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Medias, sources and sourcerefs

Hubert Toullec
I am a relatively new user to genealogy and Gramps and I started to organize my source and media data upon the scheme "one source - one reference", which seemed at first the most intuitive to me. After studying several posts on the subject, I finally changed my mind and choosed the official way (as I understood it !) of doing things, ie "one source - multiple references". I also chose to attach transcription or source text notes to the media object, not to the source object.

To illustrate by an example :
Before :
Repository = none
source = birth certificate of XXX, date DDD, archive AAA of parish PPP
source notes = transcription of birth certificate
media = scan of birth certificate of XXX, date DDD, archive AAA of parish PPP
(As you see, this lead to some confusion between media and source for me !)

After :
Repository = parish PPP
source = archive AAA
sourceref = archive AAA, page scan NNN
media = birth certificate of XXX, date = YYY, page scan NNN
media notes = transcription of birth certificate

with media objects appearing in the local Tab of source.

The major drawback of this approach is that there is no direct link between the birth event and the associated media (scan of birth certificate) and I have to manage manually the reference (page or scan image number) in the media object name to find the good media object in the gallery tab. Not ideal !

Now, my questions :
Is this really the standard way of entering data, or is there a better one ?
With this approach, how can I get the list of all events or individuals linked to a given sourceref (Archive AAA, scan NNN int the example) ?

and an accessory one : what are the ~/.gramps/grampsdb/nnnnnnnn/log.00000000nn files in the .gramps directory ? They occupy a lot of space : are they all necessary ?

Thanks all for your anwsers and advices.
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Re: Medias, sources and sourcerefs

Dave Gilmore-2
Create a Source for the event. So, for the Birth event create Birth Certificate of Joe Smith source. Under the Note section, add a Note whose contents are the transcription. And then add the scanned in image to the gallery. Not sure by your example but are you putting the date and the page scan number in the title itself? There is a field for date in the object itself to handle that.

Sincerely,

Dave Gilmore
Host/Producer
Digital Media Revolution
http://www.sonicjammingsignals.com


From: Hubert Toullec <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Date: 10/14/2009 10:28 AM
Subject: [Gramps-users]  Medias, sources and sourcerefs






I am a relatively new user to genealogy and Gramps and I started to organize
my source and media data upon the scheme "one source - one reference", which
seemed at first the most intuitive to me. After studying several posts on
the subject, I finally changed my mind and choosed the official way (as I
understood it !) of doing things, ie "one source - multiple references". I
also chose to attach transcription or source text notes to the media object,
not to the source object.

To illustrate by an example :
Before :
Repository = none
source = birth certificate of XXX, date DDD, archive AAA of parish PPP
source notes = transcription of birth certificate
media = scan of birth certificate of XXX, date DDD, archive AAA of parish
PPP
(As you see, this lead to some confusion between media and source for me !)

After :
Repository = parish PPP
source = archive AAA
sourceref = archive AAA, page scan NNN
media = birth certificate of XXX, date = YYY, page scan NNN
media notes = transcription of birth certificate

with media objects appearing in the local Tab of source.

The major drawback of this approach is that there is no direct link between
the birth event and the associated media (scan of birth certificate) and I
have to manage manually the reference (page or scan image number) in the
media object name to find the good media object in the gallery tab. Not
ideal !

Now, my questions :
Is this really the standard way of entering data, or is there a better one ?
With this approach, how can I get the list of all events or individuals
linked to a given sourceref (Archive AAA, scan NNN int the example) ?

and an accessory one : what are the
~/.gramps/grampsdb/nnnnnnnn/log.00000000nn files in the .gramps directory ?
They occupy a lot of space : are they all necessary ?

Thanks all for your anwsers and advices.
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Re: Medias, sources and sourcerefs

Theo Tulley
In reply to this post by Hubert Toullec
I started my interest in genealogy using Family Tree Maker 2006 and
changed to Gramps about 18 months ago. Earlier entries still lack the
more disciplined approach I have since acquired.

I like to keep my records simple - for me, the source of all events
recorded in a particular set of documents is that set - e.g. Alfriston
Parish records, xx's transcription. It doesn't matter whether I obtained
the information from my computer screen or from a printout. The
particular record is easily identified from the event to which it refers.

Similarly entries from the Sussex FHG's Marriages Index CD are simply
sourced by reference to that. The introduction to that urges
consultation of the original records, but that is impracticable with
limited time available - I sometimes wonder whether there is more
information in those than in the CD?

Again, census information is sourced as such by the year - the details
of name and place are inherent in the data recorded from that census.
Ideally the source should record whether an image or transcription was
used, and if the latter, whose. When I started they all came from
Ancestry. Whether or not I have a printout is irrelevant.

Perhaps I'm a heretic?

Hoping that this helps -
Yours sincerely,
 
    Theo Tulley.
[hidden email]
SFHG Member No: 11619
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Re: Medias, sources and sourcerefs

Duncan Lithgow-5
Rember that when you look at a media object the tab called
'References' lists all the 'Sources', 'Events' and so on that the
media item is connected to. I think that might answer one of your
earlier questions.

regards, Duncan

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Re: Medias, sources and sourcerefs

Hubert Toullec
In reply to this post by Dave Gilmore-2
Yes, that's what I did in my first approach, except that, as you noticed it, I didn't use the Date and Page fields in sourceref. Now I have deeply changed my database to reflect what I understand is the offical way of doing things, and I am happy with it, but now the data in sourceref is important, hence my question on sourcerefs list !
Hubert

Le mercredi 14 octobre 2009 à 12:22 -0700, Dave Gilmore a écrit :
Create a Source for the event. So, for the Birth event create Birth Certificate of Joe Smith source. Under the Note section, add a Note whose contents are the transcription. And then add the scanned in image to the gallery. Not sure by your example but are you putting the date and the page scan number in the title itself? There is a field for date in the object itself to handle that.

Sincerely,

Dave Gilmore
Host/Producer
Digital Media Revolution
http://www.sonicjammingsignals.com


From: Hubert Toullec <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Date: 10/14/2009 10:28 AM
Subject: [Gramps-users]  Medias, sources and sourcerefs







I am a relatively new user to genealogy and Gramps and I started to organize
my source and media data upon the scheme "one source - one reference", which
seemed at first the most intuitive to me. After studying several posts on
the subject, I finally changed my mind and choosed the official way (as I
understood it !) of doing things, ie "one source - multiple references". I
also chose to attach transcription or source text notes to the media object,
not to the source object.

To illustrate by an example :
Before :
Repository = none
source = birth certificate of XXX, date DDD, archive AAA of parish PPP
source notes = transcription of birth certificate
media = scan of birth certificate of XXX, date DDD, archive AAA of parish
PPP
(As you see, this lead to some confusion between media and source for me !)

After :
Repository = parish PPP
source = archive AAA
sourceref = archive AAA, page scan NNN
media = birth certificate of XXX, date = YYY, page scan NNN
media notes = transcription of birth certificate

with media objects appearing in the local Tab of source.

The major drawback of this approach is that there is no direct link between
the birth event and the associated media (scan of birth certificate) and I
have to manage manually the reference (page or scan image number) in the
media object name to find the good media object in the gallery tab. Not
ideal !

Now, my questions :
Is this really the standard way of entering data, or is there a better one ?
With this approach, how can I get the list of all events or individuals
linked to a given sourceref (Archive AAA, scan NNN int the example) ?

and an accessory one : what are the
~/.gramps/grampsdb/nnnnnnnn/log.00000000nn files in the .gramps directory ?
They occupy a lot of space : are they all necessary ?

Thanks all for your anwsers and advices.
--
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Medias%2C-sources-and-sourcerefs-tp25895364p25895364.html
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Re: Medias, sources and sourcerefs

Hubert Toullec
In reply to this post by Duncan Lithgow-5
When I look in the References tab of a media object, the only reference I see is that of the source to which this media belongs. If I follow your reasoning, I ought to duplicate the media object in the individual object gallery.
My initial thought was to find some way to simply obtain a list of "filtered" sourcerefs, for example, all the individuals concerned by page P of the source "Birth register 1800-1810 of parish X". Is that possible trough the Gramps interface (I didn't find it !) ?
Hubert

Le vendredi 16 octobre 2009 à 12:26 +0200, Duncan Lithgow a écrit :
Rember that when you look at a media object the tab called
'References' lists all the 'Sources', 'Events' and so on that the
media item is connected to. I think that might answer one of your
earlier questions.

regards, Duncan


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Re: Medias, sources and sourcerefs

Nick Hall-6
In reply to this post by Hubert Toullec


Hubert Toullec wrote:
> I am a relatively new user to genealogy and Gramps and I started to organize
> my source and media data upon the scheme "one source - one reference", which
> seemed at first the most intuitive to me.
Some people use this approach but you will end up with a large number of
sources.

>  After studying several posts on
> the subject, I finally changed my mind and choosed the official way (as I
> understood it !) of doing things,
I don't think that there is an official way of doing this. Different
people use different approaches.

Unfortunately in gramps there is often more than one way to do
something. Other questions I have seen from new users (and have had to
think about myself) are:

Should occupation be recorded as an event or an attribute?
What is the correct way to use the event description?
Should I use addresses or residence events?

>  ie "one source - multiple references". I
> also chose to attach transcription or source text notes to the media object,
> not to the source object.
>
> To illustrate by an example :
> Before :
> Repository = none
> source = birth certificate of XXX, date DDD, archive AAA of parish PPP
> source notes = transcription of birth certificate
> media = scan of birth certificate of XXX, date DDD, archive AAA of parish
> PPP
> (As you see, this lead to some confusion between media and source for me !)
>
> After :
> Repository = parish PPP
> source = archive AAA
> sourceref = archive AAA, page scan NNN
> media = birth certificate of XXX, date = YYY, page scan NNN
> media notes = transcription of birth certificate
>
> with media objects appearing in the local Tab of source.
>
>  
I use a mix of both methods. For certificates, I set the source as the
certificate and the repository is the place where I obtained the
certificate (in England this is the General Register Office). For parish
register entries I use many source references for a single source - the
repository is the county record office I visit, the source will be
typically a set of fiche and I use the source reference to record the
particular fiche and entry number of the record.
> The major drawback of this approach is that there is no direct link between
> the birth event and the associated media (scan of birth certificate) and I
> have to manage manually the reference (page or scan image number) in the
> media object name to find the good media object in the gallery tab. Not
> ideal !
>
>  
True. You cannot attach media to a source reference. It may be better to
attach media to an individual or event. For example if you have a source
for a census year then you will have many census events attached to one
census source. In this case it is probably better to attach the media to
the event rather than the source.

> Now, my questions :
> Is this really the standard way of entering data, or is there a better one ?
> With this approach, how can I get the list of all events or individuals
> linked to a given sourceref (Archive AAA, scan NNN int the example) ?
>
>  
I don't think there is a report to do this. If you know how to program
you could write your own report.

> and an accessory one : what are the
> ~/.gramps/grampsdb/nnnnnnnn/log.00000000nn files in the .gramps directory ?
> They occupy a lot of space : are they all necessary ?
>  
I think these are transaction log files for the database and should not
be removed.

There are some brief details here -
http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=Database_Formats

> Thanks all for your anwsers and advices.
>  

Regards,


Nick.


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Re: Medias, sources and sourcerefs

Benny Malengier
2009/10/17 Nick Hall <[hidden email]>:

>
>> and an accessory one : what are the
>> ~/.gramps/grampsdb/nnnnnnnn/log.00000000nn files in the .gramps directory ?
>> They occupy a lot of space : are they all necessary ?
>>
> I think these are transaction log files for the database and should not
> be removed.

Yes, it is how the database works. If you are annoyed with them,
export your famtree as an xml file, import it in a new famtree, and
remove the old one. The database will then again be 'young' and the
log files small.
The database backend takes care of how large log files are, there are
some settings we could play with, but it is complicated low level
stuff.

Benny

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Re: Medias, sources and sourcerefs

Frederico Munoz
In reply to this post by Hubert Toullec
Hi,

2009/10/14 Hubert Toullec <[hidden email]>:
>
> I am a relatively new user to genealogy and Gramps and I started to organize
> my source and media data upon the scheme "one source - one reference", which
> seemed at first the most intuitive to me. After studying several posts on
> the subject, I finally changed my mind and choosed the official way (as I
> understood it !) of doing things, ie "one source - multiple references". I
> also chose to attach transcription or source text notes to the media object,
> not to the source object.

As others already said there isn't an "official way". Many experienced
people favour different methods.

I do, in general, believe that the "one source - multiple references"
is closer to the way the GEDCOM tags were envisioned, and I use that
method myself.

I also share some of your doubts (I think I asked exactly the same in
this list months ago). After a while and several different experiments
I'm quite happy with the way I do things and most of the problems I
had are no longer quite as valid.

> To illustrate by an example :
> Before :
> Repository = none
> source = birth certificate of XXX, date DDD, archive AAA of parish PPP
> source notes = transcription of birth certificate
> media = scan of birth certificate of XXX, date DDD, archive AAA of parish
> PPP
> (As you see, this lead to some confusion between media and source for me !)

The naming of the media is always a tricky decision.

> After :
> Repository = parish PPP
> source = archive AAA
> sourceref = archive AAA, page scan NNN
> media = birth certificate of XXX, date = YYY, page scan NNN
> media notes = transcription of birth certificate
>
> with media objects appearing in the local Tab of source.
>
> The major drawback of this approach is that there is no direct link between
> the birth event and the associated media (scan of birth certificate) and I
> have to manage manually the reference (page or scan image number) in the
> media object name to find the good media object in the gallery tab. Not
> ideal !

I personally name the media objects in relation to the source (e.g. I
use names like "1854 Baptism, pg 12-13" instead of "Baptism of John
Smith, 1854") just because sometimes a single image can contain
different events. More importantly I add the source text (the
transcription) to the Source *and* to the media, if applicable. The
sharing of notes makes this simple and easy.

Since media objects also point to a source I use the name just to have
enough information for quickly knowing what it is, and leave the
details for the source reference.

As for the lack of direct link, I understand your problem. Since a
source can have multiple media objects it would be non-trivial to
automatically link a specific event to a specific image. I do the same
thing as you do, and basically add the relevant image to the event
gallery by hand.

> Now, my questions :
> Is this really the standard way of entering data, or is there a better one ?

It's hard to say what is the "standard way". There are others. I
prefer this one to the rest of them. Especially since I stopped
viewing Source References as things that are always the same and that
should be "shared" and began adding specific content to each source
reference (citation, etc).

> With this approach, how can I get the list of all events or individuals
> linked to a given sourceref (Archive AAA, scan NNN int the example) ?

I think that there is a filter for that available... see
http://www.gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=2831 .

Regards,

Frederico

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Re: Medias, sources and sourcerefs

Gerald Britton-2
For those interested in a standard approach, consult "Cite Your
Sources" by  Richard S. Lackey.  Though written before the advent of
the Internet and online databases, this little book presents an
approach that is highly adaptable.

On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 11:29 PM, Frederico Muñoz <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> 2009/10/14 Hubert Toullec <[hidden email]>:
>>
>> I am a relatively new user to genealogy and Gramps and I started to organize
>> my source and media data upon the scheme "one source - one reference", which
>> seemed at first the most intuitive to me. After studying several posts on
>> the subject, I finally changed my mind and choosed the official way (as I
>> understood it !) of doing things, ie "one source - multiple references". I
>> also chose to attach transcription or source text notes to the media object,
>> not to the source object.
>
> As others already said there isn't an "official way". Many experienced
> people favour different methods.
>
> I do, in general, believe that the "one source - multiple references"
> is closer to the way the GEDCOM tags were envisioned, and I use that
> method myself.
>
> I also share some of your doubts (I think I asked exactly the same in
> this list months ago). After a while and several different experiments
> I'm quite happy with the way I do things and most of the problems I
> had are no longer quite as valid.
>
>> To illustrate by an example :
>> Before :
>> Repository = none
>> source = birth certificate of XXX, date DDD, archive AAA of parish PPP
>> source notes = transcription of birth certificate
>> media = scan of birth certificate of XXX, date DDD, archive AAA of parish
>> PPP
>> (As you see, this lead to some confusion between media and source for me !)
>
> The naming of the media is always a tricky decision.
>
>> After :
>> Repository = parish PPP
>> source = archive AAA
>> sourceref = archive AAA, page scan NNN
>> media = birth certificate of XXX, date = YYY, page scan NNN
>> media notes = transcription of birth certificate
>>
>> with media objects appearing in the local Tab of source.
>>
>> The major drawback of this approach is that there is no direct link between
>> the birth event and the associated media (scan of birth certificate) and I
>> have to manage manually the reference (page or scan image number) in the
>> media object name to find the good media object in the gallery tab. Not
>> ideal !
>
> I personally name the media objects in relation to the source (e.g. I
> use names like "1854 Baptism, pg 12-13" instead of "Baptism of John
> Smith, 1854") just because sometimes a single image can contain
> different events. More importantly I add the source text (the
> transcription) to the Source *and* to the media, if applicable. The
> sharing of notes makes this simple and easy.
>
> Since media objects also point to a source I use the name just to have
> enough information for quickly knowing what it is, and leave the
> details for the source reference.
>
> As for the lack of direct link, I understand your problem. Since a
> source can have multiple media objects it would be non-trivial to
> automatically link a specific event to a specific image. I do the same
> thing as you do, and basically add the relevant image to the event
> gallery by hand.
>
>> Now, my questions :
>> Is this really the standard way of entering data, or is there a better one ?
>
> It's hard to say what is the "standard way". There are others. I
> prefer this one to the rest of them. Especially since I stopped
> viewing Source References as things that are always the same and that
> should be "shared" and began adding specific content to each source
> reference (citation, etc).
>
>> With this approach, how can I get the list of all events or individuals
>> linked to a given sourceref (Archive AAA, scan NNN int the example) ?
>
> I think that there is a filter for that available... see
> http://www.gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=2831 .
>
> Regards,
>
> Frederico
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>



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Re: Medias, sources and sourcerefs

Brad Rogers
On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 09:11:15 -0500
Gerald Britton <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello Gerald,

> For those interested in a standard approach, consult "Cite Your
> Sources" by  Richard S. Lackey.  Though written before the advent of

Another option is to use http://www.worldcat.org/ which will generate
citations for certain media types according to various criteria.
Obviously, there will be limitations, but I find it quite handy.

The site does require that you register, but that's free.

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Beds Are Burning - Midnight Oil

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Re: Medias, sources and sourcerefs

Gerald Britton-2
Brad -- thanks for that note about Worldcat.  I never noticed the
"cite" function before.  It is indeed helpful for what Worldcat covers

On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 11:13 AM, Brad Rogers <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 09:11:15 -0500
> Gerald Britton <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hello Gerald,
>
>> For those interested in a standard approach, consult "Cite Your
>> Sources" by  Richard S. Lackey.  Though written before the advent of
>
> Another option is to use http://www.worldcat.org/ which will generate
> citations for certain media types according to various criteria.
> Obviously, there will be limitations, but I find it quite handy.
>
> The site does require that you register, but that's free.
>
> --
>  Regards  _
>         / )           "The blindingly obvious is
>        / _)rad        never immediately apparent"
>
> It belongs to them, let's give it back
> Beds Are Burning - Midnight Oil
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
> is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your
> developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay
> ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference
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>
>



--
Gerald Britton

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Re: Medias, sources and sourcerefs

Brad Rogers
On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 12:08:32 -0500
Gerald Britton <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello Gerald,

> Brad -- thanks for that note about Worldcat.  I never noticed the

You're welcome, Gerald.

> "cite" function before.  It is indeed helpful for what Worldcat covers

Well, you know what I say.....

:-)

--
 Regards  _
         / )           "The blindingly obvious is
        / _)rad        never immediately apparent"

Drums quite good, bass is too loud, and I can't hear the words
Sound Of The Suburbs - Members

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Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA
is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your
developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay
ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference
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