, which is scandalous, as it's public datas (Calvados).

A+
--

Alain Aupeix
http://jujuland.pagesperso-orange.fr/
http://pissobi-lacassagne.pagesperso-orange.fr/

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Re: Internet address in Source and Citation

jerome

> Others wants money, which is scandalous

I do not think that asking money for an online access is scandalous. Remember the cost of photocopies, some years ago; maybe this was more scandalous! Also access to archives are always free. I do not know if all departments should support the cost of servers, maintenance. Sure, some partnerships make some online sources more private than public, but it seems correct until the access to sources are still free in France.

Maybe you have missed that french archives asking money do not have restrictions when you go on their adresses (physical locations): they provide a web interface on their local network. I suppose it makes sense when you do not or cannot keep a web serveur.




Le Mardi 4 mars 2014 15h46, Alain Aupeix <[hidden email]> a écrit :
Le 04/03/2014 11:07, Jerome a écrit :
> In fact, in France, for example, all the departments are free to use the online system they want, and for a few of one, it's not possible to have a direct url for the atc.

It tends to be fixed, some are trying to provide a permalink, sometimes for working in relation with this:
http://classify.oclc.org/classify2/api_docs/index.html
http://classify.oclc.org/classify2/api_docs/classifySample.py

e,g. http://classify.oclc.org/classify2/ClassifyDemo?search-author-txt="Archives+départementales+des+Vosges"

The massive usage of flash into archives is more bothering me...
Me too, but some can easier be used using direct link to images.
For example AD using Pleade (AD24, AD27, and probably some others)
Exemple
http://archives-num.cg24.fr/pleade342/img-viewer/etat-civil/La_Coquille/FRAD02410_5MI12801_001/viewer.html page 1
Right clicking on the image gives the link of the image:
http://archives-num.cg24.fr/pleade342/img-server/__thumbs__/default/etat-civil/La_Coquille/FRAD02410_5MI12801_001/FRAD024_5MI12801_001_0001_2.JPG?r=0
Choosing the original image (better quality), the url is
http://archives-num.cg24.fr/pleade342/img-server/etat-civil/La_Coquille/FRAD02410_5MI12801_001/FRAD024_5MI12801_001_0001_2.JPG

So it's easy then to access directly to an image from Gramps.
I personnaly don't use it exactly as it, I prefer to keep the image, that I put in a media folder, and as note, I just enter a small string giving the register number and the page number (repeated for each different pages, if needed)

So, I don' access to the link directly (no needed, as I have locally the image), but when I export to a ged file, I use a tool I wrote in Harbour to clean the gedfile from the infos not or badly handled by geneanet, and to modify the small info to a complete url. It's easier to read in Gramps, and works correctly in geneanet.

You can see my tree in geneanet, where the registers are located at the bottom of the pages.

Example:
http://gw.geneanet.org/jujuland_w?lang=fr;pz=xxx+souche;nz=aupeix;ocz=0;p=pierre;n=aupeix;oc=1

Unfortunately, all the departments don't use such programs as pleade, and a few need each time to login before being able to view images (Lot). Others wants money, which is scandalous, as it's public datas (Calvados).


A+


U.buntu 12.04 | G.ramps 3.4.6-1 | H.arbour 3.2.0dev (2014-02-26 22:56) | HbIDE (Rev.279) | Five.Linux (r138) | Hw.Gui (2223)




------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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freedom to use Git, Perforce or both. Make the move to Perforce.
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Re: Internet address in Source and Citation

Alain AUPEIX
Le 05/03/2014 12:00, jerome a écrit :

> Others wants money, which is scandalous

I do not think that asking money for an online access is scandalous. Remember the cost of photocopies, some years ago; maybe this was more scandalous! Also access to archives are always free. I do not know if all departments should support the cost of servers, maintenance. Sure, some partnerships make some online sources more private than public, but it seems correct until the access to sources are still free in France.

Maybe you have missed that french archives asking money do not have restrictions when you go on their adresses (physical locations): they provide a web interface on their local network. I suppose it makes sense when you do not or cannot keep a web serveur.
Don't forget that these datas are public and the cost has already been paid by taxes ...

A+
--

Alain Aupeix
http://jujuland.pagesperso-orange.fr/
http://pissobi-lacassagne.pagesperso-orange.fr/

U.buntu 12.04 | G.ramps 3.4.6-1 | H.arbour 3.2.0dev (2014-02-26 22:56) | HbIDE (Rev.279) | Five.Linux (r138) | Hw.Gui (2223)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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With Perforce, you get hassle-free workflows. Merge that actually works.
Faster operations. Version large binaries.  Built-in WAN optimization and the
freedom to use Git, Perforce or both. Make the move to Perforce.
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Re: Internet address in Source and Citation

Serge Noiraud-2
Hi,

Le 05/03/2014 12:31, Alain Aupeix a écrit :
Le 05/03/2014 12:00, jerome a écrit :

> Others wants money, which is scandalous

I do not think that asking money for an online access is scandalous. Remember the cost of photocopies, some years ago; maybe this was more scandalous! Also access to archives are always free. I do not know if all departments should support the cost of servers, maintenance. Sure, some partnerships make some online sources more private than public, but it seems correct until the access to sources are still free in France.

Maybe you have missed that french archives asking money do not have restrictions when you go on their adresses (physical locations): they provide a web interface on their local network. I suppose it makes sense when you do not or cannot keep a web serveur.
Don't forget that these datas are public and the cost has already been paid by taxes ...
Agree, so +1

A+
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Serge

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Re: Internet address in Source and Citation

jerome
In reply to this post by Alain AUPEIX
True, in France, sources storage and maybe numerisations are paid by taxes. To provide a free access via web is something else. Who maintain this 24/24 hours access?

" Il y a d'abord une explication financière : en deux ans et demi, depuis l'ouverture du site en juin 2008 jusqu'à décembre 2010, le coût d'exploitation du site Web et des archives en ligne s'est monté à 78.406 euros, tandis que les recettes procurées par la vente des abonnements aux usagers se sont élevées à 40.106 euros. "Les élus ont considéré que ce service était quasiment amorti et donc que le payant ne se justifiait plus", commente le département. "

http://geneinfos.typepad.fr/geneinfos/2011/06/les-archives-de-meurthe-et-moselle-passent-au-gratuit-.html

* ~24 000€/year for the web service
* 101 counties + x cities + x national collections and indexes

Even paid by taxes, we should take care of differences between some real private models and the current one, no?

There was few reactions about deal around SWIC...
http://geneinfos.typepad.fr/geneinfos/2007/06/notrefamille-ac.html



Le Mercredi 5 mars 2014 12h31, Alain Aupeix <[hidden email]> a écrit :
Le 05/03/2014 12:00, jerome a écrit :

> Others wants money, which is scandalous

I do not think that asking money for an online access is scandalous. Remember the cost of photocopies, some years ago; maybe this was more scandalous! Also access to archives are always free. I do not know if all departments should support the cost of servers, maintenance. Sure, some partnerships make some online sources more private than public, but it seems correct until the access to sources are still free in France.

Maybe you have missed that french archives asking money do not have restrictions when you go on their adresses (physical locations): they provide a web interface on their local network. I suppose it makes sense when you do not or cannot keep a web serveur.
Don't forget that these datas are public and the cost has already been paid by taxes ...


A+
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Alain Aupeix
http://jujuland.pagesperso-orange.fr/
http://pissobi-lacassagne.pagesperso-orange.fr/

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freedom to use Git, Perforce or both. Make the move to Perforce.
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