No children, unmarried, ...

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No children, unmarried, ...

Per Starbäck
I wonder how I best note some negative information. For example that a
(dead) person was never married, or had no children.

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Re: No children, unmarried, ...

John W. Kitz-3
Per,

At the risk of stating the obvious...

On 2017-12-06 08:05, Per Starbäck wrote:
> I wonder how I best note some negative information.

For the individual to whom it pertains your findings don't necessarily
have to have been negative.

> For example that a
> (dead) person was never married, or had no children.

Your example only applies to those that lived during those years that
they could have conceived children, i.e. the word '(dead)' preceding the
word 'person' serves little if any purpose. For the remainder of your
question I'd say you're stating the impossible, i.e. if there hasn't
been a marriage and/or birth there are no birth or marriage events to
enter for the person, nor is there any information to base such or nay
other events on.

Regards, Jk.

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Re: No children, unmarried, ...

Brad Rogers
In reply to this post by Per Starbäck
On Wed, 6 Dec 2017 08:05:56 +0100
Per Starbäck <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello Per,

>I wonder how I best note some negative information. For example that a
>(dead) person was never married, or had no children.

There's an Attribute "Number of Children" - set to Zero.  
You could create a custom Attribute named Marital Status (or some such).
A Note, or Notes, also work.

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Leave Me Alone (I'm Lonely) - P!nk

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Re: No children, unmarried, ...

Nick Hall
On 06/12/17 11:05, Brad Rogers wrote:
> There's an Attribute "Number of Children" - set to Zero.

Yes.  The fertility section on a census (e.g. the England 1911 census)
could provide such information, but remember that people don't always
tell the truth on census returns.

Nick.



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Re: No children, unmarried, ...

Per Starbäck
In reply to this post by John W. Kitz-3
>> I wonder how I best note some negative information.
>
>
> For the individual to whom it pertains your findings don't necessarily have
> to have been negative.

With "negative information" I mean information that something *isn't*
the case. It has nothing to do with whether that is something good or
bad. I thought that would be clear from the context and the examples,
but maybe I should have have been more elaborate.

If I have five siblings somewhere in my tree with just birth years and
death years it's a big difference if I just haven't tried to find data
on one of them yet, but for another I know that there are none.

> For the remainder of your question
> I'd say you're stating the impossible, i.e. if there hasn't been a marriage
> and/or birth there are no birth or marriage events to enter for the person,
> nor is there any information to base such or nay other events on.

Yes, that is exactly the problem -- I don't know any natural place to
state this information, since it is about the *lack* of events. Still
it's very common to state in a summary of a genealogical line, for
example "died unmarried". Of course I could make a note or a tag, but
since this probably is something several people have thought about I
would like to hear how other people do it.

>> For example that a
>> (dead) person was never married, or had no children.
> Your example only applies to those that lived during those years that they
> could have conceived children, i.e. the word '(dead)' preceding the word
> 'person' serves little if any purpose.

That word is there to show that I am not looking for a more
complicated solution that needs to have a timestamp for when this was
true.

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Re: No children, unmarried, ...

Per Starbäck
In reply to this post by Brad Rogers
2017-12-06 12:05 GMT+01:00 Brad Rogers <[hidden email]>:
> There's an Attribute "Number of Children" - set to Zero.

Thanks! I hadn't seen that!

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Re: No children, unmarried, ...

John W. Kitz-3
In reply to this post by Per Starbäck
Per,

On 2017-12-06 12:15, Per Starbäck wrote:

>>> I wonder how I best note some negative information.
>>
>>
>> For the individual to whom it pertains your findings don't necessarily
>> have
>> to have been negative.
>
> With "negative information" I mean information that something *isn't*
> the case. It has nothing to do with whether that is something good or
> bad. I thought that would be clear from the context and the examples,
> but maybe I should have have been more elaborate.

It may have been to others, but apparently it wasn't to me, my bad.

> If I have five siblings somewhere in my tree with just birth years and
> death years it's a big difference if I just haven't tried to find data
> on one of them yet, but for another I know that there are none.
>
>> For the remainder of your question
>> I'd say you're stating the impossible, i.e. if there hasn't been a
>> marriage
>> and/or birth there are no birth or marriage events to enter for the
>> person,
>> nor is there any information to base such or nay other events on.
>
> Yes, that is exactly the problem -- I don't know any natural place to
> state this information, since it is about the *lack* of events.

At this time I don't see that as a problem, but given your further
remarks I could see it may be useful to record the absence of
information to indicate that one has done the research, but the research
itself didn't turn up anything as opposed to entering nothing, which at
a later point in time, looking at the data, could raise the question if
one has researched all individuals in one's data.

> Still
> it's very common to state in a summary of a genealogical line, for
> example "died unmarried". Of course I could make a note or a tag, but
> since this probably is something several people have thought about I
> would like to hear how other people do it.
>
>>> For example that a
>>> (dead) person was never married, or had no children.
>> Your example only applies to those that lived during those years that
>> they
>> could have conceived children, i.e. the word '(dead)' preceding the
>> word
>> 'person' serves little if any purpose.
>
> That word is there to show that I am not looking for a more
> complicated solution that needs to have a timestamp for when this was
> true.

Success and enjoy, regards, Jk.

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Re: No children, unmarried, ...

Dave Scheipers
In reply to this post by Per Starbäck
For those that never married (and I have found evidence that says so)
I put "Unmarried" in the description field of their death event. I do
this for people over the age of 20.

I use the attribute "Number of children" that Brad suggests in the
family record, again if the fact can be learned.

Dave

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 2:05 AM, Per Starbäck <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I wonder how I best note some negative information. For example that a
> (dead) person was never married, or had no children.
>
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Re: No children, unmarried, ...

John W. Kitz-3
In reply to this post by Per Starbäck
Per,

On 2017-12-06, Per Starbäck wrote:

> I wonder how I best note some negative information. For example that a
> (dead) person was never married, or had no children.

As an alternative to the suggestions already offered you may also consider
adding one or more dummy children with a name of e.g.
<last-name-of-the-father-of-the-marriage> and something like "Childless
Marriage" as the first name.

This doesn't just solve the issues already covered in this thread, but also
results in the marriage being displayed in the Pedigree Chart view, which
AFAIK is not currently the case for childless marriages.

My initial thought was to use one child for every childless marriage, but,
assuming that doesn't adversely affect other 'under-the-hood' logic, such as
the relationship calculator, you might be able to get away with one dummy
child for all childless marriages in your entire dataset. If you are, the
added benefit may be that it becomes quite easy to identify all childless
marriages in your data, by looking at the families in the references tab of
the dummy child.

I hope this helps.

Success and enjoy, regards, Jk.


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Re: No children, unmarried, ...

Ron Johnson
In reply to this post by Per Starbäck
On 12/06/2017 01:05 AM, Per Starbäck wrote:
> I wonder how I best note some negative information. For example that a
> (dead) person was never married, or had no children.

For reporting purposes, or for a visual cue in the Person editor?

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Re: No children, unmarried, ...

Per Starbäck
>> I wonder how I best note some negative information. For example that a
>> (dead) person was never married, or had no children.
>
>
> For reporting purposes, or for a visual cue in the Person editor?

Both. What I actually have been doing is to add "unmarried" as a
description to the death event, just like Dave Scheipers wrote that he
had done, but I wasn't sure if there was a way that was better for
that in some way. I haven't been doing this all the time, but for some
people where I suspect I won't remember what I knew earlier when
looking at it again, especially if it is about people at the border of
what I'm interested in, so maybe I wouldn't care to go into a marriage
anyway.

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Re: No children, unmarried, ...

Ron Johnson
In reply to this post by Ron Johnson
On 12/06/2017 09:23 AM, Per Starbäck wrote:

>>> I wonder how I best note some negative information. For example that a
>>> (dead) person was never married, or had no children.
>>
>> For reporting purposes, or for a visual cue in the Person editor?
> Both. What I actually have been doing is to add "unmarried" as a
> description to the death event, just like Dave Scheipers wrote that he
> had done, but I wasn't sure if there was a way that was better for
> that in some way. I haven't been doing this all the time, but for some
> people where I suspect I won't remember what I knew earlier when
> looking at it again, especially if it is about people at the border of
> what I'm interested in, so maybe I wouldn't care to go into a marriage
> anyway.

I've been just adding a Note, but the custom events "Never Married" and "No
Children" might be a better idea, since Gramps is so Event oriented.

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