Order of siblings across page in family lines graph

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Order of siblings across page in family lines graph

Harvey Nimmo
Dear Gramps users,

does anyone know what determines the order of siblings across the page
in the family lines graph?

I have, for example a family with 6 children, ordered in the database
(i.e. in the 'families' view) as 1,2,3,4,5,6 in the order of their birth
dates. Their ids are also in that order.

However, in the family line graph they come out (from left to right)
5,3,1,6,4,2.  I can't make rhyme nor reason from that. How can I change
it to be more 'logical'?

Greetings

Harvey


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Re: Order of siblings across page in family lines graph

Paul Franklin-5
http://www.gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=2635
would seem to be a similar problem, for a related report.

It has 70-some comments and I didn't read them all but
it would seem a patch was proposed to fix the problem
but was never put into gramps, for whatever reason.

Note that I am only observing this, not proposing anything.


On 6/18/13, Harvey Nimmo <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Dear Gramps users,
>
> does anyone know what determines the order of siblings across the page
> in the family lines graph?
>
> I have, for example a family with 6 children, ordered in the database
> (i.e. in the 'families' view) as 1,2,3,4,5,6 in the order of their birth
> dates. Their ids are also in that order.
>
> However, in the family line graph they come out (from left to right)
> 5,3,1,6,4,2.  I can't make rhyme nor reason from that. How can I change
> it to be more 'logical'?
>
> Greetings
>
> Harvey
>
>
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> This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows:
>
> Build for Windows Store.
>
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Re: [Gramps-devel] Order of siblings across page in family lines graph

jerome
As far as remember it was a large change just for ordering children: multiple pass on runtime and harder maintenance.

Maybe such design limitation should be rather fixed with a complete plugin rewrite? Or to get a generic method for ordering children into any plugin (report, gramplet, tool, others).

http://www.gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=3602

--- En date de : Mer 19.6.13, Paul Franklin <[hidden email]> a écrit :

> De: Paul Franklin <[hidden email]>
> Objet: Re: [Gramps-devel] [Gramps-users] Order of siblings across page in family lines graph
> À: "Harvey Nimmo" <[hidden email]>
> Cc: [hidden email], [hidden email]
> Date: Mercredi 19 juin 2013, 0h11
> http://www.gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=2635
> would seem to be a similar problem, for a related report.
>
> It has 70-some comments and I didn't read them all but
> it would seem a patch was proposed to fix the problem
> but was never put into gramps, for whatever reason.
>
> Note that I am only observing this, not proposing anything.
>
>
> On 6/18/13, Harvey Nimmo <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > Dear Gramps users,
> >
> > does anyone know what determines the order of siblings
> across the page
> > in the family lines graph?
> >
> > I have, for example a family with 6 children, ordered
> in the database
> > (i.e. in the 'families' view) as 1,2,3,4,5,6 in the
> order of their birth
> > dates. Their ids are also in that order.
> >
> > However, in the family line graph they come out (from
> left to right)
> > 5,3,1,6,4,2.  I can't make rhyme nor reason from
> that. How can I change
> > it to be more 'logical'?
> >
> > Greetings
> >
> > Harvey
> >
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows:
> >
> > Build for Windows Store.
> >
> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev
> > _______________________________________________
> > Gramps-users mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
> >
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
> Build for Windows Store.
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NdK
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Re: [Gramps-devel] Order of siblings across page in family lines graph

NdK
Il 19/06/2013 10:41, jerome ha scritto:

> As far as remember it was a large change just for ordering children: multiple pass on runtime and harder maintenance.
It could be even worse, since it impacts ex-spouses too. At least I
could notice that, with my uncle U that's been married 2 times with W1
and W2 I can have any of:
- W1 U W2
- W1 W2 U
- U W2 W1
And even, in some reports, a person from a different family is put
between brothers or between mother and father of another family (and
that one *might* be a bug in dot, since it leads to non-optimal graphs).

Probably a more generic patch is the way to go to allow further
optimization.

BYtE,
 Diego.

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Re: [Gramps-devel] Order of siblings across page in family lines graph

Carey

Order is a hard thing, because even if the order "makes sense" it might not be what the user wants, especially for reports where there is something they are trying to communicate, which may differ from "usual."

I am quite pleased with GRAMPS ability to let me move events around in the list so if all I have for "birth" and "baptism" are the year, I can put the birth first. If I care. I don't usually care unless I'm going to show somebody. 

I have NO idea how GRAMPS is built, so it might not be practical, but could GRAMPS remember an order of IDs for a list in a particular context? Of course the default order would not require this. I don't know if it would be easy or hard to capture an ID for the context.

For example, if I am looking at a family, I might want the children in birth order, or birth order within sex (when checking for cultural naming patterns.)  I would be happy to be able to set my own order manually if it would come back that way. And a "Reset" would be handy to delete my manual efforts.

How to connect this screen work to a report is another issue that might make it impractical.

But if it could work, anything that wanted to display an ordered list could pass the context ID and the list of element IDs and the order finder would return the list in the user's order or let the caller know there is nothing. A list with new elements since the manual ordering was set would have the new items put at the end.

Nothing would change if a custom order wasn't needed. And if it was, it's the user's problem to maintain it.

Carey

www.parkswhistles.com
Sent from my Android Nexus 7

On Jun 19, 2013 8:06 AM, "NdK" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Il 19/06/2013 10:41, jerome ha scritto:

> As far as remember it was a large change just for ordering children: multiple pass on runtime and harder maintenance.
It could be even worse, since it impacts ex-spouses too. At least I
could notice that, with my uncle U that's been married 2 times with W1
and W2 I can have any of:
- W1 U W2
- W1 W2 U
- U W2 W1
And even, in some reports, a person from a different family is put
between brothers or between mother and father of another family (and
that one *might* be a bug in dot, since it leads to non-optimal graphs).

Probably a more generic patch is the way to go to allow further
optimization.

BYtE,
 Diego.

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Re: [Gramps-devel] Order of siblings across page in family lines graph

Harvey Nimmo
In reply to this post by NdK
If I am not mistaken, the ordering and placement on the page is made
more on aesthetic grounds, e.g. to avoid having lines crossing, rather
than on the more prosaic factual basis (...and I must say the current
layout is always rather pleasing to look at!)
 
On 19/06/13 14:04, NdK wrote:

> Il 19/06/2013 10:41, jerome ha scritto:
>
>> As far as remember it was a large change just for ordering children: multiple pass on runtime and harder maintenance.
> It could be even worse, since it impacts ex-spouses too. At least I
> could notice that, with my uncle U that's been married 2 times with W1
> and W2 I can have any of:
> - W1 U W2
> - W1 W2 U
> - U W2 W1
> And even, in some reports, a person from a different family is put
> between brothers or between mother and father of another family (and
> that one *might* be a bug in dot, since it leads to non-optimal graphs).
>
> Probably a more generic patch is the way to go to allow further
> optimization.
>
> BYtE,
>  Diego.
>
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>
> Build for Windows Store.
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> [hidden email]
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Re: [Gramps-devel] Order of siblings across page in family lines graph

Harvey Nimmo
In reply to this post by Carey
I would like that, i.e. being able to set an order on a given set of criteria!

On 19/06/13 15:10, Carey Parks wrote:

Order is a hard thing, because even if the order "makes sense" it might not be what the user wants, especially for reports where there is something they are trying to communicate, which may differ from "usual."

I am quite pleased with GRAMPS ability to let me move events around in the list so if all I have for "birth" and "baptism" are the year, I can put the birth first. If I care. I don't usually care unless I'm going to show somebody. 

I have NO idea how GRAMPS is built, so it might not be practical, but could GRAMPS remember an order of IDs for a list in a particular context? Of course the default order would not require this. I don't know if it would be easy or hard to capture an ID for the context.

For example, if I am looking at a family, I might want the children in birth order, or birth order within sex (when checking for cultural naming patterns.)  I would be happy to be able to set my own order manually if it would come back that way. And a "Reset" would be handy to delete my manual efforts.

How to connect this screen work to a report is another issue that might make it impractical.

But if it could work, anything that wanted to display an ordered list could pass the context ID and the list of element IDs and the order finder would return the list in the user's order or let the caller know there is nothing. A list with new elements since the manual ordering was set would have the new items put at the end.

Nothing would change if a custom order wasn't needed. And if it was, it's the user's problem to maintain it.

Carey

www.parkswhistles.com
Sent from my Android Nexus 7

On Jun 19, 2013 8:06 AM, "NdK" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Il 19/06/2013 10:41, jerome ha scritto:

> As far as remember it was a large change just for ordering children: multiple pass on runtime and harder maintenance.
It could be even worse, since it impacts ex-spouses too. At least I
could notice that, with my uncle U that's been married 2 times with W1
and W2 I can have any of:
- W1 U W2
- W1 W2 U
- U W2 W1
And even, in some reports, a person from a different family is put
between brothers or between mother and father of another family (and
that one *might* be a bug in dot, since it leads to non-optimal graphs).

Probably a more generic patch is the way to go to allow further
optimization.

BYtE,
 Diego.

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Re: [Gramps-devel] Order of siblings across page in family lines graph

Hivernat Emmanuel
In reply to this post by jerome
From my experience the order in the graph is the same as in the family



you can change it with the up and down arrow

Manu



Le 19/06/2013 10:41, jerome a écrit :
As far as remember it was a large change just for ordering children: multiple pass on runtime and harder maintenance.

Maybe such design limitation should be rather fixed with a complete plugin rewrite? Or to get a generic method for ordering children into any plugin (report, gramplet, tool, others).

http://www.gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=3602

--- En date de : Mer 19.6.13, Paul Franklin [hidden email] a écrit :

De: Paul Franklin [hidden email]
Objet: Re: [Gramps-devel] [Gramps-users] Order of siblings across page in family lines graph
À: "Harvey Nimmo" [hidden email]
Cc: [hidden email], [hidden email]
Date: Mercredi 19 juin 2013, 0h11
http://www.gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=2635
would seem to be a similar problem, for a related report.

It has 70-some comments and I didn't read them all but
it would seem a patch was proposed to fix the problem
but was never put into gramps, for whatever reason.

Note that I am only observing this, not proposing anything.


On 6/18/13, Harvey Nimmo [hidden email]
wrote:
Dear Gramps users,

does anyone know what determines the order of siblings
across the page
in the family lines graph?

I have, for example a family with 6 children, ordered
in the database
(i.e. in the 'families' view) as 1,2,3,4,5,6 in the
order of their birth
dates. Their ids are also in that order.

However, in the family line graph they come out (from
left to right)
5,3,1,6,4,2.  I can't make rhyme nor reason from
that. How can I change
it to be more 'logical'?

Greetings

Harvey



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Re: [Gramps-devel] Order of siblings across page in family lines graph

NdK
In reply to this post by Harvey Nimmo
Il 19/06/2013 15:21, Harvey Nimmo ha scritto:

> If I am not mistaken, the ordering and placement on the page is made
> more on aesthetic grounds, e.g. to avoid having lines crossing, rather
> than on the more prosaic factual basis (...and I must say the current
> layout is always rather pleasing to look at!)
That's why I wrote that this one might be a bug in dot:
>> And even, in some reports, a person from a different family is put
>> between brothers or between mother and father of another family (and
>> that one *might* be a bug in dot, since it leads to non-optimal graphs).

Simply swapping the nodes would avoid crossing lines.

Maybe using subgraphs or clusters could help, but that would require
extensive testing and (most probably) a lot of code changes.

BYtE,
 Diego.

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Re: [Gramps-devel] Order of siblings across page in family lines graph

NdK
In reply to this post by Hivernat Emmanuel
Il 19/06/2013 19:29, Hivernat Emmanuel ha scritto:

> From my experience the order in the graph is the same as in the family
> you can change it with the up and down arrow
Does not work always. If needed I can attach an example.

BYtE,
 Diego.

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Re: [Gramps-devel] Order of siblings across page in family lines graph

jerome
In reply to this post by Hivernat Emmanuel
It seems that there is specific behavior(s) on Family Lines and
Relationship Graph reports (graphviz based report). At least children
sequence is not specified in the dot file, which is the base for the
output file (formats).

By using 'trunk_r18454.patch' on feature request #2635 [1], you should
be able to fix this issue on Relationship Graph for Gramps 3.4.x. And/or
to generate a patch like this one for Family Lines ...

I just tried to update previous patch with a better python indentation
and according to current modules. If the problem is localized on dot
file (.gv) generated by these reports, I suggest to select .gv as output
file format, then to modify the content via scripts!

eg, we should be able to use subprocesses and commands under Mac or
Linux as workaround. Under Windows, a text editor can be an alternative.

http://www.gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=Howto:_Make_a_relationship_chart#Example_3.2C_Generating_the_graph_by_using_the_Graphviz_command_line_tool

Hourglass report (also based on graphviz) seems to take care of children
order set into Gramps.




[1] http://www.gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=2635


Le 19/06/2013 19:29, Hivernat Emmanuel a écrit :

>   From my experience the order in the graph is the same as in the family
>
>
>
> you can change it with the up and down arrow
>
> Manu
>
>
>
> Le 19/06/2013 10:41, jerome a écrit :
>> As far as remember it was a large change just for ordering children: multiple pass on runtime and harder maintenance.
>>
>> Maybe such design limitation should be rather fixed with a complete plugin rewrite? Or to get a generic method for ordering children into any plugin (report, gramplet, tool, others).
>>
>> http://www.gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=3602
>>
>> --- En date de : Mer 19.6.13, Paul Franklin<[hidden email]>  a écrit :
>>
>>> De: Paul Franklin<[hidden email]>
>>> Objet: Re: [Gramps-devel] [Gramps-users] Order of siblings across page in family lines graph
>>> À: "Harvey Nimmo"<[hidden email]>
>>> Cc:[hidden email],[hidden email]
>>> Date: Mercredi 19 juin 2013, 0h11
>>> http://www.gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=2635
>>> would seem to be a similar problem, for a related report.
>>>
>>> It has 70-some comments and I didn't read them all but
>>> it would seem a patch was proposed to fix the problem
>>> but was never put into gramps, for whatever reason.
>>>
>>> Note that I am only observing this, not proposing anything.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6/18/13, Harvey Nimmo<[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Dear Gramps users,
>>>>
>>>> does anyone know what determines the order of siblings
>>> across the page
>>>> in the family lines graph?
>>>>
>>>> I have, for example a family with 6 children, ordered
>>> in the database
>>>> (i.e. in the 'families' view) as 1,2,3,4,5,6 in the
>>> order of their birth
>>>> dates. Their ids are also in that order.
>>>>
>>>> However, in the family line graph they come out (from
>>> left to right)
>>>> 5,3,1,6,4,2.  I can't make rhyme nor reason from
>>> that. How can I change
>>>> it to be more 'logical'?
>>>>
>>>> Greetings
>>>>
>>>> Harvey
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows:
>>>>
>>>> Build for Windows Store.
>>>>
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>>>> [hidden email]
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>>>>
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>>>
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