Marriage Event Question

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Re: Marriage Event Question

Peter (chamdo4ever)
Hi Enno,

On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 4:02 PM, Enno Borgsteede <[hidden email]> wrote:
> In that, there is no reference to families anymore, so this is much like
> Nick suggested. And I think it is way more practical too, because in
> reality any event can have multiple persons, death too, or none at all.
> Multi-person events make it much easier to record and exchange witnesses
> and parents of spouses in a marriage, spouses and children left behind
> by a death, and so forth.

I agree -- all that makes good sense.

> I would personally go even further, and use
> event persons, so that you can record and exchange names, ages, or birth
> dates as they appear for participants in a marriage, parents of a child,
> etc. Persons in the tree would then be combinations of event persons,
> and in the research process, events could be directly derived from
> sources, without ever worrying about where a variation of a person's
> name was found.

That's a very interesting and provocative idea. Implementing it and
keeping track of these "event persons" practically, in daily use
sounds challenging to me... but it is a very interesting idea.

> Add document management, and Gramps will be perfect, better than TMG and
> Evidentia together. :-)

I can't speak to Evidentia, but as a recent TMG convert, I already
know that Gramps is better than that. ;-)

Regards,

Peter

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Events without Persons [WAS: Re: Marriage Event Question]

Douglas Bainbridge
In reply to this post by enno
On 22/06/14 21:53, Enno Borgsteede wrote:

> Ron,
>> What's the purpose of an Event without a Person?
> Anything that you like to record from history. It won't appear in any
> report right now, but it's nice if you use Gramps as a general research
> tool, just like you can store sources and citations and connect those to
> other objects later.
>
> regards,
>
> Enno
>
Examples:
Mining disasters - probably influenced the change of
occupation of one of my ancestors
Opening of mines - relevant to the migration and settlement
of earlier ancestors

Extending this topic, the handling of Notes without Persons
isn't very satisfactory either.
The only way I can get notes on the origin of my family into
a Narweb report is to create a fictitious Person called
"Surname Bainbridge"  and attach the Notes to "him"


regards,
Doug


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Re: Events without Persons [WAS: Re: Marriage Event Question]

enno
Doug,
> Extending this topic, the handling of Notes without Persons isn't very
> satisfactory either.
> The only way I can get notes on the origin of my family into a Narweb
> report is to create a fictitious Person called "Surname Bainbridge"  
> and attach the Notes to "him"
Really? What would you think of creating a source titled as above, with
yourself as the author, and the note attached, or to the citation if you
like, so that you can add a date, and citing that?

I'm working trough a load of emails that I stored as text, or pasted
into office documents, and checking which are good enough to store as
citation notes, thereby creating a source book, much like my source box
on FamilySearch.

regards,

Enno


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Re: Events without Persons [WAS: Re: Marriage Event Question]

Douglas Bainbridge
On 23/06/14 12:36, Enno Borgsteede wrote:

> Doug,
>> Extending this topic, the handling of Notes without
>> Persons isn't very satisfactory either.
>> The only way I can get notes on the origin of my family
>> into a Narweb report is to create a fictitious Person
>> called "Surname Bainbridge"  and attach the Notes to "him"
> Really? What would you think of creating a source titled
> as above, with yourself as the author, and the note
> attached, or to the citation if you like, so that you can
> add a date, and citing that?
>
> I'm working trough a load of emails that I stored as text,
> or pasted into office documents, and checking which are
> good enough to store as citation notes, thereby creating a
> source book, much like my source box on FamilySearch.
>
> regards,
>
> Enno

Thanks very much, Enno. That sounds a much more satisfactory
solution!

Regards,

Doug

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Re: Marriage Event Question

enno
In reply to this post by Peter (chamdo4ever)
Hi Peter,
> That's a very interesting and provocative idea. Implementing it and
> keeping track of these "event persons" practically, in daily use
> sounds challenging to me... but it is a very interesting idea.
The actual idea is quite old, and when you think of it, every person in
an index like FamilySearch is an event person, maybe better described as
a source or evidence person, because one might record those as separate
persons, as records are independent, but don't always reflect a single
event.

When you look at my Borgsteede grandfather on FamilySearch

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X1ZP-6QR

you will notice that his parents each have a URL of their own, with
different IDs at the end, and if you continue your search with either
parent, you will soon find out that they all show up with different IDs,
as a child, and as parents of my grandfather's siblings. You will even
find another record of my grandfather's birth, because the indexing was
done twice, and some duplicates were obviously not removed after that.

When you use Gramps as a research database, you can create an event and
three (evidence) persons for each record found. That looks like a waste
of time, because the vitals of my great grandparents are all the same in
the records I found, but it may pay off when vitals are not the same, or
you find persons with similar names, but have no real clue whether they
really are the same person. This can all be done without changing
Gramps. You might like to have a gramplet that makes data entry easier,
or even a gramplet that allows you to paste the web page contents, and
create everything for you.

With this in mind, getting from evidence to conclusion is as simple as
introducing one extra attribute that you can use to link a group of
evidence persons to a conclusion person, and the user interface to
accommodate that, like a conclusion tree view, and changes to reports,
so that you can see name variants as found, without creating extra notes
for that. It's no more complicated than this, and provisions have
already been made in GedcomX.

regards,

Enno


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Re: Marriage Event Question

Nick Hall
In reply to this post by Peter (chamdo4ever)
On 23/06/14 03:39, Peter wrote:

>> One approach would be to store all events as individual events.
>> >
>> >The Gedcom export and some reports would need to be modified.  You could
>> >start a GEPS to discuss it.
>> >
>> >https://www.gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=Category:GEPS
> That's an interesting idea and I think a good one. I'd be glad to
> start a GEPS, but need a little guidance in how to start it going.
> I've been doing my best in trying to coherently update the Wiki in
> regards to using tmg2gramps to import data to Gramps, but writing a
> GEPS seems a bit more involved. So, I'm happy to do it, but I need a
> little help and some guidance in getting it started.

I have created a GEPS for you:

https://www.gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=GEPS_035:_Attach_family_events_to_individuals

It is very short at the moment.  Please add to it.  Feel free to ask if
you need any help.


Nick.


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Re: Marriage Event Question

Peter (chamdo4ever)
On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 11:35 AM, Nick Hall <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I have created a GEPS for you:
>
> https://www.gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=GEPS_035:_Attach_family_events_to_individuals
>
> It is very short at the moment.  Please add to it.  Feel free to ask if you
> need any help.

Many thanks Nick. I have added some more information. In my attempt to
explain everything in detail, I tend to get wordy and convoluted --
hopefully everything is clear to others reading about the issues for
the first time.

Perhaps Brad and Heinz have something to contribute to this GEPS?

Thanks,

Peter

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