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Move to GitHub

Nick Hall
Devs,

The admins have agreed that Gramps should move from SourceForge to
GitHub.  GitHub will be used to host the Gramps repository and
downloads, track issues and pull requests, and for development
communications.

If anyone wants to help with the move please let us know.

Nick.


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Re: Move to GitHub

Luigi Toscano
Nick Hall ha scritto:
> Devs,
>
> The admins have agreed that Gramps should move from SourceForge to
> GitHub.  GitHub will be used to host the Gramps repository and
> downloads, track issues and pull requests, and for development
> communications.

Does it also mean that the workflow changes and no direct push is allowed anymore?

Ciao
--
Luigi

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Re: Move to GitHub

John Ralls-2
In reply to this post by Nick Hall

> On Jan 27, 2015, at 2:47 PM, Nick Hall <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Devs,
>
> The admins have agreed that Gramps should move from SourceForge to
> GitHub.  GitHub will be used to host the Gramps repository and
> downloads, track issues and pull requests, and for development
> communications.
>
> If anyone wants to help with the move please let us know.

OK for sources and pulls, but the GitHub issue tracker isn't capable of handling the volume of bugs we have. I strongly recommend that we stick with Mantis; if others are concerned that it's not up to the job the only other tracker I know of which scales better is Bugzilla*. Github offers no "development communication" facility other than the issue tracker. GedcomX went down that road: It was a PITA.

Regards,
John Ralls


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Re: Move to GitHub

Benny Malengier
In reply to this post by Luigi Toscano

2015-01-27 23:56 GMT+01:00 Luigi Toscano <[hidden email]>:
Nick Hall ha scritto:
> Devs,
>
> The admins have agreed that Gramps should move from SourceForge to
> GitHub.  GitHub will be used to host the Gramps repository and
> downloads, track issues and pull requests, and for development
> communications.

Does it also mean that the workflow changes and no direct push is allowed anymore?


Workflow changes. How is to be worked out. Everybody seems to be contributing to some github projects, so there is experience, and it should be possible to find a workflow that best fits Gramps.

Benny


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Re: Move to GitHub

Benny Malengier
In reply to this post by John Ralls-2


2015-01-28 5:43 GMT+01:00 John Ralls <[hidden email]>:

> On Jan 27, 2015, at 2:47 PM, Nick Hall <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Devs,
>
> The admins have agreed that Gramps should move from SourceForge to
> GitHub.  GitHub will be used to host the Gramps repository and
> downloads, track issues and pull requests, and for development
> communications.
>
> If anyone wants to help with the move please let us know.

OK for sources and pulls, but the GitHub issue tracker isn't capable of handling the volume of bugs we have. I strongly recommend that we stick with Mantis; if others are concerned that it's not up to the job the only other tracker I know of which scales better is Bugzilla*. Github offers no "development communication" facility other than the issue tracker. GedcomX went down that road: It was a PITA.

If mantis cannot integrate with pull requests, then that is a problem. I don't know.

GedcomX seems a project that needs communication. It should work like a standards committee.
For gramps, mantis bugs are bugs, and those should integrate in the github issue tracker just fine.  Are you afraid the noise would be too great if you subscribe to watch the issue tracker?
If I look at eg https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=672889 I have no idea of commit, where it is, the actual push. Just that somebody pushed and it should be ok. I find that a bad system compared to github issue tracker.

For general discussion, some venue outside the tracker might be needed.

Benny

Regards,
John Ralls


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Re: Move to GitHub

John Ralls-2

On Jan 28, 2015, at 1:56 AM, Benny Malengier <[hidden email]> wrote:



2015-01-28 5:43 GMT+01:00 John Ralls <[hidden email]>:

> On Jan 27, 2015, at 2:47 PM, Nick Hall <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Devs,
>
> The admins have agreed that Gramps should move from SourceForge to
> GitHub.  GitHub will be used to host the Gramps repository and
> downloads, track issues and pull requests, and for development
> communications.
>
> If anyone wants to help with the move please let us know.

OK for sources and pulls, but the GitHub issue tracker isn't capable of handling the volume of bugs we have. I strongly recommend that we stick with Mantis; if others are concerned that it's not up to the job the only other tracker I know of which scales better is Bugzilla*. Github offers no "development communication" facility other than the issue tracker. GedcomX went down that road: It was a PITA.

If mantis cannot integrate with pull requests, then that is a problem. I don't know.

GedcomX seems a project that needs communication. It should work like a standards committee. 
For gramps, mantis bugs are bugs, and those should integrate in the github issue tracker just fine.  Are you afraid the noise would be too great if you subscribe to watch the issue tracker? 
If I look at eg https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=672889 I have no idea of commit, where it is, the actual push. Just that somebody pushed and it should be ok. I find that a bad system compared to github issue tracker.

For general discussion, some venue outside the tracker might be needed. 

I’m one of the people with *extensive* experience with GitHub. I’ve been using it for 6 years.

The tracker has only the most rudimentary search facility, no fixed categories, and limited filters. It’s completely incapable of managing more than a few dozen open bugs, and we have over 3000.  It’s an absolute non-starter.

It does integrate with pull requests in that pull requests are a flavor of issue and it’s possible to convert a bug to a pull request. That’s of rather limited utility, as it’s pretty easy to paste the URL of a pull request into a Mantis bug report. That’s actually an improvement because Github pull requests have facilities for code review while Mantis patches don’t.

The comment about GedcomX’s use of the issue tracker as a forum was separate from the weaknesses of the issue tracker as an issue tracker. It did not work well as a forum, but Github provides no other facility for that so under your plan to move everything to Github that’s all we’d have. This list, gramps-users, and gramps-bugs all mixed together in a single forum with no good way to tell one from another.

No, I’m not concerned about the volume of traffic from being subscribed to a Github issue tracker. I’m subscribed to several with much more volume than Gramps has. I’m concerned that the “admins” have decided without getting input from the rest of the team to move bug tracking and mailing lists to an inadequate platform.

Regards,
John Ralls


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Re: Move to GitHub

DS Blank
On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 10:45 AM, John Ralls <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Jan 28, 2015, at 1:56 AM, Benny Malengier <[hidden email]> wrote:



2015-01-28 5:43 GMT+01:00 John Ralls <[hidden email]>:

> On Jan 27, 2015, at 2:47 PM, Nick Hall <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Devs,
>
> The admins have agreed that Gramps should move from SourceForge to
> GitHub.  GitHub will be used to host the Gramps repository and
> downloads, track issues and pull requests, and for development
> communications.
>
> If anyone wants to help with the move please let us know.

OK for sources and pulls, but the GitHub issue tracker isn't capable of handling the volume of bugs we have. I strongly recommend that we stick with Mantis; if others are concerned that it's not up to the job the only other tracker I know of which scales better is Bugzilla*. Github offers no "development communication" facility other than the issue tracker. GedcomX went down that road: It was a PITA.

If mantis cannot integrate with pull requests, then that is a problem. I don't know.

GedcomX seems a project that needs communication. It should work like a standards committee. 
For gramps, mantis bugs are bugs, and those should integrate in the github issue tracker just fine.  Are you afraid the noise would be too great if you subscribe to watch the issue tracker? 
If I look at eg https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=672889 I have no idea of commit, where it is, the actual push. Just that somebody pushed and it should be ok. I find that a bad system compared to github issue tracker.

For general discussion, some venue outside the tracker might be needed. 

I’m one of the people with *extensive* experience with GitHub. I’ve been using it for 6 years.

The tracker has only the most rudimentary search facility, no fixed categories, and limited filters. It’s completely incapable of managing more than a few dozen open bugs, and we have over 3000.  It’s an absolute non-starter.

Begging to differ :) I have found the search quite useful, and of course a group can agree what tags you want to create "fixed" categories to our liking. As to your comment about being "incapable of managing more than n bugs" where n is about 36 is ... way off in my experience. For example, here is a view with 4k issues:

https://github.com/ipython/ipython/issues?q=is%3Aissue

But we probably don't need to have 3k open issues, so perhaps github will allow us to manage them better.
 

It does integrate with pull requests in that pull requests are a flavor of issue and it’s possible to convert a bug to a pull request. That’s of rather limited utility, as it’s pretty easy to paste the URL of a pull request into a Mantis bug report. That’s actually an improvement because Github pull requests have facilities for code review while Mantis patches don’t.

Rather limited enhancement is still an enhancement. But there are many more benefits.
 

The comment about GedcomX’s use of the issue tracker as a forum was separate from the weaknesses of the issue tracker as an issue tracker. It did not work well as a forum, but Github provides no other facility for that so under your plan to move everything to Github that’s all we’d have. This list, gramps-users, and gramps-bugs all mixed together in a single forum with no good way to tell one from another.

I've been involved with groups that benefit from having a single place of conversation.
 

No, I’m not concerned about the volume of traffic from being subscribed to a Github issue tracker. I’m subscribed to several with much more volume than Gramps has. I’m concerned that the “admins” have decided without getting input from the rest of the team to move bug tracking and mailing lists to an inadequate platform.


I think the admins have a pretty good feel for both the limits of github, and for the feelings of many of the gramps contributors. I do believe that this move will have a number of great benefits for the community.

-Doug
 

Regards,
John Ralls


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Re: Move to GitHub

Benny Malengier
In reply to this post by John Ralls-2


2015-01-28 16:45 GMT+01:00 John Ralls <[hidden email]>:

On Jan 28, 2015, at 1:56 AM, Benny Malengier <[hidden email]> wrote:



2015-01-28 5:43 GMT+01:00 John Ralls <[hidden email]>:

> On Jan 27, 2015, at 2:47 PM, Nick Hall <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Devs,
>
> The admins have agreed that Gramps should move from SourceForge to
> GitHub.  GitHub will be used to host the Gramps repository and
> downloads, track issues and pull requests, and for development
> communications.
>
> If anyone wants to help with the move please let us know.

OK for sources and pulls, but the GitHub issue tracker isn't capable of handling the volume of bugs we have. I strongly recommend that we stick with Mantis; if others are concerned that it's not up to the job the only other tracker I know of which scales better is Bugzilla*. Github offers no "development communication" facility other than the issue tracker. GedcomX went down that road: It was a PITA.

If mantis cannot integrate with pull requests, then that is a problem. I don't know.

GedcomX seems a project that needs communication. It should work like a standards committee. 
For gramps, mantis bugs are bugs, and those should integrate in the github issue tracker just fine.  Are you afraid the noise would be too great if you subscribe to watch the issue tracker? 
If I look at eg https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=672889 I have no idea of commit, where it is, the actual push. Just that somebody pushed and it should be ok. I find that a bad system compared to github issue tracker.

For general discussion, some venue outside the tracker might be needed. 

I’m one of the people with *extensive* experience with GitHub. I’ve been using it for 6 years.

The tracker has only the most rudimentary search facility, no fixed categories, and limited filters. It’s completely incapable of managing more than a few dozen open bugs, and we have over 3000.  It’s an absolute non-starter.

It does integrate with pull requests in that pull requests are a flavor of issue and it’s possible to convert a bug to a pull request. That’s of rather limited utility, as it’s pretty easy to paste the URL of a pull request into a Mantis bug report. That’s actually an improvement because Github pull requests have facilities for code review while Mantis patches don’t.

The comment about GedcomX’s use of the issue tracker as a forum was separate from the weaknesses of the issue tracker as an issue tracker. It did not work well as a forum, but Github provides no other facility for that so under your plan to move everything to Github that’s all we’d have. This list, gramps-users, and gramps-bugs all mixed together in a single forum with no good way to tell one from another.

No, I’m not concerned about the volume of traffic from being subscribed to a Github issue tracker. I’m subscribed to several with much more volume than Gramps has. I’m concerned that the “admins” have decided without getting input from the rest of the team to move bug tracking and mailing lists to an inadequate platform.

Nothing has changed yet. We want to move development to github however, for several reasons which have been mentioned before.

Let's keep the different things separate. For source and pull requests, github will be better, as you indicate also. Moving to github means we stop using the last parts on SF.

What remains is mailing lists and bug tracker, which we self host already outside of SF.
It would simplify things if we can further simplify things, but we don't need change for the sake of change as far as I'm concerned.  I would like to use the github issue tracker though, but having two ways is a no-no, so it should be one or the other.

I'd like some more info on what is bad with github issue tracker.
Taking an example I know, openscad, yes the tracker has far less bugs, but I don't see what is so different:
https://github.com/openscad/openscad/issues
You have labels, you can see what is assigned to you, follow comments, ...

About mailing list <--> fora, the fact we are discussing things here is because we are mailing list people :-) We believe we miss a lot of possible user interaction though by not having a forum. Having mailing list and forum is not a good idea though, you must choose. For user interaction, if there are people willing to manage it, I would agree to stopping user mailing list and doing it as a forum.

For developers interaction, as most projects have a developer mailing list, I would also keep it if not a better venue is possible. Is the github issue tracker a better venue? I don't know. It's dangerous to change communication forms, as it can destroy a community, but not changing might also mean loosing new blood...

So:

* source, pull requests --> github. Somebody not in favour?

* issues                      --> github issues or mantis or ??. 
  We should decide . Somebody wants to test mantis->github conversion on a project to see how it would look like?

* user interaction         --> mailing list or forum.              
  No need to decide yet, let your preference be known

* develop interaction    --> mailing list and issue tracker as now, or ask to focus on issue tracker ?
  No need to decide yet, but let your preference be known.

Benny

 

Regards,
John Ralls



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Re: Move to GitHub

Tom Hughes
In reply to this post by DS Blank
On 28/01/15 16:01, Doug Blank wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 10:45 AM, John Ralls <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>     I’m one of the people with *extensive* experience with GitHub. I’ve
>     been using it for 6 years.
>
>     The tracker has only the most rudimentary search facility, no fixed
>     categories, and limited filters. It’s completely incapable of
>     managing more than a few dozen open bugs, and we have over 3000.
>     It’s an absolute non-starter.
>
>
> Begging to differ :) I have found the search quite useful, and of course
> a group can agree what tags you want to create "fixed" categories to our
> liking. As to your comment about being "incapable of managing more than
> n bugs" where n is about 36 is ... way off in my experience. For
> example, here is a view with 4k issues:
>
> https://github.com/ipython/ipython/issues?q=is%3Aissue
>
> But we probably don't need to have 3k open issues, so perhaps github
> will allow us to manage them better.

I agree that GitHub is certainly good enough, and probably far better in
fact, than most other issue trackers.

Most issue trackers are massively overengineered as they add more and
more fields to try and answer every request somebody makes for different
ways of slicing and dicing the bugs but other than a tiny number of
power users nobody ever uses those features and it leads to a user
interface so complex that the bug reporters have no idea what to do with
all the fields.

Certainly the current system is pretty horrible - when filing a bug I
have no idea what to put in half the fields and as for the emails it
sends out well I don't really know where to start in describing my
hatred of them. It always takes me about three minutes of staring at
them to try and find out what the change is that it's actually trying to
tell me about. Even bugzilla does that better, and that's saying something.

My favourite two bug trackers, both as a reporter and as a developer on
the receiving end, are FogBugz and GitHub, both are which are
deliberately designed to be simple with the minimum set of features
needed to actually work.

Tom

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Re: Move to GitHub

Tim Lyons
Administrator
In reply to this post by Nick Hall
Nick Hall wrote
Devs,

The admins have agreed that Gramps should move from SourceForge to
GitHub.  GitHub will be used to host the Gramps repository and
downloads, track issues and pull requests, and for development
communications.

If anyone wants to help with the move please let us know.

Nick.
The last time this was discussed, there was a long an cogent argument against such a change [1].

What has changed since then?

Regards,
Tim.


[1] http://gramps.1791082.n4.nabble.com/When-is-Gramps-moving-to-git-and-GitHub-td4658900.html
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Re: Move to GitHub

Tim Lyons
Administrator
In reply to this post by John Ralls-2
Re Issue tracker and development communications.

John Ralls-2 wrote
> the GitHub issue tracker isn't capable of handling the volume of bugs we have. I strongly recommend that we stick with Mantis; if others are concerned that it's not up to the job the only other tracker I know of which scales better is Bugzilla*. Github offers no "development communication" facility other than the issue tracker. GedcomX went down that road: It was a PITA.
>
> If mantis cannot integrate with pull requests, then that is a problem. I don't know.
>
> GedcomX seems a project that needs communication. It should work like a standards committee.
> For gramps, mantis bugs are bugs, and those should integrate in the github issue tracker just fine.  Are you afraid the noise would be too great if you subscribe to watch the issue tracker?
> If I look at eg https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=672889 <https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=672889> I have no idea of commit, where it is, the actual push. Just that somebody pushed and it should be ok. I find that a bad system compared to github issue tracker.
>
> For general discussion, some venue outside the tracker might be needed.


I’m one of the people with *extensive* experience with GitHub. I’ve been using it for 6 years.

The tracker has only the most rudimentary search facility, no fixed categories, and limited filters. It’s completely incapable of managing more than a few dozen open bugs, and we have over 3000.  It’s an absolute non-starter.

It does integrate with pull requests in that pull requests are a flavor of issue and it’s possible to convert a bug to a pull request. That’s of rather limited utility, as it’s pretty easy to paste the URL of a pull request into a Mantis bug report. That’s actually an improvement because Github pull requests have facilities for code review while Mantis patches don’t.

The comment about GedcomX’s use of the issue tracker as a forum was separate from the weaknesses of the issue tracker as an issue tracker. It did not work well as a forum, but Github provides no other facility for that so under your plan to move everything to Github that’s all we’d have. This list, gramps-users, and gramps-bugs all mixed together in a single forum with no good way to tell one from another.

<snip> I’m concerned that the “admins” have decided without getting input from the rest of the team to move bug tracking and mailing lists to an inadequate platform.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

As well as the fact that someone who has extensive experience of the products recommends that we should not use it, I am also very concerned about the huge amount of information in teh Mantis database that we would lose by transferring to the Github issue tracker.

I know that there are many fields in the Mantis database, but that is a huge help, because it encourages users to give us a clue about what their bug relates to. We support many different versions (3.4, 4.0, 4.1 in one dimension, Linux, Mac, Windows in another dimension, version of OS in another dimension, core or addon in another dimension) and we really need to give users hints as to what the need to fill in.

What is meant by "development communications"? Does his mean replacing this mailing list - this mailing list seems to work well enough already, why change?

Tim.
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Re: Move to GitHub

Tim Lyons
Administrator
In reply to this post by Benny Malengier
Benny Malengier wrote
So:

* source, pull requests --> github. Somebody not in favour?

* issues                      --> github issues or mantis or ??.
  We should decide . Somebody wants to test mantis->github conversion on a
project to see how it would look like?

* user interaction         --> mailing list or forum.
  No need to decide yet, let your preference be known

* develop interaction    --> mailing list and issue tracker as now, or ask
to focus on issue tracker ?
  No need to decide yet, but let your preference be known.

(1) does this mean that the workflow would be changed so that all updates would be through pull requests? This has already been discussed [1], and the objections outlined especially here [2]

Among other things it seems to me to be assuming a
massive amount of available time on the part of some
senior developer.  Not only don't I see any such developer
at the moment but this strikes me as a sure-fire way
to burn out anybody who volunteered.  We have had senior
developers burn out in the past and I see no reason to
increase the chances that it will happen again.

(2) Bug tracker. I have addressed this in another mailing list message, and people who have actually used it seem to recommend against moving from Mantis to Github bug tracker.

(3) User interaction. I agree that the main mailing list archive has a pretty poor interface, but I use Nabble, and that works very well. I don't think that this is a good enough reason to change, especially because we would loose all the back information, which I use all the time.

(4) Developer interaction. I am not sure what the proposal or reasoning is here. There is already a mixture of adding notes to the issue tracker, and putting trace information and issue speculation in the mailing list. I don't understand how moving to only a single place would work. For general discussions or if someone needs to ask for help about some general problem, then this really shouldn't go into an issue tracker.

Tim.

[1] http://gramps.1791082.n4.nabble.com/Status-update-goals-and-ideas-td4668162.html

[2] http://gramps.1791082.n4.nabble.com/Status-update-goals-and-ideas-td4668162.html#a4668187
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Re: Move to GitHub

Nick Hall
In reply to this post by Luigi Toscano
On 27/01/15 22:56, Luigi Toscano wrote:
>> >The admins have agreed that Gramps should move from SourceForge to
>> >GitHub.  GitHub will be used to host the Gramps repository and
>> >downloads, track issues and pull requests, and for development
>> >communications.
> Does it also mean that the workflow changes and no direct push is allowed anymore?

We can move to GitHub without any workflow changes.

GitHub has a better web interface than SF, which should make pull
requests easier.  However, I see no advantage in translators submitting
pull requests.

Nick.


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Re: Move to GitHub

Paul Franklin-5
In reply to this post by Tim Lyons
I have no doubts at all as to whether my opinions about
such things matter to the "admins" -- and the fact that
their discussion was carried out privately without being
discussed by the wider community certainly says how
they feel about such things, and people like me.

So I will just state for the record that I am totally against
a move to Github for our source repository.

I am even more against any change in our workflow, to
one which requires a "god" to bless everything I do.

I am also against a move of our bugs from the Mantis
system, since as was said there is an immense amount
of information already there.  Of course as I have stated
many times in the past we have very few developers who
ever look at the bug tracker and fix any bugs there, and
nothing will solve that problem, including any move.

I am also against changing from a mailing list to a forum
format.  If we were a larger group (at least a hundred of us)
I could imagine it, but not for gramps.

This whole thing seems to me to be yet another nail in
the coffin, another way to turn off the developers we have,
an almost guaranteed way to burn out the "god" who has
to review and decide and moderate everything, etc.

But as I said, I have no illusions as to whether anybody
cares what I think or not.

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Re: Move to GitHub

Nick Hall
In reply to this post by John Ralls-2
On 28/01/15 04:43, John Ralls wrote:
>> The admins have agreed that Gramps should move from SourceForge to
>> >GitHub.  GitHub will be used to host the Gramps repository and
>> >downloads, track issues and pull requests, and for development
>> >communications.
>> >
>> >If anyone wants to help with the move please let us know.
> OK for sources and pulls, but the GitHub issue tracker isn't capable of handling the volume of bugs we have. I strongly recommend that we stick with Mantis; if others are concerned that it's not up to the job the only other tracker I know of which scales better is Bugzilla*. Github offers no "development communication" facility other than the issue tracker. GedcomX went down that road: It was a PITA.

Mantis isn't hosted on SF, so that doesn't actually affect the move from
SF to GitHub.

I can see the benefits of using an integrated issue tracker, but haven't
actually used the GitHub issue tracker.  I am relying on the experiences
of others here.

When we were doing the svn->git migration, I noticed that Mantis has a
git plugin that provides an auto-close feature.  Perhaps we could
investigate this further.

Nick.


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Re: Move to GitHub

Nick Hall
In reply to this post by Tim Lyons
On 28/01/15 17:45, Tim Lyons wrote:

>> >The admins have agreed that Gramps should move from SourceForge to
>> >GitHub.  GitHub will be used to host the Gramps repository and
>> >downloads, track issues and pull requests, and for development
>> >communications.
>> >
>> >If anyone wants to help with the move please let us know.
>> >
>> >Nick.
> The last time this was discussed, there was a long an cogent argument
> against such a change [1].
>
> What has changed since then?

The big change is that we now use git rather than subversion.

We are now saying that we think that GitHub would be a better hosting
site for Gramps.

Why do you prefer SF to GitHub?


Nick.


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Re: Move to GitHub

Tom Hughes
In reply to this post by Paul Franklin-5
On 28/01/15 19:24, Paul Franklin wrote:

> I am even more against any change in our workflow, to
> one which requires a "god" to bless everything I do.

There's no reason why moving to github should require that - it is
perfectly possible to give multiple people push access to a given
repository.

Tom

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http://compton.nu/

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Re: Move to GitHub

Nick Hall
In reply to this post by Tim Lyons
On 28/01/15 18:25, Tim Lyons wrote:
> (1) does this mean that the workflow would be changed so that all updates
> would be through pull requests?

No.  Both GitHub and SF allow us to choose the workflow that suits us
best.  GitHub may encourage more new developers to submit pull requests
though.

>   This has already been discussed [1], and the
> objections outlined especially here [2]
>
> Among other things it seems to me to be assuming a
> massive amount of available time on the part of some
> senior developer.  Not only don't I see any such developer
> at the moment but this strikes me as a sure-fire way
> to burn out anybody who volunteered.  We have had senior
> developers burn out in the past and I see no reason to
> increase the chances that it will happen again.
>
> (2) Bug tracker. I have addressed this in another mailing list message, and
> people who have actually used it seem to recommend against moving from
> Mantis to Github bug tracker.

This seems to be the main point of disagreement.  Some people seem to
like the GitHub issue tracker, others don't.  This probably needs more
thought, but it doesn't prevent a move to GitHub.

>
> (3) User interaction. I agree that the main mailing list archive has a
> pretty poor interface, but I use Nabble, and that works very well. I don't
> think that this is a good enough reason to change, especially because we
> would loose all the back information, which I use all the time.

I am planning to post to the gramps-users list to ask for opinions. If
our users prefer a mailing list we will keep a mailing list for them.

>
> (4) Developer interaction. I am not sure what the proposal or reasoning is
> here. There is already a mixture of adding notes to the issue tracker, and
> putting trace information and issue speculation in the mailing list. I don't
> understand how moving to only a single place would work. For general
> discussions or if someone needs to ask for help about some general problem,
> then this really shouldn't go into an issue tracker.

The idea was that if we used the integrated issue tracker, most
developer communications could be done via the collaborative features of
GitHub.


Nick.


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Re: Move to GitHub

Serge Noiraud-2
In reply to this post by Paul Franklin-5
Hi,

Le 28/01/2015 20:24, Paul Franklin a écrit :
> I have no doubts at all as to whether my opinions about
> such things matter to the "admins" -- and the fact that
> their discussion was carried out privately without being
> discussed by the wider community certainly says how
> they feel about such things, and people like me.
>
> So I will just state for the record that I am totally against
> a move to Github for our source repository.
+1

>
> I am even more against any change in our workflow, to
> one which requires a "god" to bless everything I do.
+1

>
> I am also against a move of our bugs from the Mantis
> system, since as was said there is an immense amount
> of information already there.  Of course as I have stated
> many times in the past we have very few developers who
> ever look at the bug tracker and fix any bugs there, and
> nothing will solve that problem, including any move.
>
> I am also against changing from a mailing list to a forum
> format.  If we were a larger group (at least a hundred of us)
> I could imagine it, but not for gramps.
+1

>
> This whole thing seems to me to be yet another nail in
> the coffin, another way to turn off the developers we have,
> an almost guaranteed way to burn out the "god" who has
> to review and decide and moderate everything, etc.
+1

>
> But as I said, I have no illusions as to whether anybody
> cares what I think or not.
>
Serge

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Re: Move to GitHub

Nick Hall
On 28/01/15 22:23, Serge Noiraud wrote:
>> So I will just state for the record that I am totally against
>> >a move to Github for our source repository.
> +1
>

Why are you both totally against GitHub?

I haven't used it much, but my first impressions are good.  The web
interface looks better than SF.

There are also no adverts on GitHub which has been a concern for some
people.

Nick.


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