Place Cleanup Gramplet

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Place Cleanup Gramplet

prculley
This is to announce a new addon for Gramps 5.0.0.  The Place Cleanup Gramplet is designed to replace the sadly out of date Place Completion tool, and can also provide the functions of the GeneratePlace tool which was not widely distributed.

It serves several functions:
  1. Assist in converting Places that come from Gedcom files or other sources that do not have the Hierarchy (enclosed by) that Gramps provides.
  2. Adding the Latitude/Longitude to Places, so they can be shown on the Gramps maps.
  3. Merging places when they are similarly named (can easily happen when importing from other sources).
The Gramplet utilizes the GeoNames database available on the Web http://www.geonames.org/ for its data source, but is tightly integrated so the user need not interact with the web site (other than to get a user ID).

A description of the tool and instructions on how to use it are available at

Paul C.



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Re: Place Cleanup Gramplet

Nick Hall
On 01/10/2018 16:24, Paul Culley wrote:
This is to announce a new addon for Gramps 5.0.0.  The Place Cleanup Gramplet is designed to replace the sadly out of date Place Completion tool, and can also provide the functions of the GeneratePlace tool which was not widely distributed.

It serves several functions:
  1. Assist in converting Places that come from Gedcom files or other sources that do not have the Hierarchy (enclosed by) that Gramps provides.
  2. Adding the Latitude/Longitude to Places, so they can be shown on the Gramps maps.
  3. Merging places when they are similarly named (can easily happen when importing from other sources).
The Gramplet utilizes the GeoNames database available on the Web http://www.geonames.org/ for its data source, but is tightly integrated so the user need not interact with the web site (other than to get a user ID).

A description of the tool and instructions on how to use it are available at

Thanks Paul.  I look forward to using this.

The documentation looks very comprehensive.

Regards,


Nick.




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Re: Place Cleanup Gramplet

Stephen Adams
In reply to this post by prculley
Fantastic Paul, I look forward to exploring this gramplet!

On Mon, Oct 1, 2018 at 11:27 AM Paul Culley <[hidden email]> wrote:
This is to announce a new addon for Gramps 5.0.0.  The Place Cleanup Gramplet is designed to replace the sadly out of date Place Completion tool, and can also provide the functions of the GeneratePlace tool which was not widely distributed.

It serves several functions:
  1. Assist in converting Places that come from Gedcom files or other sources that do not have the Hierarchy (enclosed by) that Gramps provides.
  2. Adding the Latitude/Longitude to Places, so they can be shown on the Gramps maps.
  3. Merging places when they are similarly named (can easily happen when importing from other sources).
The Gramplet utilizes the GeoNames database available on the Web http://www.geonames.org/ for its data source, but is tightly integrated so the user need not interact with the web site (other than to get a user ID).

A description of the tool and instructions on how to use it are available at

Paul C.

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Re: Place Cleanup Gramplet

GRAMPS - User mailing list
In reply to this post by prculley



Hi Paul

Thought I would have a look at the geonames website before installing
the gramplet as I know GetGov is more or less useless for the UK
I have 2 points it seems mainly to rely on post codes which in relative
terms are fairly modern invention and secondly if I choose for example
Manchester UK you get a list of all the post codes with a link like
53.481/-2.237 not sure what this is meant to represent and certainly the
link does not work obviously a work in progress that might be useful in
the future won't be installing just yet

Regards
Phil
MLFHS 12583
Dumfries
On 01/10/2018 16:24, Paul Culley wrote:

> This is to announce a new addon for Gramps 5.0.0.  The Place Cleanup
> Gramplet is designed to replace the sadly out of date Place Completion
> tool, and can also provide the functions of the GeneratePlace tool which
> was not widely distributed.
>
> It serves several functions:
>
>     1. Assist in converting Places that come from Gedcom files or other
>     sources that do not have the Hierarchy (enclosed by) that Gramps provides.
>     2. Adding the Latitude/Longitude to Places, so they can be shown on the
>     Gramps maps.
>     3. Merging places when they are similarly named (can easily happen when
>     importing from other sources).
>
> The Gramplet utilizes the GeoNames database available on the Web
> http://www.geonames.org/ for its data source, but is tightly integrated so
> the user need not interact with the web site (other than to get a user ID).
>
> A description of the tool and instructions on how to use it are available at
> https://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php/Addon:PlaceCleanupGramplet
>
> Paul C.
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
> https://gramps-project.org
>


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Re: Place Cleanup Gramplet

Brad Rogers
On Mon, 1 Oct 2018 21:28:44 +0100
phil wharram via Gramps-users <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello phil,

>53.481/-2.237 not sure what this is meant to represent

Lat/Long

--
 Regards  _
         / )           "The blindingly obvious is
        / _)rad        never immediately apparent"
Cocaine, heroin, I never use speed, I never put the needle in
Keep it Clean - The Vibrators


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Re: Place Cleanup Gramplet

sturdy
In reply to this post by prculley
Darn, thought I sent my previous to the list:

Retrans:
Great gramplet; useful and well integrated...thanks.

I think I see a caveat unless I am doing something wrong. A couple of
years ago I reported a similar issue. In ver 5.0 I tried to reorder
Gramps Ids with the tool and it actually returned the changed IDs to the
default Pnnnnnn format. The intermediate dialog that asks to apply your
response to the following questions only seems to work for the record
currently selected and not following records. Presumably the initial
Reorder Gramps IDs dialog will not change Place objects when it is
deselected. This is still risky and I would prefer a selector in
Preferences to preclude Place IDs. HTH

Sturdy2




On 10/01/2018 11:24 AM, Paul Culley wrote:

> This is to announce a new addon for Gramps 5.0.0.  The Place Cleanup
> Gramplet is designed to replace the sadly out of date Place Completion
> tool, and can also provide the functions of the GeneratePlace tool
> which was not widely distributed.
>
> It serves several functions:
>
>  1. Assist in converting Places that come from Gedcom files or other
>     sources that do not have the Hierarchy (enclosed by) that Gramps
>     provides.
>  2. Adding the Latitude/Longitude to Places, so they can be shown on
>     the Gramps maps.
>  3. Merging places when they are similarly named (can easily happen
>     when importing from other sources).
>
> The Gramplet utilizes the GeoNames database available on the Web
> http://www.geonames.org/ for its data source, but is tightly
> integrated so the user need not interact with the web site (other than
> to get a user ID).
>
> A description of the tool and instructions on how to use it are
> available at
> https://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php/Addon:PlaceCleanupGramplet
>
> Paul C.
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
> https://gramps-project.org



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Re: Place Cleanup Gramplet

GRAMPS - User mailing list
In reply to this post by Brad Rogers



Hi Brad

Thanks had sort of guessed that my strange humour coming out how can you
represent geographical areas with single point Latitude and Longitude
especially using the same point Piccadily Gardens in this case to cover
4 postal codes and then make that into a link to nothing.
Not decrying the effort that has been put into either the site or the
gramplet just saying the site needs far more work before I use it.
GENUKI portal far more useful as a resource for this type of information


Regards
Phil
MLFHS 12583
Dumfries
On 01/10/2018 21:43, Brad Rogers wrote:

> On Mon, 1 Oct 2018 21:28:44 +0100
> phil wharram via Gramps-users <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hello phil,
>
>> 53.481/-2.237 not sure what this is meant to represent
>
> Lat/Long
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
> https://gramps-project.org
>


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Re: Place Cleanup Gramplet

Brad Rogers
On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 09:04:45 +0100
phil wharram via Gramps-users <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello phil,

>Thanks had sort of guessed that my strange humour coming out how can

I wasn't sure whether you were joking or not.  Others may have been
confused by it though.  Easiest option was simply to write a quick
explanation.

>you represent geographical areas with single point Latitude and

IKWYM.  Post Codes are pressed into service in the most useless manners
possible in satnavs, for example.  Can't enter my street address in
*any* sat nav I know of, so you need to rely on the code.  Takes ppl to
a point 1/2 a mile from my house.  When they get there, they *always*
'phone to ask "Where are you?"  A far better option is to use
'what3words' (app or web site) which can pinpoint a location to
approximately a 1 metre square.  Sadly, too few people are aware of it.

I don't add lat/long to many of the places I have in Gramps for the
reason you state;  "London", "Sheffield", "Manchester", etc. are simply
far too large to locate as a point.  Most streets don't get coordinates
either, for the same reason.  Not the fault of Gramps, of course.

--
 Regards  _
         / )           "The blindingly obvious is
        / _)rad        never immediately apparent"
We can dance like Iggy Pop
Coffee Shop - Red Hot Chili Peppers


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Re: Place Cleanup Gramplet

paul womack
Brad Rogers wrote:
> On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 09:04:45 +0100

>
> I don't add lat/long to many of the places I have in Gramps for the
> reason you state;  "London", "Sheffield", "Manchester", etc. are simply
> far too large to locate as a point.  Most streets don't get coordinates
> either, for the same reason.  Not the fault of Gramps, of course.

I have previously suggested that Gramps Places have a radius
property, which whilst not a complete solution (*) is easy to implement,
and practically useful.

  BugBear

(* streets in particular are rarely circular...)



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Re: Place Cleanup Gramplet

Brad Rogers
On Tue, 02 Oct 2018 10:56:09 +0100
paul womack <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello paul,

>(* streets in particular are rarely circular...)

I know of a few that are (more or less) rectangular.

Would that help?   :-)

--
 Regards  _
         / )           "The blindingly obvious is
        / _)rad        never immediately apparent"
My body's an oasis to drink from as you please
Mirage - Siouxsie & The Banshees


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Re: Place Cleanup Gramplet

Peter Merchant
On 02/10/18 11:06, Brad Rogers wrote:
> On Tue, 02 Oct 2018 10:56:09 +0100
> paul womack <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hello paul,
>
>> (* streets in particular are rarely circular...)
> I know of a few that are (more or less) rectangular.
>
> Would that help?   :-)
Cutlers Place, Colehill, Wimborne Dorset is shaped like a figure 6 that
doesn't quite join up. Almost a spiral.
PM


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Re: Place Cleanup Gramplet

enno
In reply to this post by paul womack
Op 02-10-18 om 11:56 schreef paul womack:
> I have previously suggested that Gramps Places have a radius
> property, which whilst not a complete solution (*) is easy to implement,
> and practically useful.
>
>  BugBear
>
> (* streets in particular are rarely circular...)
But some are, see Kattenbroek, Amersfoort:

https://goo.gl/maps/HN6DPteYNSr

Note that the ring has 3 segments, named Africa, America, and Asia.

Regards,

Enno



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Re: Place Cleanup Gramplet

Nick Hall
On 02/10/2018 11:44, Enno Borgsteede wrote:
Op 02-10-18 om 11:56 schreef paul womack:
I have previously suggested that Gramps Places have a radius
property, which whilst not a complete solution (*) is easy to implement,
and practically useful.

 BugBear

(* streets in particular are rarely circular...)
But some are, see Kattenbroek, Amersfoort:

https://goo.gl/maps/HN6DPteYNSr

Note that the ring has 3 segments, named Africa, America, and Asia.

Regards,

Enno

Another well known example:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/The+Circus,+Bath

Or perhaps even better:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/The+Circus,+Eastbourne+BN23+6LG


Nick.




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Re: Place Cleanup Gramplet

GRAMPS - User mailing list
In reply to this post by paul womack



Hi Paul

To date I only put in churches and cemeteries have tried houses when
they can be found on Google maps (other mapping tools are available)
But there is a real difficulty with a lot of the things we call place
So geonames has as "country" the United Kingdom which we all know is not
a real country it is a political/constitutional construct similar to the EU.
So for the UK there are 4 main countries, England, Scotland, Wales and
Northern Ireland,
So for Scotland the Admin 1 should be UK, Admin 2, should be Scottish
Parliament and Admin 3 County/Metropolitan Councils
There are also other places for example in the UK you have Registration
Districts and Sub Districts, Parliamentary Constituencies, Census
Districts, Parishes, Counties etc none of which  are point sources and
all have fluid boundaries.
I think we all have to use Gramps as best suits us and thank you all
keeping this thread so amusing

Regards
Phil
MLFHS 12583
Dumfries
On 02/10/2018 10:56, paul womack wrote:

> Brad Rogers wrote:
>> On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 09:04:45 +0100
>
>>
>> I don't add lat/long to many of the places I have in Gramps for the
>> reason you state;  "London", "Sheffield", "Manchester", etc. are simply
>> far too large to locate as a point.  Most streets don't get coordinates
>> either, for the same reason.  Not the fault of Gramps, of course.
>
> I have previously suggested that Gramps Places have a radius
> property, which whilst not a complete solution (*) is easy to implement,
> and practically useful.
>
>   BugBear
>
> (* streets in particular are rarely circular...)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
> https://gramps-project.org
>


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Re: Place Cleanup Gramplet

Brad Rogers
On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 12:42:16 +0100
phil wharram via Gramps-users <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello phil,

>To date I only put in churches and cemeteries have tried houses when

Likewise.  Although cemeteries can stretch the point a bit.  Especially
the larger ones.  Other named buildings (* Villa[s], * Terrace, etc.) if
they can be identified in a modern street view, too.  Some of those
buildings still have the name visible on a stone somewhere.

As many of my lot were farmers and farm labourers, I denote farms too.
Again, if they can be located on a map.

>I think we all have to use Gramps as best suits us and thank you all

True.  One very adaptable tool.

>keeping this thread so amusing

Indeed.

--
 Regards  _
         / )           "The blindingly obvious is
        / _)rad        never immediately apparent"
No you can't hop into my shower
Leave Me Alone (I'm Lonely) - P!nk


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Re: Place Cleanup Gramplet

GRAMPS - User mailing list
In reply to this post by prculley
So that's it! I've asked people around to the house but they never show up. It MUST be because of those darn non-circular streets! ... Waitaminute, I'm still getting circulars, in the mailbox... Darn, darn, darn... another theory bites the dust.

Let's not become so bogged down in refinements that we become too paralyzed to use a tool.

Latitude/Longitude coordinates can't be perfect.

Besides the location being described being in motion (continent drift, earthquakes, global axis wobble, planetary bulge, orbital variation, global/galactic gravitational deformation, etc), the measurement system itself is continually evolving. Some public coordinate datasets have been skewed and edited intentionally for security and commercial reasons. (Services pay more for more accuracy and data is invariably skewed as a watermarking method to protect intellectual property and for intelligence gathering.)  

When you enter a longitude/latitude pair, you could be adding surveyed value off a 1600s map, a flat map transformed coordinate, or any of a dozen shifting GPS satellite coordinate 'standards'. Without a definition of the source of the location pair, you could argue that ANY coordinate pair is meaningless.

As a fundamental assumption, objects with physical dimension don't exist in a point.  They are generally in a bounded (2D, 3D, 4D) volume. Even after allowing that that a Lat/Long is a single point descriptor of an area/volume approximation, you could argue what GPS point best describes a church or cemetery.  Is it the alter, the front door, the driveway, the center of the property line along the main road? If it is a Point of Interest coordinate for driving, has that point been offset to indicate which lane of travel is closest to the POI? Is a radius or a conic section more appropriate approximation? A conic section would also define a point of view.
Et cetera ad nauseam.

Let's not become so mired in detail that you don't use all the added value of the Gramps maps.

Voltaire, the French writer, said, “The best is the enemy of the good.” Confucius said, “Better a diamond with a flaw than a pebble without.”

In this case, perfection is the enemy of progress.

--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 10/2/18, phil wharram via Gramps-users <[hidden email]> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] Place Cleanup Gramplet
 To: "paul womack" <[hidden email]>, "Gramps ML" <[hidden email]>
 Date: Tuesday, October 2, 2018, 6:42 AM
 
 Hi Paul
 
 To date I only put in churches and cemeteries have tried houses when  they can be found on Google maps (other mapping tools are available)
 But there is a real difficulty with a lot of the things we call place
 So geonames has as "country" the United Kingdom which we all know is not  a real country it is a political/constitutional construct similar to the EU.
 So for the UK there are 4 main countries, England, Scotland, Wales and  Northern Ireland,
 So for Scotland the Admin 1 should be UK, Admin 2, should be Scottish  Parliament and Admin 3 County/Metropolitan Councils

 There are also other places for example in the UK you have Registration  Districts and Sub Districts, Parliamentary Constituencies, Census  Districts, Parishes, Counties etc none of which  are point sources and  all have fluid boundaries. I think we all have to use Gramps as best suits us and thank you all  keeping this thread so amusing
 
 Regards
 Phil
 MLFHS 12583
 Dumfries
 On 02/10/2018 10:56,
 paul womack wrote:
 > Brad Rogers wrote:
 >> On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 09:04:45 +0100
 >
 >>
 >> I don't add lat/long to many of the places I have in Gramps for the
 >> reason you state;  "London", "Sheffield", "Manchester", etc. are simply
 >> far too large to locate as a point.  Most streets don't get coordinates
 >> either, for the same reason.  Not the fault of Gramps, of course.
 >
 > I have previously suggested that Gramps Places have a radius
 > property, which whilst not a complete solution (*) is easy to implement,
 > and practically useful.
 >
 >   BugBear
 >
 > (* streets in particular are rarely circular...)
 


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Re: Place Cleanup Gramplet

paul womack
[hidden email] wrote:
> So that's it! I've asked people around to the house but they never show up. It MUST be because of those darn non-circular streets! ... Waitaminute, I'm still getting circulars, in the mailbox... Darn, darn, darn... another theory bites the dust.
>
> Let's not become so bogged down in refinements that we become too paralyzed to use a tool.
>
> Latitude/Longitude coordinates can't be perfect.

Agreed - I have assigned a lat/long POINT to both France and England.

When using the geography on a big enough scale, the fact that a Person
has Events in both England and France shows nicely.

Job. Done.

  BugBear


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Re: Place Cleanup Gramplet

Peter Merchant
In reply to this post by GRAMPS - User mailing list

> Voltaire, the French writer, said, “The best is the enemy of the good.” Confucius said, “Better a diamond with a flaw than a pebble without.”
>
And as an Engineer, we always said "good enough for government work"
PM.

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Re: Place Cleanup Gramplet

sturdy
In reply to this post by sturdy

Paul,

Sorry if I wasn't clear. First, let me say I really like the Place Cleanup gramplet. I used it for several hours yesterday and only have 10,000 more places to visit. No problems noted.

The issue is not with the Place Cleanup gramplet but actually with Tools > Family Tree Processing > Reorder Gramps IDs. If the PC gramplet is used (or I suppose any other change to Place IDs, in my experience the Reorder Gramps IDs tool will return the Place IDs to the set preference (I use P%06d for all).

My comment was meant to be a caution to others to be aware that the GeoNames IDs may be lost if the Reorder Gramps IDs tool is used. The latter tool now has a dialog that allows deselection of Object IDs NOT to be reordered (not tested). The issue I see is that at some point I will forget to deselect Places. Thus I would prefer to have the ability to deselect Places (and others) in Preferences where it would be permanent and not subject to my untimely error.

The following comment pertains to the Reorder Gramps IDs tool. To be clear, I only tested Place IDs

The intermediate dialog that asks to apply your
response to the following questions only seems to work for the record
currently selected and not following records.

If you elect to have your selection apply to all future occurrences, it actually only applies to the current record. My experience is that other records are returned to P%06d.

If any of this should be a bug or feature request, I'd be happy to submit.

Again, Place Cleanup and the accompanying wiki doc is great and much appreciated...I anticipate many happy hours. Thanks.

My best,
Sturdy2




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Re: Place Cleanup Gramplet

Dave Scheipers
Hi Sturdy

In 5.0, the Reorder Gramps ID tool has been totally reworked allowing
the user to choose which and how the various areas of the gramps
database get changed. So you can deselect the Place ID's and leave
them as is.

Make sure you read the help wiki before actually Reordering the
numbers as opposed to Reformatting the numbers.

Dave
On Tue, Oct 2, 2018 at 12:33 PM [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Paul,
>
> Sorry if I wasn't clear. First, let me say I really like the Place Cleanup gramplet. I used it for several hours yesterday and only have 10,000 more places to visit. No problems noted.
>
> The issue is not with the Place Cleanup gramplet but actually with Tools > Family Tree Processing > Reorder Gramps IDs. If the PC gramplet is used (or I suppose any other change to Place IDs, in my experience the Reorder Gramps IDs tool will return the Place IDs to the set preference (I use P%06d for all).
>
> My comment was meant to be a caution to others to be aware that the GeoNames IDs may be lost if the Reorder Gramps IDs tool is used. The latter tool now has a dialog that allows deselection of Object IDs NOT to be reordered (not tested). The issue I see is that at some point I will forget to deselect Places. Thus I would prefer to have the ability to deselect Places (and others) in Preferences where it would be permanent and not subject to my untimely error.
>
> The following comment pertains to the Reorder Gramps IDs tool. To be clear, I only tested Place IDs
>>
>> The intermediate dialog that asks to apply your
>> response to the following questions only seems to work for the record
>> currently selected and not following records.
>
> If you elect to have your selection apply to all future occurrences, it actually only applies to the current record. My experience is that other records are returned to P%06d.
>
> If any of this should be a bug or feature request, I'd be happy to submit.
>
> Again, Place Cleanup and the accompanying wiki doc is great and much appreciated...I anticipate many happy hours. Thanks.
>
> My best,
> Sturdy2
>
>
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