Last Will and Testament

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Re: Last Will and Testament - & issue with using note to citations

adrian.davey
Regarding a will as an event, it is the making of the will that is the
event, not the will itself. The will is evidence relating a particular
will with particular content made on a(prerably known!) date. So it is
entirely appropriate that transcripts of the will, and/or pdf or image
copies of the original pages, are attached to the event.

Some years ago I was executor for an elderly neighbour, and the first
issue that arose(quite unexpectedly for me) after she died (in her mid
90s) was a dispute about whether the will I had been given was the
legitimate (i.e. most recent) one! The challenger was the Public Trustee
of the Northern Territory (of Australia), but as soon as they were
provided with a certified copy of the version of the will that I had
been provided with, and confirmed it was dated more recently than
theirs, they accepted the later version as the most definitive evidence
of the wishes of the testator.

Regarding Brian's suggestion below, this sound promising, except that I
was about to ask the list if people knew about a possible bug with the
inclusion of notes to citations.

On my recent testing for printed (as distinct from web reports),
carefully selecting the include notes to citations option, the resultant
report does not in fact contain the text of the note (or any other
indicator of its existence).

I am on grampsAIO64-5.0.1 on w10pro, and so far I have tested both the
Complete individual report and the Detailed descendant report and have
to confirm that even with a note clearly attached to a citation, and
with inclusion of such notes selected in the report, you get nothing,
either within the text or up the back with the source (which does get
listed).

Can anyone else confirm this is a known bug? Otherwise I will file a bug
report.

Adrian Davey

On 2019-08-07 05:16, Emyoulation--- via Gramps-users wrote:

> Here's a thought...
>
> If one adds the Will as a Source rather than a Person Note, with the
> actual text as a "Transcript" Note under the Source, the Source can be
> a cited with a Citation record from many objects in the tree.
>
> In this case, does that cause a more compactannotation (Source ID,
> date, Vol/Page & any Citation unique Notes, Gallery, Attributes,
> References) for each Citation throughout the Reports?
>
> And then would the full 'Transcript' Note be printed only once in the
> Sources appendix/section of a Report?
>
> -Brian
>
> References
> https://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php/Sources
>
>
>     On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 13:38, Dave Scheipers
>     <[hidden email]> wrote:
>     I put wills in the Person's notes with appropriate dates. I also add
>     the event dates; Will for when and where written and then the Probate
>     date with relevant citations and place. I do not add the note to the
>     event but will share the not with the citation.
>
>
>     On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 9:42 AM Michael Griffiths <[hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>     >
>     > Sorry if this is a bit "newby" but my (perhaps feeble) searches
>     have not come up with anything related.
>     >
>     > Question: Where is the best place to record an individuals will?
>     Notes looks sort of obvious but there is no category for wills.
>     Can the note category list be edited?
>     >
>     > Any pointers much appreciated.
>     >
>     > Mike G
>     > --
>     > Gramps-users mailing list
>     > [hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>
>     > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
>     > https://gramps-project.org
>
>
>
>     --
>     Gramps-users mailing list
>     [hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>
>     https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
>     https://gramps-project.org
>
>
>


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Re: Last Will and Testament - & issue with using note to citations

GRAMPS - User mailing list
My view on this subject

Probate is the event even though it always occurs after death. The will
is just a source of evidence that probate has taken place, along with
any other documentation available. I put the will transcript into the
Notes section attached to the citation and a scan of the will in the
Gallery attached  similarly.

The Detailed Descendant Report does list Notes attached to Citations and
they have always appeared in the Sources Appendix at the end of the report.

George Baynes

On 07/08/2019 08:48, Adrian Davey wrote:

> Regarding a will as an event, it is the making of the will that is the
> event, not the will itself. The will is evidence relating a particular
> will with particular content made on a(prerably known!) date. So it is
> entirely appropriate that transcripts of the will, and/or pdf or image
> copies of the original pages, are attached to the event.
>
> Some years ago I was executor for an elderly neighbour, and the first
> issue that arose(quite unexpectedly for me) after she died (in her mid
> 90s) was a dispute about whether the will I had been given was the
> legitimate (i.e. most recent) one! The challenger was the Public
> Trustee of the Northern Territory (of Australia), but as soon as they
> were provided with a certified copy of the version of the will that I
> had been provided with, and confirmed it was dated more recently than
> theirs, they accepted the later version as the most definitive
> evidence of the wishes of the testator.
>
> Regarding Brian's suggestion below, this sound promising, except that
> I was about to ask the list if people knew about a possible bug with
> the inclusion of notes to citations.
>
> On my recent testing for printed (as distinct from web reports),
> carefully selecting the include notes to citations option, the
> resultant report does not in fact contain the text of the note (or any
> other indicator of its existence).
>
> I am on grampsAIO64-5.0.1 on w10pro, and so far I have tested both the
> Complete individual report and the Detailed descendant report and have
> to confirm that even with a note clearly attached to a citation, and
> with inclusion of such notes selected in the report, you get nothing,
> either within the text or up the back with the source (which does get
> listed).
>
> Can anyone else confirm this is a known bug? Otherwise I will file a
> bug report.
>
> Adrian Davey
>
> On 2019-08-07 05:16, Emyoulation--- via Gramps-users wrote:
>> Here's a thought...
>>
>> If one adds the Will as a Source rather than a Person Note, with the
>> actual text as a "Transcript" Note under the Source, the Source can
>> be a cited with a Citation record from many objects in the tree.
>>
>> In this case, does that cause a more compactannotation (Source ID,
>> date, Vol/Page & any Citation unique Notes, Gallery, Attributes,
>> References) for each Citation throughout the Reports?
>>
>> And then would the full 'Transcript' Note be printed only once in the
>> Sources appendix/section of a Report?
>>
>> -Brian
>>
>> References
>> https://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php/Sources
>>
>>
>>     On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 13:38, Dave Scheipers
>>     <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>     I put wills in the Person's notes with appropriate dates. I also add
>>     the event dates; Will for when and where written and then the
>> Probate
>>     date with relevant citations and place. I do not add the note to the
>>     event but will share the not with the citation.
>>
>>
>>     On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 9:42 AM Michael Griffiths <[hidden email]
>>     <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>     >
>>     > Sorry if this is a bit "newby" but my (perhaps feeble) searches
>>     have not come up with anything related.
>>     >
>>     > Question: Where is the best place to record an individuals will?
>>     Notes looks sort of obvious but there is no category for wills.
>>     Can the note category list be edited?
>>     >
>>     > Any pointers much appreciated.
>>     >
>>     > Mike G
>>     > --
>>     > Gramps-users mailing list
>>     > [hidden email]
>>     <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>     > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
>>     > https://gramps-project.org
>>
>>
>>
>>     --     Gramps-users mailing list
>>     [hidden email]
>>     <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>     https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
>>     https://gramps-project.org
>>
>>
>>
>
>


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Re: Last Will and Testament - & issue with using note to citations

adrian.davey
Probate is an additional event, always with a different date (and note
that gramps provides both as default event types), because among other
things it involves the legal determination of which will (if there is
dispute) takes precedence!

For the testator of my example, in the end three different wills came to
light, with dates spanning many decades. Only the last of them was of
any consequence for probate, and thus for distribution of the estate,
but the changing content over time told an extremely significant story
about the family.

Which platform are you on? The printing of notes on citations in the DDR
certainly isn't working on winAIO64 for me.

Adrian Davey

On 2019-08-07 18:12, george via Gramps-users wrote:

> My view on this subject
>
> Probate is the event even though it always occurs after death. The
> will is just a source of evidence that probate has taken place, along
> with any other documentation available. I put the will transcript into
> the Notes section attached to the citation and a scan of the will in
> the Gallery attached  similarly.
>
> The Detailed Descendant Report does list Notes attached to Citations
> and they have always appeared in the Sources Appendix at the end of
> the report.
>
> George Baynes
>
> On 07/08/2019 08:48, Adrian Davey wrote:
>> Regarding a will as an event, it is the making of the will that is
>> the event, not the will itself. The will is evidence relating a
>> particular will with particular content made on a(prerably known!)
>> date. So it is entirely appropriate that transcripts of the will,
>> and/or pdf or image copies of the original pages, are attached to the
>> event.
>>
>> Some years ago I was executor for an elderly neighbour, and the first
>> issue that arose(quite unexpectedly for me) after she died (in her
>> mid 90s) was a dispute about whether the will I had been given was
>> the legitimate (i.e. most recent) one! The challenger was the Public
>> Trustee of the Northern Territory (of Australia), but as soon as they
>> were provided with a certified copy of the version of the will that I
>> had been provided with, and confirmed it was dated more recently than
>> theirs, they accepted the later version as the most definitive
>> evidence of the wishes of the testator.
>>
>> Regarding Brian's suggestion below, this sound promising, except that
>> I was about to ask the list if people knew about a possible bug with
>> the inclusion of notes to citations.
>>
>> On my recent testing for printed (as distinct from web reports),
>> carefully selecting the include notes to citations option, the
>> resultant report does not in fact contain the text of the note (or
>> any other indicator of its existence).
>>
>> I am on grampsAIO64-5.0.1 on w10pro, and so far I have tested both
>> the Complete individual report and the Detailed descendant report and
>> have to confirm that even with a note clearly attached to a citation,
>> and with inclusion of such notes selected in the report, you get
>> nothing, either within the text or up the back with the source (which
>> does get listed).
>>
>> Can anyone else confirm this is a known bug? Otherwise I will file a
>> bug report.
>>
>> Adrian Davey
>>
>> On 2019-08-07 05:16, Emyoulation--- via Gramps-users wrote:
>>> Here's a thought...
>>>
>>> If one adds the Will as a Source rather than a Person Note, with the
>>> actual text as a "Transcript" Note under the Source, the Source can
>>> be a cited with a Citation record from many objects in the tree.
>>>
>>> In this case, does that cause a more compactannotation (Source ID,
>>> date, Vol/Page & any Citation unique Notes, Gallery, Attributes,
>>> References) for each Citation throughout the Reports?
>>>
>>> And then would the full 'Transcript' Note be printed only once in
>>> the Sources appendix/section of a Report?
>>>
>>> -Brian
>>>
>>> References
>>> https://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php/Sources
>>>
>>>
>>>     On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 13:38, Dave Scheipers
>>>     <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>     I put wills in the Person's notes with appropriate dates. I also
>>> add
>>>     the event dates; Will for when and where written and then the
>>> Probate
>>>     date with relevant citations and place. I do not add the note to
>>> the
>>>     event but will share the not with the citation.
>>>
>>>
>>>     On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 9:42 AM Michael Griffiths <[hidden email]
>>>     <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>>     >
>>>     > Sorry if this is a bit "newby" but my (perhaps feeble) searches
>>>     have not come up with anything related.
>>>     >
>>>     > Question: Where is the best place to record an individuals will?
>>>     Notes looks sort of obvious but there is no category for wills.
>>>     Can the note category list be edited?
>>>     >
>>>     > Any pointers much appreciated.
>>>     >
>>>     > Mike G
>>>     > --
>>>     > Gramps-users mailing list
>>>     > [hidden email]
>>>     <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>>     > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
>>>     > https://gramps-project.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     --     Gramps-users mailing list
>>>     [hidden email]
>>>     <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>>     https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
>>>     https://gramps-project.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>


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Re: Last Will and Testament

Dave Scheipers
In reply to this post by Ron Johnson
In early colonial New England, you will often not find a death record.
You can sometimes find the Probated (often referred to as Proved)
will. So the Will and Probate together become the proof of death.

On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 3:06 PM Ron Johnson <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> I've always been pretty puzzled as to why Wills are Events.
>
> On 8/6/19 1:56 PM, Michael Griffiths wrote:
>
>
> Thanks for pointing out that this is an "event" - not too intuitive but will allow me to add the relevant information,.
>
> Thanks also for your prompt and helpful response...
>
> On Tue, 6 Aug 2019 at 15:10, Brad Rogers <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, 6 Aug 2019 14:42:04 +0100
>> Michael Griffiths <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hello Michael,
>>
>> >looks sort of obvious but there is no category for wills. Can the note
>> >category list be edited?
>>
>> Yes, it can.  In fact, IIRC, all category lists can be edited.  However,
>> they aren't always remembered for future use.  So far, I've only noticed
>> that Attribute custom entries aren't remembered.
>>
>> There is also an Event type Will.  Same problem arises, though;  Only
>> notes to enter a transcript.
>
>
> --
> Angular momentum makes the world go 'round.
> --
> Gramps-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
> https://gramps-project.org


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Re: Last Will and Testament - & issue with using note to citations

GRAMPS - User mailing list
In reply to this post by adrian.davey

GRAMPS: 5.0.0
Python: 3.5.3 (default, Sep 27 2018, 17:25:39) [...
BSDDB: 6.1.0 (5, 3, 28)
sqlite: 3.16.2 (2.6.0)
LANG: en_GB.UTF-8
OS: Linux
Distribution: 4.9.0-9-amd64

For Detailed Descendant Report Include (2) tab

Include Notes

Include Sources

Include Source Notes

Check the formatting styles

Source Notes are covered by "Endnotes-Source-Notes"

Citation Notes are covered by "Endnotes-Ref-Notes"

PS. If anyone is interested the price of Copies of England and Wales post 1858 Wills and Admons has been reduced from £10 each to £1:50p each

On 07/08/2019 10:00, Adrian Davey wrote:
Probate is an additional event, always with a different date (and note that gramps provides both as default event types), because among other things it involves the legal determination of which will (if there is dispute) takes precedence!

For the testator of my example, in the end three different wills came to light, with dates spanning many decades. Only the last of them was of any consequence for probate, and thus for distribution of the estate, but the changing content over time told an extremely significant story about the family.

Which platform are you on? The printing of notes on citations in the DDR certainly isn't working on winAIO64 for me.

Adrian Davey

On 2019-08-07 18:12, george via Gramps-users wrote:
My view on this subject

Probate is the event even though it always occurs after death. The will is just a source of evidence that probate has taken place, along with any other documentation available. I put the will transcript into the Notes section attached to the citation and a scan of the will in the Gallery attached  similarly.

The Detailed Descendant Report does list Notes attached to Citations and they have always appeared in the Sources Appendix at the end of the report.

George Baynes

On 07/08/2019 08:48, Adrian Davey wrote:
Regarding a will as an event, it is the making of the will that is the event, not the will itself. The will is evidence relating a particular will with particular content made on a(prerably known!) date. So it is entirely appropriate that transcripts of the will, and/or pdf or image copies of the original pages, are attached to the event.

Some years ago I was executor for an elderly neighbour, and the first issue that arose(quite unexpectedly for me) after she died (in her mid 90s) was a dispute about whether the will I had been given was the legitimate (i.e. most recent) one! The challenger was the Public Trustee of the Northern Territory (of Australia), but as soon as they were provided with a certified copy of the version of the will that I had been provided with, and confirmed it was dated more recently than theirs, they accepted the later version as the most definitive evidence of the wishes of the testator.

Regarding Brian's suggestion below, this sound promising, except that I was about to ask the list if people knew about a possible bug with the inclusion of notes to citations.

On my recent testing for printed (as distinct from web reports), carefully selecting the include notes to citations option, the resultant report does not in fact contain the text of the note (or any other indicator of its existence).

I am on grampsAIO64-5.0.1 on w10pro, and so far I have tested both the Complete individual report and the Detailed descendant report and have to confirm that even with a note clearly attached to a citation, and with inclusion of such notes selected in the report, you get nothing, either within the text or up the back with the source (which does get listed).

Can anyone else confirm this is a known bug? Otherwise I will file a bug report.

Adrian Davey

On 2019-08-07 05:16, Emyoulation--- via Gramps-users wrote:
Here's a thought...

If one adds the Will as a Source rather than a Person Note, with the actual text as a "Transcript" Note under the Source, the Source can be a cited with a Citation record from many objects in the tree.

In this case, does that cause a more compactannotation (Source ID, date, Vol/Page & any Citation unique Notes, Gallery, Attributes, References) for each Citation throughout the Reports?

And then would the full 'Transcript' Note be printed only once in the Sources appendix/section of a Report?

-Brian

References
https://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php/Sources


    On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 13:38, Dave Scheipers
    [hidden email] wrote:
    I put wills in the Person's notes with appropriate dates. I also add
    the event dates; Will for when and where written and then the Probate
    date with relevant citations and place. I do not add the note to the
    event but will share the not with the citation.


    On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 9:42 AM Michael Griffiths <[hidden email]
    [hidden email]> wrote:
    >
    > Sorry if this is a bit "newby" but my (perhaps feeble) searches
    have not come up with anything related.
    >
    > Question: Where is the best place to record an individuals will?
    Notes looks sort of obvious but there is no category for wills.
    Can the note category list be edited?
    >
    > Any pointers much appreciated.
    >
    > Mike G
    > --
    > Gramps-users mailing list
    > [hidden email]
    [hidden email]
    > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
    > https://gramps-project.org



    --     Gramps-users mailing list
    [hidden email]
    [hidden email]
    https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
    https://gramps-project.org











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