Open source online genealogy platform with open data and GEDCOM X alignment

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Open source online genealogy platform with open data and GEDCOM X alignment

Brylie Christopher Oxley

Hello,

I am a django/Python developer who is interested to build an open source platform for sharing open genealogy data. I don't want to re-invent the wheel too much, and would like to align with other standards/communities. To that end, I would like to initiate/resurrect the efforts to create a simple, online version of Gramps, with a data model based on GEDCOM X and using the django web framework.

I did find the Gramps Connect repository, but feel strongly that django is a good framework for this project.

Would any of the developers here be willing to lend a hand with this effort?


Best regards,

Brylie Christopher Oxley



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Re: Open source online genealogy platform with open data and GEDCOM X alignment

Nick Hall
On 24/12/2018 09:32, Brylie Christopher Oxley wrote:

I am a django/Python developer who is interested to build an open source platform for sharing open genealogy data. I don't want to re-invent the wheel too much, and would like to align with other standards/communities. To that end, I would like to initiate/resurrect the efforts to create a simple, online version of Gramps, with a data model based on GEDCOM X and using the django web framework.

I did find the Gramps Connect repository, but feel strongly that django is a good framework for this project.

Would any of the developers here be willing to lend a hand with this effort?


Brylie,

Thank you for expressing an interest in Gramps.

Our data model is based on the older Gedcom 5.5.1 standard rather than Gedcom-X.  However, it has been enhanced over the years to support, amongst other features, top-level events, better international name handling and a hierarchical place structure.

The developer of Gramps Connect, Doug Blank, left us to start his own project - GPrime.  It would certainly be worth talking to him.

https://github.com/GenealogyCollective/gprime

If you decided to join us, then I would be happy for you to lead our web development team and choose the technologies we use.  We already have a PostgreSQL backend, but this currently stores objects as pickled blobs.   We also have a MongoDB backend which exposes our data as documents.

I would be willing to help with the development.  It would be interesting to know if anyone else is interested.

Regards,


Nick.




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Re: Open source online genealogy platform with open data and GEDCOM X alignment

prculley
The Gprime code also stores data in the db (SQLite) as JSON objects rather than pickled blobs.  But the last time I looked, the data model was still the same as Gramps, and could still exchange data via the Gramps XML files.

I would like to participate in getting GEDCOM X integration with Gramps itself, I'm not so interested in a web version of Gramps.  My goal would be better integration with FamilySearch, if that is possible without getting into difficult licensing issues.

Paul C.

On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 8:38 AM Nick Hall <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 24/12/2018 09:32, Brylie Christopher Oxley wrote:

I am a django/Python developer who is interested to build an open source platform for sharing open genealogy data. I don't want to re-invent the wheel too much, and would like to align with other standards/communities. To that end, I would like to initiate/resurrect the efforts to create a simple, online version of Gramps, with a data model based on GEDCOM X and using the django web framework.

I did find the Gramps Connect repository, but feel strongly that django is a good framework for this project.

Would any of the developers here be willing to lend a hand with this effort?


Brylie,

Thank you for expressing an interest in Gramps.

Our data model is based on the older Gedcom 5.5.1 standard rather than Gedcom-X.  However, it has been enhanced over the years to support, amongst other features, top-level events, better international name handling and a hierarchical place structure.

The developer of Gramps Connect, Doug Blank, left us to start his own project - GPrime.  It would certainly be worth talking to him.

https://github.com/GenealogyCollective/gprime

If you decided to join us, then I would be happy for you to lead our web development team and choose the technologies we use.  We already have a PostgreSQL backend, but this currently stores objects as pickled blobs.   We also have a MongoDB backend which exposes our data as documents.

I would be willing to help with the development.  It would be interesting to know if anyone else is interested.

Regards,


Nick.


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Re: Open source online genealogy platform with open data and GEDCOM X alignment

enno
Hi Paul,

> I would like to participate in getting GEDCOM X integration with
> Gramps itself, I'm not so interested in a web version of Gramps.  My
> goal would be better integration with FamilySearch, if that is
> possible without getting into difficult licensing issues.

I remember, years ago, that I found an LDS employee/member who had
cloned our repo, I think, and tried to work on an API/plug-in, so that
we don't need to go through the certification process for Gramps as a
whole. I haven't heard from him since, however, so I really don't know
if there is any progress.

Right now, I do my FS work with RootsMagic, which happens to run on
SQLite, meaning that, in theory, once we have a more relational model,
without pickles, one could make a tool to sync that with a Gramps DB,
and then run RootsMagic for an FS sync.

Regards,

Enno




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Re: Open source online genealogy platform with open data and GEDCOM X alignment

enno
In reply to this post by prculley
Op 24-12-18 om 16:18 schreef Paul Culley:
> I would like to participate in getting GEDCOM X integration with
> Gramps itself, I'm not so interested in a web version of Gramps.  My
> goal would be better integration with FamilySearch, if that is
> possible without getting into difficult licensing issues.

The person I referred to earlier is Elder A. M. Evans. Here's his GitHub
page:

https://github.com/elderamevans

Regards,

Enno




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Re: Open source online genealogy platform with open data and GEDCOM X alignment

Brylie Christopher Oxley
In reply to this post by Nick Hall
Thanks Nick.

Would it be possible for me to start working under the 'gramps-project'
namespace? If so, could we create a new repository, such as
'gramps-online' and add the AGPL license and a README?

 From there, I will start looking at the code from the previous
django-webapp and gramps_connect, to see what parts might be useful.

I will follow a conventional django project structure and development
process, and will begin perhaps with model definitions based on the
existing PostgreSQL backend.

Regards,

Brylie


On 12/24/2018 04:37 PM, Nick Hall wrote:

>
> If you decided to join us, then I would be happy for you to lead our
> web development team and choose the technologies we use.  We already
> have a PostgreSQL backend, but this currently stores objects as
> pickled blobs.   We also have a MongoDB backend which exposes our data
> as documents.
>
> I would be willing to help with the development.  It would be
> interesting to know if anyone else is interested.
>



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Re: Open source online genealogy platform with open data and GEDCOM X alignment

Brylie Christopher Oxley
In reply to this post by Nick Hall
Nick,

What would be involved for me to join the Gramps development team?

I would like to set up a fresh django project structure for this
project, and incorporate parts of the original Gramps codebase
when/where useful.

I just did a bit of research regarding the proposed AGPL license for the
Gramps Online project, and it turns out that portions of Gramps should
be re-usable by the Online version.

https://www.reddit.com/r/gramps/comments/a93k8g/reviving_gramps_django_project_and_align_with/ecn6mje/

Should I create a repository under my own GitHub namespace, or can we
set up a fresh repository under the Gramps organization?


Regards,

Brylie


On 12/24/2018 04:37 PM, Nick Hall wrote:
> If you decided to join us, then I would be happy for you to lead our
> web development team and choose the technologies we use.  We already
> have a PostgreSQL backend, but this currently stores objects as
> pickled blobs.   We also have a MongoDB backend which exposes our data
> as documents.



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Re: Open source online genealogy platform with open data and GEDCOM X alignment

Nick Hall
On 27/12/2018 20:43, Brylie Christopher Oxley wrote:
> What would be involved for me to join the Gramps development team?

Brylie,

I have created a new repository called "gramps-online" and a new "Web
Developers" team.  You should have received an invitation to join the
project.

For now, I have specified a GPLv2 licence which we use for the rest of
Gramps.  If we wish to consider a different licence, such as AGPL, then
we should really discuss this with the other developers first.  Is there
any particular reason why you want to use AGPL?

Welcome to the Gramps project!

Regards,


Nick.




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Re: Open source online genealogy platform with open data and GEDCOM X alignment

John Ralls-2


> On Dec 27, 2018, at 3:22 PM, Nick Hall <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 27/12/2018 20:43, Brylie Christopher Oxley wrote:
>> What would be involved for me to join the Gramps development team?
>
> Brylie,
>
> I have created a new repository called "gramps-online" and a new "Web Developers" team.  You should have received an invitation to join the project.
>
> For now, I have specified a GPLv2 licence which we use for the rest of Gramps.  If we wish to consider a different licence, such as AGPL, then we should really discuss this with the other developers first.  Is there any particular reason why you want to use AGPL?

Nick,

https://www.gnu.org/licenses/why-affero-gpl.html

It's a logical extension for software that's going to run on a web server.

Regards,
John Ralls



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Re: Open source online genealogy platform with open data and GEDCOM X alignment

GRAMPS - Dev mailing list
>> For now, I have specified a GPLv2 licence which we use for the rest of Gramps.  If we wish to consider a different licence, such as AGPL, > > then we should really discuss this with the other developers first.  Is there any particular reason why you want to use AGPL?

> Nick,

https://www.gnu.org/licenses/why-affero-gpl.html

> It's a logical extension for software that's going to run on a web server.

The criticism of the GPL3 and the more restrictive AGPL is that they are viral and you can never go backwards. For example, if someone writes some useful code for an AGPL project and then we want to use that code in Gramps, we cannot use it without also changing our license to AGPL. The same would go the other direction - other OSS projects can not use the code from our AGPL code base without also making their own license more restrictive.

In my opinion, AGPL is a solution looking for a problem. If someone wants to modify the code and use it on a web server, so be it. What harm does it do to us?

GPL2 "or later" provides the most flexibility for sharing code across projects. Also, if someone did somehow find a way to harm us, we could exercise the "or later" clause to prevent it from happening again.

~Brian


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Re: Open source online genealogy platform with open data and GEDCOM X alignment

John Ralls-2


On Dec 27, 2018, at 7:33 PM, Brian Matherly <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> For now, I have specified a GPLv2 licence which we use for the rest of Gramps.  If we wish to consider a different licence, such as AGPL, > > then we should really discuss this with the other developers first.  Is there any particular reason why you want to use AGPL?

> Nick,

https://www.gnu.org/licenses/why-affero-gpl.html

> It's a logical extension for software that's going to run on a web server.

The criticism of the GPL3 and the more restrictive AGPL is that they are viral and you can never go backwards. For example, if someone writes some useful code for an AGPL project and then we want to use that code in Gramps, we cannot use it without also changing our license to AGPL. The same would go the other direction - other OSS projects can not use the code from our AGPL code base without also making their own license more restrictive.

In my opinion, AGPL is a solution looking for a problem. If someone wants to modify the code and use it on a web server, so be it. What harm does it do to us?

GPL2 "or later" provides the most flexibility for sharing code across projects. Also, if someone did somehow find a way to harm us, we could exercise the "or later" clause to prevent it from happening again.

No, any GPL, even the Lesser GPL, requires any derivative work to adopt that version of the (L)GPL. The LGPL relaxes the redistribution requirement by allowing dynamic linkage without imposing the GPL on the using code. The AGPL tightens it by saying effectively that running a web server is a form of distribution. IMO that’s a bit of a philosophical stretch unless the code in question actually runs in the browser instead of on the server, but that’s what the license says.

BTW Berkeley DB version 6 and later is distributed under the AGPL and we link with Berkeley DB, so Oracle could, if they cared to, force us to use the AGPL too. They disclaim that on https://www.oracle.com/technetwork/database/berkeleydb/downloads/licensing-098979.html saying
"Oracle recognizes the common open source licenses, including the GPL and the BSD license, as open source licenses. In general, licenses recognized by opensource.org meet the Oracle requirements of "freely redistributable under reasonable conditions."


Regards,
John Ralls



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Re: Open source online genealogy platform with open data and GEDCOM X alignment

Brylie Christopher Oxley
In reply to this post by Nick Hall
Thanks Nick.

I don't want to get mired in a license debate, as it can quickly drain a lot of energy.

That said, here is my summary of why I believe we can/should adopt the AGPL for Gramps Online:

- AGPL provides strong Copyleft protection for software that runs 'in the cloud', ensuring that end-users and developers have the right of access to source even when the software is on a remote server
- AGPL and GPL v3 source code can be mixed together in a single project, allowing projects that adopt strong Copyleft to share code
- Gramps already allows its code to be reused and modified under the GPL v2 or later, so Gramps Online already has permission to use Gramps code with AGPL code
- if Gramps developers want to use Gramps Online code, it can be mixed by upgrading to GPL v3, which is already permitted by all of the contributors who have made changes to Gramps under the 'GPL v2 or later' license

In short, the license compatibility isn't really an issue.

The original Gramps developers saw the importance of Copyleft at a time when desktop software was prevalent. The AGPL simply adapts the protection of Copyleft to the Cloud environment, for which Gramps Online will be designed.

Best regards,
Brylie


On December 28, 2018 1:22:53 AM GMT+02:00, Nick Hall <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 27/12/2018 20:43, Brylie Christopher Oxley wrote:
What would be involved for me to join the Gramps development team?

Brylie,

I have created a new repository called "gramps-online" and a new "Web
Developers" team.  You should have received an invitation to join the
project.

For now, I have specified a GPLv2 licence which we use for the rest of
Gramps.  If we wish to consider a different licence, such as AGPL, then
we should really discuss this with the other developers first.  Is there
any particular reason why you want to use AGPL?

Welcome to the Gramps project!

Regards,


Nick.
Gramps-devel mailing list
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--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

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Re: Open source online genealogy platform with open data and GEDCOM X alignment

Nick Hall
On 28/12/2018 07:22, Brylie Christopher Oxley wrote:

> That said, here is my summary of why I believe we can/should adopt the
> AGPL for Gramps Online:
>
> - AGPL provides strong Copyleft protection for software that runs 'in
> the cloud', ensuring that end-users and developers have the right of
> access to source even when the software is on a remote server
> - AGPL and GPL v3 source code can be mixed together in a single
> project, allowing projects that adopt strong Copyleft to share code
> - Gramps already allows its code to be reused and modified under the
> GPL v2 or later, so Gramps Online already has permission to use Gramps
> code with AGPL code
> - if Gramps developers want to use Gramps Online code, it can be mixed
> by upgrading to GPL v3, which is already permitted by all of the
> contributors who have made changes to Gramps under the 'GPL v2 or
> later' license
>
> In short, the license compatibility isn't really an issue.
>
> The original Gramps developers saw the importance of Copyleft at a
> time when desktop software was prevalent. The AGPL simply adapts the
> protection of Copyleft to the Cloud environment, for which Gramps
> Online will be designed.

I have no objection to using AGPL for Gramps Online.  It seems like a
reasonable choice to me.  We can always put any shared library code in
the core Gramps repository.

My role in the project is technical, so I'll leave this decision to Brian.

Regards,


Nick.




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Re: Open source online genealogy platform with open data and GEDCOM X alignment

GRAMPS - Dev mailing list
On 12/28/2018 10:56 AM, Nick Hall wrote:

> On 28/12/2018 07:22, Brylie Christopher Oxley wrote:
>> That said, here is my summary of why I believe we can/should adopt
>> the AGPL for Gramps Online:
>>
>> - AGPL provides strong Copyleft protection for software that runs 'in
>> the cloud', ensuring that end-users and developers have the right of
>> access to source even when the software is on a remote server
>> - AGPL and GPL v3 source code can be mixed together in a single
>> project, allowing projects that adopt strong Copyleft to share code
>> - Gramps already allows its code to be reused and modified under the
>> GPL v2 or later, so Gramps Online already has permission to use
>> Gramps code with AGPL code
>> - if Gramps developers want to use Gramps Online code, it can be
>> mixed by upgrading to GPL v3, which is already permitted by all of
>> the contributors who have made changes to Gramps under the 'GPL v2 or
>> later' license
>>
>> In short, the license compatibility isn't really an issue.
>>
>> The original Gramps developers saw the importance of Copyleft at a
>> time when desktop software was prevalent. The AGPL simply adapts the
>> protection of Copyleft to the Cloud environment, for which Gramps
>> Online will be designed.
>
> I have no objection to using AGPL for Gramps Online.  It seems like a
> reasonable choice to me.  We can always put any shared library code in
> the core Gramps repository.
>
> My role in the project is technical, so I'll leave this decision to
> Brian.
>
> Regards,
>
I think it is important that the "gen" module be as accessible and open
as possible. Ideally, the gen module would be in its own repository and
under the LGPL2 license. But it is not possible to change it to a less
restrictive license (this is what I mean when I say that you can never
go "backwards"). So the best we can do is keep it under GPL2. We can use
AGPL for Gramps Online. But it is very important that our technical
reviewers be diligent and watch out for code that should be in the gen
module. If any code is submitted to be merged into Gramps Online, but it
is code that would be generally useful for other applications, then the
pull request should be rejected, and the code should be re-submitted to
the Gramps repository instead (and therefore GPL2). In other words,
Gramps Online is only for code that is specifically needed for the web
UI and not useful for other applications.

~Brian



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Re: Open source online genealogy platform with open data and GEDCOM X alignment

Nick Hall
On 29/12/2018 14:15, Brian Matherly via Gramps-devel wrote:

> I think it is important that the "gen" module be as accessible and
> open as possible. Ideally, the gen module would be in its own
> repository and under the LGPL2 license. But it is not possible to
> change it to a less restrictive license (this is what I mean when I
> say that you can never go "backwards"). So the best we can do is keep
> it under GPL2. We can use AGPL for Gramps Online. But it is very
> important that our technical reviewers be diligent and watch out for
> code that should be in the gen module. If any code is submitted to be
> merged into Gramps Online, but it is code that would be generally
> useful for other applications, then the pull request should be
> rejected, and the code should be re-submitted to the Gramps repository
> instead (and therefore GPL2). In other words, Gramps Online is only
> for code that is specifically needed for the web UI and not useful for
> other applications.

I agree.  I have recreated the gramps-online repository with a AGPLv3
license file.

Nick.




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Re: Open source online genealogy platform with open data and GEDCOM X alignment

Brylie Christopher Oxley
Thanks Nick.

I am still awaiting an invite to join the gramps-project organization.

Regards,

Brylie


On 12/29/2018 07:17 PM, Nick Hall wrote:

> On 29/12/2018 14:15, Brian Matherly via Gramps-devel wrote:
>> I think it is important that the "gen" module be as accessible and
>> open as possible. Ideally, the gen module would be in its own
>> repository and under the LGPL2 license. But it is not possible to
>> change it to a less restrictive license (this is what I mean when I
>> say that you can never go "backwards"). So the best we can do is keep
>> it under GPL2. We can use AGPL for Gramps Online. But it is very
>> important that our technical reviewers be diligent and watch out for
>> code that should be in the gen module. If any code is submitted to be
>> merged into Gramps Online, but it is code that would be generally
>> useful for other applications, then the pull request should be
>> rejected, and the code should be re-submitted to the Gramps
>> repository instead (and therefore GPL2). In other words, Gramps
>> Online is only for code that is specifically needed for the web UI
>> and not useful for other applications.
>
> I agree.  I have recreated the gramps-online repository with a AGPLv3
> license file.
>
> Nick.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel



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Re: Open source online genealogy platform with open data and GEDCOM X alignment

GRAMPS - Dev mailing list
On Saturday, December 29, 2018, 2:38:27 PM CST, Brylie Christopher Oxley <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Thanks Nick.

> I am still awaiting an invite to join the gramps-project organization.

> Regards,

> Brylie

Brylie,

There is no requirement to be a member of the gramps-project organization. Start submitting pull requests now! Historically, we have elevated users permissions on the project on an as-need basis and after a history of contributions.

Happy Hacking,

~Brian


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Is BSDDB the correct term for the open source library since the Oracle acquisition?

GRAMPS - Dev mailing list
Are we using the outdated acronym from when it was a Sleepycat product before Oracle acquired them in 2006?  They usually have a grace period when either name CAN be used in a rebranded product.  Is using the current branded name a requirement of using their open source library?


I was looking through the manual for a definition of the BSDDB acronym. (BSD was only spelled out on one of the NL language page. https://www.gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php/Gramps_5.0_Wiki_Manual_-_User_Directory/nl )

BSDDB - the Berkeley Software Distribution (a Unix-like operating system) DataBase




https://docs.python.org/2/library/bsddb.html

Berkeley DB (BDB)

from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berkeley_DB
BDB was commercially supported and developed by Sleepycat Software from 1996 to 2006. This company was acquired by Oracle Corporation in February 2006, which continues to develop and sell Berkeley DB. Under Oracle's stewardship, "Berkeley DB" has become a common brand name for three distinct products: Oracle Berkeley DB, Berkeley DB Java Edition, and Berkeley DB XML. These three products all share a common ancestry and are currently under active development.



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Re: Is BSDDB the correct term for the open source library since the Oracle acquisition?

John Ralls-2
It's never been "BSDDB", always "Berkeley DB" though it was originally developed for the AT&T-license-free 4.4 BSD. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berkeley_DB. That hasn't stopped anyone from calling it BSDDB.

Regards,
John Ralls

> On Dec 30, 2018, at 12:56 PM, Emyoulation--- via Gramps-devel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Are we using the outdated acronym from when it was a Sleepycat product before Oracle acquired them in 2006?  They usually have a grace period when either name CAN be used in a rebranded product.  Is using the current branded name a requirement of using their open source library?
> https://www.gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php/Install_latest_BSDDB 
>
>
> I was looking through the manual for a definition of the BSDDB acronym. (BSD was only spelled out on one of the NL language page. https://www.gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php/Gramps_5.0_Wiki_Manual_-_User_Directory/nl )
>
> BSDDB - the Berkeley Software Distribution (a Unix-like operating system) DataBase
>
>
>
>
> https://docs.python.org/2/library/bsddb.html
>
> Berkeley DB (BDB)
>
> from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berkeley_DB
> BDB was commercially supported and developed by Sleepycat Software from 1996 to 2006. This company was acquired by Oracle Corporation in February 2006, which continues to develop and sell Berkeley DB. Under Oracle's stewardship, "Berkeley DB" has become a common brand name for three distinct products: Oracle Berkeley DB, Berkeley DB Java Edition, and Berkeley DB XML. These three products all share a common ancestry and are currently under active development.
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
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