John Ralls at rootstech

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John Ralls at rootstech

enno
Found on Louis Kessler's blog: http://t.co/Lkch2G8fJI


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Re: John Ralls at rootstech

John Ralls-2

On Feb 9, 2014, at 5:16 AM, Enno Borgsteede <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Found on Louis Kessler's blog: http://t.co/Lkch2G8fJI
>

There's another one on my Google+ at http://tinyurl.com/kogotj8

Regards,
John Ralls


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Re: John Ralls at rootstech

enno
Any news or ideas you like to share?

I read a few blogs, but didn't see anything revolutionary.

regards,

Enno


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Re: John Ralls at rootstech

John Ralls-2

On Feb 10, 2014, at 3:57 AM, Enno Borgsteede <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Any news or ideas you like to share?
>
> I read a few blogs, but didn't see anything revolutionary.
>

The technical side of RootsTech is heavily oriented towards FamilySearch, which is in turn heavily invested in Web Apps. Not much there relevant to Gramps. It's also focused on the US market, so while one of the more important sessions to me was the one about PERSI's (that's the Allen County Public Library Genealogical Division's Periodical Source Index) move from HeritageQuest to FindMyPast, PERSI only indexes US and British periodicals so it's not going to be of much interest to you (though it might be to some others here). That aside, the thrust of the conference at the keynote level was rather away from formal genealogy and more about preserving "family stories", though Judy Russell (http://www.legalgenealogist.com/blog/, an excellent blog though mostly of interest to Americans) did manage to get the Genealogical Proof Standard into her keynote speech. The other big theme was collaboration, especially using web-based tools, and integration with FamilySearch's API. Ancestry.com, FindMyPast, and MyHeritage all announced that they would be making web APIs public sometime this year.

I thought it interesting that a couple of the non-tech genealogy "heavy hitters" presented, and I saw several others attending. That might be because next year's conference is being held together with one of the two major "old school" conferences and they wanted to check it out in advance.

There was a lot of interest in DNA testing, including several lectures and a panel discussion. The Family Tree DNA booth was mobbed the entire show. Considering the apparent popularity we might consider how we could integrate DNA evidence into Gramps.

There was a small session on GedcomX [1] in which Ryan said that GedcomX was the underlying interchange mechanism for all of the data sharing between FamilySearch and its partners (Ancestry, FindMyPast, and MyHeritage) as well as the basis for the desktop API (which RootsMagic and AncestralQuest have implemented). His team has been working mostly on that integration for the last 6-8 months which is half of why the GedcomX public project has been silent. The other half is that Thad's team got reassigned from GedcomX to temple ordinances, and Thad was the one driving the bibliographic standard. Ryan said that he hoped to be able to get things going again on the public side in the next couple of months, and we discussed some ways to make it more accessible to non-techs like setting up a proper forum like phpbb instead of using the github bug tracker.

Not publicly discussed, but if you've been following the FHISO (Family History International Standards Organization) saga, it has apparently blown up. Proposal arguments continue to be posted to their "call for proposals" page, but nobody is reviewing them. Officially that's because nobody has volunteered to chair the review committee, but on probing a bit it turns out that the board has become factionalized and isn't meeting regularly so even if someone came forward they might not get appointed.

Luther Tychonievich presented yet another data model, this one modeled on the research project. Intellectually interesting but I think it would be a bear to implement. Capers McDonald presented his numbering system [3], which is the subject of a Gramps enhancement proposal including a patch [4] but is unfortunately also patented [5]. I talked with McDonald at length about the patent issue and he agreed to try to find a way to officially license the patent for Free software; I pointed him at the FSF since they're the Free Software organization that actually has lawyers able to deal with IP issues.

Regards,
John Ralls

[0]
[1] https://rootstech.org/wp-content/uploads/sessionfiles/DEV1090/DEV1090_Heaton-gedcomx-syllabus.pdf
[3] https://rootstech.org/wp-content/uploads/sessionfiles/DEV1349/DEV1349_Tychonievich.pdf
[3] https://rootstech.org/wp-content/uploads/sessionfiles/DEV1330/DEV1330_McDonald_4.pdf
[4] https://gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=5468
[5] http://www.google.com/patents/US8447763


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Re: John Ralls at rootstech

jerome
John,


Thank you for the resume.

Note, it seems that some european 'online' portals[1] (gateway?) were
also at RootsTech 2014, but they made few posts or return. I suppose
they wanted to look at North American market(s)?

As said on an other thread, to keep some programs alive while there is
not yet a complete migration to a centralized model is maybe the goal,
but I rather think on consistency and practical solutions.

So, did you know what is the future of LDS stuff included into Gedcom
specification(s) since many years?

If it is like compatibility and consistency on IGI Batch Numbers, then
maybe we should hide old LDS stuff[2] from Gramps? At least on editors.


[1]
http://www.genealogyintime.com/articles/top-100-genealogy-websites-of-2014-page02.html

Note, it sounds strange to store some web sites into 'records' category!
They are rather 'online records' or 'collections' than 'records'?
I see no 'archives.gov' (~ 2.271.870/month), 'loc.gov' (~
13,515,750/month) or 'collectionscanada.gc.ca' (~ 72,687,600/month!),
but I also see sentences like "the US, which has traditionally
represented about 65% of the genealogy industry". Not related to
RootsTech, but the same common traditional genealogy industry pointed
out by the link. So, what is the industry goal about "old/deprecated"
LDS stuff set into Gedcom? And what should be done[2] for Gramps users?

[2] https://gramps-project.org/bugs/search.php?tag_string=LDS


Regards,
Jérôme R.

Le lun. 10 févr. 2014 at 17:14, John Ralls <[hidden email]> a
écrit :

>
> On Feb 10, 2014, at 3:57 AM, Enno Borgsteede <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>>  Any news or ideas you like to share?
>>  
>>  I read a few blogs, but didn't see anything revolutionary.
>>  
>>
> The technical side of RootsTech is heavily oriented towards
> FamilySearch, which is in turn heavily invested in Web Apps. Not much
> there relevant to Gramps. It's also focused on the US market, so
> while one of the more important sessions to me was the one about
> PERSI's (that's the Allen County Public Library Genealogical
> Division's Periodical Source Index) move from HeritageQuest to
> FindMyPast, PERSI only indexes US and British periodicals so it's not
> going to be of much interest to you (though it might be to some
> others here). That aside, the thrust of the conference at the keynote
> level was rather away from formal genealogy and more about preserving
> "family stories", though Judy Russell
> (http://www.legalgenealogist.com/blog/, an excellent blog though
> mostly of interest to Americans) did manage to get the Genealogical
> Proof Standard into her keynote speech. The other big theme was
> collaboration, especially using web-based tools, and integration with
> FamilySearch's API. Ancestry.com, FindMyPast, and MyHeritage all
> announced that they would be making web APIs public sometime this
> year.
>
> I thought it interesting that a couple of the non-tech genealogy
> "heavy hitters" presented, and I saw several others attending. That
> might be because next year's conference is being held together with
> one of the two major "old school" conferences and they wanted to
> check it out in advance.
>
> There was a lot of interest in DNA testing, including several
> lectures and a panel discussion. The Family Tree DNA booth was mobbed
> the entire show. Considering the apparent popularity we might
> consider how we could integrate DNA evidence into Gramps.
>
> There was a small session on GedcomX [1] in which Ryan said that
> GedcomX was the underlying interchange mechanism for all of the data
> sharing between FamilySearch and its partners (Ancestry, FindMyPast,
> and MyHeritage) as well as the basis for the desktop API (which
> RootsMagic and AncestralQuest have implemented). His team has been
> working mostly on that integration for the last 6-8 months which is
> half of why the GedcomX public project has been silent. The other
> half is that Thad's team got reassigned from GedcomX to temple
> ordinances, and Thad was the one driving the bibliographic standard.
> Ryan said that he hoped to be able to get things going again on the
> public side in the next couple of months, and we discussed some ways
> to make it more accessible to non-techs like setting up a proper
> forum like phpbb instead of using the github bug tracker.
>
> Not publicly discussed, but if you've been following the FHISO
> (Family History International Standards Organization) saga, it has
> apparently blown up. Proposal arguments continue to be posted to
> their "call for proposals" page, but nobody is reviewing them.
> Officially that's because nobody has volunteered to chair the review
> committee, but on probing a bit it turns out that the board has
> become factionalized and isn't meeting regularly so even if someone
> came forward they might not get appointed.
>
> Luther Tychonievich presented yet another data model, this one
> modeled on the research project. Intellectually interesting but I
> think it would be a bear to implement. Capers McDonald presented his
> numbering system [3], which is the subject of a Gramps enhancement
> proposal including a patch [4] but is unfortunately also patented
> [5]. I talked with McDonald at length about the patent issue and he
> agreed to try to find a way to officially license the patent for Free
> software; I pointed him at the FSF since they're the Free Software
> organization that actually has lawyers able to deal with IP issues.
>
> Regards,
> John Ralls
>
> [0]
> [1]
> https://rootstech.org/wp-content/uploads/sessionfiles/DEV1090/DEV1090_Heaton-gedcomx-syllabus.pdf
> [3]
> https://rootstech.org/wp-content/uploads/sessionfiles/DEV1349/DEV1349_Tychonievich.pdf
> [3]
> https://rootstech.org/wp-content/uploads/sessionfiles/DEV1330/DEV1330_McDonald_4.pdf
> [4] https://gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=5468
> [5] http://www.google.com/patents/US8447763
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Managing the Performance of Cloud-Based Applications
> Take advantage of what the Cloud has to offer - Avoid Common Pitfalls.
> Read the Whitepaper.
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=121051231&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
>


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Re: John Ralls at rootstech

ACProctor
John hasn't retracted his mention of FHISO but I would like to point out
that I contacted my own source (longer-standing Board member than his
source) and these rumours are unfounded. I'll leave it to John to explain
the source of the "bust-up" rumour but  I can assure you all that it has
nothing to do with the current Board.

    Tony proctor

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerome" <[hidden email]>
To: "John Ralls" <[hidden email]>
Cc: "Gramps Development List" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 2:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Gramps-devel] John Ralls at rootstech


> John,
>
>
> Thank you for the resume.
>
> Note, it seems that some european 'online' portals[1] (gateway?) were
> also at RootsTech 2014, but they made few posts or return. I suppose
> they wanted to look at North American market(s)?
>
> As said on an other thread, to keep some programs alive while there is
> not yet a complete migration to a centralized model is maybe the goal,
> but I rather think on consistency and practical solutions.
>
> So, did you know what is the future of LDS stuff included into Gedcom
> specification(s) since many years?
>
> If it is like compatibility and consistency on IGI Batch Numbers, then
> maybe we should hide old LDS stuff[2] from Gramps? At least on editors.
>
>
> [1]
> http://www.genealogyintime.com/articles/top-100-genealogy-websites-of-2014-page02.html
>
> Note, it sounds strange to store some web sites into 'records' category!
> They are rather 'online records' or 'collections' than 'records'?
> I see no 'archives.gov' (~ 2.271.870/month), 'loc.gov' (~
> 13,515,750/month) or 'collectionscanada.gc.ca' (~ 72,687,600/month!),
> but I also see sentences like "the US, which has traditionally
> represented about 65% of the genealogy industry". Not related to
> RootsTech, but the same common traditional genealogy industry pointed
> out by the link. So, what is the industry goal about "old/deprecated"
> LDS stuff set into Gedcom? And what should be done[2] for Gramps users?
>
> [2] https://gramps-project.org/bugs/search.php?tag_string=LDS
>
>
> Regards,
> Jérôme R.
>
> Le lun. 10 févr. 2014 at 17:14, John Ralls <[hidden email]> a
> écrit :
>>
>> On Feb 10, 2014, at 3:57 AM, Enno Borgsteede <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>  Any news or ideas you like to share?
>>>
>>>  I read a few blogs, but didn't see anything revolutionary.
>>>
>>>
>> The technical side of RootsTech is heavily oriented towards
>> FamilySearch, which is in turn heavily invested in Web Apps. Not much
>> there relevant to Gramps. It's also focused on the US market, so
>> while one of the more important sessions to me was the one about
>> PERSI's (that's the Allen County Public Library Genealogical
>> Division's Periodical Source Index) move from HeritageQuest to
>> FindMyPast, PERSI only indexes US and British periodicals so it's not
>> going to be of much interest to you (though it might be to some
>> others here). That aside, the thrust of the conference at the keynote
>> level was rather away from formal genealogy and more about preserving
>> "family stories", though Judy Russell
>> (http://www.legalgenealogist.com/blog/, an excellent blog though
>> mostly of interest to Americans) did manage to get the Genealogical
>> Proof Standard into her keynote speech. The other big theme was
>> collaboration, especially using web-based tools, and integration with
>> FamilySearch's API. Ancestry.com, FindMyPast, and MyHeritage all
>> announced that they would be making web APIs public sometime this
>> year.
>>
>> I thought it interesting that a couple of the non-tech genealogy
>> "heavy hitters" presented, and I saw several others attending. That
>> might be because next year's conference is being held together with
>> one of the two major "old school" conferences and they wanted to
>> check it out in advance.
>>
>> There was a lot of interest in DNA testing, including several
>> lectures and a panel discussion. The Family Tree DNA booth was mobbed
>> the entire show. Considering the apparent popularity we might
>> consider how we could integrate DNA evidence into Gramps.
>>
>> There was a small session on GedcomX [1] in which Ryan said that
>> GedcomX was the underlying interchange mechanism for all of the data
>> sharing between FamilySearch and its partners (Ancestry, FindMyPast,
>> and MyHeritage) as well as the basis for the desktop API (which
>> RootsMagic and AncestralQuest have implemented). His team has been
>> working mostly on that integration for the last 6-8 months which is
>> half of why the GedcomX public project has been silent. The other
>> half is that Thad's team got reassigned from GedcomX to temple
>> ordinances, and Thad was the one driving the bibliographic standard.
>> Ryan said that he hoped to be able to get things going again on the
>> public side in the next couple of months, and we discussed some ways
>> to make it more accessible to non-techs like setting up a proper
>> forum like phpbb instead of using the github bug tracker.
>>
>> Not publicly discussed, but if you've been following the FHISO
>> (Family History International Standards Organization) saga, it has
>> apparently blown up. Proposal arguments continue to be posted to
>> their "call for proposals" page, but nobody is reviewing them.
>> Officially that's because nobody has volunteered to chair the review
>> committee, but on probing a bit it turns out that the board has
>> become factionalized and isn't meeting regularly so even if someone
>> came forward they might not get appointed.
>>
>> Luther Tychonievich presented yet another data model, this one
>> modeled on the research project. Intellectually interesting but I
>> think it would be a bear to implement. Capers McDonald presented his
>> numbering system [3], which is the subject of a Gramps enhancement
>> proposal including a patch [4] but is unfortunately also patented
>> [5]. I talked with McDonald at length about the patent issue and he
>> agreed to try to find a way to officially license the patent for Free
>> software; I pointed him at the FSF since they're the Free Software
>> organization that actually has lawyers able to deal with IP issues.
>>
>> Regards,
>> John Ralls
>>
>> [0]
>> [1]
>> https://rootstech.org/wp-content/uploads/sessionfiles/DEV1090/DEV1090_Heaton-gedcomx-syllabus.pdf
>> [3]
>> https://rootstech.org/wp-content/uploads/sessionfiles/DEV1349/DEV1349_Tychonievich.pdf
>> [3]
>> https://rootstech.org/wp-content/uploads/sessionfiles/DEV1330/DEV1330_McDonald_4.pdf
>> [4] https://gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=5468
>> [5] http://www.google.com/patents/US8447763
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Managing the Performance of Cloud-Based Applications
>> Take advantage of what the Cloud has to offer - Avoid Common Pitfalls.
>> Read the Whitepaper.
>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=121051231&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gramps-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
>>
>
>
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Re: John Ralls at rootstech

John Ralls-2

On Feb 11, 2014, at 6:28 AM, Tony Proctor <[hidden email]> wrote:

> John hasn't retracted his mention of FHISO but I would like to point out that I contacted my own source (longer-standing Board member than his source) and these rumours are unfounded. I'll leave it to John to explain the source of the "bust-up" rumour but  I can assure you all that it has nothing to do with the current Board.
>

Since there obviously is some conflict on the board, at least between Tony's source and mine, since FHISO was *completely* invisible at RootsTech, and since there's no technical committee appointed to review the proposals, I don't see any reason to retract. If FHISO is still an active entity it's up to them to get the word out that they're not dead yet.

None of which has anything to do with Gramps, or much of anything else.

Regards,
John Ralls



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Re: John Ralls at rootstech

John Ralls-2
In reply to this post by jerome

On Feb 11, 2014, at 6:15 AM, Jerome <[hidden email]> wrote:

> John,
>
>
> Thank you for the resume.
>
> Note, it seems that some european 'online' portals[1] (gateway?) were also at RootsTech 2014, but they made few posts or return. I suppose they wanted to look at North American market(s)?

FindMyPast, which is one of the properties of D.C. Thompsen Family History, had a big booth as they have had for several years, and the new CEO of DCTFH, Annaliese van den Belt, gave one of the keynotes. They've been working on the US market for several years now. Brian Donovan from Enneclan was hanging around their booth, but from the big banner on the bottom of his webpage [1] it looks like he's done a deal with them. If there was any other european provider there they did a pretty good job of hiding.

>
> As said on an other thread, to keep some programs alive while there is not yet a complete migration to a centralized model is maybe the goal, but I rather think on consistency and practical solutions.
>
> So, did you know what is the future of LDS stuff included into Gedcom specification(s) since many years?

I mentioned the GedcomX session.
>
> If it is like compatibility and consistency on IGI Batch Numbers, then maybe we should hide old LDS stuff[2] from Gramps? At least on editors.

>
>
> [1] http://www.genealogyintime.com/articles/top-100-genealogy-websites-of-2014-page02.html
>
> Note, it sounds strange to store some web sites into 'records' category!
> They are rather 'online records' or 'collections' than 'records'?
> I see no 'archives.gov' (~ 2.271.870/month), 'loc.gov' (~ 13,515,750/month) or 'collectionscanada.gc.ca' (~ 72,687,600/month!), but I also see sentences like "the US, which has traditionally represented about 65% of the genealogy industry". Not related to RootsTech, but the same common traditional genealogy industry pointed out by the link. So, what is the industry goal about "old/deprecated" LDS stuff set into Gedcom? And what should be done[2] for Gramps users?
>
> [2] https://gramps-project.org/bugs/search.php?tag_string=LDS
>


I'm all for hiding, no *burying*, the IGI and ancestral file. It's too hard to find the occasional nugget of truth amongst the garbage. But that's Family Search's job, not mine. ISTR that the AncestryInsider [2] has reported that all of the indexing information from the IGI is now integrated into Family Search records, complete with links to the films from which the data were extracted.

I'm not in the LDS church, so I don't know what is required for creating temple ordinances beyond what Thad Thomas told me in a casual conversation: Right now it's paper-based. His team was pulled from GedcomX to work on improving that, but he didn't go into detail about what exactly he has in mind. I'd guess that it will involve using the FS API, which as I said earlier is based on GedcomX. What Gramps should do about it is ask the users. If we don't have any LDS members using Gramps, then we should probably just delete that code since it's unlikely to be maintained properly. If we do have LDS users, then we need to find out from them what they need and modify the code accordingly.

Other than that, I'm a bit ambivalent about implementing the various APIs (Family Search, Ancestry.com, FindMyPast, and MyHeritage all have or soon will have APIs for working with features of their services. I'd hope that the FindMyPast API would be consistent across all of the DCTFH properties, but one never knows until they release something) because I don't see how it would fit in with the rest of Gramps.

Regards,
John Ralls




[1] http://www.eneclann.ie
[2] http://ancestryinsider.blogspot.com/
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Re: John Ralls at rootstech

jerome
 > If there was any other european provider there they did a pretty
good job of hiding.

They cannot be visible via any talks ... related of their accents!!! :-/
Sure, no talks, sponsors or whatever major actors, only some visitors.

Note, some people said it was gigantic.
You cannot have seen all people, provider or not!

http://french-genealogy.typepad.com/genealogie/2014/02/french-opinions-of-rootstech-2014.html

http://www.geneatech.fr/

http://www.chroniquesdantan.com/category/retour-dexperience

http://www.pencalet.com/articles/technologies/rootstech-2014/231-rootstech-2014-samedi-8-fevrier.html

etc ...

 > I mentioned the GedcomX session.

Thad Thomas cannot be the only one who knows that there is no 1:1
conversion yet!
http://familysearch.github.io/gedcomx/2012/06/05/gedcom-to-gedcomx-conversion-tool.html

"The following are not currently converted on all types of records:

Notes (NOTE tag)
Multimedia (OBJE tag)
LDS Ordinances
ID's such as RIN, RFN, REFN and AFN tags
RESN tag
AGE tag is not supported on the event structures
Generic events (EVEN tag)"

https://github.com/FamilySearch/gedcom5-conversion

Some typical records bothering us since many years, something which
avoids any complete or proper Gedcom 5.5 convertor! Sorry, but to
propose a new model and to ignore the history of the gedcom is not
something very fair.

Maybe I was wondering if there was any evolution around a real exchange
file format and FamilySearch aims to generate a new attractive API and
model.
 
Anyway, the way to control the online market (brightsolid, MyHeritage,
Ancestry)
http://www.genealogyintime.com/news/ancestry-buys-find-a-grave-page2.html
is close to issues around net neutrality... OK, bandwidth/network costs
money.

On the other side, LDS is based on "family" rules (ancestors, etc ...).
They generated the gedcom file format and do not support it.
 
Well, then maybe LDS should put the specifications into the public
domain?
They give the copyrights to FHISO (or whatever) and the community
provides a proper GedcomX <=> gedcom 6.0 converter! Dreaming is still
allowed! ;)


Regards,
Jérôme


Le mar. 11 févr. 2014 at 16:32, John Ralls <[hidden email]> a
écrit :

>
> On Feb 11, 2014, at 6:15 AM, Jerome <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>  John,
>>  
>>  
>>  Thank you for the resume.
>>  
>>  Note, it seems that some european 'online' portals[1] (gateway?)
>> were also at RootsTech 2014, but they made few posts or return. I
>> suppose they wanted to look at North American market(s)?
>>
> FindMyPast, which is one of the properties of D.C. Thompsen Family
> History, had a big booth as they have had for several years, and the
> new CEO of DCTFH, Annaliese van den Belt, gave one of the keynotes.
> They've been working on the US market for several years now. Brian
> Donovan from Enneclan was hanging around their booth, but from the
> big banner on the bottom of his webpage [1] it looks like he's done a
> deal with them. If there was any other european provider there they
> did a pretty good job of hiding.
>
>>  
>>  As said on an other thread, to keep some programs alive while there
>> is not yet a complete migration to a centralized model is maybe the
>> goal, but I rather think on consistency and practical solutions.
>>  
>>  So, did you know what is the future of LDS stuff included into
>> Gedcom specification(s) since many years?
>>
> I mentioned the GedcomX session.
>
>
> I'm all for hiding, no *burying*, the IGI and ancestral file. It's
> too hard to find the occasional nugget of truth amongst the garbage.
> But that's Family Search's job, not mine. ISTR that the
> AncestryInsider [2] has reported that all of the indexing information
> from the IGI is now integrated into Family Search records, complete
> with links to the films from which the data were extracted.
>
> I'm not in the LDS church, so I don't know what is required for
> creating temple ordinances beyond what Thad Thomas told me in a
> casual conversation: Right now it's paper-based. His team was pulled
> from GedcomX to work on improving that, but he didn't go into detail
> about what exactly he has in mind. I'd guess that it will involve
> using the FS API, which as I said earlier is based on GedcomX. What
> Gramps should do about it is ask the users. If we don't have any LDS
> members using Gramps, then we should probably just delete that code
> since it's unlikely to be maintained properly. If we do have LDS
> users, then we need to find out from them what they need and modify
> the code accordingly.
>
> Other than that, I'm a bit ambivalent about implementing the various
> APIs (Family Search, Ancestry.com, FindMyPast, and MyHeritage all
> have or soon will have APIs for working with features of their
> services. I'd hope that the FindMyPast API would be consistent across
> all of the DCTFH properties, but one never knows until they release
> something) because I don't see how it would fit in with the rest of
> Gramps.
>
> Regards,
> John Ralls
>
>
>
>
> [1] http://www.eneclann.ie
> [2] http://ancestryinsider.blogspot.com/


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Re: John Ralls at rootstech

John Ralls-2

On Feb 11, 2014, at 8:52 AM, Jerome <[hidden email]> wrote:

> > If there was any other european provider there they did a pretty good job of hiding.
>
> They cannot be visible via any talks ... related of their accents!!! :-/
> Sure, no talks, sponsors or whatever major actors, only some visitors.

Ah, sorry, I thought you meant that there were European companies there promoting their services.

>
> Note, some people said it was gigantic.
> You cannot have seen all people, provider or not!
>
> http://french-genealogy.typepad.com/genealogie/2014/02/french-opinions-of-rootstech-2014.html
>
> http://www.geneatech.fr/
>
> http://www.chroniquesdantan.com/category/retour-dexperience
>
> http://www.pencalet.com/articles/technologies/rootstech-2014/231-rootstech-2014-samedi-8-fevrier.html
>
> etc ...
>
> > I mentioned the GedcomX session.
>
> Thad Thomas cannot be the only one who knows that there is no 1:1 conversion yet!
> http://familysearch.github.io/gedcomx/2012/06/05/gedcom-to-gedcomx-conversion-tool.html
>
> "The following are not currently converted on all types of records:
>
> Notes (NOTE tag)
> Multimedia (OBJE tag)
> LDS Ordinances
> ID's such as RIN, RFN, REFN and AFN tags
> RESN tag
> AGE tag is not supported on the event structures
> Generic events (EVEN tag)"
>
> https://github.com/FamilySearch/gedcom5-conversion
>
> Some typical records bothering us since many years, something which avoids any complete or proper Gedcom 5.5 convertor! Sorry, but to propose a new model and to ignore the history of the gedcom is not something very fair.
>
> Maybe I was wondering if there was any evolution around a real exchange file format and FamilySearch aims to generate a new attractive API and model.
> Anyway, the way to control the online market (brightsolid, MyHeritage, Ancestry)
> http://www.genealogyintime.com/news/ancestry-buys-find-a-grave-page2.html
> is close to issues around net neutrality... OK, bandwidth/network costs money.
>
> On the other side, LDS is based on "family" rules (ancestors, etc ...).
> They generated the gedcom file format and do not support it.
> Well, then maybe LDS should put the specifications into the public domain?
> They give the copyrights to FHISO (or whatever) and the community provides a proper GedcomX <=> gedcom 6.0 converter! Dreaming is still allowed! ;)
>

FamilySearch has never sued anyone for using GEDCOM, so if some standards body wanted to take over and release GEDCOM 6, they certainly could do so. There have been a zillion GEDCOM-replacement specs proposed since FamilySearch decided not to support it any longer. None has gained any traction.

I’ll reply to the GedcomX bit in a new thread with a more appropriate subject.

Regards,
John Ralls


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Re: John Ralls at rootstech

jerome
Oh, my bad.

Geneanet was there.

Indirect source: people speaking in french about meetings, talks and
impressions after RootTech 2014
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-Kl11PKV70

Not certain that Geneanet has tried to promote their services
everywhere.
Do not worry, they will not attack to US market yet!
I suppose they just looked at any exciting features?

I rather thought on Heredis!
They made an english version and seem (their web site) to have
partnerships with FamilySearch, Ancestry.com, MyHeritage.

It is funny to look at sponsor(s) and environment (server
configuration, model, code) around these online services and API(s)!

The only returns were by visitors, not by hidden european compagnies!


Regards,
Jérôme


Le mar. 11 févr. 2014 at 22:25, John Ralls <[hidden email]> a
écrit :

>
> On Feb 11, 2014, at 8:52 AM, Jerome <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>  > If there was any other european provider there they did a pretty
>> good job of hiding.
>>  
>>  They cannot be visible via any talks ... related of their
>> accents!!! :-/
>>  Sure, no talks, sponsors or whatever major actors, only some
>> visitors.
>>
> Ah, sorry, I thought you meant that there were European companies
> there promoting their services.
>>
>>


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Re: GedcomX and GEDCOM

John Ralls-2
In reply to this post by jerome

On Feb 11, 2014, at 8:52 AM, Jerome <[hidden email]> wrote:

> > I mentioned the GedcomX session.
>
> Thad Thomas cannot be the only one who knows that there is no 1:1 conversion yet!
> http://familysearch.github.io/gedcomx/2012/06/05/gedcom-to-gedcomx-conversion-tool.html
>
> "The following are not currently converted on all types of records:
>
> Notes (NOTE tag)
> Multimedia (OBJE tag)
> LDS Ordinances
> ID's such as RIN, RFN, REFN and AFN tags
> RESN tag
> AGE tag is not supported on the event structures
> Generic events (EVEN tag)"
>
> https://github.com/FamilySearch/gedcom5-conversion
>
> Some typical records bothering us since many years, something which avoids any complete or proper Gedcom 5.5 convertor! Sorry, but to propose a new model and to ignore the history of the gedcom is not something very fair.
>
> Maybe I was wondering if there was any evolution around a real exchange file format and FamilySearch aims to generate a new attractive API and model.
> Anyway, the way to control the online market (brightsolid, MyHeritage, Ancestry)
> http://www.genealogyintime.com/news/ancestry-buys-find-a-grave-page2.html
> is close to issues around net neutrality... OK, bandwidth/network costs money.
>
> On the other side, LDS is based on "family" rules (ancestors, etc ...).
> They generated the gedcom file format and do not support it.
> Well, then maybe LDS should put the specifications into the public domain?
> They give the copyrights to FHISO (or whatever) and the community provides a proper GedcomX <=> gedcom 6.0 converter! Dreaming is still allowed! ;)
>

That’s a bit different from what you pointed at earlier, which was Gramps support for LDS ordinances.

The gedcom5 converter was a quick-and-dirty proof of concept program that Ryan’s team put together last summer. The omissions are mostly the result of the quick-and-dirty rather than something missing from the model, but the LDS ordinances is the exception. That was deliberately left out of the model because it’s specific to the LDS church and utterly irrelevant to most users, even most users of Family Search. There may be extensions planned or already written to provide that; Ryan said at the session that they had done several extensions and like most developers are way behind on documenting their work. Similarly, RESN (restriction) flags applied only to Ancestral File, and Ancestral File is no more, so the tag is obsolete. Note that the Person class in GedcomX has a “Private” flag which serves a similar purpose.

Ryan had the converter written only as a proof of concept, to quickly give an idea of how to do it and to quickly generate some live GedcomX files for us to study as we finished up working on the file format. It’s not complete — details below — nor is it something that Family Search much cares about. AncestralQuest has probably written a more complete one: Don’t they use GEDCOM5.5 for their file format? If we ever get around to writing a GedcomX importer/exporter or implementing the FS API, we’d want to work with our database, not a GEDCOM. I don’t know, but I expect that’s what Bruce Buzbee has done with RootsMagic.

Note [1] is a top-level class and most other classes have a note link member, just like Gramps does. The only difficulty in converting GEDCOM5 NOTE tags would be figuring out what object’s note field to attach it to.

The Subject [2] class includes a SourceReference [3] field called media to use for attaching non-evidential multimedia resource descriptions; that would be where to put the contents of a MEDIA tag. Rather than serializing multimedia objects into bin64 and putting them in a XML or JSON GedcomX document, multimedia objects are simply included in the zip file with a mime-multipart header. This is described in the file format document [4].

Subject also carries an Identifier [5] field which can be used to store all of those RIN/REFN/AFN/… values.

Events [6] don’t have ages, obviously, participants in events do. But Facts [7] can include a Fact Qualifier [8], one of whose possible value is the age of the Person [9] to whom the Fact is attached. Facts and Events are distinguished only by their position in the structure: An Event is a stand-alone, top-level object while a Fact is attached to a Person. I don’t like that and argued against it [9], but Ryan insisted on keeping it for (of all things) compatibility with GEDCOM5.

The EVEN tag corresponds to the Event [6] class.

Regards,
John Ralls

[1] https://github.com/FamilySearch/gedcomx/blob/master/specifications/conceptual-model-specification.md#33-the-note-data-type
[2] https://github.com/FamilySearch/gedcomx/blob/master/specifications/conceptual-model-specification.md#311-the-subject-data-type
[3] https://github.com/FamilySearch/gedcomx/blob/master/specifications/conceptual-model-specification.md#source-reference
[4] https://github.com/FamilySearch/gedcomx/blob/master/specifications/file-format-specification.md
[5] https://github.com/FamilySearch/gedcomx/blob/master/specifications/conceptual-model-specification.md#identifier-type
[6] https://github.com/FamilySearch/gedcomx/blob/master/specifications/conceptual-model-specification.md#25-the-event-data-type
[7] https://github.com/FamilySearch/gedcomx/blob/master/specifications/conceptual-model-specification.md#314-the-fact-data-type
[8] https://github.com/FamilySearch/gedcomx/blob/master/specifications/conceptual-model-specification.md#3142-known-fact-qualifiers
[9] https://github.com/FamilySearch/gedcomx/issues/208


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Re: John Ralls at rootstech

ACProctor
In reply to this post by John Ralls-2
>> FamilySearch has never sued anyone for using GEDCOM, so if some standards
>> body wanted to take over and release GEDCOM 6, they certainly could do
>> so. There have been a zillion GEDCOM->> replacement specs proposed since
>> FamilySearch decided not to support it any longer. None has gained any
>> traction.

The specification is in the public domain but the name is owned by
FamilySearch and I was told that they would be protective of it - to the
point of not allowing external development under its name. The fact that
they've recycled it for GEDCOM-X substantiates this a little.

    Tony Proctor

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Ralls" <[hidden email]>
To: "Jerome" <[hidden email]>
Cc: "Gramps Development List" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 9:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Gramps-devel] John Ralls at rootstech


<snip>

FamilySearch has never sued anyone for using GEDCOM, so if some standards
body wanted to take over and release GEDCOM 6, they certainly could do so.
There have been a zillion GEDCOM-replacement specs proposed since
FamilySearch decided not to support it any longer. None has gained any
traction.

I’ll reply to the GedcomX bit in a new thread with a more appropriate
subject.

Regards,
John Ralls


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Re: GedcomX and GEDCOM

Benny Malengier
In reply to this post by John Ralls-2



2014-02-11 23:24 GMT+01:00 John Ralls <[hidden email]>:

On Feb 11, 2014, at 8:52 AM, Jerome <[hidden email]> wrote:

> > I mentioned the GedcomX session.
>
> Thad Thomas cannot be the only one who knows that there is no 1:1 conversion yet!
> http://familysearch.github.io/gedcomx/2012/06/05/gedcom-to-gedcomx-conversion-tool.html
>
> "The following are not currently converted on all types of records:
>
> Notes (NOTE tag)
> Multimedia (OBJE tag)
> LDS Ordinances
> ID's such as RIN, RFN, REFN and AFN tags
> RESN tag
> AGE tag is not supported on the event structures
> Generic events (EVEN tag)"
>
> https://github.com/FamilySearch/gedcom5-conversion
>
> Some typical records bothering us since many years, something which avoids any complete or proper Gedcom 5.5 convertor! Sorry, but to propose a new model and to ignore the history of the gedcom is not something very fair.
>
> Maybe I was wondering if there was any evolution around a real exchange file format and FamilySearch aims to generate a new attractive API and model.
> Anyway, the way to control the online market (brightsolid, MyHeritage, Ancestry)
> http://www.genealogyintime.com/news/ancestry-buys-find-a-grave-page2.html
> is close to issues around net neutrality... OK, bandwidth/network costs money.
>
> On the other side, LDS is based on "family" rules (ancestors, etc ...).
> They generated the gedcom file format and do not support it.
> Well, then maybe LDS should put the specifications into the public domain?
> They give the copyrights to FHISO (or whatever) and the community provides a proper GedcomX <=> gedcom 6.0 converter! Dreaming is still allowed! ;)
>

That’s a bit different from what you pointed at earlier, which was Gramps support for LDS ordinances.

The gedcom5 converter was a quick-and-dirty proof of concept program that Ryan’s team put together last summer. The omissions are mostly the result of the quick-and-dirty rather than something missing from the model, but the LDS ordinances is the exception. That was deliberately left out of the model because it’s specific to the LDS church and utterly irrelevant to most users, even most users of Family Search. There may be extensions planned or already written to provide that; Ryan said at the session that they had done several extensions and like most developers are way behind on documenting their work. Similarly, RESN (restriction) flags applied only to Ancestral File, and Ancestral File is no more, so the tag is obsolete. Note that the Person class in GedcomX has a “Private” flag which serves a similar purpose.

Ryan had the converter written only as a proof of concept, to quickly give an idea of how to do it and to quickly generate some live GedcomX files for us to study as we finished up working on the file format. It’s not complete — details below — nor is it something that Family Search much cares about. AncestralQuest has probably written a more complete one: Don’t they use GEDCOM5.5 for their file format? If we ever get around to writing a GedcomX importer/exporter or implementing the FS API, we’d want to work with our database, not a GEDCOM. I don’t know, but I expect that’s what Bruce Buzbee has done with RootsMagic.

Note [1] is a top-level class and most other classes have a note link member, just like Gramps does. The only difficulty in converting GEDCOM5 NOTE tags would be figuring out what object’s note field to attach it to.

The Subject [2] class includes a SourceReference [3] field called media to use for attaching non-evidential multimedia resource descriptions; that would be where to put the contents of a MEDIA tag. Rather than serializing multimedia objects into bin64 and putting them in a XML or JSON GedcomX document, multimedia objects are simply included in the zip file with a mime-multipart header. This is described in the file format document [4].

Subject also carries an Identifier [5] field which can be used to store all of those RIN/REFN/AFN/… values.

Events [6] don’t have ages, obviously, participants in events do. But Facts [7] can include a Fact Qualifier [8], one of whose possible value is the age of the Person [9] to whom the Fact is attached. Facts and Events are distinguished only by their position in the structure: An Event is a stand-alone, top-level object while a Fact is attached to a Person. I don’t like that and argued against it [9], but Ryan insisted on keeping it for (of all things) compatibility with GEDCOM5.

of all things indeed, http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~pmcbride/gedcom/55gcch2.htm#INDIVIDUAL_ATTRIBUTE_STRUCTURE
A structure Gramps has always had ambivalent dealings with, making in the end a much more strict division between attributes and events.

The facts as in the final commit https://github.com/FamilySearch/gedcomx/commit/ef0fe00 will lead to the same problems it seems.
It is actually one of the few parts of gedcom I actually have struggled with, so it would have been nice if it would have been nicely resolved in some manner.

Benny


The EVEN tag corresponds to the Event [6] class.

Regards,
John Ralls

[1] https://github.com/FamilySearch/gedcomx/blob/master/specifications/conceptual-model-specification.md#33-the-note-data-type
[2] https://github.com/FamilySearch/gedcomx/blob/master/specifications/conceptual-model-specification.md#311-the-subject-data-type
[3] https://github.com/FamilySearch/gedcomx/blob/master/specifications/conceptual-model-specification.md#source-reference
[4] https://github.com/FamilySearch/gedcomx/blob/master/specifications/file-format-specification.md
[5] https://github.com/FamilySearch/gedcomx/blob/master/specifications/conceptual-model-specification.md#identifier-type
[6] https://github.com/FamilySearch/gedcomx/blob/master/specifications/conceptual-model-specification.md#25-the-event-data-type
[7] https://github.com/FamilySearch/gedcomx/blob/master/specifications/conceptual-model-specification.md#314-the-fact-data-type
[8] https://github.com/FamilySearch/gedcomx/blob/master/specifications/conceptual-model-specification.md#3142-known-fact-qualifiers
[9] https://github.com/FamilySearch/gedcomx/issues/208


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