Names: Three newbie questions

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Names: Three newbie questions

Ralph Spilsport
Folks,

I am running Gramps 3.3.1 (AIO v. 2) on Windows Vista. I am completely new to Gramps.

Three questions re names. Very newbie, and perhaps covered in the documentation, but I couldn't find answers there.

1. Given names: How do I enter variants of given names? For example, one set of variations could be: Frank (primary variant), Frenk and Franz (additional, less frequent spellings). Is there a way to choose a name Type of "Also Known As" and have it refer to a Given Name? I don't see a way to do this.

2. Same question regarding surnames.For example, Smith (primary variant) and Psmith (the "p" is silent).

3. Similar question regarding married and maiden names.Here's why I ask. When go to the People view and double click on a name, the name window opens. Assume the person whose name has been clicked is a married woman who uses her husband's surname as well as her own maiden name in the traditional Given name, Maiden name, Husband's surname order.

The window shows Type: Birth name. Presumably this refers not to the Given name, but to surnames. I have entered two different surnames, one the maiden name, one the husband's family name. I have selected the husband's surname as the primary surname. The window's title gives the correct ordering: maiden name husband's surname, given name. But when I select the husband's surname and then change the type to married name and then select the maiden name, the type does not change to birth name, but remains as married name. The same happens if I try this the other way: selecting the maiden name first, changing type to birth name and then selecting the husband's surname. In this case, the type remains birth name after the husband's surname is selected.

So what is Type all about? And how to I specify birth and married names? The way I have in fact entered them seems right to me: maiden name as one entry and husband's surname as another. But I suppose it could be maiden name as one entry and maiden name and husband's surname as another.

Thanks for any help you can give. 

Ralph


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Re: Names: Three newbie questions

Benny Malengier
2012/1/21 Ralph Spilsport <[hidden email]>:

> Folks,
>
> I am running Gramps 3.3.1 (AIO v. 2) on Windows Vista. I am completely new
> to Gramps.
>
> Three questions re names. Very newbie, and perhaps covered in the
> documentation, but I couldn't find answers there.
>
> 1. Given names: How do I enter variants of given names? For example, one set
> of variations could be: Frank (primary variant), Frenk and Franz
> (additional, less frequent spellings). Is there a way to choose a name Type
> of "Also Known As" and have it refer to a Given Name? I don't see a way to
> do this.

In the person view, in the tab pages, you see 'Alternative Names'. You
should give variants there as new names, which are alternative names.
The top part of the person editor, shows the name which is the default
name. Right clicking on an alternative name, allows you to swap it
with the default name.

Make sure your name type is something that is correct. I mean here, a
birth name is the one on a birth certificate, a married name the one
taken after marriage, ...
Don't make mistakes there, and add sources to the alternative names
via the name editor, or you will not remember where you found the
variant.

>
> 2. Same question regarding surnames.For example, Smith (primary variant) and
> Psmith (the "p" is silent).

See above. When you search on a name, the alternative names are also searched.

>
> 3. Similar question regarding married and maiden names.Here's why I ask.
> When go to the People view and double click on a name, the name window
> opens. Assume the person whose name has been clicked is a married woman who
> uses her husband's surname as well as her own maiden name in the traditional
> Given name, Maiden name, Husband's surname order.
>
> The window shows Type: Birth name. Presumably this refers not to the Given
> name, but to surnames. I have entered two different surnames, one the maiden
> name, one the husband's family name. I have selected the husband's surname
> as the primary surname. The window's title gives the correct ordering:
> maiden name husband's surname, given name. But when I select the husband's
> surname and then change the type to married name and then select the maiden
> name, the type does not change to birth name, but remains as married name.

Yes, so one name is one name type, via alternative names you enter
extra names. You can use the clipboard to copy paste the equal parts.

See documentation on alternative names.

Benny

> The same happens if I try this the other way: selecting the maiden name
> first, changing type to birth name and then selecting the husband's surname.
> In this case, the type remains birth name after the husband's surname is
> selected.
>
> So what is Type all about? And how to I specify birth and married names? The
> way I have in fact entered them seems right to me: maiden name as one entry
> and husband's surname as another. But I suppose it could be maiden name as
> one entry and maiden name and husband's surname as another.
>
> Thanks for any help you can give.
>
> Ralph
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3,
> Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now!
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> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
>

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Re: Names: Three newbie questions

Peter G
As an example,
My great mother was Rose Tatelbaum. That's the birth name, with a source of her three daughter's birth certificates. Alternate birth name Rose Tatlebaum, source her brother's marriage certificate and all other records from her brother's side of the family for the varient spelling of the last name.

Her married name was Golden. Source 1910 US census and her daughter's birth certificates for her husband's last name.  Alternate married name of Goldin, source 1920 US census. 

Peter


From: Benny Malengier <[hidden email]>

2012/1/21 Ralph Spilsport <[hidden email]>:

> Folks,
>
> I am running Gramps 3.3.1 (AIO v. 2) on Windows Vista. I am completely new
> to Gramps.
>
> Three questions re names. Very newbie, and perhaps covered in the
> documentation, but I couldn't find answers there.
>
> 1. Given names: How do I enter variants of given names? For example, one set
> of variations could be: Frank (primary variant), Frenk and Franz
> (additional, less frequent spellings). Is there a way to choose a name Type
> of "Also Known As" and have it refer to a Given Name? I don't see a way to
> do this.

In the person view, in the tab pages, you see 'Alternative Names'. You
should give variants there as new names, which are alternative names.
The top part of the person editor, shows the name which is the default
name. Right clicking on an alternative name, allows you to swap it
with the default name.

Make sure your name type is something that is correct. I mean here, a
birth name is the one on a birth certificate, a married name the one
taken after marriage, ...
Don't make mistakes there, and add sources to the alternative names
via the name editor, or you will not remember where you found the
variant.

>
> 2. Same question regarding surnames.For example, Smith (primary variant) and
> Psmith (the "p" is silent).

See above. When you search on a name, the alternative names are also searched.

>
> 3. Similar question regarding married and maiden names.Here's why I ask.
> When go to the People view and double click on a name, the name window
> opens. Assume the person whose name has been clicked is a married woman who
> uses her husband's surname as well as her own maiden name in the traditional
> Given name, Maiden name, Husband's surname order.
>
> The window shows Type: Birth name. Presumably this refers not to the Given
> name, but to surnames. I have entered two different surnames, one the maiden
> name, one the husband's family name. I have selected the husband's surname
> as the primary surname. The window's title gives the correct ordering:
> maiden name husband's surname, given name. But when I select the husband's
> surname and then change the type to married name and then select the maiden
> name, the type does not change to birth name, but remains as married name.

Yes, so one name is one name type, via alternative names you enter
extra names. You can use the clipboard to copy paste the equal parts.

See documentation on alternative names.

Benny

> The same happens if I try this the other way: selecting the maiden name
> first, changing type to birth name and then selecting the husband's surname.
> In this case, the type remains birth name after the husband's surname is
> selected.
>
> So what is Type all about? And how to I specify birth and married names? The
> way I have in fact entered them seems right to me: maiden name as one entry
> and husband's surname as another. But I suppose it could be maiden name as
> one entry and maiden name and husband's surname as another.
>
> Thanks for any help you can give.
>
> Ralph
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Try before you buy = See our experts in action!
> The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers
> is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3,
> Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now!
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
>

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Re: Names: Three newbie questions

Ralph Spilsport
In reply to this post by Benny Malengier
Dear Benny,

Many thanks. Much appreciated. One thing:

It seems that I have to enter a full name, given names and surnames, for married name? I can't just enter a married surname and rely on Gramps to assume that if the given name is left blank it is the same as the birth name given name. Or so it seems to me. Am I right about this?

All the best,

Ralph


From: Benny Malengier <[hidden email]>
To: Ralph Spilsport <[hidden email]>
Cc: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 12:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] Names: Three newbie questions

2012/1/21 Ralph Spilsport <[hidden email]>:

> Folks,
>
> I am running Gramps 3.3.1 (AIO v. 2) on Windows Vista. I am completely new
> to Gramps.
>
> Three questions re names. Very newbie, and perhaps covered in the
> documentation, but I couldn't find answers there.
>
> 1. Given names: How do I enter variants of given names? For example, one set
> of variations could be: Frank (primary variant), Frenk and Franz
> (additional, less frequent spellings). Is there a way to choose a name Type
> of "Also Known As" and have it refer to a Given Name? I don't see a way to
> do this.

In the person view, in the tab pages, you see 'Alternative Names'. You
should give variants there as new names, which are alternative names.
The top part of the person editor, shows the name which is the default
name. Right clicking on an alternative name, allows you to swap it
with the default name.

Make sure your name type is something that is correct. I mean here, a
birth name is the one on a birth certificate, a married name the one
taken after marriage, ...
Don't make mistakes there, and add sources to the alternative names
via the name editor, or you will not remember where you found the
variant.

>
> 2. Same question regarding surnames.For example, Smith (primary variant) and
> Psmith (the "p" is silent).

See above. When you search on a name, the alternative names are also searched.

>
> 3. Similar question regarding married and maiden names.Here's why I ask.
> When go to the People view and double click on a name, the name window
> opens. Assume the person whose name has been clicked is a married woman who
> uses her husband's surname as well as her own maiden name in the traditional
> Given name, Maiden name, Husband's surname order.
>
> The window shows Type: Birth name. Presumably this refers not to the Given
> name, but to surnames. I have entered two different surnames, one the maiden
> name, one the husband's family name. I have selected the husband's surname
> as the primary surname. The window's title gives the correct ordering:
> maiden name husband's surname, given name. But when I select the husband's
> surname and then change the type to married name and then select the maiden
> name, the type does not change to birth name, but remains as married name.

Yes, so one name is one name type, via alternative names you enter
extra names. You can use the clipboard to copy paste the equal parts.

See documentation on alternative names.

Benny

> The same happens if I try this the other way: selecting the maiden name
> first, changing type to birth name and then selecting the husband's surname.
> In this case, the type remains birth name after the husband's surname is
> selected.
>
> So what is Type all about? And how to I specify birth and married names? The
> way I have in fact entered them seems right to me: maiden name as one entry
> and husband's surname as another. But I suppose it could be maiden name as
> one entry and maiden name and husband's surname as another.
>
> Thanks for any help you can give.
>
> Ralph
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Try before you buy = See our experts in action!
> The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers
> is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3,
> Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now!
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
>



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Re: Names: Three newbie questions

Benny Malengier
2012/1/22 Ralph Spilsport <[hidden email]>:
> Dear Benny,
>
> Many thanks. Much appreciated. One thing:
>
> It seems that I have to enter a full name, given names and surnames, for
> married name? I can't just enter a married surname and rely on Gramps to
> assume that if the given name is left blank it is the same as the birth name
> given name. Or so it seems to me. Am I right about this?

Yes, that is why I mentioned the clipboard to copy a frame of the name.

Benny

>
> All the best,
>
> Ralph
>
> ________________________________
> From: Benny Malengier <[hidden email]>
> To: Ralph Spilsport <[hidden email]>
> Cc: "[hidden email]"
> <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 12:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] Names: Three newbie questions
>
> 2012/1/21 Ralph Spilsport <[hidden email]>:
>> Folks,
>>
>> I am running Gramps 3.3.1 (AIO v. 2) on Windows Vista. I am completely new
>> to Gramps.
>>
>> Three questions re names. Very newbie, and perhaps covered in the
>> documentation, but I couldn't find answers there.
>>
>> 1. Given names: How do I enter variants of given names? For example, one
>> set
>> of variations could be: Frank (primary variant), Frenk and Franz
>> (additional, less frequent spellings). Is there a way to choose a name
>> Type
>> of "Also Known As" and have it refer to a Given Name? I don't see a way to
>> do this.
>
> In the person view, in the tab pages, you see 'Alternative Names'. You
> should give variants there as new names, which are alternative names.
> The top part of the person editor, shows the name which is the default
> name. Right clicking on an alternative name, allows you to swap it
> with the default name.
>
> Make sure your name type is something that is correct. I mean here, a
> birth name is the one on a birth certificate, a married name the one
> taken after marriage, ...
> Don't make mistakes there, and add sources to the alternative names
> via the name editor, or you will not remember where you found the
> variant.
>
>>
>> 2. Same question regarding surnames.For example, Smith (primary variant)
>> and
>> Psmith (the "p" is silent).
>
> See above. When you search on a name, the alternative names are also
> searched.
>
>>
>> 3. Similar question regarding married and maiden names.Here's why I ask.
>> When go to the People view and double click on a name, the name window
>> opens. Assume the person whose name has been clicked is a married woman
>> who
>> uses her husband's surname as well as her own maiden name in the
>> traditional
>> Given name, Maiden name, Husband's surname order.
>>
>> The window shows Type: Birth name. Presumably this refers not to the Given
>> name, but to surnames. I have entered two different surnames, one the
>> maiden
>> name, one the husband's family name. I have selected the husband's surname
>> as the primary surname. The window's title gives the correct ordering:
>> maiden name husband's surname, given name. But when I select the husband's
>> surname and then change the type to married name and then select the
>> maiden
>> name, the type does not change to birth name, but remains as married name.
>
> Yes, so one name is one name type, via alternative names you enter
> extra names. You can use the clipboard to copy paste the equal parts.
>
> See documentation on alternative names.
>
> Benny
>
>> The same happens if I try this the other way: selecting the maiden name
>> first, changing type to birth name and then selecting the husband's
>> surname.
>> In this case, the type remains birth name after the husband's surname is
>> selected.
>>
>> So what is Type all about? And how to I specify birth and married names?
>> The
>> way I have in fact entered them seems right to me: maiden name as one
>> entry
>> and husband's surname as another. But I suppose it could be maiden name as
>> one entry and maiden name and husband's surname as another.
>>
>> Thanks for any help you can give.
>>
>> Ralph
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Try before you buy = See our experts in action!
>> The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers
>> is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3,
>> Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now!
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gramps-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
>>
>
>

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Re: Names: Three newbie questions

Ralph Spilsport
What I hope is a final question:

I've taken the advice below and fixed up my name entries for Frank Smith. I now have 6 entries, the total number of combinations of [Frank/Frenk/Franz] as given name and [Smith/Psmith] as surname. All well and good. Mostly.

When I click on the Ancestry category and then on the entry there for Frank Smith. all looks well with the Preferred name and the Alternative names. Same for the upper left hand corner where, under Preferred Name, Smith, Frank appears. The name of the window is also fine: Person: Smith, Frank.

The problem arises when I okay out of the editing windows. The Ancestry category shows, for lack of a better word, a cartouche that refers to Frank Smith. The problem is that the name shown in the cartouche is "Smith Psmith, Frank [Frenk?][ Franz?]", apparently a holdover from when I entered data incorrectly for both given and surnames.

Is there anyway to fix this short of deleting the person and starting over, which I really don't want to do or perhaps creating another person with the right preferred name and then merging it with the existing person?

All the best,

Ralph


From: Peter G <[hidden email]>
To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 2:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] Names: Three newbie questions

As an example,
My great mother was Rose Tatelbaum. That's the birth name, with a source of her three daughter's birth certificates. Alternate birth name Rose Tatlebaum, source her brother's marriage certificate and all other records from her brother's side of the family for the varient spelling of the last name.

Her married name was Golden. Source 1910 US census and her daughter's birth certificates for her husband's last name.  Alternate married name of Goldin, source 1920 US census. 

Peter



From: Benny Malengier <[hidden email]>
To: Ralph Spilsport <[hidden email]>
Cc: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 3:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] Names: Three newbie questions

2012/1/22 Ralph Spilsport <[hidden email]>:
> Dear Benny,
>
> Many thanks. Much appreciated. One thing:
>
> It seems that I have to enter a full name, given names and surnames, for
> married name? I can't just enter a married surname and rely on Gramps to
> assume that if the given name is left blank it is the same as the birth name
> given name. Or so it seems to me. Am I right about this?

Yes, that is why I mentioned the clipboard to copy a frame of the name.

Benny

>
> All the best,
>
> Ralph
>
> ________________________________
> From: Benny Malengier <[hidden email]>
> To: Ralph Spilsport <[hidden email]>
> Cc: "[hidden email]"
> <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 12:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] Names: Three newbie questions
>
> 2012/1/21 Ralph Spilsport <[hidden email]>:
>> Folks,
>>
>> I am running Gramps 3.3.1 (AIO v. 2) on Windows Vista. I am completely new
>> to Gramps.
>>
>> Three questions re names. Very newbie, and perhaps covered in the
>> documentation, but I couldn't find answers there.
>>
>> 1. Given names: How do I enter variants of given names? For example, one
>> set
>> of variations could be: Frank (primary variant), Frenk and Franz
>> (additional, less frequent spellings). Is there a way to choose a name
>> Type
>> of "Also Known As" and have it refer to a Given Name? I don't see a way to
>> do this.
>
> In the person view, in the tab pages, you see 'Alternative Names'. You
> should give variants there as new names, which are alternative names.
> The top part of the person editor, shows the name which is the default
> name. Right clicking on an alternative name, allows you to swap it
> with the default name.
>
> Make sure your name type is something that is correct. I mean here, a
> birth name is the one on a birth certificate, a married name the one
> taken after marriage, ...
> Don't make mistakes there, and add sources to the alternative names
> via the name editor, or you will not remember where you found the
> variant.
>
>>
>> 2. Same question regarding surnames.For example, Smith (primary variant)
>> and
>> Psmith (the "p" is silent).
>
> See above. When you search on a name, the alternative names are also
> searched.
>
>>
>> 3. Similar question regarding married and maiden names.Here's why I ask.
>> When go to the People view and double click on a name, the name window
>> opens. Assume the person whose name has been clicked is a married woman
>> who
>> uses her husband's surname as well as her own maiden name in the
>> traditional
>> Given name, Maiden name, Husband's surname order.
>>
>> The window shows Type: Birth name. Presumably this refers not to the Given
>> name, but to surnames. I have entered two different surnames, one the
>> maiden
>> name, one the husband's family name. I have selected the husband's surname
>> as the primary surname. The window's title gives the correct ordering:
>> maiden name husband's surname, given name. But when I select the husband's
>> surname and then change the type to married name and then select the
>> maiden
>> name, the type does not change to birth name, but remains as married name.
>
> Yes, so one name is one name type, via alternative names you enter
> extra names. You can use the clipboard to copy paste the equal parts.
>
> See documentation on alternative names.
>
> Benny
>
>> The same happens if I try this the other way: selecting the maiden name
>> first, changing type to birth name and then selecting the husband's
>> surname.
>> In this case, the type remains birth name after the husband's surname is
>> selected.
>>
>> So what is Type all about? And how to I specify birth and married names?
>> The
>> way I have in fact entered them seems right to me: maiden name as one
>> entry
>> and husband's surname as another. But I suppose it could be maiden name as
>> one entry and maiden name and husband's surname as another.
>>
>> Thanks for any help you can give.
>>
>> Ralph
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Try before you buy = See our experts in action!
>> The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers
>> is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3,
>> Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now!
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gramps-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
>>
>
>



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Re: Names: Three newbie questions

Benny Malengier
2012/1/22 Ralph Spilsport <[hidden email]>:

> What I hope is a final question:
>
> I've taken the advice below and fixed up my name entries for Frank Smith. I
> now have 6 entries, the total number of combinations of [Frank/Frenk/Franz]
> as given name and [Smith/Psmith] as surname. All well and good. Mostly.
>
> When I click on the Ancestry category and then on the entry there for Frank
> Smith. all looks well with the Preferred name and the Alternative names.
> Same for the upper left hand corner where, under Preferred Name, Smith,
> Frank appears. The name of the window is also fine: Person: Smith, Frank.
>
> The problem arises when I okay out of the editing windows. The Ancestry
> category shows, for lack of a better word, a cartouche that refers to Frank
> Smith. The problem is that the name shown in the cartouche is "Smith Psmith,
> Frank [Frenk?][ Franz?]", apparently a holdover from when I entered data
> incorrectly for both given and surnames.

Hmm, There must be a name like that somewhere in the list I think,
which you should delete.
Name format is set in the Preferences, and takes the default name to
determine how to show the name.  So it should be the default name that
causes it. Switch the default name for one of the alternate names
(right click on alternate name), click save,  and investigate how the
name formatting changes, and how that name looks in the name editor.
If a gramplet shows the old name, perhaps there is a caching problem?
A restart should show you if that is the case (so after restart all is
ok)
Let us know if you can make sense of it. If problems, send a
screenshot of what you see and make clear what you expect

About your many names, if there is no source for it, you should not
add a combination.
For an informal name of a person, you can use the nickname field also.

Benny

>
> Is there anyway to fix this short of deleting the person and starting over,
> which I really don't want to do or perhaps creating another person with the
> right preferred name and then merging it with the existing person?
>
> All the best,
>
> Ralph
>
> ________________________________
> From: Peter G <[hidden email]>
> To: "[hidden email]"
> <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 2:54 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] Names: Three newbie questions
>
> As an example,
> My great mother was Rose Tatelbaum. That's the birth name, with a source of
> her three daughter's birth certificates. Alternate birth name Rose
> Tatlebaum, source her brother's marriage certificate and all other records
> from her brother's side of the family for the varient spelling of the last
> name.
>
> Her married name was Golden. Source 1910 US census and her daughter's birth
> certificates for her husband's last name.  Alternate married name of Goldin,
> source 1920 US census.
>
> Peter
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Benny Malengier <[hidden email]>
> To: Ralph Spilsport <[hidden email]>
> Cc: "[hidden email]"
> <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 3:42 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] Names: Three newbie questions
>
> 2012/1/22 Ralph Spilsport <[hidden email]>:
>> Dear Benny,
>>
>> Many thanks. Much appreciated. One thing:
>>
>> It seems that I have to enter a full name, given names and surnames, for
>> married name? I can't just enter a married surname and rely on Gramps to
>> assume that if the given name is left blank it is the same as the birth
>> name
>> given name. Or so it seems to me. Am I right about this?
>
> Yes, that is why I mentioned the clipboard to copy a frame of the name.
>
> Benny
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> Ralph
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Benny Malengier <[hidden email]>
>> To: Ralph Spilsport <[hidden email]>
>> Cc: "[hidden email]"
>> <[hidden email]>
>> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 12:58 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] Names: Three newbie questions
>>
>> 2012/1/21 Ralph Spilsport <[hidden email]>:
>>> Folks,
>>>
>>> I am running Gramps 3.3.1 (AIO v. 2) on Windows Vista. I am completely
>>> new
>>> to Gramps.
>>>
>>> Three questions re names. Very newbie, and perhaps covered in the
>>> documentation, but I couldn't find answers there.
>>>
>>> 1. Given names: How do I enter variants of given names? For example, one
>>> set
>>> of variations could be: Frank (primary variant), Frenk and Franz
>>> (additional, less frequent spellings). Is there a way to choose a name
>>> Type
>>> of "Also Known As" and have it refer to a Given Name? I don't see a way
>>> to
>>> do this.
>>
>> In the person view, in the tab pages, you see 'Alternative Names'. You
>> should give variants there as new names, which are alternative names.
>> The top part of the person editor, shows the name which is the default
>> name. Right clicking on an alternative name, allows you to swap it
>> with the default name.
>>
>> Make sure your name type is something that is correct. I mean here, a
>> birth name is the one on a birth certificate, a married name the one
>> taken after marriage, ...
>> Don't make mistakes there, and add sources to the alternative names
>> via the name editor, or you will not remember where you found the
>> variant.
>>
>>>
>>> 2. Same question regarding surnames.For example, Smith (primary variant)
>>> and
>>> Psmith (the "p" is silent).
>>
>> See above. When you search on a name, the alternative names are also
>> searched.
>>
>>>
>>> 3. Similar question regarding married and maiden names.Here's why I ask.
>>> When go to the People view and double click on a name, the name window
>>> opens. Assume the person whose name has been clicked is a married woman
>>> who
>>> uses her husband's surname as well as her own maiden name in the
>>> traditional
>>> Given name, Maiden name, Husband's surname order.
>>>
>>> The window shows Type: Birth name. Presumably this refers not to the
>>> Given
>>> name, but to surnames. I have entered two different surnames, one the
>>> maiden
>>> name, one the husband's family name. I have selected the husband's
>>> surname
>>> as the primary surname. The window's title gives the correct ordering:
>>> maiden name husband's surname, given name. But when I select the
>>> husband's
>>> surname and then change the type to married name and then select the
>>> maiden
>>> name, the type does not change to birth name, but remains as married
>>> name.
>>
>> Yes, so one name is one name type, via alternative names you enter
>> extra names. You can use the clipboard to copy paste the equal parts.
>>
>> See documentation on alternative names.
>>
>> Benny
>>
>>> The same happens if I try this the other way: selecting the maiden name
>>> first, changing type to birth name and then selecting the husband's
>>> surname.
>>> In this case, the type remains birth name after the husband's surname is
>>> selected.
>>>
>>> So what is Type all about? And how to I specify birth and married names?
>>> The
>>> way I have in fact entered them seems right to me: maiden name as one
>>> entry
>>> and husband's surname as another. But I suppose it could be maiden name
>>> as
>>> one entry and maiden name and husband's surname as another.
>>>
>>> Thanks for any help you can give.
>>>
>>> Ralph
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Try before you buy = See our experts in action!
>>> The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers
>>> is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3,
>>> Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now!
>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Gramps-users mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

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Re: Names: Three newbie questions

Ralph Spilsport
I had already selected several different Preferred Names with no change to the cartouche label no matter whether I stayed with a new Preferred Name or returned to the original Preferred Name. Sorry for not mentioning that. What did work was shutting Gramps down and restarting it. All is now well, thanks very much.

Thanks also for the advice re multiple names. Unfortunately, they are indeed all attested. Movement across borders and phonetic spelling/illiteracy.

Your help, and the speed with which it is delivered, is deeply appreciated.


From: Benny Malengier <[hidden email]>
To: Ralph Spilsport <[hidden email]>
Cc: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 6:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] Names: Three newbie questions

2012/1/22 Ralph Spilsport <[hidden email]>:

> What I hope is a final question:
>
> I've taken the advice below and fixed up my name entries for Frank Smith. I
> now have 6 entries, the total number of combinations of [Frank/Frenk/Franz]
> as given name and [Smith/Psmith] as surname. All well and good. Mostly.
>
> When I click on the Ancestry category and then on the entry there for Frank
> Smith. all looks well with the Preferred name and the Alternative names.
> Same for the upper left hand corner where, under Preferred Name, Smith,
> Frank appears. The name of the window is also fine: Person: Smith, Frank.
>
> The problem arises when I okay out of the editing windows. The Ancestry
> category shows, for lack of a better word, a cartouche that refers to Frank
> Smith. The problem is that the name shown in the cartouche is "Smith Psmith,
> Frank [Frenk?][ Franz?]", apparently a holdover from when I entered data
> incorrectly for both given and surnames.

Hmm, There must be a name like that somewhere in the list I think,
which you should delete.
Name format is set in the Preferences, and takes the default name to
determine how to show the name.  So it should be the default name that
causes it. Switch the default name for one of the alternate names
(right click on alternate name), click save,  and investigate how the
name formatting changes, and how that name looks in the name editor.
If a gramplet shows the old name, perhaps there is a caching problem?
A restart should show you if that is the case (so after restart all is
ok)
Let us know if you can make sense of it. If problems, send a
screenshot of what you see and make clear what you expect

About your many names, if there is no source for it, you should not
add a combination.
For an informal name of a person, you can use the nickname field also.

Benny

>
> Is there anyway to fix this short of deleting the person and starting over,
> which I really don't want to do or perhaps creating another person with the
> right preferred name and then merging it with the existing person?
>
> All the best,
>
> Ralph
>
> ________________________________
> From: Peter G <[hidden email]>
> To: "[hidden email]"
> <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 2:54 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] Names: Three newbie questions
>
> As an example,
> My great mother was Rose Tatelbaum. That's the birth name, with a source of
> her three daughter's birth certificates. Alternate birth name Rose
> Tatlebaum, source her brother's marriage certificate and all other records
> from her brother's side of the family for the varient spelling of the last
> name.
>
> Her married name was Golden. Source 1910 US census and her daughter's birth
> certificates for her husband's last name.  Alternate married name of Goldin,
> source 1920 US census.
>
> Peter
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Benny Malengier <[hidden email]>
> To: Ralph Spilsport <[hidden email]>
> Cc: "[hidden email]"
> <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 3:42 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] Names: Three newbie questions
>
> 2012/1/22 Ralph Spilsport <[hidden email]>:
>> Dear Benny,
>>
>> Many thanks. Much appreciated. One thing:
>>
>> It seems that I have to enter a full name, given names and surnames, for
>> married name? I can't just enter a married surname and rely on Gramps to
>> assume that if the given name is left blank it is the same as the birth
>> name
>> given name. Or so it seems to me. Am I right about this?
>
> Yes, that is why I mentioned the clipboard to copy a frame of the name.
>
> Benny
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> Ralph
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Benny Malengier <[hidden email]>
>> To: Ralph Spilsport <[hidden email]>
>> Cc: "[hidden email]"
>> <[hidden email]>
>> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 12:58 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] Names: Three newbie questions
>>
>> 2012/1/21 Ralph Spilsport <[hidden email]>:
>>> Folks,
>>>
>>> I am running Gramps 3.3.1 (AIO v. 2) on Windows Vista. I am completely
>>> new
>>> to Gramps.
>>>
>>> Three questions re names. Very newbie, and perhaps covered in the
>>> documentation, but I couldn't find answers there.
>>>
>>> 1. Given names: How do I enter variants of given names? For example, one
>>> set
>>> of variations could be: Frank (primary variant), Frenk and Franz
>>> (additional, less frequent spellings). Is there a way to choose a name
>>> Type
>>> of "Also Known As" and have it refer to a Given Name? I don't see a way
>>> to
>>> do this.
>>
>> In the person view, in the tab pages, you see 'Alternative Names'. You
>> should give variants there as new names, which are alternative names.
>> The top part of the person editor, shows the name which is the default
>> name. Right clicking on an alternative name, allows you to swap it
>> with the default name.
>>
>> Make sure your name type is something that is correct. I mean here, a
>> birth name is the one on a birth certificate, a married name the one
>> taken after marriage, ...
>> Don't make mistakes there, and add sources to the alternative names
>> via the name editor, or you will not remember where you found the
>> variant.
>>
>>>
>>> 2. Same question regarding surnames.For example, Smith (primary variant)
>>> and
>>> Psmith (the "p" is silent).
>>
>> See above. When you search on a name, the alternative names are also
>> searched.
>>
>>>
>>> 3. Similar question regarding married and maiden names.Here's why I ask.
>>> When go to the People view and double click on a name, the name window
>>> opens. Assume the person whose name has been clicked is a married woman
>>> who
>>> uses her husband's surname as well as her own maiden name in the
>>> traditional
>>> Given name, Maiden name, Husband's surname order.
>>>
>>> The window shows Type: Birth name. Presumably this refers not to the
>>> Given
>>> name, but to surnames. I have entered two different surnames, one the
>>> maiden
>>> name, one the husband's family name. I have selected the husband's
>>> surname
>>> as the primary surname. The window's title gives the correct ordering:
>>> maiden name husband's surname, given name. But when I select the
>>> husband's
>>> surname and then change the type to married name and then select the
>>> maiden
>>> name, the type does not change to birth name, but remains as married
>>> name.
>>
>> Yes, so one name is one name type, via alternative names you enter
>> extra names. You can use the clipboard to copy paste the equal parts.
>>
>> See documentation on alternative names.
>>
>> Benny
>>
>>> The same happens if I try this the other way: selecting the maiden name
>>> first, changing type to birth name and then selecting the husband's
>>> surname.
>>> In this case, the type remains birth name after the husband's surname is
>>> selected.
>>>
>>> So what is Type all about? And how to I specify birth and married names?
>>> The
>>> way I have in fact entered them seems right to me: maiden name as one
>>> entry
>>> and husband's surname as another. But I suppose it could be maiden name
>>> as
>>> one entry and maiden name and husband's surname as another.
>>>
>>> Thanks for any help you can give.
>>>
>>> Ralph
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Try before you buy = See our experts in action!
>>> The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers
>>> is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3,
>>> Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now!
>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Gramps-users mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
>>>
>>
>>
>
>



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Re: Names: Three newbie questions

Benny Malengier
2012/1/22 Ralph Spilsport <[hidden email]>:
> I had already selected several different Preferred Names with no change to
> the cartouche label no matter whether I stayed with a new Preferred Name or
> returned to the original Preferred Name. Sorry for not mentioning that. What
> did work was shutting Gramps down and restarting it. All is now well, thanks
> very much.

Ok, this means there is a bug that a signal of person change is not
updating the field.
If you could submit a bug ticket for that, that would be great.

Benny

>
> Thanks also for the advice re multiple names. Unfortunately, they are indeed
> all attested. Movement across borders and phonetic spelling/illiteracy.
>
> Your help, and the speed with which it is delivered, is deeply appreciated.
>
> ________________________________
> From: Benny Malengier <[hidden email]>
> To: Ralph Spilsport <[hidden email]>
> Cc: "[hidden email]"
> <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 6:30 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] Names: Three newbie questions
>
> 2012/1/22 Ralph Spilsport <[hidden email]>:
>> What I hope is a final question:
>>
>> I've taken the advice below and fixed up my name entries for Frank Smith.
>> I
>> now have 6 entries, the total number of combinations of
>> [Frank/Frenk/Franz]
>> as given name and [Smith/Psmith] as surname. All well and good. Mostly.
>>
>> When I click on the Ancestry category and then on the entry there for
>> Frank
>> Smith. all looks well with the Preferred name and the Alternative names.
>> Same for the upper left hand corner where, under Preferred Name, Smith,
>> Frank appears. The name of the window is also fine: Person: Smith, Frank.
>>
>> The problem arises when I okay out of the editing windows. The Ancestry
>> category shows, for lack of a better word, a cartouche that refers to
>> Frank
>> Smith. The problem is that the name shown in the cartouche is "Smith
>> Psmith,
>> Frank [Frenk?][ Franz?]", apparently a holdover from when I entered data
>> incorrectly for both given and surnames.
>
> Hmm, There must be a name like that somewhere in the list I think,
> which you should delete.
> Name format is set in the Preferences, and takes the default name to
> determine how to show the name.  So it should be the default name that
> causes it. Switch the default name for one of the alternate names
> (right click on alternate name), click save,  and investigate how the
> name formatting changes, and how that name looks in the name editor.
> If a gramplet shows the old name, perhaps there is a caching problem?
> A restart should show you if that is the case (so after restart all is
> ok)
> Let us know if you can make sense of it. If problems, send a
> screenshot of what you see and make clear what you expect
>
> About your many names, if there is no source for it, you should not
> add a combination.
> For an informal name of a person, you can use the nickname field also.
>
> Benny
>>
>> Is there anyway to fix this short of deleting the person and starting
>> over,
>> which I really don't want to do or perhaps creating another person with
>> the
>> right preferred name and then merging it with the existing person?
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> Ralph
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Peter G <[hidden email]>
>> To: "[hidden email]"
>> <[hidden email]>
>> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 2:54 PM
>>
>> Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] Names: Three newbie questions
>>
>> As an example,
>> My great mother was Rose Tatelbaum. That's the birth name, with a source
>> of
>> her three daughter's birth certificates. Alternate birth name Rose
>> Tatlebaum, source her brother's marriage certificate and all other records
>> from her brother's side of the family for the varient spelling of the last
>> name.
>>
>> Her married name was Golden. Source 1910 US census and her daughter's
>> birth
>> certificates for her husband's last name.  Alternate married name of
>> Goldin,
>> source 1920 US census.
>>
>> Peter
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Benny Malengier <[hidden email]>
>> To: Ralph Spilsport <[hidden email]>
>> Cc: "[hidden email]"
>> <[hidden email]>
>> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 3:42 PM
>>
>> Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] Names: Three newbie questions
>>
>> 2012/1/22 Ralph Spilsport <[hidden email]>:
>>> Dear Benny,
>>>
>>> Many thanks. Much appreciated. One thing:
>>>
>>> It seems that I have to enter a full name, given names and surnames, for
>>> married name? I can't just enter a married surname and rely on Gramps to
>>> assume that if the given name is left blank it is the same as the birth
>>> name
>>> given name. Or so it seems to me. Am I right about this?
>>
>> Yes, that is why I mentioned the clipboard to copy a frame of the name.
>>
>> Benny
>>>
>>> All the best,
>>>
>>> Ralph
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Benny Malengier <[hidden email]>
>>> To: Ralph Spilsport <[hidden email]>
>>> Cc: "[hidden email]"
>>> <[hidden email]>
>>> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 12:58 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] Names: Three newbie questions
>>>
>>> 2012/1/21 Ralph Spilsport <[hidden email]>:
>>>> Folks,
>>>>
>>>> I am running Gramps 3.3.1 (AIO v. 2) on Windows Vista. I am completely
>>>> new
>>>> to Gramps.
>>>>
>>>> Three questions re names. Very newbie, and perhaps covered in the
>>>> documentation, but I couldn't find answers there.
>>>>
>>>> 1. Given names: How do I enter variants of given names? For example, one
>>>> set
>>>> of variations could be: Frank (primary variant), Frenk and Franz
>>>> (additional, less frequent spellings). Is there a way to choose a name
>>>> Type
>>>> of "Also Known As" and have it refer to a Given Name? I don't see a way
>>>> to
>>>> do this.
>>>
>>> In the person view, in the tab pages, you see 'Alternative Names'. You
>>> should give variants there as new names, which are alternative names.
>>> The top part of the person editor, shows the name which is the default
>>> name. Right clicking on an alternative name, allows you to swap it
>>> with the default name.
>>>
>>> Make sure your name type is something that is correct. I mean here, a
>>> birth name is the one on a birth certificate, a married name the one
>>> taken after marriage, ...
>>> Don't make mistakes there, and add sources to the alternative names
>>> via the name editor, or you will not remember where you found the
>>> variant.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2. Same question regarding surnames.For example, Smith (primary variant)
>>>> and
>>>> Psmith (the "p" is silent).
>>>
>>> See above. When you search on a name, the alternative names are also
>>> searched.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> 3. Similar question regarding married and maiden names.Here's why I ask.
>>>> When go to the People view and double click on a name, the name window
>>>> opens. Assume the person whose name has been clicked is a married woman
>>>> who
>>>> uses her husband's surname as well as her own maiden name in the
>>>> traditional
>>>> Given name, Maiden name, Husband's surname order.
>>>>
>>>> The window shows Type: Birth name. Presumably this refers not to the
>>>> Given
>>>> name, but to surnames. I have entered two different surnames, one the
>>>> maiden
>>>> name, one the husband's family name. I have selected the husband's
>>>> surname
>>>> as the primary surname. The window's title gives the correct ordering:
>>>> maiden name husband's surname, given name. But when I select the
>>>> husband's
>>>> surname and then change the type to married name and then select the
>>>> maiden
>>>> name, the type does not change to birth name, but remains as married
>>>> name.
>>>
>>> Yes, so one name is one name type, via alternative names you enter
>>> extra names. You can use the clipboard to copy paste the equal parts.
>>>
>>> See documentation on alternative names.
>>>
>>> Benny
>>>
>>>> The same happens if I try this the other way: selecting the maiden name
>>>> first, changing type to birth name and then selecting the husband's
>>>> surname.
>>>> In this case, the type remains birth name after the husband's surname is
>>>> selected.
>>>>
>>>> So what is Type all about? And how to I specify birth and married names?
>>>> The
>>>> way I have in fact entered them seems right to me: maiden name as one
>>>> entry
>>>> and husband's surname as another. But I suppose it could be maiden name
>>>> as
>>>> one entry and maiden name and husband's surname as another.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for any help you can give.
>>>>
>>>> Ralph
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Try before you buy = See our experts in action!
>>>> The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers
>>>> is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3,
>>>> Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now!
>>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Gramps-users mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

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Event Locations: One newbie question

Ralph Spilsport
In reply to this post by Benny Malengier
Folks,

I am entering a birth for which I have a date, but for which my source is uncertain of the name of the town in which the birth occurred. My source tells me that there are two possibilities.

When go to enter a location for the birth, I have no problem selecting a Place from a list of previously entered Places.  I click the paper with hand with extended index finger icon, this brings me to the list of Places, and I choose one. No problem there. But when I try to add an Alternate Locations Gramps allows  me to enter a new location (+ symbol), but does not allow me to select from previously entered Places (
paper with hand with extended index finger not present). Further, a new location entered in this dialogue does not show up in the Places category.

If this is how Gramps is supposed to behave, I would suggest modifying it to permit Alternate Locations for Events to be selected from existing Places and to automatically add newly input Alternate Locations to the Places list.

Otherwise, what I am doing wrong?

Thanks,

Ralph

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Re: Event Locations: One newbie question

Gerald Britton-2
You're partly right.  The "+" icon for places is used to add a new
place, so naturally there is no dropdown to select an existing place.
OTOH the pointing finger is for selecting an existing place, so
naturally it does not lead to a dialog to add a new place.

This is a basic M.O. in gramps.

On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 1:46 PM, Ralph Spilsport <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Folks,
>
> I am entering a birth for which I have a date, but for which my source is
> uncertain of the name of the town in which the birth occurred. My source
> tells me that there are two possibilities.
>
> When go to enter a location for the birth, I have no problem selecting a
> Place from a list of previously entered Places.  I click the paper with hand
> with extended index finger icon, this brings me to the list of Places, and I
> choose one. No problem there. But when I try to add an Alternate Locations
> Gramps allows  me to enter a new location (+ symbol), but does not allow me
> to select from previously entered Places (paper with hand with extended
> index finger not present). Further, a new location entered in this dialogue
> does not show up in the Places category.
>
> If this is how Gramps is supposed to behave, I would suggest modifying it to
> permit Alternate Locations for Events to be selected from existing Places
> and to automatically add newly input Alternate Locations to the Places list.
>
> Otherwise, what I am doing wrong?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ralph
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Try before you buy = See our experts in action!
> The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers
> is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3,
> Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now!
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> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
>



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Re: Event Locations: One newbie question

Ralph Spilsport
Understood. And that works fine for the Location tab. But there appears to be no way to get a dropdown list of existing Places from the Alternate Location tab. The only icon is the "+" icon. There is no pointing finger icon available at the Alternate Location tab.


From: Gerald Britton <[hidden email]>
To: Ralph Spilsport <[hidden email]>
Cc: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 8:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] Event Locations: One newbie question

You're partly right.  The "+" icon for places is used to add a new
place, so naturally there is no dropdown to select an existing place.
OTOH the pointing finger is for selecting an existing place, so
naturally it does not lead to a dialog to add a new place.

This is a basic M.O. in gramps.

On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 1:46 PM, Ralph Spilsport <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Folks,
>
> I am entering a birth for which I have a date, but for which my source is
> uncertain of the name of the town in which the birth occurred. My source
> tells me that there are two possibilities.
>
> When go to enter a location for the birth, I have no problem selecting a
> Place from a list of previously entered Places.  I click the paper with hand
> with extended index finger icon, this brings me to the list of Places, and I
> choose one. No problem there. But when I try to add an Alternate Locations
> Gramps allows  me to enter a new location (+ symbol), but does not allow me
> to select from previously entered Places (paper with hand with extended
> index finger not present). Further, a new location entered in this dialogue
> does not show up in the Places category.
>
> If this is how Gramps is supposed to behave, I would suggest modifying it to
> permit Alternate Locations for Events to be selected from existing Places
> and to automatically add newly input Alternate Locations to the Places list.
>
> Otherwise, what I am doing wrong?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ralph
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Try before you buy = See our experts in action!
> The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers
> is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3,
> Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now!
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
>



--
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Re: Event Locations: One newbie question

Gerald Britton-2
Ah yes, well the Alternate Locations tab is a way to specify that a
given place has (or has had) more than one geo-politlcal location.
e.g. some parts of Poland before WWII are now in Germany.  Go farther
back in history and the problem gets worse.  Jerusalem is in modern
Israel if you ask the Israelis and in occupied Palestine if you ask
the Palestinians.  Who is correct?  Well that's a political hot potato
that I don't want.  However, in gramps, you could choose one to be the
primary location and the other to be the alternate.  But then, there
has been some sort of settlement on the same site as Jerusalem since
pre-history.  You might have to include Salem, Canaan as an alternate
location together with British Palestine, a province of Babylon and
many many others.

Basically, it doesn't make sense to be able to select a different
location for an alternate location.

On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 2:07 PM, Ralph Spilsport <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Understood. And that works fine for the Location tab. But there appears to
> be no way to get a dropdown list of existing Places from the Alternate
> Location tab. The only icon is the "+" icon. There is no pointing finger
> icon available at the Alternate Location tab.
>
> ________________________________
> From: Gerald Britton <[hidden email]>
> To: Ralph Spilsport <[hidden email]>
> Cc: "[hidden email]"
> <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 8:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] Event Locations: One newbie question
>
> You're partly right.  The "+" icon for places is used to add a new
> place, so naturally there is no dropdown to select an existing place.
> OTOH the pointing finger is for selecting an existing place, so
> naturally it does not lead to a dialog to add a new place.
>
> This is a basic M.O. in gramps.
>
> On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 1:46 PM, Ralph Spilsport <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>> Folks,
>>
>> I am entering a birth for which I have a date, but for which my source is
>> uncertain of the name of the town in which the birth occurred. My source
>> tells me that there are two possibilities.
>>
>> When go to enter a location for the birth, I have no problem selecting a
>> Place from a list of previously entered Places.  I click the paper with
>> hand
>> with extended index finger icon, this brings me to the list of Places, and
>> I
>> choose one. No problem there. But when I try to add an Alternate Locations
>> Gramps allows  me to enter a new location (+ symbol), but does not allow
>> me
>> to select from previously entered Places (paper with hand with extended
>> index finger not present). Further, a new location entered in this
>> dialogue
>> does not show up in the Places category.
>>
>> If this is how Gramps is supposed to behave, I would suggest modifying it
>> to
>> permit Alternate Locations for Events to be selected from existing Places
>> and to automatically add newly input Alternate Locations to the Places
>> list.
>>
>> Otherwise, what I am doing wrong?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Ralph
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Try before you buy = See our experts in action!
>> The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers
>> is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3,
>> Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now!
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gramps-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Gerald Britton
>
>



--
Gerald Britton

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3,
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Re: Event Locations: One newbie question

Ralph Spilsport
Understood re multiple place names. Different times, different nations, different languages. Leningrad/St. Petersburg. Gdansk/Danzig. And I agree that this type issue is best handled the way Gramps now handles things.

But my problem is different. My source doesn't know whether the person was born, let's say, in Boulder or Denver. I.e., two nearby, but different towns. Not the same town known by different names.


From: Gerald Britton <[hidden email]>
To: Ralph Spilsport <[hidden email]>
Cc: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 8:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] Event Locations: One newbie question

Ah yes, well the Alternate Locations tab is a way to specify that a
given place has (or has had) more than one geo-politlcal location.
e.g. some parts of Poland before WWII are now in Germany.  Go farther
back in history and the problem gets worse.  Jerusalem is in modern
Israel if you ask the Israelis and in occupied Palestine if you ask
the Palestinians.  Who is correct?  Well that's a political hot potato
that I don't want.  However, in gramps, you could choose one to be the
primary location and the other to be the alternate.  But then, there
has been some sort of settlement on the same site as Jerusalem since
pre-history.  You might have to include Salem, Canaan as an alternate
location together with British Palestine, a province of Babylon and
many many others.

Basically, it doesn't make sense to be able to select a different
location for an alternate location.

On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 2:07 PM, Ralph Spilsport <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Understood. And that works fine for the Location tab. But there appears to
> be no way to get a dropdown list of existing Places from the Alternate
> Location tab. The only icon is the "+" icon. There is no pointing finger
> icon available at the Alternate Location tab.
>
> ________________________________
> From: Gerald Britton <[hidden email]>
> To: Ralph Spilsport <[hidden email]>
> Cc: "[hidden email]"
> <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 8:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] Event Locations: One newbie question
>
> You're partly right.  The "+" icon for places is used to add a new
> place, so naturally there is no dropdown to select an existing place.
> OTOH the pointing finger is for selecting an existing place, so
> naturally it does not lead to a dialog to add a new place.
>
> This is a basic M.O. in gramps.
>
> On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 1:46 PM, Ralph Spilsport <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>> Folks,
>>
>> I am entering a birth for which I have a date, but for which my source is
>> uncertain of the name of the town in which the birth occurred. My source
>> tells me that there are two possibilities.
>>
>> When go to enter a location for the birth, I have no problem selecting a
>> Place from a list of previously entered Places.  I click the paper with
>> hand
>> with extended index finger icon, this brings me to the list of Places, and
>> I
>> choose one. No problem there. But when I try to add an Alternate Locations
>> Gramps allows  me to enter a new location (+ symbol), but does not allow
>> me
>> to select from previously entered Places (paper with hand with extended
>> index finger not present). Further, a new location entered in this
>> dialogue
>> does not show up in the Places category.
>>
>> If this is how Gramps is supposed to behave, I would suggest modifying it
>> to
>> permit Alternate Locations for Events to be selected from existing Places
>> and to automatically add newly input Alternate Locations to the Places
>> list.
>>
>> Otherwise, what I am doing wrong?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Ralph
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Try before you buy = See our experts in action!
>> The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers
>> is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3,
>> Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now!
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gramps-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Gerald Britton
>
>



--
Gerald Britton



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3,
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Re: Event Locations: One newbie question

Gerald Britton-2
Oh, in your case, I'd just say Colorado, then add a note about the
uncertainty until you can clear it up (with official docs, if
possible)

On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 2:52 PM, Ralph Spilsport <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Understood re multiple place names. Different times, different nations,
> different languages. Leningrad/St. Petersburg. Gdansk/Danzig. And I agree
> that this type issue is best handled the way Gramps now handles things.
>
> But my problem is different. My source doesn't know whether the person was
> born, let's say, in Boulder or Denver. I.e., two nearby, but different
> towns. Not the same town known by different names.
>
> ________________________________
> From: Gerald Britton <[hidden email]>
> To: Ralph Spilsport <[hidden email]>
> Cc: "[hidden email]"
> <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 8:19 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] Event Locations: One newbie question
>
> Ah yes, well the Alternate Locations tab is a way to specify that a
> given place has (or has had) more than one geo-politlcal location.
> e.g. some parts of Poland before WWII are now in Germany.  Go farther
> back in history and the problem gets worse.  Jerusalem is in modern
> Israel if you ask the Israelis and in occupied Palestine if you ask
> the Palestinians.  Who is correct?  Well that's a political hot potato
> that I don't want.  However, in gramps, you could choose one to be the
> primary location and the other to be the alternate.  But then, there
> has been some sort of settlement on the same site as Jerusalem since
> pre-history.  You might have to include Salem, Canaan as an alternate
> location together with British Palestine, a province of Babylon and
> many many others.
>
> Basically, it doesn't make sense to be able to select a different
> location for an alternate location.
>
> On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 2:07 PM, Ralph Spilsport <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>> Understood. And that works fine for the Location tab. But there appears to
>> be no way to get a dropdown list of existing Places from the Alternate
>> Location tab. The only icon is the "+" icon. There is no pointing finger
>> icon available at the Alternate Location tab.
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Gerald Britton <[hidden email]>
>> To: Ralph Spilsport <[hidden email]>
>> Cc: "[hidden email]"
>> <[hidden email]>
>> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 8:02 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] Event Locations: One newbie question
>>
>> You're partly right.  The "+" icon for places is used to add a new
>> place, so naturally there is no dropdown to select an existing place.
>> OTOH the pointing finger is for selecting an existing place, so
>> naturally it does not lead to a dialog to add a new place.
>>
>> This is a basic M.O. in gramps.
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 1:46 PM, Ralph Spilsport <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>> Folks,
>>>
>>> I am entering a birth for which I have a date, but for which my source is
>>> uncertain of the name of the town in which the birth occurred. My source
>>> tells me that there are two possibilities.
>>>
>>> When go to enter a location for the birth, I have no problem selecting a
>>> Place from a list of previously entered Places.  I click the paper with
>>> hand
>>> with extended index finger icon, this brings me to the list of Places,
>>> and
>>> I
>>> choose one. No problem there. But when I try to add an Alternate
>>> Locations
>>> Gramps allows  me to enter a new location (+ symbol), but does not allow
>>> me
>>> to select from previously entered Places (paper with hand with extended
>>> index finger not present). Further, a new location entered in this
>>> dialogue
>>> does not show up in the Places category.
>>>
>>> If this is how Gramps is supposed to behave, I would suggest modifying it
>>> to
>>> permit Alternate Locations for Events to be selected from existing Places
>>> and to automatically add newly input Alternate Locations to the Places
>>> list.
>>>
>>> Otherwise, what I am doing wrong?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Ralph
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Try before you buy = See our experts in action!
>>> The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers
>>> is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3,
>>> Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now!
>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Gramps-users mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Gerald Britton
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Gerald Britton
>
>



--
Gerald Britton

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Event Locations: One newbie question

Ralph Spilsport
That's what I'll do. Thanks.


From: Gerald Britton <[hidden email]>
To: Ralph Spilsport <[hidden email]>
Cc: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 9:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] Event Locations: One newbie question

Oh, in your case, I'd just say Colorado, then add a note about the
uncertainty until you can clear it up (with official docs, if
possible)

On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 2:52 PM, Ralph Spilsport <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Understood re multiple place names. Different times, different nations,
> different languages. Leningrad/St. Petersburg. Gdansk/Danzig. And I agree
> that this type issue is best handled the way Gramps now handles things.
>
> But my problem is different. My source doesn't know whether the person was
> born, let's say, in Boulder or Denver. I.e., two nearby, but different
> towns. Not the same town known by different names.
>
> ________________________________
> From: Gerald Britton <[hidden email]>
> To: Ralph Spilsport <[hidden email]>
> Cc: "[hidden email]"
> <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 8:19 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] Event Locations: One newbie question
>
> Ah yes, well the Alternate Locations tab is a way to specify that a
> given place has (or has had) more than one geo-politlcal location.
> e.g. some parts of Poland before WWII are now in Germany.  Go farther
> back in history and the problem gets worse.  Jerusalem is in modern
> Israel if you ask the Israelis and in occupied Palestine if you ask
> the Palestinians.  Who is correct?  Well that's a political hot potato
> that I don't want.  However, in gramps, you could choose one to be the
> primary location and the other to be the alternate.  But then, there
> has been some sort of settlement on the same site as Jerusalem since
> pre-history.  You might have to include Salem, Canaan as an alternate
> location together with British Palestine, a province of Babylon and
> many many others.
>
> Basically, it doesn't make sense to be able to select a different
> location for an alternate location.
>
> On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 2:07 PM, Ralph Spilsport <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>> Understood. And that works fine for the Location tab. But there appears to
>> be no way to get a dropdown list of existing Places from the Alternate
>> Location tab. The only icon is the "+" icon. There is no pointing finger
>> icon available at the Alternate Location tab.
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Gerald Britton <[hidden email]>
>> To: Ralph Spilsport <[hidden email]>
>> Cc: "[hidden email]"
>> <[hidden email]>
>> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 8:02 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] Event Locations: One newbie question
>>
>> You're partly right.  The "+" icon for places is used to add a new
>> place, so naturally there is no dropdown to select an existing place.
>> OTOH the pointing finger is for selecting an existing place, so
>> naturally it does not lead to a dialog to add a new place.
>>
>> This is a basic M.O. in gramps.
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 1:46 PM, Ralph Spilsport <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>> Folks,
>>>
>>> I am entering a birth for which I have a date, but for which my source is
>>> uncertain of the name of the town in which the birth occurred. My source
>>> tells me that there are two possibilities.
>>>
>>> When go to enter a location for the birth, I have no problem selecting a
>>> Place from a list of previously entered Places.  I click the paper with
>>> hand
>>> with extended index finger icon, this brings me to the list of Places,
>>> and
>>> I
>>> choose one. No problem there. But when I try to add an Alternate
>>> Locations
>>> Gramps allows  me to enter a new location (+ symbol), but does not allow
>>> me
>>> to select from previously entered Places (paper with hand with extended
>>> index finger not present). Further, a new location entered in this
>>> dialogue
>>> does not show up in the Places category.
>>>
>>> If this is how Gramps is supposed to behave, I would suggest modifying it
>>> to
>>> permit Alternate Locations for Events to be selected from existing Places
>>> and to automatically add newly input Alternate Locations to the Places
>>> list.
>>>
>>> Otherwise, what I am doing wrong?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Ralph
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Try before you buy = See our experts in action!
>>> The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers
>>> is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3,
>>> Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now!
>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Gramps-users mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Gerald Britton
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Gerald Britton
>
>



--
Gerald Britton



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3,
Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now!
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Re: Event Locations: One newbie question

Helge@Gramps
In reply to this post by Gerald Britton-2
Hi all,

I do the same today: using notices for special location information as multiple choices and/or already checked non-choices.
But nevertheless it seems to me not to be a complete solution because if I use filters or reports I always catch ONE location and may be the hint (by a note - my be there also other notes...) about a second or a third location or what ever.
During all interactive work it's more than difficult to see, that a location has a low confidence level or bad quality of data.

That's why for the moment I use an additional way to sign (I won't use the word 'mark' because there are mark properties for some objects) at least events if they have non or lower confidence level / quality of data for the location and/or for the date by putting special character into the event ID:
+ '#L' means --> location to be checked
+ in the same way '#D' signs the date property if necessary (all possible date classifications doesn't tell about the confidence / quality of data)
+ and of course: '#LD' signs both.
To be complete I use within the event ID:
+ '@' to sign an event verified by the original document (e.g. birth event by the birth entry of a church book)
+ '€' to sign an event indirect verified by an official document (e.g. birth event by the marriage or death document) because in some case I did found differences between the first an the later documents
(For event IDs one may use any other character instead expect 'E' or '0' to '9')
May goal: To have as much as possible events having a '@'-ID or at least a '€'-ID. If so, I have verified and well documented events.

May be it's not the best way to that. But for the moment it's helpful for me, because in Gramps it's always possible to see and print IDs. And the user has the full access to the ID with a few restrictions only:
+ no double ID (I never tried to use the same ID for several object types because it seems to be senseless for me)
+ no empty ID

-Helge
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Re: Event Locations: One newbie question

Ralph Spilsport

Hi Helga,

Thanks for sharing your idea. I do think that Notes have their limitations as a way of identifying alternatives or quality issues in, among other information, Location data, and your method provides a potentially quite useful workaround. 

Ralph

From: "Helge@Gramps" <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] Event Locations: One newbie question

Hi all,

I do the same today: using notices for special location information as
multiple choices and/or already checked non-choices.
But nevertheless it seems to me not to be a complete solution because if I
use filters or reports I always catch ONE location and may be the hint (by a
note - my be there also other notes...) about a second or a third location
or what ever.
During all interactive work it's more than difficult to see, that a location
has a low confidence level or bad quality of data.

That's why for the moment I use an additional way to sign (I won't use the
word 'mark' because there are mark properties for some objects) at least
events if they have non or lower confidence level / quality of data for the
location and/or for the date by putting special character into the event ID:
+ '#L' means --> location to be checked
+ in the same way '#D' signs the date property if necessary (all possible
date classifications doesn't tell about the confidence / quality of data)
+ and of course: '#LD' signs both.
To be complete I use within the event ID:
+ '@' to sign an event verified by the original document (e.g. birth event
by the birth entry of a church book)
+ '€' to sign an event indirect verified by an official document (e.g. birth
event by the marriage or death document) because in some case I did found
differences between the first an the later documents
(For event IDs one may use any other character instead expect 'E' or '0' to
'9')
May goal: To have as much as possible events having a '@'-ID or at least a
'€'-ID. If so, I have verified and well documented events.

May be it's not the best way to that. But for the moment it's helpful for
me, because in Gramps it's always possible to see and print IDs. And the
user has the full access to the ID with a few restrictions only:
+ no double ID (I never tried to use the same ID for several object types
because it seems to be senseless for me)
+ no empty ID

-Helge

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Re: Event Locations: One newbie question

Gerald Britton-2
Reviewing this thread again, it occurs to me that there may be a
misunderstanding about alternate locations for places.  To put it
briefly: Alternate locations are used to capture different
geopolitical data for a place.  e.g.  Toronto, where I live, has had
many names, including Tkaronto (a Mohawk name meaning "where there are
trees standing in the water"), Giyando (a Seneca name)  and York (from
the early English settlement).  These are alternate locations for the
same geographical place on the north shore of Lake Ontario.

However, alternate locations are NOT to be used for events where there
actual place is in doubt.  Imagine for a second that you had a
marriage that may have taken place in New York or New Jersey.  You
enter the event data and create a place, "New York" with alternate
location "New Jersey".  Now, the next time you have an event that
defintely took place in New York, you look up the place using the hand
icon and find the place that you created.  You select it, but it still
contains the alternate (and incorrect!) location "New Jersey".

In addition to the other suggestions in this thread, it is possible to
create a place called "John and Mary's wedding place" and use the
alternate locations tab to capture the various possibilities.
However, I would submit that that would be twisting the purpose of
Places.  In any case, you DO need to flag it somehow so that it can be
corrected when you learn the true place of the event.

On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 2:28 AM, Ralph Spilsport <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Hi Helga,
>
> Thanks for sharing your idea. I do think that Notes have their limitations
> as a way of identifying alternatives or quality issues in, among other
> information, Location data, and your method provides a potentially quite
> useful workaround.
>
> Ralph
> ________________________________
> From: "Helge@Gramps" <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 6:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] Event Locations: One newbie question
>
> Hi all,
>
> I do the same today: using notices for special location information as
> multiple choices and/or already checked non-choices.
> But nevertheless it seems to me not to be a complete solution because if I
> use filters or reports I always catch ONE location and may be the hint (by a
> note - my be there also other notes...) about a second or a third location
> or what ever.
> During all interactive work it's more than difficult to see, that a location
> has a low confidence level or bad quality of data.
>
> That's why for the moment I use an additional way to sign (I won't use the
> word 'mark' because there are mark properties for some objects) at least
> events if they have non or lower confidence level / quality of data for the
> location and/or for the date by putting special character into the event ID:
> + '#L' means --> location to be checked
> + in the same way '#D' signs the date property if necessary (all possible
> date classifications doesn't tell about the confidence / quality of data)
> + and of course: '#LD' signs both.
> To be complete I use within the event ID:
> + '@' to sign an event verified by the original document (e.g. birth event
> by the birth entry of a church book)
> + '€' to sign an event indirect verified by an official document (e.g. birth
> event by the marriage or death document) because in some case I did found
> differences between the first an the later documents
> (For event IDs one may use any other character instead expect 'E' or '0' to
> '9')
> May goal: To have as much as possible events having a '@'-ID or at least a
> '€'-ID. If so, I have verified and well documented events.
>
> May be it's not the best way to that. But for the moment it's helpful for
> me, because in Gramps it's always possible to see and print IDs. And the
> user has the full access to the ID with a few restrictions only:
> + no double ID (I never tried to use the same ID for several object types
> because it seems to be senseless for me)
> + no empty ID
>
> -Helge
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://gramps.1791082.n4.nabble.com/Names-Three-newbie-questions-tp4316811p4321362.html
> Sent from the GRAMPS - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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--
Gerald Britton

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