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Is there a maximum to the number of id numbers of a given kind that Gramps supports?

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Is there a maximum to the number of id numbers of a given kind that Gramps supports?

John W. Kitz-3
Hi,

Id. numbers in Gramps adhere to the format <letter><four-digits>, where the
letter is e.g. S for 'source', C for 'Citation, I for 'Individual', F for
'Family', etc., which suggests that the maximum number of citations,
sources, individuals or families that can be stored in a single Gramps
database is 9999.

Is this number a fixed limit or does it expand automatically when the
current maximum value is reached?

If it doesn't expand automatically are there ways to expand it manually or
is the only alternative to split one's data in multiple databases?

Regards, Jk.


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Re: Is there a maximum to the number of id numbers of a given kind that Gramps supports?

Ken
It does extend automatically.

I have one database of over one million individuals.
Not my work but a collaboration of thousands.

Ken

On 24/03/17 03:06 AM, John W. Kitz wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Id. numbers in Gramps adhere to the format <letter><four-digits>, where the
> letter is e.g. S for 'source', C for 'Citation, I for 'Individual', F for
> 'Family', etc., which suggests that the maximum number of citations,
> sources, individuals or families that can be stored in a single Gramps
> database is 9999.
>
> Is this number a fixed limit or does it expand automatically when the
> current maximum value is reached?
>
> If it doesn't expand automatically are there ways to expand it manually or
> is the only alternative to split one's data in multiple databases?
>
> Regards, Jk.
>
>
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Re: Is there a maximum to the number of id numbers of a given kind that Gramps supports?

Ron Johnson
In reply to this post by John W. Kitz-3

Also, you can increase the size from 4 to 5 and Gramps IIRC automagically
reformats every ID.

On 03/24/2017 05:19 AM, Ken Bergen wrote:

> It does extend automatically.
>
> I have one database of over one million individuals.
> Not my work but a collaboration of thousands.
>
> Ken
>
> On 24/03/17 03:06 AM, John W. Kitz wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Id. numbers in Gramps adhere to the format <letter><four-digits>, where the
>> letter is e.g. S for 'source', C for 'Citation, I for 'Individual', F for
>> 'Family', etc., which suggests that the maximum number of citations,
>> sources, individuals or families that can be stored in a single Gramps
>> database is 9999.
>>
>> Is this number a fixed limit or does it expand automatically when the
>> current maximum value is reached?
>>
>> If it doesn't expand automatically are there ways to expand it manually or
>> is the only alternative to split one's data in multiple databases?
>>
>> Regards, Jk.

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Re: Is there a maximum to the number of id numbers of a given kind that Gramps supports?

Ken
In reply to this post by John W. Kitz-3
That is not the case or at least it wasn't.

I just tested and changing to five digits only affected new entries.
I built the large database from a gedcom file and it started with four
digits  and when they were all used started using five digits etc etc

Ken

On 24/03/17 04:36 AM, Ron Johnson wrote:

> Also, you can increase the size from 4 to 5 and Gramps IIRC automagically
> reformats every ID.
>
> On 03/24/2017 05:19 AM, Ken Bergen wrote:
>> It does extend automatically.
>>
>> I have one database of over one million individuals.
>> Not my work but a collaboration of thousands.
>>
>> Ken
>>
>> On 24/03/17 03:06 AM, John W. Kitz wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Id. numbers in Gramps adhere to the format <letter><four-digits>, where the
>>> letter is e.g. S for 'source', C for 'Citation, I for 'Individual', F for
>>> 'Family', etc., which suggests that the maximum number of citations,
>>> sources, individuals or families that can be stored in a single Gramps
>>> database is 9999.
>>>
>>> Is this number a fixed limit or does it expand automatically when the
>>> current maximum value is reached?
>>>
>>> If it doesn't expand automatically are there ways to expand it manually or
>>> is the only alternative to split one's data in multiple databases?
>>>
>>> Regards, Jk.


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Re: Is there a maximum to the number of id numbers of a given kind that Gramps supports?

Philippe Couka
In reply to this post by Ron Johnson
H
​i

2017-03-24 12:36 GMT+01:00 Ron Johnson <[hidden email]>:

Also, you can increase the size from 4 to 5 and Gramps IIRC automagically
reformats every ID.


​Yes, if you only keep a 4 size, sorting by id will return painful results: I10000 comes before I2000, which could be, in my opinion, considered a bug.

With a 5 size, I10000 comes after I02000.

Best regards

phcook


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Re: Is there a maximum to the number of id numbers of a given kind that Gramps supports?

Ron Johnson
In reply to this post by John W. Kitz-3

All I can say is that my Individual IDs were renumbered.  (This was 4.2.4 or
4.2.5.)

On 03/24/2017 07:49 AM, Ken Bergen wrote:

> That is not the case or at least it wasn't.
>
> I just tested and changing to five digits only affected new entries.
> I built the large database from a gedcom file and it started with four
> digits  and when they were all used started using five digits etc etc
>
> Ken
>
> On 24/03/17 04:36 AM, Ron Johnson wrote:
>> Also, you can increase the size from 4 to 5 and Gramps IIRC automagically
>> reformats every ID.
>>
>> On 03/24/2017 05:19 AM, Ken Bergen wrote:
>>> It does extend automatically.
>>>
>>> I have one database of over one million individuals.
>>> Not my work but a collaboration of thousands.
>>>
>>> Ken
>>>
>>> On 24/03/17 03:06 AM, John W. Kitz wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> Id. numbers in Gramps adhere to the format <letter><four-digits>, where the
>>>> letter is e.g. S for 'source', C for 'Citation, I for 'Individual', F for
>>>> 'Family', etc., which suggests that the maximum number of citations,
>>>> sources, individuals or families that can be stored in a single Gramps
>>>> database is 9999.
>>>>
>>>> Is this number a fixed limit or does it expand automatically when the
>>>> current maximum value is reached?
>>>>
>>>> If it doesn't expand automatically are there ways to expand it manually or
>>>> is the only alternative to split one's data in multiple databases?
>>>>
>>>> Regards, Jk.
>>>>

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Re: Is there a maximum to the number of id numbers of a given kind that Gramps supports?

Dave Scheipers
In reply to this post by John W. Kitz-3
Hi John

You can change ID formats under preferences. I've changed all mine to 6 digit numbers. This solves the problem of filtering for a shorter number that is also shared by longer numbers. Hopefully I'll never have to alter it to a seven digit number. You can also change the leading letters. I changed media items from O to M for media. I don't like the I for individuals. It looks to much like a 1 which is why these letters are banned from license plates. I haven't settled on another option; A for Ancestor ?? G for Gramps ??

Once you have set the preferences, run Tools >> Family Tree Processing >> Reorder Gramps IDs

As always, Backup first.

I've started using GetGOV to bring my European places to reflect changes through time. GetGOV replaces the ID's with the code for the place which it then uses to automatically link new places.

I have no idea what will happen with these ID's if I run Reorder Gramps IDs again.

Hope this helps, Dave



On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 6:06 AM, John W. Kitz <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

Id. numbers in Gramps adhere to the format <letter><four-digits>, where the
letter is e.g. S for 'source', C for 'Citation, I for 'Individual', F for
'Family', etc., which suggests that the maximum number of citations,
sources, individuals or families that can be stored in a single Gramps
database is 9999.

Is this number a fixed limit or does it expand automatically when the
current maximum value is reached?

If it doesn't expand automatically are there ways to expand it manually or
is the only alternative to split one's data in multiple databases?

Regards, Jk.


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Re: Is there a maximum to the number of id numbers of a given kind that Gramps supports?

Ron Johnson
In reply to this post by John W. Kitz-3

I changed "O" to "M" since "O" looks like "0".

For the same reason as you, I wanted to change "I" to "P" (Person), but of course "P" is already used by Place.  "A" is not good because we aren't all each other's ancestor.  "H" for Human would work (except for Paul Womack, who thinks that Ships are People, too).

On 03/24/2017 08:22 AM, Dave Scheipers wrote:
Hi John

You can change ID formats under preferences. I've changed all mine to 6 digit numbers. This solves the problem of filtering for a shorter number that is also shared by longer numbers. Hopefully I'll never have to alter it to a seven digit number. You can also change the leading letters. I changed media items from O to M for media. I don't like the I for individuals. It looks to much like a 1 which is why these letters are banned from license plates. I haven't settled on another option; A for Ancestor ?? G for Gramps ??

Once you have set the preferences, run Tools >> Family Tree Processing >> Reorder Gramps IDs

As always, Backup first.

I've started using GetGOV to bring my European places to reflect changes through time. GetGOV replaces the ID's with the code for the place which it then uses to automatically link new places.

I have no idea what will happen with these ID's if I run Reorder Gramps IDs again.

Hope this helps, Dave



On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 6:06 AM, John W. Kitz <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

Id. numbers in Gramps adhere to the format <letter><four-digits>, where the
letter is e.g. S for 'source', C for 'Citation, I for 'Individual', F for
'Family', etc., which suggests that the maximum number of citations,
sources, individuals or families that can be stored in a single Gramps
database is 9999.

Is this number a fixed limit or does it expand automatically when the
current maximum value is reached?

If it doesn't expand automatically are there ways to expand it manually or
is the only alternative to split one's data in multiple databases?

Regards, Jk.

-- 
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Re: Is there a maximum to the number of id numbers of a given kind that Gramps supports?

paul womack
Ron Johnson wrote:
>
> I changed "O" to "M" since "O" looks like "0".
>
> For the same reason as you, I wanted to change "I" to "P" (Person), but of course "P" is already used by Place.  "A" is not good because we aren't all each other's ancestor.  "H" for Human would work (except for Paul Womack, who thinks that Ships are People, too).

HMS ?

  BugBear


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Re: Is there a maximum to the number of id numbers of a given kind that Gramps supports?

Ron Johnson
In reply to this post by Ron Johnson
On 03/24/2017 09:49 AM, paul womack wrote:

> Ron Johnson wrote:
>>
>> I changed "O" to "M" since "O" looks like "0".
>>
>> For the same reason as you, I wanted to change "I" to "P" (Person), but
>> of course "P" is already used by Place.  "A" is not good because we
>> aren't all each other's ancestor.  "H" for Human would work (except for
>> Paul Womack, who thinks that Ships are People, too).
>
> HMS ?

Gotta love that Anglocentrism...  :)

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Re: Is there a maximum to the number of id numbers of a given kind that Gramps supports?

Dave Scheipers
In reply to this post by Dave Scheipers
Hi All,

I just reran the Reorder Gramps IDs tool. I had a few places that were added and then merged after using GetGOV. getGov set the ID with the place code used by Historic Gazetteer and automatically merges the info with subsequent place retrievals.

Reorder Gramps IDs  OVERWROTE the GetGOV Id's and set a new ID per the Gramps set preferences.

Now I know and now you do too, Dave

On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 9:22 AM, Dave Scheipers <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi John

You can change ID formats under preferences. I've changed all mine to 6 digit numbers. This solves the problem of filtering for a shorter number that is also shared by longer numbers. Hopefully I'll never have to alter it to a seven digit number. You can also change the leading letters. I changed media items from O to M for media. I don't like the I for individuals. It looks to much like a 1 which is why these letters are banned from license plates. I haven't settled on another option; A for Ancestor ?? G for Gramps ??

Once you have set the preferences, run Tools >> Family Tree Processing >> Reorder Gramps IDs

As always, Backup first.

I've started using GetGOV to bring my European places to reflect changes through time. GetGOV replaces the ID's with the code for the place which it then uses to automatically link new places.

I have no idea what will happen with these ID's if I run Reorder Gramps IDs again.

Hope this helps, Dave



On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 6:06 AM, John W. Kitz <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

Id. numbers in Gramps adhere to the format <letter><four-digits>, where the
letter is e.g. S for 'source', C for 'Citation, I for 'Individual', F for
'Family', etc., which suggests that the maximum number of citations,
sources, individuals or families that can be stored in a single Gramps
database is 9999.

Is this number a fixed limit or does it expand automatically when the
current maximum value is reached?

If it doesn't expand automatically are there ways to expand it manually or
is the only alternative to split one's data in multiple databases?

Regards, Jk.


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Re: Is there a maximum to the number of id numbers of a given kind that Gramps supports?

Doug-11
In reply to this post by Ron Johnson
On 24/03/17 16:00, Ron Johnson wrote:

> On 03/24/2017 09:49 AM, paul womack wrote:
>> Ron Johnson wrote:
>>> I changed "O" to "M" since "O" looks like "0".
>>>
>>> For the same reason as you, I wanted to change "I" to "P" (Person), but
>>> of course "P" is already used by Place.  "A" is not good because we
>>> aren't all each other's ancestor.  "H" for Human would work (except for
>>> Paul Womack, who thinks that Ships are People, too).
>> HMS ?
> Gotta love that Anglocentrism...  :)
>
Well, *I* think that ships are Event Descriptions.
You've got to allow the Brits their little
eccentricities............:)

Doug

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Re: Is there a maximum to the number of id numbers of a given kind that Gramps supports?

John W. Kitz-3
In reply to this post by Dave Scheipers
Dave,

On 2017-03-24 14:22, Dave Scheipers wrote:

> Hi John
>
> You can change ID formats under preferences. I've changed all mine to
> 6 digit numbers. This solves the problem of filtering for a shorter
> number that is also shared by longer numbers. Hopefully I'll never
> have to alter it to a seven digit number. You can also change the
> leading letters. I changed media items from O to M for media. I don't
> like the I for individuals. It looks to much like a 1 which is why
> these letters are banned from license plates. I haven't settled on
> another option; A for Ancestor ?? G for Gramps ??
>
> Once you have set the preferences, run Tools >> Family Tree Processing
>>> Reorder Gramps IDs
>
> As always, Backup first.
>
> I've started using GetGOV to bring my European places to reflect
> changes through time. GetGOV replaces the ID's with the code for the
> place which it then uses to automatically link new places.
>
> I have no idea what will happen with these ID's if I run Reorder
> Gramps IDs again.
>
> Hope this helps, Dave
>
I found what you're referring to and for the time being that answers my
question, so tnx. it does.

As a follow on question do you happen to known if deleted id. numbers
are reused at some point?

I'm asking because even though I ran 'Reorder Gramps IDs' there are
still gaps in the sequence of numbers that is in use. While this is not
an issue in itself, I'm curious since it does affect 'the speed' at
which id. numbers are used.

Regards, Jk.

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Re: Is there a maximum to the number of id numbers of a given kind that Gramps supports?

Dave Scheipers
No, ID's are not reused. At least for people, after I merge someone, I'll manually set that ID into next person I add or assign it to the last person in the list. When I first ran the reorder tool, I too thought that's what it would do, re sort. I have all my ID's at 6 digits. I'm not worrying about going past 999,999 people. But events?

Dave

On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 5:20 PM, John W. Kitz <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dave,

On 2017-03-24 14:22, Dave Scheipers wrote:
> Hi John
>
> You can change ID formats under preferences. I've changed all mine to
> 6 digit numbers. This solves the problem of filtering for a shorter
> number that is also shared by longer numbers. Hopefully I'll never
> have to alter it to a seven digit number. You can also change the
> leading letters. I changed media items from O to M for media. I don't
> like the I for individuals. It looks to much like a 1 which is why
> these letters are banned from license plates. I haven't settled on
> another option; A for Ancestor ?? G for Gramps ??
>
> Once you have set the preferences, run Tools >> Family Tree Processing
>>> Reorder Gramps IDs
>
> As always, Backup first.
>
> I've started using GetGOV to bring my European places to reflect
> changes through time. GetGOV replaces the ID's with the code for the
> place which it then uses to automatically link new places.
>
> I have no idea what will happen with these ID's if I run Reorder
> Gramps IDs again.
>
> Hope this helps, Dave
>
I found what you're referring to and for the time being that answers my
question, so tnx. it does.

As a follow on question do you happen to known if deleted id. numbers
are reused at some point?

I'm asking because even though I ran 'Reorder Gramps IDs' there are
still gaps in the sequence of numbers that is in use. While this is not
an issue in itself, I'm curious since it does affect 'the speed' at
which id. numbers are used.

Regards, Jk.

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Re: Is there a maximum to the number of id numbers of a given kind that Gramps supports?

John W. Kitz-3
Dave,

On 2017-03-24 22:40, Dave Scheipers wrote:
> No, ID's are not reused. At least for people, after I merge someone,
> I'll manually set that ID into next person I add or assign it to the
> last person in the list. When I first ran the reorder tool, I too
> thought that's what it would do, re sort. I have all my ID's at 6
> digits. I'm not worrying about going past 999,999 people. But events?
>
> Dave

At this time I don't expect to gather data for more than a couple of
hundred individuals, so for now I'm not too concerned to exceed the
maximum id. numbers available of each type using the default value of 4
digits.

But I've been tinkering for quite some time to get the sources and
citations in, in a way that works for me. In doing so I created,
deleted, recreated, etc. quite a number of particularly 'C' ids. In
addition it is not uncommon for me to have 6 or more citations per event
for events such as births, marriages, divorces and deaths, so I expect
the number of citation ids. I need to far exceed the number of
individual and family ids. I need. Hence my question.

I had no idea what the Reorder Gramps IDs tool is for, I assumed Gramps
uses the first lowest available number for every new id that it creates
during a session, thus avoiding gaps of unused id numbers to exist after
some time of usage. But I guess that's oversimplifying the problem ; )

One final question with regards to this topic; what happens when one
hits the maximum number available numbers? Do you get some error message
or does Gramps let you known you need to increase the max. number of
digits for ids. in a less elegant way, i.e. by inhibiting the use of any
functions that require the creation of new ids. or worse locking up
entirely?

Regards, Jk.

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Re: Is there a maximum to the number of id numbers of a given kind that Gramps supports?

Dave Scheipers
Hi John

According to Ken above, the numbers will keep going past the default 4 digits.

Some things to consider about IDs.

The sort is a text sort, not numeric. This is why I like all my ids to have the same length with the leading zeros. Additionally, if the ID's are of different lengths, if you select or filter based upon a shorter ID, Gramps will also select all other longer ID that share the same starting sequence.

just because the default is a four digit number for all databases, different databases can have longer ID's. Individuals at 4, Events and Citations at 5 or 6.

You can manually alter ID's to 'fill in the gaps". Gramps only cares that ID's are unique.

So if I were you, I wouldn't worry about them too much beyond maybe making them longer and that Reorder Gramps IDs will overwrite any custom ID and bring them back to the norm set in preferences.

Dave

On Sat, Mar 25, 2017 at 6:49 AM, John W. Kitz <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dave,

On 2017-03-24 22:40, Dave Scheipers wrote:
No, ID's are not reused. At least for people, after I merge someone,
I'll manually set that ID into next person I add or assign it to the
last person in the list. When I first ran the reorder tool, I too
thought that's what it would do, re sort. I have all my ID's at 6
digits. I'm not worrying about going past 999,999 people. But events?

Dave

At this time I don't expect to gather data for more than a couple of hundred individuals, so for now I'm not too concerned to exceed the maximum id. numbers available of each type using the default value of 4 digits.

But I've been tinkering for quite some time to get the sources and citations in, in a way that works for me. In doing so I created, deleted, recreated, etc. quite a number of particularly 'C' ids. In addition it is not uncommon for me to have 6 or more citations per event for events such as births, marriages, divorces and deaths, so I expect the number of citation ids. I need to far exceed the number of individual and family ids. I need. Hence my question.

I had no idea what the Reorder Gramps IDs tool is for, I assumed Gramps uses the first lowest available number for every new id that it creates during a session, thus avoiding gaps of unused id numbers to exist after some time of usage. But I guess that's oversimplifying the problem ; )

One final question with regards to this topic; what happens when one hits the maximum number available numbers? Do you get some error message or does Gramps let you known you need to increase the max. number of digits for ids. in a less elegant way, i.e. by inhibiting the use of any functions that require the creation of new ids. or worse locking up entirely?

Regards, Jk.


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Re: Is there a maximum to the number of id numbers of a given kind that Gramps supports?

enno
Hi all,

> So if I were you, I wouldn't worry about them too much beyond maybe
> making them longer and that Reorder Gramps IDs will overwrite any
> custom ID and bring them back to the norm set in preferences.
I agree, and like to add that because of re-ordering, which will always
occur when you import something into a non-empty tree, one should never
count on any ID having a specific value forever.

If you don't import, or re-order IDs, they are likely to be stable, but
they will still be reformatted when you import into a tree for which you
haven't set the proper preferences.

I have 5 digit IDs set on my desktop, because that looks consistent, and
the alphabetical ordering works best, but when I import that tree to my
laptop, where I usually don't bother about preferences much, all numbers
below 10,000 will show up as 4 digits ones. I don't make many changes on
that laptop, but when I do, and import a backup made on that laptop back
into a new tree on my desktop, every ID will be a 5 digit one again, and
the numerical value will be stable too.

In other words, even when changing between 4 or 5, or even higher number
of digits, ID numbers will often be stable, but one should still not
count on that, and never use Gramps (GEDCOM) IDs to create stable links
between Gramps objects and objects in different programs, including
on-line trees.

regards,

Enno


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Re: Is there a maximum to the number of id numbers of a given kind that Gramps supports?

John W. Kitz-3
In reply to this post by John W. Kitz-3
All,

On 2017-03-25 11:49, John W. Kitz wrote:

> Dave,
>
> On 2017-03-24 22:40, Dave Scheipers wrote:
>> No, ID's are not reused. At least for people, after I merge someone,
>> I'll manually set that ID into next person I add or assign it to the
>> last person in the list. When I first ran the reorder tool, I too
>> thought that's what it would do, re sort. I have all my ID's at 6
>> digits. I'm not worrying about going past 999,999 people. But events?
>>
>> Dave
>
> At this time I don't expect to gather data for more than a couple of
> hundred individuals, so for now I'm not too concerned to exceed the
> maximum id. numbers available of each type using the default value of
> 4 digits.
>
> But I've been tinkering for quite some time to get the sources and
> citations in, in a way that works for me. In doing so I created,
> deleted, recreated, etc. quite a number of particularly 'C' ids. In
> addition it is not uncommon for me to have 6 or more citations per
> event for events such as births, marriages, divorces and deaths, so I
> expect the number of citation ids. I need to far exceed the number of
> individual and family ids. I need. Hence my question.
>
> I had no idea what the Reorder Gramps IDs tool is for, I assumed
> Gramps uses the first lowest available number for every new id that it
> creates during a session, thus avoiding gaps of unused id numbers to
> exist after some time of usage. But I guess that's oversimplifying the
> problem ; )
>
> One final question with regards to this topic; what happens when one
> hits the maximum number available numbers? Do you get some error
> message or does Gramps let you known you need to increase the max.
> number of digits for ids. in a less elegant way, i.e. by inhibiting
> the use of any functions that require the creation of new ids. or
> worse locking up entirely?
>
> Regards, Jk.

Thanks to the various replies to this thread.

Regards, Jk.

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