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Opening database

Mike White-11
I'm sorry for this. I've looked at the e-mail archives, and I'm damned
if I can figure out how to search through them. So, I've got to ask this
question without searching. I copied my .gramps folder to my Dropbox
folder. How do I use my Gramps database from Dropbox? I want to be able
to use the data on different computers. When I open the family tree
manager I don't see anyway to open the database.

--
Mike White
Lorena, Texas



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Re: Opening database

Mike White-11
On 06/13/2011 12:08 PM, Gerald Britton wrote:

> GRAMPSHOME
>
> http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=Run_GRAMPS_from_a_portable_drive
>
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 12:08 PM, Mike White<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>> I'm sorry for this. I've looked at the e-mail archives, and I'm damned
>> if I can figure out how to search through them. So, I've got to ask this
>> question without searching. I copied my .gramps folder to my Dropbox
>> folder. How do I use my Gramps database from Dropbox? I want to be able
>> to use the data on different computers. When I open the family tree
>> manager I don't see anyway to open the database.
>>
>> --
>> Mike White
>> Lorena, Texas
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content
>> authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image
>> Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking.
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gramps-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
>>
>
>
I guess I'll try this, but I don't understand why we can't choose what
database we want to run right from the file menu of Gramps. Many other
programs allow that even if the data resides on another drive, or
another folder. If I created a link in my home partition to point to my
Dropbox, could I run grams without starting Gramps from a script? This
just seems like a very convoluted way to operate.

--
Mike White
Lorena, Texas



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Re: Opening database

Gerald Britton-2
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 2:24 PM, Mike White <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 06/13/2011 12:08 PM, Gerald Britton wrote:
>>
>> GRAMPSHOME
>>
>>
>> http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=Run_GRAMPS_from_a_portable_drive
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 12:08 PM, Mike White<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm sorry for this. I've looked at the e-mail archives, and I'm damned
>>> if I can figure out how to search through them. So, I've got to ask this
>>> question without searching. I copied my .gramps folder to my Dropbox
>>> folder. How do I use my Gramps database from Dropbox? I want to be able
>>> to use the data on different computers. When I open the family tree
>>> manager I don't see anyway to open the database

I hear you.  This is probably a good feature request!

.

>>>
>>> --
>>> Mike White
>>> Lorena, Texas
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content
>>> authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image
>>> Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking.
>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Gramps-users mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
>>>
>>
>>
> I guess I'll try this, but I don't understand why we can't choose what
> database we want to run right from the file menu of Gramps. Many other
> programs allow that even if the data resides on another drive, or another
> folder. If I created a link in my home partition to point to my Dropbox,
> could I run grams without starting Gramps from a script? This just seems
> like a very convoluted way to operate.
>
> --
> Mike White
> Lorena, Texas
>
>
>



--
Gerald Britton

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Re: Opening database

Billie Walsh
In reply to this post by Mike White-11
On 06/13/2011 11:08 AM, Mike White wrote:
> I'm sorry for this. I've looked at the e-mail archives, and I'm damned
> if I can figure out how to search through them. So, I've got to ask this
> question without searching. I copied my .gramps folder to my Dropbox
> folder. How do I use my Gramps database from Dropbox? I want to be able
> to use the data on different computers. When I open the family tree
> manager I don't see anyway to open the database.
>

I kind of held off with a reply hoping that someone more in the know
would give an answer.

I assume your reason for wanting to put the database in Dropbox is to
use it from more than one machine.

It's my understanding that this is fraught with problems. What I see
coming across the list is mostly to export the database as a spreadsheet
and import into the other machine each time you want to make changes
from one or the other, especially if they are not the same exact version
of Gramps. In other words, don't do what your thinking.

If I'm wrong hopefully someone will correct me.

If you really want to do something like this I've found that PAF works
just fine under Linux with Wine. Several other will also. PAF doesn't
care if you make changes from different machines in a single database,
and the database is all included in one file. It's not as "powerful" a
genealogy program a Gramps but it does work.

--


"A good moral character is the first essential in a man." George Washington

_ _...  ..._ _
_._  ._  .....  ._..  ...  .._

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Re: Opening database

Gerald Britton-2
Actually a better way (one that I use), is to export your gramps
database to Dropbox in either gramps xml or gramps pkg (with media
files) format.  Then, you can import this into empty Gramps databases
on other machines.  This approach is absolutely safe and gives you
backups as well, especially if you give each Dropbox copy a unique
name (perhaps by time and date)

On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 7:51 PM, Billie Walsh <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 06/13/2011 11:08 AM, Mike White wrote:
>> I'm sorry for this. I've looked at the e-mail archives, and I'm damned
>> if I can figure out how to search through them. So, I've got to ask this
>> question without searching. I copied my .gramps folder to my Dropbox
>> folder. How do I use my Gramps database from Dropbox? I want to be able
>> to use the data on different computers. When I open the family tree
>> manager I don't see anyway to open the database.
>>
>
> I kind of held off with a reply hoping that someone more in the know
> would give an answer.
>
> I assume your reason for wanting to put the database in Dropbox is to
> use it from more than one machine.
>
> It's my understanding that this is fraught with problems. What I see
> coming across the list is mostly to export the database as a spreadsheet
> and import into the other machine each time you want to make changes
> from one or the other, especially if they are not the same exact version
> of Gramps. In other words, don't do what your thinking.
>
> If I'm wrong hopefully someone will correct me.
>
> If you really want to do something like this I've found that PAF works
> just fine under Linux with Wine. Several other will also. PAF doesn't
> care if you make changes from different machines in a single database,
> and the database is all included in one file. It's not as "powerful" a
> genealogy program a Gramps but it does work.
>
> --
>
>
> "A good moral character is the first essential in a man." George Washington
>
> _ _...  ..._ _
> _._  ._  .....  ._..  ...  .._
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content
> authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image
> Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
>



--
Gerald Britton

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Re: Opening database

Mike White-11
In reply to this post by Billie Walsh
Billie Walsh <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 06/13/2011 11:08 AM, Mike White wrote:
> I'm sorry for this. I've looked at the e-mail archives, and I'm damned
> if I can figure out how to search through them. So, I've got to ask this
> question without searching. I copied my .gramps folder to my Dropbox
> folder. How do I use my Gramps database from Dropbox? I want to be able
> to use the data on different computers. When I open the family tree
> manager I don't see anyway to open the database.
>

I kind of held off with a reply hoping that someone more in the know
would give an answer.

I assume your reason for wanting to put the database in Dropbox is to
use it from more than one machine.

It's my understanding that this is fraught with problems. What I see
coming across the list is mostly to export the database as a spreadsheet
and import into the other machine each time you want to make changes
from one or the other, especially if they are not the same exact version
of Gramps. In other words, don't do what your thinking.

If I'm wrong hopefully someone will correct me.

If you really want to do something like this I've found that PAF works
just fine under Linux with Wine. Several other will also. PAF doesn't
care if you make changes from different machines in a single database,
and the database is all included in one file. It's not as "powerful" a
genealogy program a Gramps but it does work.

--


"A good moral character is the first essential in a man." George Washington

_ _... ..._ _
_._ ._ ..... ._.. ... .._



EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content
authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image
Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking.
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I'm using the same version of Gramps, the same distribution and version of Linux. Just on different computers. Shouldn't be a problem.
--
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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Re: Opening database

Martin Ewing
In reply to this post by Gerald Britton-2

On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 7:56 PM, Gerald Britton <[hidden email]> wrote:
Actually a better way (one that I use), is to export your gramps
database to Dropbox in either gramps xml or gramps pkg (with media
files) format.  Then, you can import this into empty Gramps databases
on other machines.  This approach is absolutely safe and gives you
backups as well, especially if you give each Dropbox copy a unique
name (perhaps by time and date)

On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 7:51 PM, Billie Walsh <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 06/13/2011 11:08 AM, Mike White wrote:
>> I'm sorry for this. I've looked at the e-mail archives, and I'm damned
>> if I can figure out how to search through them. So, I've got to ask this
>> question without searching. I copied my .gramps folder to my Dropbox
>> folder. How do I use my Gramps database from Dropbox? I want to be able
>> to use the data on different computers. When I open the family tree
>> manager I don't see anyway to open the database.
>>
>
> I kind of held off with a reply hoping that someone more in the know
> would give an answer.
>
> I assume your reason for wanting to put the database in Dropbox is to
> use it from more than one machine.
>
> It's my understanding that this is fraught with problems. What I see
> coming across the list is mostly to export the database as a spreadsheet
> and import into the other machine each time you want to make changes
> from one or the other, especially if they are not the same exact version
> of Gramps. In other words, don't do what your thinking.
>
> If I'm wrong hopefully someone will correct me.
>
> If you really want to do something like this I've found that PAF works
> just fine under Linux with Wine. Several other will also. PAF doesn't
> care if you make changes from different machines in a single database,
> and the database is all included in one file. It's not as "powerful" a
> genealogy program a Gramps but it does work.
>
> --
>
>
> "A good moral character is the first essential in a man." George Washington
>
> _ _...  ..._ _
> _._  ._  .....  ._..  ...  .._
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content
> authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image
> Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
>



--
Gerald Britton

The problem with having different machines working with different versions of the database is that there's no good way to resynchronize or merge the results if you do some editing on one machine and then on another.

When I go on a research trip, I will export a Gramps db to my laptop and work on that for the duration, and then export it back to my desktop machine later.  You have to be careful to label the db's with their "epoch" or confusion results. 

A database sync/merge function would be nice, but I don't think it would be easy to automate.  Perhaps if all db variables were time-tagged with time and source of last change?

Solving the problem with cloud storage (Dropbox) might seem like a winner, but only if Gramps is aware of the other possible accesses and has appropriate locking.   If you're offline and use Dropbox data, Dropbox tries to resynchronize when you come back online, and there can can have been conflicts generated in the mean time.  Headaches all around.

Programmers solve such problems by having code "checked out" when you're working on it so that other programmers can't step on you before you check it back in.  Something like that could be done for Gramps data, I suppose.

Martin

--
Martin Ewing
Branford, Connecticut
[hidden email]

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Re: Opening database

Benny Malengier


2011/6/14 Martin Ewing <[hidden email]>


The problem with having different machines working with different versions of the database is that there's no good way to resynchronize or merge the results if you do some editing on one machine and then on another.

When I go on a research trip, I will export a Gramps db to my laptop and work on that for the duration, and then export it back to my desktop machine later.  You have to be careful to label the db's with their "epoch" or confusion results. 

A database sync/merge function would be nice, but I don't think it would be easy to automate.  Perhaps if all db variables were time-tagged with time and source of last change?

Solving the problem with cloud storage (Dropbox) might seem like a winner, but only if Gramps is aware of the other possible accesses and has appropriate locking.   If you're offline and use Dropbox data, Dropbox tries to resynchronize when you come back online, and there can can have been conflicts generated in the mean time.  Headaches all around.

Programmers solve such problems by having code "checked out" when you're working on it so that other programmers can't step on you before you check it back in.  Something like that could be done for Gramps data, I suppose.

Yes, but a lot of work for probably few people that use it. The easy lock we use now does the trick in a simple manner (lock icon in family tree manager).
Instead of dropbox, a real share (samba eg) would allow real concurrent data access (not configured in Gramps, but possible with again quite some work overhead).

Anyway, what it all means is that dropbox works fine if you work alone on your database and you know what you are doing (allow time for dropbox sync, use same python and gramps versions on the different computers).  So, test your setup, and then stick with it, and keep some automated backup running. You should be fine then (if you have enough GB dropbox account, the database can be big).

For the future, we are playing with allowing an sqlite database backend. Not sure it will come through, but that is a real portable database format (at least they claim so). The database we use now is not, but on the upside, we have a lot of experience with it.

Benny

Martin

--
Martin Ewing
Branford, Connecticut
[hidden email]

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Re: Opening database

Billie Walsh
On 06/14/2011 02:05 AM, Benny Malengier wrote:

>
>
> 2011/6/14 Martin Ewing <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>
>
>
>     The problem with having different machines working with different
>     versions of the database is that there's no good way to
>     resynchronize or merge the results if you do some editing on one
>     machine and then on another.
>
>     When I go on a research trip, I will export a Gramps db to my laptop
>     and work on that for the duration, and then export it back to my
>     desktop machine later.  You have to be careful to label the db's
>     with their "epoch" or confusion results.
>
>     A database sync/merge function would be nice, but I don't think it
>     would be easy to automate.  Perhaps if all db variables were
>     time-tagged with time and source of last change?
>
>     Solving the problem with cloud storage (Dropbox) might seem like a
>     winner, but only if Gramps is aware of the other possible accesses
>     and has appropriate locking.   If you're offline and use Dropbox
>     data, Dropbox tries to resynchronize when you come back online, and
>     there can can have been conflicts generated in the mean time.
>     Headaches all around.
>
>     Programmers solve such problems by having code "checked out" when
>     you're working on it so that other programmers can't step on you
>     before you check it back in.  Something like that could be done for
>     Gramps data, I suppose.
>
>
> Yes, but a lot of work for probably few people that use it. The easy
> lock we use now does the trick in a simple manner (lock icon in family
> tree manager).
> Instead of dropbox, a real share (samba eg) would allow real concurrent
> data access (not configured in Gramps, but possible with again quite
> some work overhead).
>
> Anyway, what it all means is that dropbox works fine if you work alone
> on your database and you know what you are doing (allow time for dropbox
> sync, use same python and gramps versions on the different computers).
> So, test your setup, and then stick with it, and keep some automated
> backup running. You should be fine then (if you have enough GB dropbox
> account, the database can be big).
>
> For the future, we are playing with allowing an sqlite database backend.
> Not sure it will come through, but that is a real portable database
> format (at least they claim so). The database we use now is not, but on
> the upside, we have a lot of experience with it.
>
> Benny
>

I can see where multiple people using a single database at the same time
could be a major issue.

My own needs are just for a single user with several machines. I have my
desktop at home that I use Gramps on for online stuff that I find and
other sources here at home. When we go out of town I take along my
laptop, netbook and tablet. The laptop takes the place of my desktop in
the hotel room while the netbook and/or tablet can be used for any
research done away from the room. If I go to a local research center or
records repository I take a netbook or tablet. This is much easier than
lugging around that briefcase I use to take when I was at the library. I
have all my information available at the touch of a finger and can add
information directly into the database and not take notes and transcribe
when I get home.

Having a completely transportable database in this instance is a HUGE
advantage. Today more and more people are using multiple devices for
just about everything. You really can't take a desktop computer to a
research library. Why lug around a ten pound laptop when you can carry a
two or three pound netbook or a one or two pound tablet. Even the iPhone
is just a hand held computer with a cell phone built in. The world is
changing. The needs of people that use Gramps are changing. We are no
longer dependent on one single computer for everything.

Technology is bypassing Gramps.

--


"A good moral character is the first essential in a man." George Washington

_ _...  ..._ _
_._  ._  .....  ._..  ...  .._

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Re: Opening database

Vladimir Perić
On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 2:54 PM, Billie Walsh <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 06/14/2011 02:05 AM, Benny Malengier wrote:
>
>
> 2011/6/14 Martin Ewing <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>
>
>
>     The problem with having different machines working with different
>     versions of the database is that there's no good way to
>     resynchronize or merge the results if you do some editing on one
>     machine and then on another.
>
>     When I go on a research trip, I will export a Gramps db to my laptop
>     and work on that for the duration, and then export it back to my
>     desktop machine later.  You have to be careful to label the db's
>     with their "epoch" or confusion results.
>
>     A database sync/merge function would be nice, but I don't think it
>     would be easy to automate.  Perhaps if all db variables were
>     time-tagged with time and source of last change?
>
>     Solving the problem with cloud storage (Dropbox) might seem like a
>     winner, but only if Gramps is aware of the other possible accesses
>     and has appropriate locking.   If you're offline and use Dropbox
>     data, Dropbox tries to resynchronize when you come back online, and
>     there can can have been conflicts generated in the mean time.
>     Headaches all around.
>
>     Programmers solve such problems by having code "checked out" when
>     you're working on it so that other programmers can't step on you
>     before you check it back in.  Something like that could be done for
>     Gramps data, I suppose.
>
>
> Yes, but a lot of work for probably few people that use it. The easy
> lock we use now does the trick in a simple manner (lock icon in family
> tree manager).
> Instead of dropbox, a real share (samba eg) would allow real concurrent
> data access (not configured in Gramps, but possible with again quite
> some work overhead).
>
> Anyway, what it all means is that dropbox works fine if you work alone
> on your database and you know what you are doing (allow time for dropbox
> sync, use same python and gramps versions on the different computers).
> So, test your setup, and then stick with it, and keep some automated
> backup running. You should be fine then (if you have enough GB dropbox
> account, the database can be big).
>
> For the future, we are playing with allowing an sqlite database backend.
> Not sure it will come through, but that is a real portable database
> format (at least they claim so). The database we use now is not, but on
> the upside, we have a lot of experience with it.
>
> Benny
>

I can see where multiple people using a single database at the same time
could be a major issue.

My own needs are just for a single user with several machines. I have my
desktop at home that I use Gramps on for online stuff that I find and
other sources here at home. When we go out of town I take along my
laptop, netbook and tablet. The laptop takes the place of my desktop in
the hotel room while the netbook and/or tablet can be used for any
research done away from the room. If I go to a local research center or
records repository I take a netbook or tablet. This is much easier than
lugging around that briefcase I use to take when I was at the library. I
have all my information available at the touch of a finger and can add
information directly into the database and not take notes and transcribe
when I get home.

Having a completely transportable database in this instance is a HUGE
advantage. Today more and more people are using multiple devices for
just about everything. You really can't take a desktop computer to a
research library. Why lug around a ten pound laptop when you can carry a
two or three pound netbook or a one or two pound tablet. Even the iPhone
is just a hand held computer with a cell phone built in. The world is
changing. The needs of people that use Gramps are changing. We are no
longer dependent on one single computer for everything.

The current workflow for such a situation would be to export to XML, import it on the device you will use, export again when finished, and then finally import the new XML file on your "main" computer (probably a good idea to just delete the old version you had, to prevent confusion). Sure, it's not the most fun workflow, but at least you will have backups _everywhere_. Don't forget to time-stamp the filenames, though.
 

Technology is bypassing Gramps.

That said, I wouldn't disagree with this statement. As Benny said in the previous mail, a sql backend is being developed. Unfortunately, there aren't enough developers with sql knowledge, and thus we are all using bsddb still.
 

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Re: Opening database

Tom Hughes
On 14/06/11 14:06, Vladimir Perić wrote:

> That said, I wouldn't disagree with this statement. As Benny said in the
> previous mail, a sql backend is being developed. Unfortunately, there
> aren't enough developers with sql knowledge, and thus we are all using
> bsddb still.

The SQL backend in question was sqlite though, so although it might
allow multiple programs on the same machine to access it at the same
time (not sure about that to be honest) it certainly won't allow
networked access in the way that a more general SQL backend using
PostgreSQL or MySQL would.

Tom

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Re: Opening database

Benny Malengier


2011/6/14 Tom Hughes <[hidden email]>
On 14/06/11 14:06, Vladimir Perić wrote:

> That said, I wouldn't disagree with this statement. As Benny said in the
> previous mail, a sql backend is being developed. Unfortunately, there
> aren't enough developers with sql knowledge, and thus we are all using
> bsddb still.

The SQL backend in question was sqlite though, so although it might
allow multiple programs on the same machine to access it at the same
time (not sure about that to be honest) it certainly won't allow
networked access in the way that a more general SQL backend using
PostgreSQL or MySQL would.

For home users, networked storage would be too slow with any desktop app. Yes, google, MS, Yahoo, ..., can give you great response times, but whereever you host a gramps database would be quite a bit slower. Also, you are not connected everywhere.

So, for the near future, a portable file to store things to that avoids the import/export step as needed now with gramps xml is the next best thing. Sqlite can provide that. However, if it will be useful is another thing. It would be like working on a word document from different computers, and mailing/copying the doc file around. Experience learns this is not the greatest solution, it only is marginally better than mail the xml file and import/export.

You might be better of with Gramps as it is today, but use a 2GB usb key to store the family trees on. Faster access, and portable by unplugging and putting it in the other computer. Just carefull not to unplug to soon as the family tree would be toast in that case.
 
As to the tablet and phone form factor. It is not feasible to do what Gramps does over a network, the app would have the be completely rewritten. Eg, a person view with only the names to avoid sending all data over the network, and even then, perhaps only work in chunks.
The GUI to be finger friendly would also have to be rewritten. So even if Gramps was available for your tablet/phone, it would not be the gramps you use on the desktop.

Hence, I do come full circle, and think for an average user, a service like dropbox, ubuntu one (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/Windows) where you sync files, is the easiest, even if you work with a sqlite based database. Sqlite would just make it safe to do so, current bsddb does not officially support such use.

Most core developers have extensive knowledge of SQL databases, that is not the thing that holds support for SQL back. What holds it back is the larger support/maintain/test cost for probably marginal gains (in the sense that the advanced user would use it, but he actually can already do that today if he is careful).

Benny

Tom

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Re: Opening database

Tom Hughes
On 14/06/11 15:25, Benny Malengier wrote:

> 2011/6/14 Tom Hughes <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>     The SQL backend in question was sqlite though, so although it might
>     allow multiple programs on the same machine to access it at the same
>     time (not sure about that to be honest) it certainly won't allow
>     networked access in the way that a more general SQL backend using
>     PostgreSQL or MySQL would.
>
> For home users, networked storage would be too slow with any desktop
> app. Yes, google, MS, Yahoo, ..., can give you great response times, but
> whereever you host a gramps database would be quite a bit slower. Also,
> you are not connected everywhere.

Oh sure - it would be fine for the case where I've left gramps running
on my desktop and want to look something up from my laptop in another
part of the house though.

It would likely even be fine across my VPN link from work, and it might
even sometimes be usable across a VPN link from my laptop when out and
about, though I'll admit that those are more in the line of power user
use cases ;-)

> You might be better of with Gramps as it is today, but use a 2GB usb key
> to store the family trees on. Faster access, and portable by unplugging
> and putting it in the other computer. Just carefull not to unplug to
> soon as the family tree would be toast in that case.

Yeah. My problem is that I tend to leave it running on my desktop at
home for weeks (or months) at a time. Partly because it's relatively
slow to start I guess so if that was faster then I might be more
inclined to shut it down.

> As to the tablet and phone form factor. It is not feasible to do what
> Gramps does over a network, the app would have the be completely
> rewritten. Eg, a person view with only the names to avoid sending all
> data over the network, and even then, perhaps only work in chunks.
> The GUI to be finger friendly would also have to be rewritten. So even
> if Gramps was available for your tablet/phone, it would not be the
> gramps you use on the desktop.

Well I was imagining that it would only be fetching the data that it
actually needed for the current view sure. Obviously that's worst for
browsing one of the lists where you need to fetch a relatively large
amount of data compared to something like the relationship view where
you just need to fetch one person and their parents/siblings/children.

> Most core developers have extensive knowledge of SQL databases, that is
> not the thing that holds support for SQL back. What holds it back is the
> larger support/maintain/test cost for probably marginal gains (in the
> sense that the advanced user would use it, but he actually can already
> do that today if he is careful).

Oh sure I realise it's difficult.

As a power user I'd love the ability it would give me to query the
database in novel ways from outside gramps, to connect from multiple
clients at once, etc but I understand that many people would never use
that sort of functionality and would want the "easy to setup" solution
of sqlite.

Tom

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Re: Opening database

DS Blank
In reply to this post by Tom Hughes
On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 9:23 AM, Tom Hughes <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 14/06/11 14:06, Vladimir Perić wrote:
>
>> That said, I wouldn't disagree with this statement. As Benny said in the
>> previous mail, a sql backend is being developed. Unfortunately, there
>> aren't enough developers with sql knowledge, and thus we are all using
>> bsddb still.
>
> The SQL backend in question was sqlite though, so although it might
> allow multiple programs on the same machine to access it at the same
> time (not sure about that to be honest) it certainly won't allow
> networked access in the way that a more general SQL backend using
> PostgreSQL or MySQL would.

There is interest from a few developers in allowing an optional
SQL-based backend. The idea is not limited to just sqlite. The issue
is keeping the current infrastructure in place so that reports and the
rest of Gramps will continue to work regardless of backend. We have
some ideas and I hope that we can make some experiments to test the
viability of these plans this year.

-Doug

> Tom
>
> --
> Tom Hughes ([hidden email])
> http://compton.nu/
>
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Re: Opening database

Billie Walsh
In reply to this post by Benny Malengier
On 06/14/2011 09:25 AM, Benny Malengier wrote:

>
>
> 2011/6/14 Tom Hughes <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>
>     On 14/06/11 14:06, Vladimir Perić wrote:
>
>      > That said, I wouldn't disagree with this statement. As Benny said
>     in the
>      > previous mail, a sql backend is being developed. Unfortunately, there
>      > aren't enough developers with sql knowledge, and thus we are all
>     using
>      > bsddb still.
>
>     The SQL backend in question was sqlite though, so although it might
>     allow multiple programs on the same machine to access it at the same
>     time (not sure about that to be honest) it certainly won't allow
>     networked access in the way that a more general SQL backend using
>     PostgreSQL or MySQL would.
>
>
> For home users, networked storage would be too slow with any desktop
> app. Yes, google, MS, Yahoo, ..., can give you great response times, but
> whereever you host a gramps database would be quite a bit slower. Also,
> you are not connected everywhere.
>
> So, for the near future, a portable file to store things to that avoids
> the import/export step as needed now with gramps xml is the next best
> thing. Sqlite can provide that. However, if it will be useful is another
> thing. It would be like working on a word document from different
> computers, and mailing/copying the doc file around. Experience learns
> this is not the greatest solution, it only is marginally better than
> mail the xml file and import/export.
>
> You might be better of with Gramps as it is today, but use a 2GB usb key
> to store the family trees on. Faster access, and portable by unplugging
> and putting it in the other computer. Just carefull not to unplug to
> soon as the family tree would be toast in that case.
>
> As to the tablet and phone form factor. It is not feasible to do what
> Gramps does over a network, the app would have the be completely
> rewritten. Eg, a person view with only the names to avoid sending all
> data over the network, and even then, perhaps only work in chunks.
> The GUI to be finger friendly would also have to be rewritten. So even
> if Gramps was available for your tablet/phone, it would not be the
> gramps you use on the desktop.
>
> Hence, I do come full circle, and think for an average user, a service
> like dropbox, ubuntu one (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/Windows)
> where you sync files, is the easiest, even if you work with a sqlite
> based database. Sqlite would just make it safe to do so, current bsddb
> does not officially support such use.
>
> Most core developers have extensive knowledge of SQL databases, that is
> not the thing that holds support for SQL back. What holds it back is the
> larger support/maintain/test cost for probably marginal gains (in the
> sense that the advanced user would use it, but he actually can already
> do that today if he is careful).
>
> Benny
>
>
>     Tom

I don't know much about database stuff like SQL, but I think I
understand a little of what your saying.

What I would like is to use something like Dropbox to keep the database
on each computer synced. Just store the database in Dropbox. Each device
has access to it's version of the database offline and when connected to
the internet it automatically syncs to the current version on whatever
machine is running. It would work because I only make changes on one
machine at any given time.

Before I go to the research center I connect my netbook and make sure
all files are up to date and the battery is fully charged. Go to the
research center and work on my research notes. Come home and connect my
netbook to the home network and the files are synced. I now have the
latest information on my desktop. Plan a trip and connect all my travel
machines to make sure all updates are done and batteries charged. When
we get to our destination I set up our network [ we have a router and
broadband card that we take with us. ] in the hotel room and set up my
laptop. Go do whatever research I'm planning and come back to the room
and connect my netbook to the network and the laptop is synced. Get back
home and start my desktop and the laptop or netbook and the desktop is
synced automatically.

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