Organizing Media Files

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Organizing Media Files

Peter (chamdo4ever)
I have hundreds of media files that I have accumulated over the years
and I have yet to incorporate them into Gramps. Now that I've finally
upgraded (smoothly and comfortably) to v.4.1.3 (on Ubuntu), I feel
that I should finally tackle this.

I know Enno has provided some helpful insight in the past (regarding
relative and absolute paths), but for someone starting from scratch,
what is any advice regarding best practices for organization of Gramps
media files?

I'm imagining one large folder called GrampsMedia and within that,
folders for Census Records, Birth Certificates, Marriage Certificates,
Death Certificates, etc. Or, should Birth / Marriage / Death all be in
one folder? What about photos of individuals and places -- a separate
folder for each or one large "Photos" folder?

Also, what naming conventions do people use for organizing the files
within the folders? LastName_FirstName_2015-05-07_Birth.jpg ?

I'm very curious as to what others do, and what they might do
differently if they had to start from scratch again.

Many thanks,

Peter

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Re: Organizing Media Files

Pat Clark
On 08/05/15 09:21, Peter wrote:

> I have hundreds of media files that I have accumulated over the years
> and I have yet to incorporate them into Gramps. Now that I've finally
> upgraded (smoothly and comfortably) to v.4.1.3 (on Ubuntu), I feel
> that I should finally tackle this.
>
> I know Enno has provided some helpful insight in the past (regarding
> relative and absolute paths), but for someone starting from scratch,
> what is any advice regarding best practices for organization of Gramps
> media files?
>
> I'm imagining one large folder called GrampsMedia and within that,
> folders for Census Records, Birth Certificates, Marriage Certificates,
> Death Certificates, etc. Or, should Birth / Marriage / Death all be in
> one folder? What about photos of individuals and places -- a separate
> folder for each or one large "Photos" folder?
>
> Also, what naming conventions do people use for organizing the files
> within the folders? LastName_FirstName_2015-05-07_Birth.jpg ?
>
> I'm very curious as to what others do, and what they might do
> differently if they had to start from scratch again.
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Peter
>
I think the best thing is to sit down and sketch out a folder hierarchy
before you start moving things around.

I have a folder called 'GrampsPics' containing folders such as
'Registers' which contains BMD certs etc in their appropriate (for me)
folders Birth, Baptism, Marriage, Banns, Death, Burial. Some of these in
turn have subfolders for various family branches.
Other main folders are 'War', 'Places', 'Portraits' and so on. It's up
to you to set it up to suit your research.

You can always add more folders as needed, but remember that if you move
media from one folder to another, you must alter the path for that
individual file in Gramps itself.

Hope I've given you some ideas.

Pat

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Re: Organizing Media Files

Gazza
I have only recently started my genealogy journey and I have decided to
save images in folders named 'SURNAME' within a 'Gramps Media' folder. I
then name the files eg.
Surname-Firstname-Birth-Certificate-Date.jpg
Surname-Firstname-Marriage-Certificate-Date.jpg (where Surname is the
name of the husband)
I found I had to add the date as there seems to have been a shortage of
names at times in history :-) and a name will be recycled through
generations.

This method allows me to sort the files by name in my file manager and
easily see all images I have associated with a person.

I hesitated when it came to images associated with a married woman but I
made the call to store them under the name indicated in the document or
image, or her name at that time of her life. So an unmarried females
images would be stored under her maiden name until she married but
images relating to her after (and including) her marriage would be
stored under her new surname, and likewise if she married again. This is
much the same as I do with my paper files where I file an unmarried
persons details in their parents family file and once/if they marry I
create a new family file with their details included from that point in
time on.

So, this is how I do things. It might sound logical or it might be utter
nonsense I don't know.

Cheers
Garry

On 08/05/15 08:29, Pat Clark wrote:

> On 08/05/15 09:21, Peter wrote:
>> I have hundreds of media files that I have accumulated over the years
>> and I have yet to incorporate them into Gramps. Now that I've finally
>> upgraded (smoothly and comfortably) to v.4.1.3 (on Ubuntu), I feel
>> that I should finally tackle this.
>>
>> I know Enno has provided some helpful insight in the past (regarding
>> relative and absolute paths), but for someone starting from scratch,
>> what is any advice regarding best practices for organization of Gramps
>> media files?
>>
>> I'm imagining one large folder called GrampsMedia and within that,
>> folders for Census Records, Birth Certificates, Marriage Certificates,
>> Death Certificates, etc. Or, should Birth / Marriage / Death all be in
>> one folder? What about photos of individuals and places -- a separate
>> folder for each or one large "Photos" folder?
>>
>> Also, what naming conventions do people use for organizing the files
>> within the folders? LastName_FirstName_2015-05-07_Birth.jpg ?
>>
>> I'm very curious as to what others do, and what they might do
>> differently if they had to start from scratch again.
>>
>> Many thanks,
>>
>> Peter
>>
> I think the best thing is to sit down and sketch out a folder hierarchy
> before you start moving things around.
>
> I have a folder called 'GrampsPics' containing folders such as
> 'Registers' which contains BMD certs etc in their appropriate (for me)
> folders Birth, Baptism, Marriage, Banns, Death, Burial. Some of these in
> turn have subfolders for various family branches.
> Other main folders are 'War', 'Places', 'Portraits' and so on. It's up
> to you to set it up to suit your research.
>
> You can always add more folders as needed, but remember that if you move
> media from one folder to another, you must alter the path for that
> individual file in Gramps itself.
>
> Hope I've given you some ideas.
>
> Pat
>
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> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
>


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Re: Organizing Media Files

Alain AUPEIX
In reply to this post by Peter (chamdo4ever)
Le 08. 05. 15 01:51, Peter a écrit :
I'm imagining one large folder called GrampsMedia
Mine is gramps_media :)
 and within that, folders for Census Records, Birth Certificates,
Marriage Certificates, Death Certificates, etc.
It' what I have
 Or, should Birth / Marriage / Death all be in
one folder? What about photos of individuals and places -- a separate
folder for each or one large "Photos" folder?

Also, what naming conventions do people use for organizing the files
within the folders? LastName_FirstName_2015-05-07_Birth.jpg ?
Due to my choice, my images are simply named :

Nom, Prénom - acte de naissance - 1753-04-21.png
Nom, Prénom - acte de décès - 1758-02-01.png
...

Nom, Prénom => like this is seen in Gramps, or reports
So, I have, in the explorer (nautilus), the images ordered by name, and date

Notice if the images were in the same folder, except the fact that the number would be larger, the images were ordered by name, acte and date. The better in this case ought to look like that

Nom, Prénom - 1753-04-21 - acte de naissance.png
Nom, Prénom - 1758-02-01 - acte de décès.png

and the registers would be ordered by name, date, and obviously by event

I obviously have other folders, for groups scenes, identity, marriages groups, coats of arms, houses, thumbnails for book, , various documents

I finally think it's a logical way to sort images, and searches are easiest to do.

A+
--

Alain Aupeix
http://jujuland.pagesperso-orange.fr/
http://pissobi-lacassagne.pagesperso-orange.fr/

U.buntu 12.04 | G.ramps 3.4.8-1 | H.arbour 3.2.0dev (2015-05-07 11:27) | HbIDE (Rev.316) | Five.Linux (r143) | Hw.Gui (2396)

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Re: Organizing Media Files

ACProctor
In reply to this post by Gazza
Sorting files independently of the organising software is the big headache
here. Ideally, that software (e.g. Gramps) should give you ample tools to
manipulate, browse, sort, etc., your media without having to know where they
physically are.

A really smart way to organise your media is via their provenance (see
http://parallax-viewpoint.blogspot.com/2015/01/hierarchical-sources.html),
but few people outside of archives venture there.

    Tony Proctor

----- Original Message -----
From: "Garry Seeley" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, May 08, 2015 6:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] Organizing Media Files


>I have only recently started my genealogy journey and I have decided to
> save images in folders named 'SURNAME' within a 'Gramps Media' folder. I
> then name the files eg.
> Surname-Firstname-Birth-Certificate-Date.jpg
> Surname-Firstname-Marriage-Certificate-Date.jpg (where Surname is the
> name of the husband)
> I found I had to add the date as there seems to have been a shortage of
> names at times in history :-) and a name will be recycled through
> generations.
>
> This method allows me to sort the files by name in my file manager and
> easily see all images I have associated with a person.
>
> I hesitated when it came to images associated with a married woman but I
> made the call to store them under the name indicated in the document or
> image, or her name at that time of her life. So an unmarried females
> images would be stored under her maiden name until she married but
> images relating to her after (and including) her marriage would be
> stored under her new surname, and likewise if she married again. This is
> much the same as I do with my paper files where I file an unmarried
> persons details in their parents family file and once/if they marry I
> create a new family file with their details included from that point in
> time on.
>
> So, this is how I do things. It might sound logical or it might be utter
> nonsense I don't know.
>
> Cheers
> Garry
>
> On 08/05/15 08:29, Pat Clark wrote:
>> On 08/05/15 09:21, Peter wrote:
>>> I have hundreds of media files that I have accumulated over the years
>>> and I have yet to incorporate them into Gramps. Now that I've finally
>>> upgraded (smoothly and comfortably) to v.4.1.3 (on Ubuntu), I feel
>>> that I should finally tackle this.
>>>
>>> I know Enno has provided some helpful insight in the past (regarding
>>> relative and absolute paths), but for someone starting from scratch,
>>> what is any advice regarding best practices for organization of Gramps
>>> media files?
>>>
>>> I'm imagining one large folder called GrampsMedia and within that,
>>> folders for Census Records, Birth Certificates, Marriage Certificates,
>>> Death Certificates, etc. Or, should Birth / Marriage / Death all be in
>>> one folder? What about photos of individuals and places -- a separate
>>> folder for each or one large "Photos" folder?
>>>
>>> Also, what naming conventions do people use for organizing the files
>>> within the folders? LastName_FirstName_2015-05-07_Birth.jpg ?
>>>
>>> I'm very curious as to what others do, and what they might do
>>> differently if they had to start from scratch again.
>>>
>>> Many thanks,
>>>
>>> Peter
>>>
>> I think the best thing is to sit down and sketch out a folder hierarchy
>> before you start moving things around.
>>
>> I have a folder called 'GrampsPics' containing folders such as
>> 'Registers' which contains BMD certs etc in their appropriate (for me)
>> folders Birth, Baptism, Marriage, Banns, Death, Burial. Some of these in
>> turn have subfolders for various family branches.
>> Other main folders are 'War', 'Places', 'Portraits' and so on. It's up
>> to you to set it up to suit your research.
>>
>> You can always add more folders as needed, but remember that if you move
>> media from one folder to another, you must alter the path for that
>> individual file in Gramps itself.
>>
>> Hope I've given you some ideas.
>>
>> Pat
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications
>> Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights
>> Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight.
>> http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gramps-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
>>
>
>
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> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users 


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Re: Organizing Media Files

lynches155
In reply to this post by Peter (chamdo4ever)
On 08/05/2015 00:51, Peter wrote:

> I have hundreds of media files that I have accumulated over the years
> and I have yet to incorporate them into Gramps. Now that I've finally
> upgraded (smoothly and comfortably) to v.4.1.3 (on Ubuntu), I feel
> that I should finally tackle this.
>
> I know Enno has provided some helpful insight in the past (regarding
> relative and absolute paths), but for someone starting from scratch,
> what is any advice regarding best practices for organization of Gramps
> media files?
>
>
I have thousands of media files, and simply arrange them in folders
according to where the file came from. So I have folders called
ancestry, findmypast etc for files downloaded from websites. I have
separate folders for photographs from visits to archives (one folder for
each visit). When other researchers share files with me, I use a folder
with their name.

The advantage of this scheme is that it is very quick when I download an
image from a website. I don't usually bother renaming files, I just keep
the default name supplied by the website (except of course for those
websites where all downloads have the same name).

Mary

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Re: Organizing Media Files

DS Blank
In reply to this post by ACProctor
On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 3:53 AM, Tony Proctor <[hidden email]> wrote:
Sorting files independently of the organising software is the big headache
here. Ideally, that software (e.g. Gramps) should give you ample tools to
manipulate, browse, sort, etc., your media without having to know where they
physically are.

I agree. I only have a few hundred media items, but I keep them all in one folder (~/.gramps/media).  The idea that Gramps allows the image to be anywhere on the filesystem is very flexible, but a nightmare for making sure you have complete backups, or moving the collection to a different computer.

Gramps isn't yet a very good media organizer, but I think we can do a few small, simple things to make it better.

For example, if you drop a bunch of media files into a folder, are you certain that they are all linked to something in Gramps? You can use Tools -> Media Manager -> select "add images not included in database" to make sure that they are.

Currently it works by looking at folders that are used already. If you have a new folder, first add one image to Gramps from that folder, and then run the tool. Of course, you'll need to next associate the images with the right items.

I think the gramps developers agreed a while back that we would allow users to specify a special folder on which to do some media management-type functions. For example, you could add an image to *Gramps*, and it will put it in the right place, rather than having to add it to the filesystem first. I hope to help develop ideas like that.
 

A really smart way to organise your media is via their provenance (see
http://parallax-viewpoint.blogspot.com/2015/01/hierarchical-sources.html),
but few people outside of archives venture there.

Interesting idea... I wonder how much of people's media collections would benefit from being seen as such a hierarchy? 

-Doug
 

    Tony Proctor

----- Original Message -----
From: "Garry Seeley" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, May 08, 2015 6:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] Organizing Media Files


>I have only recently started my genealogy journey and I have decided to
> save images in folders named 'SURNAME' within a 'Gramps Media' folder. I
> then name the files eg.
> Surname-Firstname-Birth-Certificate-Date.jpg
> Surname-Firstname-Marriage-Certificate-Date.jpg (where Surname is the
> name of the husband)
> I found I had to add the date as there seems to have been a shortage of
> names at times in history :-) and a name will be recycled through
> generations.
>
> This method allows me to sort the files by name in my file manager and
> easily see all images I have associated with a person.
>
> I hesitated when it came to images associated with a married woman but I
> made the call to store them under the name indicated in the document or
> image, or her name at that time of her life. So an unmarried females
> images would be stored under her maiden name until she married but
> images relating to her after (and including) her marriage would be
> stored under her new surname, and likewise if she married again. This is
> much the same as I do with my paper files where I file an unmarried
> persons details in their parents family file and once/if they marry I
> create a new family file with their details included from that point in
> time on.
>
> So, this is how I do things. It might sound logical or it might be utter
> nonsense I don't know.
>
> Cheers
> Garry
>
> On 08/05/15 08:29, Pat Clark wrote:
>> On 08/05/15 09:21, Peter wrote:
>>> I have hundreds of media files that I have accumulated over the years
>>> and I have yet to incorporate them into Gramps. Now that I've finally
>>> upgraded (smoothly and comfortably) to v.4.1.3 (on Ubuntu), I feel
>>> that I should finally tackle this.
>>>
>>> I know Enno has provided some helpful insight in the past (regarding
>>> relative and absolute paths), but for someone starting from scratch,
>>> what is any advice regarding best practices for organization of Gramps
>>> media files?
>>>
>>> I'm imagining one large folder called GrampsMedia and within that,
>>> folders for Census Records, Birth Certificates, Marriage Certificates,
>>> Death Certificates, etc. Or, should Birth / Marriage / Death all be in
>>> one folder? What about photos of individuals and places -- a separate
>>> folder for each or one large "Photos" folder?
>>>
>>> Also, what naming conventions do people use for organizing the files
>>> within the folders? LastName_FirstName_2015-05-07_Birth.jpg ?
>>>
>>> I'm very curious as to what others do, and what they might do
>>> differently if they had to start from scratch again.
>>>
>>> Many thanks,
>>>
>>> Peter
>>>
>> I think the best thing is to sit down and sketch out a folder hierarchy
>> before you start moving things around.
>>
>> I have a folder called 'GrampsPics' containing folders such as
>> 'Registers' which contains BMD certs etc in their appropriate (for me)
>> folders Birth, Baptism, Marriage, Banns, Death, Burial. Some of these in
>> turn have subfolders for various family branches.
>> Other main folders are 'War', 'Places', 'Portraits' and so on. It's up
>> to you to set it up to suit your research.
>>
>> You can always add more folders as needed, but remember that if you move
>> media from one folder to another, you must alter the path for that
>> individual file in Gramps itself.
>>
>> Hope I've given you some ideas.
>>
>> Pat
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud
>> Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications
>> Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights
>> Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight.
>> http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gramps-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
>>
>
>
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Re: Organizing Media Files

ACProctor

I think everyone's collections would benefit from a provenance-based hierarchical organisation Doug. However, most people could not give up direct access to the images using the native O/S tools, such as when simply browsing file-system folders. DearMYRTLE, in one of her regular Monday Hangout-On-Air sessions, commented that her grandchildren would simply browse the files rather than go through the interface of an organising product.
 
It's a difficult problem. In principle, allowing the software to show you the media relevant to a family, or to a place, or part of a timeline, etc., would be much richer than just separate collections by surname.
 
Like Gramps, STEMMA can reference media files no matter where they are. If my own software always took care of any copying, sharing, or backups, then it could easily produce a list of the relevant media files. However, I now group my different provenance-based folders under a single "media root", just for the ease of using third-party software for copying and backups.
 
We could all learn a lot from how archives handle such things.
 
    Tony
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, May 08, 2015 1:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] Organizing Media Files

On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 3:53 AM, Tony Proctor <[hidden email]> wrote:
Sorting files independently of the organising software is the big headache
here. Ideally, that software (e.g. Gramps) should give you ample tools to
manipulate, browse, sort, etc., your media without having to know where they
physically are.

I agree. I only have a few hundred media items, but I keep them all in one folder (~/.gramps/media).  The idea that Gramps allows the image to be anywhere on the filesystem is very flexible, but a nightmare for making sure you have complete backups, or moving the collection to a different computer.

Gramps isn't yet a very good media organizer, but I think we can do a few small, simple things to make it better.

For example, if you drop a bunch of media files into a folder, are you certain that they are all linked to something in Gramps? You can use Tools -> Media Manager -> select "add images not included in database" to make sure that they are.

Currently it works by looking at folders that are used already. If you have a new folder, first add one image to Gramps from that folder, and then run the tool. Of course, you'll need to next associate the images with the right items.

I think the gramps developers agreed a while back that we would allow users to specify a special folder on which to do some media management-type functions. For example, you could add an image to *Gramps*, and it will put it in the right place, rather than having to add it to the filesystem first. I hope to help develop ideas like that.
 

A really smart way to organise your media is via their provenance (see
http://parallax-viewpoint.blogspot.com/2015/01/hierarchical-sources.html),
but few people outside of archives venture there.

Interesting idea... I wonder how much of people's media collections would benefit from being seen as such a hierarchy? 

-Doug
 

    Tony Proctor

----- Original Message -----
From: "Garry Seeley" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, May 08, 2015 6:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] Organizing Media Files


>I have only recently started my genealogy journey and I have decided to
> save images in folders named 'SURNAME' within a 'Gramps Media' folder. I
> then name the files eg.
> Surname-Firstname-Birth-Certificate-Date.jpg
> Surname-Firstname-Marriage-Certificate-Date.jpg (where Surname is the
> name of the husband)
> I found I had to add the date as there seems to have been a shortage of
> names at times in history :-) and a name will be recycled through
> generations.
>
> This method allows me to sort the files by name in my file manager and
> easily see all images I have associated with a person.
>
> I hesitated when it came to images associated with a married woman but I
> made the call to store them under the name indicated in the document or
> image, or her name at that time of her life. So an unmarried females
> images would be stored under her maiden name until she married but
> images relating to her after (and including) her marriage would be
> stored under her new surname, and likewise if she married again. This is
> much the same as I do with my paper files where I file an unmarried
> persons details in their parents family file and once/if they marry I
> create a new family file with their details included from that point in
> time on.
>
> So, this is how I do things. It might sound logical or it might be utter
> nonsense I don't know.
>
> Cheers
> Garry
>
> On 08/05/15 08:29, Pat Clark wrote:
>> On 08/05/15 09:21, Peter wrote:
>>> I have hundreds of media files that I have accumulated over the years
>>> and I have yet to incorporate them into Gramps. Now that I've finally
>>> upgraded (smoothly and comfortably) to v.4.1.3 (on Ubuntu), I feel
>>> that I should finally tackle this.
>>>
>>> I know Enno has provided some helpful insight in the past (regarding
>>> relative and absolute paths), but for someone starting from scratch,
>>> what is any advice regarding best practices for organization of Gramps
>>> media files?
>>>
>>> I'm imagining one large folder called GrampsMedia and within that,
>>> folders for Census Records, Birth Certificates, Marriage Certificates,
>>> Death Certificates, etc. Or, should Birth / Marriage / Death all be in
>>> one folder? What about photos of individuals and places -- a separate
>>> folder for each or one large "Photos" folder?
>>>
>>> Also, what naming conventions do people use for organizing the files
>>> within the folders? LastName_FirstName_2015-05-07_Birth.jpg ?
>>>
>>> I'm very curious as to what others do, and what they might do
>>> differently if they had to start from scratch again.
>>>
>>> Many thanks,
>>>
>>> Peter
>>>
>> I think the best thing is to sit down and sketch out a folder hierarchy
>> before you start moving things around.
>>
>> I have a folder called 'GrampsPics' containing folders such as
>> 'Registers' which contains BMD certs etc in their appropriate (for me)
>> folders Birth, Baptism, Marriage, Banns, Death, Burial. Some of these in
>> turn have subfolders for various family branches.
>> Other main folders are 'War', 'Places', 'Portraits' and so on. It's up
>> to you to set it up to suit your research.
>>
>> You can always add more folders as needed, but remember that if you move
>> media from one folder to another, you must alter the path for that
>> individual file in Gramps itself.
>>
>> Hope I've given you some ideas.
>>
>> Pat
>>
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>
>
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Re: Organizing Media Files

Gazza
In reply to this post by ACProctor
Definitely not a headache for me as I always like to know where my files
are and to be able to store, sort and name the files in their physical
location. I don't like to rely on software to manage my files. Simple
things like backing up or copying files can be problematic if I don't
know where they are stored.

Garry


On 08/05/15 15:53, Tony Proctor wrote:

> Sorting files independently of the organising software is the big
> headache here. Ideally, that software (e.g. Gramps) should give you
> ample tools to manipulate, browse, sort, etc., your media without
> having to know where they physically are.
>
> A really smart way to organise your media is via their provenance (see
> http://parallax-viewpoint.blogspot.com/2015/01/hierarchical-sources.html),
> but few people outside of archives venture there.
>
>    Tony Proctor
>


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Re: Organizing Media Files

DS Blank
On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 8:44 AM, Garry Seeley <[hidden email]> wrote:
Definitely not a headache for me as I always like to know where my files
are and to be able to store, sort and name the files in their physical
location. I don't like to rely on software to manage my files. Simple
things like backing up or copying files can be problematic if I don't
know where they are stored.

Any organizational functions added to Gramps would be optional, and would not force any user to change their workflow or system. When agreeing with Tony, I am suggesting additional functions in Gramps to provide those "ample tools". For example, "show me all media related to Mary Calvert and descendants". That would be difficult at the filesystem level.

And I completely agree about the need to know where the files are. Currently, users are forced to add the files to the file system first, then into gramps. We can solve this, and make sure that it continues to work for you as well.

-Doug
 

Garry


On 08/05/15 15:53, Tony Proctor wrote:
> Sorting files independently of the organising software is the big
> headache here. Ideally, that software (e.g. Gramps) should give you
> ample tools to manipulate, browse, sort, etc., your media without
> having to know where they physically are.
>
> A really smart way to organise your media is via their provenance (see
> http://parallax-viewpoint.blogspot.com/2015/01/hierarchical-sources.html),
> but few people outside of archives venture there.
>
>    Tony Proctor
>


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Re: Organizing Media Files

DS Blank
In reply to this post by ACProctor
On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 8:40 AM, Tony Proctor <[hidden email]> wrote:
I think everyone's collections would benefit from a provenance-based hierarchical organisation Doug.

Maybe... I guess this is an empirical question, and maybe some users can comment. What percentage of one's media files have a provenance relationship? Is that relationship flat (all pages from a single source), or hierarchical?
 
However, most people could not give up direct access to the images using the native O/S tools, such as when simply browsing file-system folders. DearMYRTLE, in one of her regular Monday Hangout-On-Air sessions, commented that her grandchildren would simply browse the files rather than go through the interface of an organising product.

Gramps developers wisely decided long ago to let the file system do what it does best. But it was also thought initially that Gramps should do nothing to help that management. 
 
 
It's a difficult problem. In principle, allowing the software to show you the media relevant to a family, or to a place, or part of a timeline, etc., would be much richer than just separate collections by surname.
 
Like Gramps, STEMMA can reference media files no matter where they are. If my own software always took care of any copying, sharing, or backups, then it could easily produce a list of the relevant media files. However, I now group my different provenance-based folders under a single "media root", just for the ease of using third-party software for copying and backups.

Me too. I use ~/.gramps/media because ~/.gramps is important to backup. (I had missed that important point when I first started using Gramps. Ouch.)

 
We could all learn a lot from how archives handle such things.

What kind of archives are you thinking?

-Doug 
 
    Tony
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, May 08, 2015 1:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] Organizing Media Files

On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 3:53 AM, Tony Proctor <[hidden email]> wrote:
Sorting files independently of the organising software is the big headache
here. Ideally, that software (e.g. Gramps) should give you ample tools to
manipulate, browse, sort, etc., your media without having to know where they
physically are.

I agree. I only have a few hundred media items, but I keep them all in one folder (~/.gramps/media).  The idea that Gramps allows the image to be anywhere on the filesystem is very flexible, but a nightmare for making sure you have complete backups, or moving the collection to a different computer.

Gramps isn't yet a very good media organizer, but I think we can do a few small, simple things to make it better.

For example, if you drop a bunch of media files into a folder, are you certain that they are all linked to something in Gramps? You can use Tools -> Media Manager -> select "add images not included in database" to make sure that they are.

Currently it works by looking at folders that are used already. If you have a new folder, first add one image to Gramps from that folder, and then run the tool. Of course, you'll need to next associate the images with the right items.

I think the gramps developers agreed a while back that we would allow users to specify a special folder on which to do some media management-type functions. For example, you could add an image to *Gramps*, and it will put it in the right place, rather than having to add it to the filesystem first. I hope to help develop ideas like that.
 

A really smart way to organise your media is via their provenance (see
http://parallax-viewpoint.blogspot.com/2015/01/hierarchical-sources.html),
but few people outside of archives venture there.

Interesting idea... I wonder how much of people's media collections would benefit from being seen as such a hierarchy? 

-Doug
 

    Tony Proctor

----- Original Message -----
From: "Garry Seeley" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, May 08, 2015 6:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] Organizing Media Files


>I have only recently started my genealogy journey and I have decided to
> save images in folders named 'SURNAME' within a 'Gramps Media' folder. I
> then name the files eg.
> Surname-Firstname-Birth-Certificate-Date.jpg
> Surname-Firstname-Marriage-Certificate-Date.jpg (where Surname is the
> name of the husband)
> I found I had to add the date as there seems to have been a shortage of
> names at times in history :-) and a name will be recycled through
> generations.
>
> This method allows me to sort the files by name in my file manager and
> easily see all images I have associated with a person.
>
> I hesitated when it came to images associated with a married woman but I
> made the call to store them under the name indicated in the document or
> image, or her name at that time of her life. So an unmarried females
> images would be stored under her maiden name until she married but
> images relating to her after (and including) her marriage would be
> stored under her new surname, and likewise if she married again. This is
> much the same as I do with my paper files where I file an unmarried
> persons details in their parents family file and once/if they marry I
> create a new family file with their details included from that point in
> time on.
>
> So, this is how I do things. It might sound logical or it might be utter
> nonsense I don't know.
>
> Cheers
> Garry
>
> On 08/05/15 08:29, Pat Clark wrote:
>> On 08/05/15 09:21, Peter wrote:
>>> I have hundreds of media files that I have accumulated over the years
>>> and I have yet to incorporate them into Gramps. Now that I've finally
>>> upgraded (smoothly and comfortably) to v.4.1.3 (on Ubuntu), I feel
>>> that I should finally tackle this.
>>>
>>> I know Enno has provided some helpful insight in the past (regarding
>>> relative and absolute paths), but for someone starting from scratch,
>>> what is any advice regarding best practices for organization of Gramps
>>> media files?
>>>
>>> I'm imagining one large folder called GrampsMedia and within that,
>>> folders for Census Records, Birth Certificates, Marriage Certificates,
>>> Death Certificates, etc. Or, should Birth / Marriage / Death all be in
>>> one folder? What about photos of individuals and places -- a separate
>>> folder for each or one large "Photos" folder?
>>>
>>> Also, what naming conventions do people use for organizing the files
>>> within the folders? LastName_FirstName_2015-05-07_Birth.jpg ?
>>>
>>> I'm very curious as to what others do, and what they might do
>>> differently if they had to start from scratch again.
>>>
>>> Many thanks,
>>>
>>> Peter
>>>
>> I think the best thing is to sit down and sketch out a folder hierarchy
>> before you start moving things around.
>>
>> I have a folder called 'GrampsPics' containing folders such as
>> 'Registers' which contains BMD certs etc in their appropriate (for me)
>> folders Birth, Baptism, Marriage, Banns, Death, Burial. Some of these in
>> turn have subfolders for various family branches.
>> Other main folders are 'War', 'Places', 'Portraits' and so on. It's up
>> to you to set it up to suit your research.
>>
>> You can always add more folders as needed, but remember that if you move
>> media from one folder to another, you must alter the path for that
>> individual file in Gramps itself.
>>
>> Hope I've given you some ideas.
>>
>> Pat
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications
>> Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights
>> Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight.
>> http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gramps-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
>>
>
>
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Re: Organizing Media Files

Nick Hall
In reply to this post by Pat Clark
On 08/05/15 01:29, Pat Clark wrote:
> You can always add more folders as needed, but remember that if you move
> media from one folder to another, you must alter the path for that
> individual file in Gramps itself.

Set a media directory. This is done in the preferences with the "Base
path for relative media paths" entry in the "General" tab. Use relative
media paths and store all your media files under the media directory.

When a media file is added to Gramps a checksum is generated which
identifies the file. The third-party Media Verify tool can be used to
automatically update media objects for moved or renamed files. This
allows you to use a file manager of your choice to mange your media files.

Nick.


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Re: Organizing Media Files

ACProctor
In reply to this post by DS Blank

Any city or national archive that holds historical collections: published or unpublished, manuscript, typescript, and even digital. When they acquire new material ('archival accession') then it has to be catalogued. This includes its internal structure as well as where it fits into to their overall holdings, but it is still (or should be) kept as an integral collection.
 
One complication that genealogists have over archivists is that they also 'assimilate' the material, and weave it into their trees, timelines, and conclusions. This does not mean that any collection has to be divided up, but those media references (from say a tree to related images or documents) do not really have a correspondence in archival processes. Theirs is more objective, organising what's there -- allowing it to be found by name, place, & date -- but it wouldn't be analysed and correlated with other collections.
 
    Tony
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, May 08, 2015 2:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] Organizing Media Files

On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 8:40 AM, Tony Proctor <[hidden email]> wrote:
I think everyone's collections would benefit from a provenance-based hierarchical organisation Doug.

Maybe... I guess this is an empirical question, and maybe some users can comment. What percentage of one's media files have a provenance relationship? Is that relationship flat (all pages from a single source), or hierarchical?
 
However, most people could not give up direct access to the images using the native O/S tools, such as when simply browsing file-system folders. DearMYRTLE, in one of her regular Monday Hangout-On-Air sessions, commented that her grandchildren would simply browse the files rather than go through the interface of an organising product.

Gramps developers wisely decided long ago to let the file system do what it does best. But it was also thought initially that Gramps should do nothing to help that management. 
 
 
It's a difficult problem. In principle, allowing the software to show you the media relevant to a family, or to a place, or part of a timeline, etc., would be much richer than just separate collections by surname.
 
Like Gramps, STEMMA can reference media files no matter where they are. If my own software always took care of any copying, sharing, or backups, then it could easily produce a list of the relevant media files. However, I now group my different provenance-based folders under a single "media root", just for the ease of using third-party software for copying and backups.

Me too. I use ~/.gramps/media because ~/.gramps is important to backup. (I had missed that important point when I first started using Gramps. Ouch.)

 
We could all learn a lot from how archives handle such things.

What kind of archives are you thinking?

-Doug 
 
    Tony
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, May 08, 2015 1:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] Organizing Media Files

On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 3:53 AM, Tony Proctor <[hidden email]> wrote:
Sorting files independently of the organising software is the big headache
here. Ideally, that software (e.g. Gramps) should give you ample tools to
manipulate, browse, sort, etc., your media without having to know where they
physically are.

I agree. I only have a few hundred media items, but I keep them all in one folder (~/.gramps/media).  The idea that Gramps allows the image to be anywhere on the filesystem is very flexible, but a nightmare for making sure you have complete backups, or moving the collection to a different computer.

Gramps isn't yet a very good media organizer, but I think we can do a few small, simple things to make it better.

For example, if you drop a bunch of media files into a folder, are you certain that they are all linked to something in Gramps? You can use Tools -> Media Manager -> select "add images not included in database" to make sure that they are.

Currently it works by looking at folders that are used already. If you have a new folder, first add one image to Gramps from that folder, and then run the tool. Of course, you'll need to next associate the images with the right items.

I think the gramps developers agreed a while back that we would allow users to specify a special folder on which to do some media management-type functions. For example, you could add an image to *Gramps*, and it will put it in the right place, rather than having to add it to the filesystem first. I hope to help develop ideas like that.
 

A really smart way to organise your media is via their provenance (see
http://parallax-viewpoint.blogspot.com/2015/01/hierarchical-sources.html),
but few people outside of archives venture there.

Interesting idea... I wonder how much of people's media collections would benefit from being seen as such a hierarchy? 

-Doug
 

    Tony Proctor

----- Original Message -----
From: "Garry Seeley" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, May 08, 2015 6:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] Organizing Media Files


>I have only recently started my genealogy journey and I have decided to
> save images in folders named 'SURNAME' within a 'Gramps Media' folder. I
> then name the files eg.
> Surname-Firstname-Birth-Certificate-Date.jpg
> Surname-Firstname-Marriage-Certificate-Date.jpg (where Surname is the
> name of the husband)
> I found I had to add the date as there seems to have been a shortage of
> names at times in history :-) and a name will be recycled through
> generations.
>
> This method allows me to sort the files by name in my file manager and
> easily see all images I have associated with a person.
>
> I hesitated when it came to images associated with a married woman but I
> made the call to store them under the name indicated in the document or
> image, or her name at that time of her life. So an unmarried females
> images would be stored under her maiden name until she married but
> images relating to her after (and including) her marriage would be
> stored under her new surname, and likewise if she married again. This is
> much the same as I do with my paper files where I file an unmarried
> persons details in their parents family file and once/if they marry I
> create a new family file with their details included from that point in
> time on.
>
> So, this is how I do things. It might sound logical or it might be utter
> nonsense I don't know.
>
> Cheers
> Garry
>
> On 08/05/15 08:29, Pat Clark wrote:
>> On 08/05/15 09:21, Peter wrote:
>>> I have hundreds of media files that I have accumulated over the years
>>> and I have yet to incorporate them into Gramps. Now that I've finally
>>> upgraded (smoothly and comfortably) to v.4.1.3 (on Ubuntu), I feel
>>> that I should finally tackle this.
>>>
>>> I know Enno has provided some helpful insight in the past (regarding
>>> relative and absolute paths), but for someone starting from scratch,
>>> what is any advice regarding best practices for organization of Gramps
>>> media files?
>>>
>>> I'm imagining one large folder called GrampsMedia and within that,
>>> folders for Census Records, Birth Certificates, Marriage Certificates,
>>> Death Certificates, etc. Or, should Birth / Marriage / Death all be in
>>> one folder? What about photos of individuals and places -- a separate
>>> folder for each or one large "Photos" folder?
>>>
>>> Also, what naming conventions do people use for organizing the files
>>> within the folders? LastName_FirstName_2015-05-07_Birth.jpg ?
>>>
>>> I'm very curious as to what others do, and what they might do
>>> differently if they had to start from scratch again.
>>>
>>> Many thanks,
>>>
>>> Peter
>>>
>> I think the best thing is to sit down and sketch out a folder hierarchy
>> before you start moving things around.
>>
>> I have a folder called 'GrampsPics' containing folders such as
>> 'Registers' which contains BMD certs etc in their appropriate (for me)
>> folders Birth, Baptism, Marriage, Banns, Death, Burial. Some of these in
>> turn have subfolders for various family branches.
>> Other main folders are 'War', 'Places', 'Portraits' and so on. It's up
>> to you to set it up to suit your research.
>>
>> You can always add more folders as needed, but remember that if you move
>> media from one folder to another, you must alter the path for that
>> individual file in Gramps itself.
>>
>> Hope I've given you some ideas.
>>
>> Pat
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud
>> Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications
>> Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights
>> Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight.
>> http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gramps-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
>>
>
>
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Re: Organizing Media Files

Alain AUPEIX
In reply to this post by DS Blank
Le 08. 05. 15 14:22, Doug Blank a écrit :
For example, you could add an image to *Gramps*, and it will put it in the right place, rather than having to add it to the filesystem first.
Humm,

When receiving images by mail, we can't take it directly with Gramps and must save it before, so why not save it directly une the folder Gramps will use ? Same with hardcopies we made of registries.

So, it could be nice for images we already have on our computer, and with the choice of copying or moving it. But, I think the most cases are the first one, and it's not a really needed improvment to Gramps.

I should prefer a real tool to migrate from 3.4.x to 4.x.x concerning places ... For now, my only test was exporting to gedcom, and importing then from it, and it's not really good. But it's not the purpose of this thread ...

A+
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Alain Aupeix
http://jujuland.pagesperso-orange.fr/
http://pissobi-lacassagne.pagesperso-orange.fr/

U.buntu 12.04 | G.ramps 3.4.8-1 | H.arbour 3.2.0dev (2015-05-07 11:27) | HbIDE (Rev.316) | Five.Linux (r143) | Hw.Gui (2396)

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Re: Organizing Media Files

ACProctor
I can send a STEMMA "bundle" to someone else, which would include the XML defining the people, events, places, etc., plus related media files. That bundle could be unzipped by the STEMMA software and automatically organised on the recipient's computer.
 
Isn't there a similar case in Gramps when a collection of items is shared with someone else?
 
    Tony
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, May 08, 2015 2:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] Organizing Media Files

Le 08. 05. 15 14:22, Doug Blank a écrit :
For example, you could add an image to *Gramps*, and it will put it in the right place, rather than having to add it to the filesystem first.
Humm,

When receiving images by mail, we can't take it directly with Gramps and must save it before, so why not save it directly une the folder Gramps will use ? Same with hardcopies we made of registries.

So, it could be nice for images we already have on our computer, and with the choice of copying or moving it. But, I think the most cases are the first one, and it's not a really needed improvment to Gramps.

I should prefer a real tool to migrate from 3.4.x to 4.x.x concerning places ... For now, my only test was exporting to gedcom, and importing then from it, and it's not really good. But it's not the purpose of this thread ...

A+
--

Alain Aupeix
http://jujuland.pagesperso-orange.fr/
http://pissobi-lacassagne.pagesperso-orange.fr/

U.buntu 12.04 | G.ramps 3.4.8-1 | H.arbour 3.2.0dev (2015-05-07 11:27) | HbIDE (Rev.316) | Five.Linux (r143) | Hw.Gui (2396)

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Re: Organizing Media Files

Nick Hall
On 08/05/15 15:04, Tony Proctor wrote:
I can send a STEMMA "bundle" to someone else, which would include the XML defining the people, events, places, etc., plus related media files. That bundle could be unzipped by the STEMMA software and automatically organised on the recipient's computer.
 
Isn't there a similar case in Gramps when a collection of items is shared with someone else?

Yes.  The Gramps XML Package format will also include the media files.


Nick.


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Re: Organizing Media Files

Craig Treleaven
In reply to this post by DS Blank
At 9:19 AM -0400 5/8/15, Doug Blank wrote:
>On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 8:40 AM, Tony Proctor
><<mailto:[hidden email]>[hidden email]> wrote:
>I think everyone's collections would benefit from a provenance-based
>hierarchical organisation Doug.
>
>Maybe... I guess this is an empirical question, and maybe some users
>can comment. What percentage of one's media files have a provenance
>relationship? Is that relationship flat (all pages from a single
>source), or hierarchical?

To me, provenance is more clearly communicated by the
source>repository chain and/or research notes.  My media files are
split into directories for People, Places and Other.  I tend to
duplicate much of the metadata between Gramps and the the media file
itself.  For example, I embed names, dates, location, etc into a jpeg
image via IPTC fields and record the same info in Gramps.  That way
if an image gets separated, someone has a better chance to still
determine the who/what/where.

Craig

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Re: Organizing Media Files

Peter (chamdo4ever)
In reply to this post by DS Blank
Thank you everyone, for your generous replies to my query.

All replies were helpful -- I found Alain's and Tony's particularly so.

Tony's viewpoint expressed on his own excellent blogpost was
especially insightful and much food for thought.

On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 10:37 AM, Craig Treleaven <[hidden email]> wrote:
> To me, provenance is more clearly communicated by the
> source>repository chain and/or research notes.

This is also a very good point.

Alain's setup appears to be the closest towards lending itself to
striking a balance to that end.

My inclination would be to setup my "Gramps_Media" folder in a manner
similar to Alain's, but of course pay strict attention to citing the
media objects to the correct sources (and hence repositories) within
Gramps. Not quite as ideal as Tony's approach, but the information on
provenance is all there, and very accessible in Gramps, if not from
within the OS.

At the same time, the OS's file structure would be very browsable if
you're seeking a specific item and don't know it's precise provenance.
The downside of course is that the provenance information is lacking
if you are strictly browsing in the OS.... but how often do I expect
to just browse the OS? Only when emailing or printing an item I would
imagine. Most often, I would expect to just find whatever I'm looking
for within Gramps.

An option which is perhaps overkill might be to keep items in two
locations in the OS: A Gramps_Media folder and a Repositories folder,
organized by provenance. The individual files would have the same name
-- this would cover all the bases but as I said, likely overkill.

Many thanks again for the replies.

Peter

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Re: Organizing Media Files

enno
Peter,
> An option which is perhaps overkill might be to keep items in two
> locations in the OS: A Gramps_Media folder and a Repositories folder,
> organized by provenance. The individual files would have the same name
> -- this would cover all the bases but as I said, likely overkill.
I kept out of this, because I saw many replies that look more organized
than I can do myself, but I want to react here anyway.

What I like to add is that you don't really need a Gramps_Media folder.
Gramps doesn't care where media are, as long as they can be found, and I
don't have one. My own media are scattered among all sorts of folders
inside Afbeeldingen (pictures) and Documenten (documents), and Gramps
knows where they are, even though I don't have a default media path. My
paths are all relative, meaning that they start with Afbeeldingen or
Documenten, and with an empty media path, Gramps simply appends the
relative media paths to my home folder, and finds everything.

I don't make backups of my .gramps folder, but I do sync Afbeeldingen,
Documenten, and some others with an external drive and OneDrive, and I
let Gramps make backups without media, which I then send to my Dropbox
folder. Together they form a complete backup, and because the .gramps
backups are small, I can keep dozens of those on Dropbox, and always go
back when I mess up my database. A backup of the .gramps folder won't
work for that, because if you mess up, you'll backup the mess too.

When you organize files in some way, like in a Repositories folder
organized by provenance, you do that, because you want your files
organized that way, i.e. bcause it works for you. Gramps doesn't care,
and when you let Gramps make a backup with media, it will find them
wherever they are.

So, yes, it's definitely overkill.

cheers,

Enno


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Re: Organizing Media Files

Alain AUPEIX
Le 09. 05. 15 15:41, Enno Borgsteede a écrit :
What I like to add is that you don't really need a Gramps_Media folder. 
Gramps doesn't care where media are, as long as they can be found, and I 
don't have one. My own media are scattered among all sorts of folders 
inside Afbeeldingen (pictures) and Documenten (documents), and Gramps 
knows where they are, even though I don't have a default media path. My 
paths are all relative, meaning that they start with Afbeeldingen or 
Documenten, and with an empty media path, Gramps simply appends the 
relative media paths to my home folder, and finds everything.
Yes it's not needed, and Gramps can found it without problem.

But having a gramps-media folder and subfolders like I describes has a obvious advantage.

If you want to add an image, you have to browse you hard-disk to first find the folder, and then to find the image.

With a gramps-media set as default folder, I have just to choose the subfolder (birth, death, ...) two clicks on the title of the column 'Modified', and I see the last added or modified images.
Really easier and faster ... and elsewhere, using the file manager, for maintenance purpose (for example), is also faster and easier ...

A+

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Alain Aupeix
http://jujuland.pagesperso-orange.fr/
http://pissobi-lacassagne.pagesperso-orange.fr/

U.buntu 12.04 | G.ramps 3.4.8-1 | H.arbour 3.2.0dev (2015-05-07 11:27) | HbIDE (Rev.316) | Five.Linux (r143) | Hw.Gui (2396)

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