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My thoughts

Billie Walsh
Normally I don't say much when I decide to leave a list. In this
instance I wanted to tell why I'm leaving. It speak to one of the main
issues that come up on the list.

I tried Gramps for a long time. It just doesn't work as I need my
genealogy database program to work. I'm not saying that Gramps is a bad
program. Point of fact, it is probably way more program that I actually
need. The issue is that it just doesn't work "for" me. I "need/want" to
have one database that is shared over several machines [ Desktop,
laptop, netbooks, etc. ] I have my database in Dropbox and can make
changes on any machine and they are immediately on my other machines.
This is very problematical to do with Gramps. To my thinking this is the
biggest downfall of Gramps.

If users had one computer and did their research at the library on
pencil and paper, came home and entered everything into their database,
Gramps is terrific. The thing is, todays world is increasingly a mobil
world. We have smart phones, tablets, netbooks, laptops, all sorts of
stuff. We go to the library with our laptop/tablet/netbook [ pick your
poison ]. Why come home and have to re-enter everything. Enter it on
your portable device and it is updated on all your machines.

As just a matter of information, I've gone back to my old Windows
genealogy program running under Wine, PAF 5.0.

Thank you to the developers for a great program [ Gramps ]. If they can
make the database portable it would be perfect.

I will be unsubscribing from the list very shortly. Thank you all for a
great experience.

--
A veteran is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a blank check made payable to ‘The United States of America’ for any amount, up to  and including their life.


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Re: My thoughts

Martin Steer-2
On Sun, Sep 09, 2012 at 06:44:12PM -0500, Billie Walsh wrote:

>need. The issue is that it just doesn't work "for" me. I "need/want" to
>have one database that is shared over several machines [ Desktop,
>laptop, netbooks, etc. ] I have my database in Dropbox and can make
>changes on any machine and they are immediately on my other machines.
>This is very problematical to do with Gramps. To my thinking this is the
>biggest downfall of Gramps.

Hi Billie,

Just curious. If you're working this way with PAF, does that mean that
the database in Dropbox is a gedcom file? If it is, why is PAF + gedcom
file in Dropbox better than Gramps + xml (or gedcom) file in Dropbox?

M.

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Re: My thoughts

Ron Johnson
On 09/09/2012 09:30 PM, Martin Steer wrote:

> On Sun, Sep 09, 2012 at 06:44:12PM -0500, Billie Walsh wrote:
>
>> need. The issue is that it just doesn't work "for" me. I "need/want" to
>> have one database that is shared over several machines [ Desktop,
>> laptop, netbooks, etc. ] I have my database in Dropbox and can make
>> changes on any machine and they are immediately on my other machines.
>> This is very problematical to do with Gramps. To my thinking this is the
>> biggest downfall of Gramps.
>
> Hi Billie,
>
> Just curious. If you're working this way with PAF, does that mean that
> the database in Dropbox is a gedcom file? If it is, why is PAF + gedcom
> file in Dropbox better than Gramps + xml (or gedcom) file in Dropbox?
>

Is GEDCOM the native PAF format which doesn't require you to drop and
re-imported every time?

I think this is a segue into the discussion from a couple of months ago
regarding porting gramps from bsddb to sqlite.  The brave soul (Doug
Blank?) rearchitected the schema and got fancy with lots of joins.
Performance tanked.


--
If adults of legally sound mind must be told what foods they
are not allowed to buy, then those people are not competent
to choose (i.e. vote for) their own leaders.

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Re: My thoughts

Billie Walsh
In reply to this post by Martin Steer-2
On 09/09/2012 09:30 PM, Martin Steer wrote:

> On Sun, Sep 09, 2012 at 06:44:12PM -0500, Billie Walsh wrote:
>
>> need. The issue is that it just doesn't work "for" me. I "need/want" to
>> have one database that is shared over several machines [ Desktop,
>> laptop, netbooks, etc. ] I have my database in Dropbox and can make
>> changes on any machine and they are immediately on my other machines.
>> This is very problematical to do with Gramps. To my thinking this is the
>> biggest downfall of Gramps.
> Hi Billie,
>
> Just curious. If you're working this way with PAF, does that mean that
> the database in Dropbox is a gedcom file? If it is, why is PAF + gedcom
> file in Dropbox better than Gramps + xml (or gedcom) file in Dropbox?
>
> M.

The database file is a "*****.paf" file. The native file format of PAF.
I have no idea how it's constructed. PAF also generates a backup
periodically, also kept in Dropbox. I do also keep a fresh .ged file but
that's sort of a secondary backup.


--
A veteran is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a blank check made payable to ‘The United States of America’ for any amount, up to  and including their life.


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Re: My thoughts

Benny Malengier


2012/9/10 Billie Walsh <[hidden email]>
On 09/09/2012 09:30 PM, Martin Steer wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 09, 2012 at 06:44:12PM -0500, Billie Walsh wrote:
>
>> need. The issue is that it just doesn't work "for" me. I "need/want" to
>> have one database that is shared over several machines [ Desktop,
>> laptop, netbooks, etc. ] I have my database in Dropbox and can make
>> changes on any machine and they are immediately on my other machines.
>> This is very problematical to do with Gramps. To my thinking this is the
>> biggest downfall of Gramps.
> Hi Billie,
>
> Just curious. If you're working this way with PAF, does that mean that
> the database in Dropbox is a gedcom file? If it is, why is PAF + gedcom
> file in Dropbox better than Gramps + xml (or gedcom) file in Dropbox?
>
> M.

The database file is a "*****.paf" file. The native file format of PAF.
I have no idea how it's constructed. PAF also generates a backup
periodically, also kept in Dropbox. I do also keep a fresh .ged file but
that's sort of a secondary backup.


If you work at home with paf on, and in the library with no internet access, and you have changes in both places (so simultaneously), dropbox will not be able to sync, and you loose information. Try it.

Working with gramps from dropbox works, but is problematic for the same reason.

The only cloud computing that would work is a program that can handle it's own merge collisions. That does not exist for genealogy. The only thing that works is pure cloud, so with need of an internet connection, which is what gramps-connect.org develops.

So, Gramps is in this respect not worse than other genealogy desktop apps. If you work consecutively, it goes, if you work simultaneously, it fails.

Compare this to working with collegues on an excell sheet in Dropbox. Big problems. The only thing that works good for this is a service like google docs. This is precisely what gramps-connect is, but requires always connected to work.

Benny
 

--
A veteran is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a blank check made payable to ‘The United States of America’ for any amount, up to  and including their life.


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Re: My thoughts

ozdroggy
In reply to this post by Billie Walsh
Ok you win

What does 73 KA5LSU mean?
Mike.

LinuxMint Release 12 (Lisa)
Kernel Linux 3.0.0-12-generic
GNOME 3.2.1

GRAMPS: 3.4.0-1

Hardware: Dell DM-051
Memory: 3.4 GiB
Processor 0: Intel(R) Pentium(R) D CPU 3.2GHz
Processor 1: Intel(R) Pentium(R) D CPU 3.2GHz

System Status
Available disk space: 89.7 GiB
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Re: My thoughts

Peter Landgren
73 = "best wishes"
KA5LSU is an America radio amateur call sign.

73 de SM4ABE (Swedish call sign)


ozdroggy skrev 2012-09-10 09:37:

> Ok you win
>
> What does 73 KA5LSU mean?
>
>
>
> -----
> Mike.
>
> LinuxMint Release 12 (Lisa)
> Kernel Linux 3.0.0-12-generic
> GNOME 3.2.1
>
> GRAMPS: 3.4.0-1
>
> Hardware: Dell DM-051
> Memory: 3.4 GiB
> Processor 0: Intel(R) Pentium(R) D CPU 3.2GHz
> Processor 1: Intel(R) Pentium(R) D CPU 3.2GHz
>
> System Status
> Available disk space: 89.7 GiB
> --
> View this message in context: http://gramps.1791082.n4.nabble.com/My-thoughts-tp4656332p4656340.html
> Sent from the GRAMPS - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
>


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Re: My thoughts

Nick Wallingford-2
In reply to this post by ozdroggy
Ham radio talk - "Regards, his callsign"...

de ZL1BSN

On 10/09/12 19:37, ozdroggy wrote:

> Ok you win
>
> What does 73 KA5LSU mean?
>
>
>
> -----
> Mike.
>
> LinuxMint Release 12 (Lisa)
> Kernel Linux 3.0.0-12-generic
> GNOME 3.2.1
>
> GRAMPS: 3.4.0-1
>
> Hardware: Dell DM-051
> Memory: 3.4 GiB
> Processor 0: Intel(R) Pentium(R) D CPU 3.2GHz
> Processor 1: Intel(R) Pentium(R) D CPU 3.2GHz
>
> System Status
> Available disk space: 89.7 GiB
> --
> View this message in context: http://gramps.1791082.n4.nabble.com/My-thoughts-tp4656332p4656340.html
> Sent from the GRAMPS - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
>

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Re: My thoughts

jerome
In reply to this post by Billie Walsh
Do you really still use (day use) PAF?

Why not!

Maybe you know that this program will dead soon ?
OK, once FamilySearch will have an alternate environment.

http://www.tamurajones.net/WhyPAFIsStillPopular.xhtml

Le 10/09/2012 01:44, Billie Walsh a écrit :

> Normally I don't say much when I decide to leave a list. In this
> instance I wanted to tell why I'm leaving. It speak to one of the main
> issues that come up on the list.
>
> I tried Gramps for a long time. It just doesn't work as I need my
> genealogy database program to work. I'm not saying that Gramps is a bad
> program. Point of fact, it is probably way more program that I actually
> need. The issue is that it just doesn't work "for" me. I "need/want" to
> have one database that is shared over several machines [ Desktop,
> laptop, netbooks, etc. ] I have my database in Dropbox and can make
> changes on any machine and they are immediately on my other machines.
> This is very problematical to do with Gramps. To my thinking this is the
> biggest downfall of Gramps.
>
> If users had one computer and did their research at the library on
> pencil and paper, came home and entered everything into their database,
> Gramps is terrific. The thing is, todays world is increasingly a mobil
> world. We have smart phones, tablets, netbooks, laptops, all sorts of
> stuff. We go to the library with our laptop/tablet/netbook [ pick your
> poison ]. Why come home and have to re-enter everything. Enter it on
> your portable device and it is updated on all your machines.
>
> As just a matter of information, I've gone back to my old Windows
> genealogy program running under Wine, PAF 5.0.
>
> Thank you to the developers for a great program [ Gramps ]. If they can
> make the database portable it would be perfect.
>
> I will be unsubscribing from the list very shortly. Thank you all for a
> great experience.
>


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Re: My thoughts

Billie Walsh
In reply to this post by Benny Malengier
On 09/10/2012 02:36 AM, Benny Malengier wrote:


2012/9/10 Billie Walsh <[hidden email]>
On 09/09/2012 09:30 PM, Martin Steer wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 09, 2012 at 06:44:12PM -0500, Billie Walsh wrote:
>
>> need. The issue is that it just doesn't work "for" me. I "need/want" to
>> have one database that is shared over several machines [ Desktop,
>> laptop, netbooks, etc. ] I have my database in Dropbox and can make
>> changes on any machine and they are immediately on my other machines.
>> This is very problematical to do with Gramps. To my thinking this is the
>> biggest downfall of Gramps.
> Hi Billie,
>
> Just curious. If you're working this way with PAF, does that mean that
> the database in Dropbox is a gedcom file? If it is, why is PAF + gedcom
> file in Dropbox better than Gramps + xml (or gedcom) file in Dropbox?
>
> M.

The database file is a "*****.paf" file. The native file format of PAF.
I have no idea how it's constructed. PAF also generates a backup
periodically, also kept in Dropbox. I do also keep a fresh .ged file but
that's sort of a secondary backup.


If you work at home with paf on, and in the library with no internet access, and you have changes in both places (so simultaneously), dropbox will not be able to sync, and you loose information. Try it.

Working with gramps from dropbox works, but is problematic for the same reason.

The only cloud computing that would work is a program that can handle it's own merge collisions. That does not exist for genealogy. The only thing that works is pure cloud, so with need of an internet connection, which is what gramps-connect.org develops.

So, Gramps is in this respect not worse than other genealogy desktop apps. If you work consecutively, it goes, if you work simultaneously, it fails.

Compare this to working with collegues on an excell sheet in Dropbox. Big problems. The only thing that works good for this is a service like google docs. This is precisely what gramps-connect is, but requires always connected to work.

Benny

If there is no access I can just bring the laptop/netbook home, or go to a coffee shop maybe, and connect to the internet. Everything is synched up. If I use the netbook at the county courthouse someplace away from home when I get back to the hotel I connect and everything is synched. We also have a Sprint wireless card with a wireless router that we travel with. We can have several machines with internet going seventy miles an hour down the interstate. I could synch from anywhere I can hit a Sprint tower [ and with the amplifier and external antenna on the sprint card that's about twenty or thirty miles range ]. There's no possible way I can be at home and at the library at the same time so I can't have the database open in two places at the same time. If I'm home I wouldn't be making changes on two machines. No one else collaborates with me on the same database.

If your even semi-intelligent synching up the computers through Dropbox is no problem at all. Every computer I use has the latest version of the database at all times.
-- 
A veteran is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a blank check made payable to ‘The United States of America’ for any amount, up to  and including their life. 


_ _...  ..._ _
_._  ._  .....  ._..  ...  .._

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Re: My thoughts

Billie Walsh
In reply to this post by ozdroggy
On 09/10/2012 02:37 AM, ozdroggy wrote:
> Ok you win
>
> What does 73 KA5LSU mean?
>
>

As far as I know your the first person to figure it out.

"73" [ seven three ] is amateur radio short hand. Kind of like saying
"have a great day". KA5LSU is my amateur radio call/station ID.

--
A veteran is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a blank check made payable to ‘The United States of America’ for any amount, up to  and including their life.


_ _...  ..._ _
_._  ._  .....  ._..  ...  .._


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Re: My thoughts

Billie Walsh
In reply to this post by jerome
On 09/10/2012 03:16 AM, Jérôme wrote:
> Do you really still use (day use) PAF?
>
> Why not!
>
> Maybe you know that this program will dead soon ?
> OK, once FamilySearch will have an alternate environment.
>
> http://www.tamurajones.net/WhyPAFIsStillPopular.xhtml

I know PAF is really old. Probably been out of date for the last ten
years at least. Newer programs have a lot more bells and whistles, but
do bells and whistles always make it better. The thing is, it just works.

They've been saying for years that PAF was going to die. So
far...................

There are a few issues with the article in the link.

There is no relation between the earliest versions of PAF and versions
four and five. Four came about when the LDS was given an old version of
a popular genealogy program when it was bought out by another company.  
Four had minimal changes and five had more.

With all the different programs I've tried out over the years most are
"updated" by adding some bell or whistle [ change the color scheme or
the splash screen ] to make it "New and Improved." Maybe they fix some
bug or something but it's mostly to get you to buy the "Latest and
Greatest" and make them money. My ol' Gran Pappy used to say, "If'n it
ain't broke, don't fix it." For the most part a genealogy program is
supposed to keep everyone ordered and in place. Keep data attached to
the person it is supposed to go with. PAF does this just as well as the
newest, flashiest, "Latest and Greatest" out there.

How much do I want to really believe written by a person that considers
the LDS as a "cult" and not a religion. It shows the bias of the author.

--
A veteran is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a blank check made payable to ‘The United States of America’ for any amount, up to  and including their life.


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Re: My thoughts

Jesse Meyer
In reply to this post by Billie Walsh
On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 6:59 AM, Billie Walsh <[hidden email]> wrote:
    If there is no access I can just bring the laptop/netbook home, or go to a coffee shop maybe, and connect to the internet. Everything is synched up. If I use the netbook at the county courthouse someplace away from home when I get back to the hotel I connect and everything is synched. We also have a Sprint wireless card with a wireless router that we travel with. We can have several machines with internet going seventy miles an hour down the interstate. I could synch from anywhere I can hit a Sprint tower [ and with the amplifier and external antenna on the sprint card that's about twenty or thirty miles range ]. There's no possible way I can be at home and at the library at the same time so I can't have the database open in two places at the same time. If I'm home I wouldn't be making changes on two machines. No one else collaborates with me on the same database.
 
Interesting.
 
I would assume that Gramps should work with a similar setup, assuming you are using the exact same version of the software on all machines, and assuming you only have the database open in one copy of gramps at a time (Gramps locks the file to prevent more than one program altering the file at a time).
 
So what fails?
 
And what's the technical reason for it failing?
 
Thanks

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Re: My thoughts

Benny Malengier


2012/9/10 Jesse Meyer <[hidden email]>
On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 6:59 AM, Billie Walsh <[hidden email]> wrote:
    If there is no access I can just bring the laptop/netbook home, or go to a coffee shop maybe, and connect to the internet. Everything is synched up. If I use the netbook at the county courthouse someplace away from home when I get back to the hotel I connect and everything is synched. We also have a Sprint wireless card with a wireless router that we travel with. We can have several machines with internet going seventy miles an hour down the interstate. I could synch from anywhere I can hit a Sprint tower [ and with the amplifier and external antenna on the sprint card that's about twenty or thirty miles range ]. There's no possible way I can be at home and at the library at the same time so I can't have the database open in two places at the same time. If I'm home I wouldn't be making changes on two machines. No one else collaborates with me on the same database.
 
Interesting.
 
I would assume that Gramps should work with a similar setup, assuming you are using the exact same version of the software on all machines, and assuming you only have the database open in one copy of gramps at a time (Gramps locks the file to prevent more than one program altering the file at a time).
 
So what fails?
 
And what's the technical reason for it failing?

This works, see eg: http://gramps.1791082.n4.nabble.com/Gramps-inside-Dropbox-td4594898.html

The tip there to use an usb drive on the move seems like a good idea also. I would nevertheless do a backup via the Family Tree menu to avoid damage to the usb key. Pulling out a usb drive while saving to it could also cause big problems (as data is in memory, not on the usb).
 
Benny
 
Thanks

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Re: My thoughts

Billie Walsh
In reply to this post by Jesse Meyer
On 09/10/2012 08:17 AM, Jesse Meyer wrote:
On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 6:59 AM, Billie Walsh <[hidden email]> wrote:
    If there is no access I can just bring the laptop/netbook home, or go to a coffee shop maybe, and connect to the internet. Everything is synched up. If I use the netbook at the county courthouse someplace away from home when I get back to the hotel I connect and everything is synched. We also have a Sprint wireless card with a wireless router that we travel with. We can have several machines with internet going seventy miles an hour down the interstate. I could synch from anywhere I can hit a Sprint tower [ and with the amplifier and external antenna on the sprint card that's about twenty or thirty miles range ]. There's no possible way I can be at home and at the library at the same time so I can't have the database open in two places at the same time. If I'm home I wouldn't be making changes on two machines. No one else collaborates with me on the same database.
 
Interesting.
 
I would assume that Gramps should work with a similar setup, assuming you are using the exact same version of the software on all machines, and assuming you only have the database open in one copy of gramps at a time (Gramps locks the file to prevent more than one program altering the file at a time).
 
So what fails?
 
And what's the technical reason for it failing?
 
Thanks

The issue I see is the issue in another thread at this time. Gramps tends to choke and puke if there's a version disconnect. Traditionally Gramps databases are not terribly portable.


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Re: My thoughts

jerome
In reply to this post by Billie Walsh
> How much do I want to really believe written by a person that considers
> the LDS as a "cult" and not a religion. It shows the bias of the author.

Me or Tamura Jones?
http://www.tamurajones.net/WhatWhere.xhtml

Note, in Europe, there is some secular countries, where religious means
something else! I can understand why LDS is not considered as a
religion!!! Maybe there is just a misunderstanding about "cult vs
religion" usage in some part of Europe?

I have no problem with mormons!
But rather talking about LDS and Gramps.

What should be the future of the LDS support into Person and Family
records? Gramps provides a support (editors/database) and it was into
GEDCOM 5.5 specification, but LDS seems to ignore them on new API... :(
What does it mean? What should be done with data set by users?

I can easily understand Mr. Jones' comments, because since many years
LDS are starting things and never make it 'commonly/stable available'.
Maybe frustration about the LDS manpower (+ money) and usage, for a
better genealogical search? It sounds like multiple private then open
testing/drafts.

Remember RIN (Record Id Number), REFN (User Reference Number) token/tags
into Gedcom, maybe a nice idea, but never really used.

https://github.com/FamilySearch/gedcomx/wiki/Legacy-GEDCOM-Migration-Path

> There is no relation between the earliest versions of PAF and versions
> four and five. Four came about when the LDS was given an old version of
> a popular genealogy program when it was bought out by another company.
> Four had minimal changes and five had more.

Well, for me, there is a problem between PAF4 and PAF5!
There is no more support for the french locale under PAF5? Why?
I cannot think that there is not at least one person who can translate
PAF5 into french?

Note, I know that there is no LDS temple in France, but it is right to
miss to support good places for making genealogy according to LDS?
And it was supported by PAF4 !!!

> The thing is, it just works.

That's also why I noted 'Why not!'

So, you know the current PAF limitations which will never be fixed, but
you use it because it is just what you need. The main difference is
maybe that Gramps is always trying to makes things better, even it
sometimes generates errors or needs more testing and experimentations...

Good genealogical searches under PAF or Gramps!


Le 10/09/2012 14:36, Billie Walsh a écrit :

> On 09/10/2012 03:16 AM, Jérôme wrote:
>> Do you really still use (day use) PAF?
>>
>> Why not!
>>
>> Maybe you know that this program will dead soon ?
>> OK, once FamilySearch will have an alternate environment.
>>
>> http://www.tamurajones.net/WhyPAFIsStillPopular.xhtml
>
> I know PAF is really old. Probably been out of date for the last ten
> years at least. Newer programs have a lot more bells and whistles, but
> do bells and whistles always make it better. The thing is, it just works.
>
> They've been saying for years that PAF was going to die. So
> far...................
>
> There are a few issues with the article in the link.
>
> There is no relation between the earliest versions of PAF and versions
> four and five. Four came about when the LDS was given an old version of
> a popular genealogy program when it was bought out by another company.
> Four had minimal changes and five had more.
>
> With all the different programs I've tried out over the years most are
> "updated" by adding some bell or whistle [ change the color scheme or
> the splash screen ] to make it "New and Improved." Maybe they fix some
> bug or something but it's mostly to get you to buy the "Latest and
> Greatest" and make them money. My ol' Gran Pappy used to say, "If'n it
> ain't broke, don't fix it." For the most part a genealogy program is
> supposed to keep everyone ordered and in place. Keep data attached to
> the person it is supposed to go with. PAF does this just as well as the
> newest, flashiest, "Latest and Greatest" out there.
>
> How much do I want to really believe written by a person that considers
> the LDS as a "cult" and not a religion. It shows the bias of the author.
>


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Re: My thoughts

Benny Malengier
In reply to this post by Billie Walsh


2012/9/10 Billie Walsh <[hidden email]>

The issue I see is the issue in another thread at this time. Gramps tends to choke and puke if there's a version disconnect. Traditionally Gramps databases are not terribly portable.

The old deprecated .grdb format was not portable, the current version can actually be copied around (try it, easy to verify, do make a backup first), but one cannot open a database touched by a more recent database version by a later database version. I don't mind this, as the OS (and hence database version) on all my computers is the same anyway.

Benny


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Re: My thoughts

jerome
In reply to this post by Billie Walsh
Billie,

> How much do I want to really believe written by a person that considers
> the LDS as a "cult" and not a religion. It shows the bias of the author.

I suppose that I found the sentence you do not like on the page "PAF is
the only genealogy application offered by the Latter-Day Saints (LDS),
the largest mormon cult."

I am not the author but I understand this like 'religion in the common
day/society' ... Double meaning of cult!
 From interpersonal relations to religions.
ex: money cult, university cult, 'Apple©® cult, family cult, god cult,
etc ...

LDS is not the mormons and the mormons are not LDS, right?
And I suppose that some mormons do not look at LDS? "The largest" seems
to mean that there is multiple parts, no?

For genealgical usage, I guess that the most important is the LDS.
Does it mean that only mormons are allowed to contact and work with LDS?

See also: 'faith tab' on mailing list
http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=28980760


Le 10/09/2012 14:36, Billie Walsh a écrit :

> On 09/10/2012 03:16 AM, Jérôme wrote:
>> Do you really still use (day use) PAF?
>>
>> Why not!
>>
>> Maybe you know that this program will dead soon ?
>> OK, once FamilySearch will have an alternate environment.
>>
>> http://www.tamurajones.net/WhyPAFIsStillPopular.xhtml
>
> I know PAF is really old. Probably been out of date for the last ten
> years at least. Newer programs have a lot more bells and whistles, but
> do bells and whistles always make it better. The thing is, it just works.
>
> They've been saying for years that PAF was going to die. So
> far...................
>
> There are a few issues with the article in the link.
>
> There is no relation between the earliest versions of PAF and versions
> four and five. Four came about when the LDS was given an old version of
> a popular genealogy program when it was bought out by another company.
> Four had minimal changes and five had more.
>
> With all the different programs I've tried out over the years most are
> "updated" by adding some bell or whistle [ change the color scheme or
> the splash screen ] to make it "New and Improved." Maybe they fix some
> bug or something but it's mostly to get you to buy the "Latest and
> Greatest" and make them money. My ol' Gran Pappy used to say, "If'n it
> ain't broke, don't fix it." For the most part a genealogy program is
> supposed to keep everyone ordered and in place. Keep data attached to
> the person it is supposed to go with. PAF does this just as well as the
> newest, flashiest, "Latest and Greatest" out there.
>
> How much do I want to really believe written by a person that considers
> the LDS as a "cult" and not a religion. It shows the bias of the author.
>


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Re: My thoughts

Tim Lyons
Administrator
In reply to this post by Benny Malengier

Benny Malengier wrote

>
> 2012/9/10 Billie Walsh &lt;bilwalsh@&gt;
>
>>
>> The issue I see is the issue in another thread at this time. Gramps tends
>> to choke and puke if there's a version disconnect. Traditionally Gramps
>> databases are not terribly portable.
>>
>
> The old deprecated .grdb format was not portable, the current version can
> actually be copied around (try it, easy to verify, do make a backup
> first),
> but one cannot open a database touched by a more recent database version
> by
> a later database version. I don't mind this, as the OS (and hence database
> version) on all my computers is the same anyway.
>

Database upgrade is clearly a problem.  See [1] and [2], for example.

Creating a dump of the old database as soon as Gramps discovers that the
database version has changed sounds like a good idea.

Note that e.g. Ubuntu seems to have Gramps 3.3.1 as the standard installed
version, so many people are on older versions. We should should not forget
the need to support older versions, not just the latest and greatest.
Possibly one of the best things about PAF is that it doesn't change much.


[1] http://gramps.1791082.n4.nabble.com/Re-Gramps-database-td4656375.html
[2]
http://gramps.1791082.n4.nabble.com/Suggestion-GRAMPS-db-conversion-util-td4656318.html




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View this message in context: http://gramps.1791082.n4.nabble.com/My-thoughts-tp4656332p4656428.html
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Re: My thoughts

Tim Lyons
Administrator
In reply to this post by Benny Malengier
Benny Malengier wrote
2012/9/10 Billie Walsh <[hidden email]>

>
> The issue I see is the issue in another thread at this time. Gramps tends
> to choke and puke if there's a version disconnect. Traditionally Gramps
> databases are not terribly portable.
>

The old deprecated .grdb format was not portable, the current version can
actually be copied around (try it, easy to verify, do make a backup first),
but one cannot open a database touched by a more recent database version by
a later database version. I don't mind this, as the OS (and hence database
version) on all my computers is the same anyway.
Database upgrade is clearly a problem.  See [1] and [2], for example.

Creating a dump of the old database as soon as Gramps discovers that the database version has changed sounds like a good idea.

Note that e.g. Ubuntu seems to have Gramps 3.3.1 as the standard installed version, so many people are on older versions. We should should not forget the need to support older versions, not just the latest and greatest. Possibly one of the best things about PAF is that it doesn't change much.


[1] http://gramps.1791082.n4.nabble.com/Re-Gramps-database-td4656375.html
[2] http://gramps.1791082.n4.nabble.com/Suggestion-GRAMPS-db-conversion-util-td4656318.html
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